Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" - "Book readers"

Paddy Cow · 24-05-2016 09:27PM

Great episode. The Sansa/Littlefinger dynamic was interesting. While Sansa is finally starting to assert herself, her lack of experience in playing the game shows and she handled Littlefinger badly. When she told LF that she could have Brienne cut him down it reminded me of the scene between LF and Cersei, when Cersei said she could have her guards cut him down and that was "real power". We all know that behind the scenes LF was playing Cersei like a fool and was the cause of most of her problems.

LF really didn't know how bad Ramsey was. I was watching the last season again and in one scene LF said to Ramsey how little he knew about him and that was a rare thing. If Sansa really had her game on, she would have taken LF up on his offer and used his army to her advantage. Instead she layed out her plans and made a very dangerous enemy.

I don't think LF has plans to take the Iron Throne for himself. I think he is on a long term revenge mission. He was besotted by Catelyn and humiliated by her brother and everything he has done since then has to bring about the destruction of the elite. He made both Catelyn and Ned think he could trust them and betrayed them both. He might fancy Sansa but I don't doubt he would sacrifice her in an instant. He hates people in power and loves that he, a nobody, can toy with them and destroy them, while all the time they think he is their friend. Even his name which he uses with pride, comes from the fact that he came from a house of little consequence.

I don't see a happy ending for Sansa. I think LF will be her downfall. I don't think Bran, Rickon or Arya will survive either. All we have been told about the ending is that it will be bittersweet. To me this means that all the Stark children will die and the only one who lives is the b@stard Jon. So while good wins overall, it comes at a high price.

trellheim · 24-05-2016 11:23PM

Someone up thread spotted the homage to Aliens ( when they are all escaping through the vents towards the end ) in the corridor run

Absolutely awesome episode

Lunger · 25-05-2016 03:12AM

Hodor.

Hodead.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 25-05-2016 07:21AM

Sad Professor wrote: »

Summer's death annoyed me, though. I wish they hadn't made the direwolves CGI. It was a bad decision that guaranteed they'd be underused and then get killed off-screen. The manner in which Summer and Shaggydog have been dispensed with this season makes me think it's a budgetary thing and they won't be killed in the books.

You think that's bad? What about the budget savings at Hardhome when you had ten thousand wildlings outside the settlement who all got killed by wights in less time than Summer? I mean look at all the CGI that was saved! (at 1.23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69adFkWfv9Q ) We seem to have about 5,000 wildings left in the whole of Westeros now. Seriously.

The direwolves got most airtime when they were actual dogs. They should probably have gone for camera trickery. Imagine how much screentime gandalf would have got in Lord of the Rings if Peter Jackson had said: "no the height difference between Frodo and Gandalf is too great, we better use a CGI gandalf instead of Ian Mcewan"

EagererBeaver wrote: »

IIRC, the reason Robb needed to cross at the twins was to split his forces and be able to surprise Jaime at the Whispering Wood. The King's Road goes straight up through the neck and bypasses the twins altogether.

I may be wrong, but I think all roads lead through the twins. There can be a treacherous route through the marches, that I think is navigable with help from the crannogmen though (the Reeds). I think the splitting of Robb's troops was explicitly after the twins.

Riskymove · 25-05-2016 07:56AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I don't think Bran, Rickon or Arya will survive either.

well for me Bran's fate was revealed on the last episode if you read between the lines of what was said to him

Baggly · 25-05-2016 08:09AM

Riskymove wrote: »

well for me Bran's fate was revealed on the last episode if you read between the lines of what was said to him

Go on.....

Baggly · 25-05-2016 08:14AM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

I may be wrong, but I think all roads lead through the twins. There can be a treacherous route through the marches, that I think is navigable with help from the crannogmen though (the Reeds). I think the splitting of Robb's troops was explicitly after the twins.

The Kingsroad bypasses The Twins. But the Kingsroad or The Twins are your only 2 options.

If the Kingsroad didnt bypass them, you would effectively have to march 100's of Kms north, cross The Twins, and then march 100s of Kms south to get to The Eyrie.

Google Maps agrees.

Riskymove · 25-05-2016 08:18AM

Pter wrote: »

Go on.....

"The time has come......."

Tomagotchye · 25-05-2016 12:07PM

Bran is a joke. He's actually done more harm than good and the time travel craic...too much. Cotf were useless. Creating whitewalkers with powerful magic and then never bothering to have a way to stop them? Terrible idea. Deserved their deaths.

Great that hodor found what might be the only door for hundreds of miles for his name. That's just laziness. Fair enough it was sad but it really felt thrown together. Honestly, I never get the live for bran and pals. All they do is waste time. Much like arya, just going nowhere and taking their time in doing so

OhHiMark · 25-05-2016 12:22PM

Tomagotchye wrote: »

Creating whitewalkers with powerful magic and then never bothering to have a way to stop them? Terrible idea. Deserved their deaths.

Great that hodor found what might be the only door for hundreds of miles for his name. That's just laziness. Fair enough it was sad but it really felt thrown together. Honestly, I never get the live for bran and pals. All they do is waste time. Much like arya, just going nowhere and taking their time in doing so

They were obviously desperate and created the white walkers so that they wouldn't die off completely. Yes it would have been nice if they had a way to kill them off, but maybe there was no way to do that so they went with what they thought might be the lesser of two evils.

And how is it laziness and thrown together when George RR Martin has had it planned for twenty years?

Sleepy · 25-05-2016 01:09PM

If you can't spot the parallel between the Children of the Forest creating the White Walkers and the nuclear arms race of the cold war that would have had a young George RR Martin doing "Duck and Cover" drills in his school days, then yeah, perhaps it looks a little thrown together...

Jofspring · 25-05-2016 02:41PM

Well I assume the Dragonglass was the safety net the children of the forest were using to protect themselves from the white walkers. Why they didn't have it ready to go incase of attack I don't know.

Ave Sodalis · 25-05-2016 02:46PM

Tomagotchye wrote:

Great that hodor found what might be the only door for hundreds of miles for his name.

It doesn't really matter if it's hundreds of miles away or in a city. It's that door and that door in those circumstances that he needed.

J. Marston · 25-05-2016 02:52PM

Jofspring wrote: »

Well I assume the Dragonglass was the safety net the children of the forest were using to protect themselves from the white walkers. Why they didn't have it ready to go incase of attack I don't know.

They did. There was Dragonglass spears lined up against the entrance when Meera ran back inside.

Baggly · 25-05-2016 02:54PM

Tomagotchye wrote: »

Great that hodor found what might be the only door for hundreds of miles for his name. That's just laziness. Fair enough it was sad but it really felt thrown together. Honestly, I never get the live for bran and pals. All they do is waste time. Much like arya, just going nowhere and taking their time in doing so

Maybe i am misunderstanding you.

Are you saying it was lazy that Hodor found the door that his past self had known about via warging?

or

It was lazy there wasnt more doors there and Hodor knew which one to hold......?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 25-05-2016 02:58PM

I usually do find the Bran bits pretty boring, can't really say I even noticed he was absent for a season. All the things going on with him and the Three Eyed Crow really are much more interesting on the page than the screen.

This week and the TOJ flashbacks and that though, really been enjoying. Myles McNutt at the AV Club has a good review this week, saying that he's glad he got to experience Hold The Door on the show rather than in the books, have to say I agree with him.

bnt · 25-05-2016 03:53PM

It's funny how there could be differerent interpretations of what happened to Hodor, but that's time travel for you. What I thought I saw was a dual connection:
1: Bran warged in to present day Hodor, forcing him to hold the door etc.
2: Hodor having some latent warging ability of his own, meaning that his distress in the battle was picked up by his younger self, blowing his mind in the process.

I didn't think that Bran was deliberately warged in to Hodor and young Wylis at the same time - rather that there was some kind of psychic "overflow" from Hodor to his younger self - implying some latent psychic ability. We're in to real mierenneuker territory here, I know, but that's part of the fun.

Of course, there could have been an easier option:

amos13 · 25-05-2016 07:41PM

Just reading over the Dany prophesy from the book again (don't wanna put this on speculation thread as non book readers can be lurking) it's the "3" prophesy, and seems we've had two of each already, if I'm interpreting them right:
"three fires you must light, one for life, one for death, one for love" it seems we've had two already - the first gave life to the dragons, the second killed the Khals, the third??? Any ideas what could happen here?
"Three mounts you must ride, one to bed (Khal drogo), one to dread (drogon) and one to love" - again, no idea what this could be
"Three treasons you must know, once for blood (Mirri) once for gold (Jorah), and once for love"

The only thing I can think of is she seems to love Daario and I'm pretty convinced he's going to betray her at some point soon. He's been getting a lot more screentime lately too and a scene with the two of them is in next weeks preview. I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out what it could be so any thoughts would be appreciated!

Ben Gadot · 25-05-2016 07:55PM

Kenna Mysterious Scowl wrote: »

I usually do find the Bran bits pretty boring, can't really say I even noticed he was absent for a season. All the things going on with him and the Three Eyed Crow really are much more interesting on the page than the screen.

This week and the TOJ flashbacks and that though, really been enjoying. Myles McNutt at the AV Club has a good review this week, saying that he's glad he got to experience Hold The Door on the show rather than in the books, have to say I agree with him.

I think it's natural to find Bran's story to be the highlight this season. Once it was known what the nature of his story would be (flashbacks and visions), it was always going to be dynamite. King's Landing, the Dotraki, Meereen, Dorne, Island Islands, etc...just can't compare.

The North/the wall have been a close second, followed surprisingly by Arya's story, which is mercifully moving at speed.

EagererBeaver · 25-05-2016 10:40PM

Sleepy wrote: »

If you can't spot the parallel between the Children of the Forest creating the White Walkers and the nuclear arms race of the cold war that would have had a young George RR Martin doing "Duck and Cover" drills in his school days, then yeah, perhaps it looks a little thrown together...

Has he issued any commentary about the episode and its inspiration or did you just decide that one fitted nicely and therefore must have been the source?

EagererBeaver · 25-05-2016 10:41PM

amos13 wrote: »

Just reading over the Dany prophesy from the book again (don't wanna put this on speculation thread as non book readers can be lurking) it's the "3" prophesy, and seems we've had two of each already, if I'm interpreting them right:
"three fires you must light, one for life, one for death, one for love" it seems we've had two already - the first gave life to the dragons, the second killed the Khals, the third??? Any ideas what could happen here?
"Three mounts you must ride, one to bed (Khal drogo), one to dread (drogon) and one to love" - again, no idea what this could be
"Three treasons you must know, once for blood (Mirri) once for gold (Jorah), and once for love"

The only thing I can think of is she seems to love Daario and I'm pretty convinced he's going to betray her at some point soon. He's been getting a lot more screentime lately too and a scene with the two of them is in next weeks preview. I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out what it could be so any thoughts would be appreciated!

I don't think she loves Daario at all. In the books he's a bedwarmer she need some affection for, but not love.

rawn · 25-05-2016 11:52PM

EagererBeaver wrote:

I don't think she loves Daario at all. In the books he's a bedwarmer she need some affection for, but not love.

Agreed, she knows he's a cruel man but he appeals to her "inner dragon". She wants him but she'll never love him. I don't think the prophecy about love refers to him, or even specifically a lover. I think it might be someone close to get that she trusts completely, like Misendei.

Coincidently i don't think the first betrayal fits either, i never felt that Mirri Maz Duhr betrayed her, Drogo shoved mud in his wound instead of letting it heal and Dany went into the tent when told not to.

Sleepy · 26-05-2016 08:25AM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Has he issued any commentary about the episode and its inspiration or did you just decide that one fitted nicely and therefore must have been the source?

He's spoken at some length before about how he wanted the series to show the horror of war and that both the Vietnam war and the cold war had a profound effect on him as a child.

That's why we see so much of Brienne's wanderings in the Riverlands during A Feast For Crows: to show that the Game of Thrones extracts a very high price from the ordinary people of Westeros.

qrx · 26-05-2016 10:23AM

I'm sorry but I found the whole thing very badly done. My only hope is the book is different but I don't think it will be.

1. New alien type Eco warrior creatures created the whitewalkers. What? That's it? as simple as that? And to protect their trees? LOL. btw, where did they come from again? They've been so insignificant and forgettable.
2. Zombies...enough said.
3. after about the 2nd time he said "hold the door" I knew where it was going. no please, please don't merge it into Hodor....ah ffs

Lame, a very lame 2/10 for a big, big disappointment. I don't think Georgie has ever had a plan for how he is going to wrap things up. Every story so far has been a dead end and now he's tasked with completing the story. I'm sorry I don't think he has the talent. I love his work so far but the anticipation is a big part of it and now we are heading for a big let down. Convenient how the zombie guys don't like fire, you know the same stuff that dragons breath. :rolleyes:

IK09 · 26-05-2016 10:31AM

qrx wrote: »

Convenient how the zombie guys don't like fire, you know the same stuff that dragons breath. :rolleyes:

Have you ever heard the title "A Song of Fire and Ice"?

The clue might be in the name.

granty1987 · 26-05-2016 10:44AM

intheclouds wrote: »

There should only be All Bran - but the Nights King being able to touch his body in the past would suggest he has physicality as well as consciousness in the past.

I would counter that there is only one consciousness of All Bran, but maybe 2 physical Brans?

<<head explodes>>

All Bran should watch out. The Night King is a cold hearted cereal killer

duploelabs · 26-05-2016 11:43AM

granty1987 wrote: »

All Bran should watch out. The Night King is a cold hearted cereal killer

Well at least he's keeping regular

OhHiMark · 26-05-2016 11:50AM

qrx wrote: »

1. New alien type Eco warrior creatures created the whitewalkers. What? That's it? as simple as that? And to protect their trees?

Eh no, it was to protect their lives

qrx wrote: »

Convenient how the zombie guys don't like fire, you know the same stuff that dragons breath. :rolleyes:

It's called A Song of Ice and Fire. Do you think there's any chance that maybe it's all been planned out?

qrx · 26-05-2016 12:19PM

OhHiMark wrote: »

It's called A Song of Ice and Fire. Do you think there's any chance that maybe it's all been planned out?

IK09 wrote:

Have you ever heard the title "A Song of Fire and Ice"?

The clue might be in the name.

You've missed my point. I'm not saying it's convenient that the two will meet, it's a bit condescending to think that was my point. I'm saying it's convenient that the zombies don't like fire, oh and that the white walkers put out fire. It's all just too easy and it really shows that the finer details have not been well planned out. Not to a standard I would expect.

OhHiMark · 26-05-2016 12:50PM

qrx wrote: »

You've missed my point. I'm not saying it's convenient that the two will meet, it's a bit condescending to think that was my point. I'm saying it's convenient that the zombies don't like fire, oh and that the white walkers put out fire. It's all just too easy and it really shows that the finer details have not been well planned out. Not to a standard I would expect.

I've no idea what you're trying to say here. Pretty much every living (or undead) thing doesn't like fire. And the White Walkers are able to get past the fire to show their power.

Season 6 Episode 5 "The Door" - "Book readers"

Comments