When is next Saturday?

mickrock · 25-05-2016 08:06PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

My own experience in noticing how people from different parts of the country speak, and knowledge of how people understand vocabulary.

Because you seem so certain of your position I thought you would have had academic studies to back you up.

Your own experience is going to be very limited.

The King of Moo · 25-05-2016 08:12PM

mickrock wrote: »

Because you seem so certain of your position I thought you would have had academic studies to back you up.

Your own experience is going to be very limited.

Yeah, I actually haven't got round to that academic survey yet, shame on me.

Look, the standard usage of "next Saturday" among English speakers around the world is to mean "Saturday of next week," and most people here use it that way.

I understand why people confuse "this Saturday" and "next Saturday" but it's not correct and it's not more common.

I'll get off this merry-go-round now.

mickrock · 25-05-2016 08:21PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Look, the standard usage of "next Saturday" among English speakers around the world is to mean "Saturday of next week," and most people here use it that way.

I understand why people confuse "this Saturday" and "next Saturday" but it's not correct and it's not more common.

You've no evidence then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

rubadub · 25-05-2016 09:56PM

galljga1 wrote: »

Open question: does common usage make a phrase correct?

It makes it understandable. Saying I weigh 100 kilograms is technically incorrect, but widely used and understood by all -kilograms are units of mass, you weigh in newtons.

I am not sure if there would be an scientific like law about language such as this, many are saying things like "correct" as though there is a definite law/rule to back them up.

mickrock wrote: »

You've no evidence then?

indeed, and even gave the classic cop out "I'm out of here" line at the end.

Jan Laco · 25-05-2016 10:03PM

So by the logic of next Saturday being the 6th June, if someone asks me at a bus stop where the next bus is going.....I will refer to the bus that will arrive 2nd at the bus stop from that point in time?

Maximus Alexander · 25-05-2016 10:05PM

Yes, language is always strictly logical.

FunLover18 · 25-05-2016 10:32PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yes, language is always strictly logical.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ltBhl4BoHaMM/giphy.gif

Maireadio · 25-05-2016 10:40PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'll get off this merry-go-round now.

Well, that's convenient timing.

"Can you back up what you're saying?"

"Er, um, no. In an entirely unrelated move, I'm done posting in this thread."

Saipanne · 25-05-2016 10:42PM

I'm looking forward to my next birthday and by my next birthday I mean 2 years time.

galljga1 · 25-05-2016 10:48PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Yeah, I actually haven't got round to that academic survey yet, shame on me.

Look, the standard usage of "next Saturday" among English speakers around the world is to mean "Saturday of next week," and most people here use it that way.

I understand why people confuse "this Saturday" and "next Saturday" but it's not correct and it's not more common.

I'll get off this merry-go-round now.

@day than I have but that is not what I have encountered. What you are stating is your opinion, not "correct".
I can throw in "correct", "standard usage", "among English speakers around the world" "most people here use it that way". To be honest, that all means nothing. Next is still "coming immediately after the time of writing or speaking". If persons use it incorrectly, so be it.

The King of Moo · 25-05-2016 11:29PM

F*ck me...

Can you all explain why the present perfect simple conveys a sense of connection between the present and the past? What is it about the combination of to have as an auxiliary verb and a past participle that creates that effect?

Why aren't "thank" and "thunk" the past simple and past participle forms respectively of "to think?"

Why can't you use the present perfect continuous or past perfect continuous in the passive voice? (this one's actually pretty easy)

Why is there no future tense in English?

Why is the word "blue" written like that?

Why do we create past simple forms of verbs by adding -d or -ed to the end of the base form?

Evidence for all of the above please, armchair experts.

galljga1 wrote: »

@day than I have but that is not what I have encountered. What you are stating is your opinion, not "correct".
I can throw in "correct", "standard usage", "among English speakers around the world" "most people here use it that way". To be honest, that all means nothing. Next is still "coming immediately after the time of writing or speaking". If persons use it incorrectly, so be it.

Yeah, all those things that determine what a language is and how it works are nonsense. Sure who needs languages anyway, all we need to be able to do is grunt and point vaguely at days from this week in a calendar!

Maireadio · 26-05-2016 12:44AM

Do you realise how badly you're coming across?

And in the blog post you've made on the subject, you even admit that there is no official definitive statement on the correct usage. So why are you dogmatically claiming that the way you use it is correct if the way others use it is different?

bnt wrote: »

Here's an idea: If there's a possibility of doubt, just give the date. Effective communication starts with a clear message.

The sensible thing, and something I always do when making plans, as the phrase 'next Saturday' is ambiguous. Obdurately stating that my way is the right way isn't much good if plans go awry because the date was not clarified.

LordSutch · 26-05-2016 01:49AM

This Saturday is in two days time...

FunLover18 · 26-05-2016 03:18AM

Well, as usual late at night and long after this thread has runs its course I've realised how best to tackle this problem and it's not by trying to define 'next', I think the key is 'this'. So here are some scenarios I've come up with, to demonstrate my point, using comparisons that have been brought up earlier.

****************

I was at the bus stop with a friend. A bus came around the corner and he asked "Are you getting this bus?", to which I replied "No, I'll get the next one."

Later, on the bus, we were approaching a stop I asked "Are we getting off at this stop", he told me to wait until the next stop.

****************

'This' is used with periods of time related to the present eg this week, this Saturday, and 'next' can be defined as coming immediately after the present one in order, rank, or space. 'This Saturday' being the present or current Saturday, May 28th, in relative terms, it therefore makes sense contextually that 'next Saturday' would be the Saturday coming immediately after, June 4th.

Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there because I knew I wouldn't have been able to sleep properly otherwise.

Rockstreams · 26-05-2016 05:59AM

The King of Moo wrote: »

Yeah, I actually haven't got round to that academic survey yet, shame on me.

Look, the standard usage of "next Saturday" among English speakers around the world is to mean "Saturday of next week," and most people here use it that way.

I understand why people confuse "this Saturday" and "next Saturday" but it's not correct and it's not more common.

I'll get off this merry-go-round now.

Thanks because you are wrong.

Esel · 26-05-2016 06:23AM

'On any Sunday' is a good film.

It will probably be on TV on some Saturday night soon.

evolving_doors · 26-05-2016 06:25AM

FunLover18 wrote: »

Well, as usual late at night and long after this thread has runs its course I've realised how best to tackle this problem and it's not by trying to define 'next', I think the key is 'this'. So here are some scenarios I've come up with, to demonstrate my point, using comparisons that have been brought up earlier.

****************

I was at the bus stop with a friend. A bus came around the corner and he asked "Are you getting this bus?", to which I replied "No, I'll get the next one."

Later, on the bus, we were approaching a stop I asked "Are we getting off at this stop", he told me to wait until the next stop.

****************

'This' is used with periods of time related to the present eg this week, this Saturday, and 'next' can be defined as coming immediately after the present one in order, rank, or space. 'This Saturday' being the present or current Saturday, May 28th, in relative terms, it therefore makes sense contextually that 'next Saturday' would be the Saturday coming immediately after, June 4th.

Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there because I knew I wouldn't have been able to sleep properly otherwise.

So you rock up to the bus stop and ask some Joe what time is the next bus.
They say 2 minutes.
You say "seriously?, you mean this bus! Don't you?"
And he asks " what bus, I don't see no bus...?"
And you say... "No. Not the one coming now, the one after it!".
And he be like "whatever dude, I'm getting the next bus that comes along, not the next one after the next one".
And you punch him in the face and steal his IPhone.

The King of Moo · 26-05-2016 07:46AM

Maireadio wrote: »

Do you realise how badly you're coming across?

And in the blog post you've made on the subject, you even admit that there is no official definitive statement on the correct usage. So why are you dogmatically claiming that the way you use it is correct if the way others use it is different?

There's no official definitive statement on anything in the English language: who could make it?

Standard usage develops through usage (more people use "next Saturday" to mean "Saturday next week"), similarity to other forms ("next summer," "next July") and intrinsic and extrinsic logic (it simply makes sense for more people to think of it as "Saturday next week").

With some more basic forms the gap between standard usage and non-usage is large and there's little conflicting usage. It's why we never say I'm working in a factory if we've worked there for many years.

The gap between the uses of "next Saturday" is not as large, and confusion is understandable.
Can we measure exactly how many people use it one way and how many another? Large research bodies can use corpora to determine which forms people use often, but not meaning. That could only really be done by large-scale survey.
But through my empirical awareness of what people mean most often when they say "next Saturday," and my knowledge and understanding of the language and which meaning is more likely to be understood, I'm confident in saying what the standard usage of the form is, and the fact that though there's conflict in its usage, the standard form is standard enough to be classed as correct.

Maireadio · 26-05-2016 08:51AM

The King of Moo wrote: »

But through my empirical awareness of what people mean most often when they say "next Saturday," and my knowledge and understanding of the language and which meaning is more likely to be understood, I'm confident in saying what the standard usage of the form is, and the fact that though there's conflict in its usage, the standard form is standard enough to be classed as correct.

That's nice and all, but not very convincing. It's safe to assume most people on this thread have English as their first language. And yet, people have intrepreted the phrase differently. How do you decide that who of those native speakers has it right?

And someone pointed out earlier in the thread that where they were in the US, 'next Saturday' is always the upcoming Saturday (i.e. the 28th) and 'this Saturday' is the Saturday just passed.

If you are the expert you say you are, convince us, instead of just saying "I'm right" and waffling on as you did above. Just saying you have knowledge isn't very convincing in and of itself.

26-05-2016 09:00AM

What I love about this thread is that the longer it continues, the more the answer to the question changes.

jester77 · 26-05-2016 09:38AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What I love about this thread is that the longer it continues, the more the answer to the question changes.

True, those that think next Saturday is June 4th will be correct once the weekend is over.

maximoose · 26-05-2016 10:02AM

No, by then "next saturday" will be the 11th.

evolving_doors · 26-05-2016 10:11AM

Will the next post be #205 or #206 ?

26-05-2016 10:11AM

#206.

26-05-2016 10:11AM

No. Now #206.

26-05-2016 10:11AM

While I myself would use this saturday (28th) and next Saturday (4th), whenever someone says it to me I invariably make them clarify. As I tend to do whenever I say it. There needs to be a standard brought in!

The King of Moo · 26-05-2016 10:14AM

Maireadio wrote: »

That's nice and all, but not very convincing. It's safe to assume most people on this thread have English as their first language. And yet, people have intrepreted the phrase differently. How do you decide that who of those native speakers has it right?

And someone pointed out earlier in the thread that where they were in the US, 'next Saturday' is always the upcoming Saturday (i.e. the 28th) and 'this Saturday' is the Saturday just passed.

If you are the expert you say you are, convince us, instead of just saying "I'm right" and waffling on as you did above. Just saying you have knowledge isn't very convincing in and of itself.

Yes, I know people interpret it differently. I've said that all along, and I understand why.

But as I've already said, I consider one meaning to be standard because:

In my exposure to its usage among different demographics and conscious reflection on its usage, it's more common.
I've discussed it with English-language professionals, and external research on usage conducted by English-language experts, e.g. this advice from The Free Dictionary:

Be Careful!
You don't usually use 'next' to refer to a day in the same week. For example, if it is Monday and you intend to ring someone in four days' time, don't say 'I will ring you next Friday'. You say 'I will ring you on Friday'.
He's going camping on Friday.

If you want to make it completely clear that you are talking about a day in the same week, you use this.
The film opens this Thursday at various cinemas in London.

Similarly, you can say that something will happen this weekend.
I might be able to go skiing this weekend.

It's more logical in relation to existing conventions on referring to future time.

Now if you're looking for some quantitative data regarding meaning in language then you're out of look because a) you would need a huge survey and b) meaning is always going to be somewhat fluid and apparently aribtrary in language. I've already tried to demonstrate this. Corpora are not so useful in this case as they're overly-lexical in focus.

All we can do is look at what people use and how they understand it, what experts with knowledge of language systems consider, and the form and meaning of the language, particularly as it relates to other language forms.

We have to take a bottom-up approach (what do people say?) and a top-down approach (what makes purely linguistic sense), and we can identify standard usage from that.

I don't doubt that people could survey their peers and find that for most of them, "next Saturday" and "this Saturday" mean the same thing. You could conduct a similar survey in parts of England and come to the conclusion that "We was at home yesterday" is standard usage.

So while there is understandble confusion about "this" and "next," and conflating them is a recognisable non-standard usage, it is non-standard from the point of view of anyone with more than a passing interest in language.

The King of Moo · 26-05-2016 10:17AM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Will the next post be #205 or #206 ?

It was #205.

"the next post"

Next Saturday will be 4th June, but the next Saturday will be 28th May.

maximoose · 26-05-2016 10:18AM

So, just to clarify. It's now Thursday, if I was to ask you now:

"What are you doing next Saturday?"

Some of you are going to tell me what you're doing in two days time?

Is this all a joke lads, am I being punked or something

degsie · 26-05-2016 10:30AM

The King of Moo wrote: »

It was #205.

"the next post"

Next Saturday will be 4th June, but the next Saturday will be 28th May.

How about Saturday next?

When is next Saturday?

Comments