How much tax is paid by the Irish and where does all that money go?

L1011 · 25-05-2016 09:50AM

armabelle wrote: »

O k so saw this after my earlier post. Thanks! So this money came out of the pocket of the Irish people and did this impact on their standard of living in any way? seems like a lot of money...

A number of billions have been recouped by share sales (500m PTSB, 1Bn ordinary BOI, 1.3Bn preference BOI, 1.3Bn for Irish Life), the Bank Guarantee payments (can't find the figures right now) and so on. There will be a few more billion to come (remaining PTSB, AIB shares; believe there's some stake in BOI, IBRC/NAMA may return a 'profit', etc)

The exchequer was going down the tubes even without these payments - many of which came from the NPRF rather than the exchequer - and massive tax increases and spending cuts were required anyway as the 1997-2007 administrations had cut the tax base to an unsustainable level and were reliant on payments like transaction taxes from house/car purchases to a ridiculous level.

armabelle wrote: »

I have a child... why am I not "getting"?

Childrens Allowance is a social welfare payment.

Geuze · 25-05-2016 09:53AM

stefanovich wrote: »

1/3 is social welfare. 1/3 is health and 1/3 everything else.

Not quite correct.

Total exp = 75 bn approx.

Social welfare = 20 bn approx

Total social benefits = 27,988 m

Health exp = 13 bn approx - way less than 1/3 of spending

Geuze · 25-05-2016 09:54AM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

We had a figure of under 5% unemployment. It's currently at 8%. You are way overestimating the number of lazy people in this country.

The majority of the non-working adults supported by the State are not classified as unemployed.

Geuze · 25-05-2016 09:58AM

armabelle wrote: »

Ok thanks a lot for sharing the figures. So was this 64bn in the spending reports listed along with the others above? Did the Irish people have to pay that money to the banks? Oh and last question if you don't mind: How did this affect the standard of living in Ireland?

Clearly you don't or haven't lived in Ireland during the last few years.

Yes, the injections of capital into the banks were classified as some type of Govt spending in the years that it happened.

Whether we "had" to save these banks is open to debate.

Our public net liabilities grew by 65bn approx, although we acquired ownership of the banks in return.

The interest on this extra debt is a huge drain on the public finances, so yes, our standard of living has fallen as a result.

Geuze · 25-05-2016 10:01AM

armabelle wrote: »

O k so saw this after my earlier post. Thanks! So this money came out of the pocket of the Irish people and did this impact on their standard of living in any way? seems like a lot of money...

Not directly out of the pockets of people, no.

We sold about 20bn in assets in the NPRF, and borrowed the balance, to inject about 64-65bn into the banks.

Now, we did acquire the banks in return.

And we have sold some of these acquired assets, so there will be some returns.

But the 30bn approx put into Anglo / INBS / IBRC - that is a total loss.

So, yes, a sickening cost imposed onto the Irish population.

stefanovich · 25-05-2016 10:51AM

armabelle wrote:

don't smokers spend more time in hospitals?

Yes, and all the people living off supermacs and coca cola. You know, those people you see with snot nosed neglected fat kids and trolleys full of junk.

stefanovich · 25-05-2016 10:52AM

armabelle wrote:

I have a child... why am I not "getting"?

If you are in employment and making enough to be a net contributer then I consider it some tax back. Why not just reduce taxation?

stefanovich · 25-05-2016 11:02AM

Geuze wrote:

Health exp = 13 bn approx - way less than 1/3 of spending

Okay, I'll trust you there. Still the combined cost is 40 billion out of 75 with social welfare taking an extraordinary percentage.

Geuze · 25-05-2016 11:47AM

stefanovich wrote: »

Okay, I'll trust you there. Still the combined cost is 40 billion out of 75 with social welfare taking an extraordinary percentage.

No need to trust me, see here:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/sha/systemofhealthaccounts2013/

Yes, social welfare spending has grown a lot over last 20 years, half the pop are now recipients or beneficiaries of welfare.

Charles Babbage · 25-05-2016 11:55AM

Geuze wrote: »

2015 Govt exp = 75,429m, of which
wages/pensions = 19,543m

Of course this figure is exaggerated, at least as a cost against taxation, as pension contributions are deducted from the people who receive the wages, before they receive them, but this figure still includes the full cost of the pensions. Also not everyone on the public payroll is funded from the taxpayers, there are many fees etc, a driving tester or university lecturer may be largely funded from the fees paid for the service.

Pro Hoc Vice · 25-05-2016 11:58AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course this figure is exaggerated, at least as a cost against taxation, as pension contributions are deducted from the people who receive the wages, before they receive them, but this figure still includes the full cost of the pensions. Also not everyone on the public payroll is funded from the taxpayers, there are many fees etc, a driving tester or university lecturer may be largely funded from the fees paid for the service.

Another example is the Courts Service total cost is about 110 million wages is about 50 million of that inc all staff including judges total income from court stamp duty is about 50 million.

stefanovich · 25-05-2016 12:02PM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote:

Another example is the Courts Service total cost is about 110 million wages is about 50 million of that inc all staff including judges total income from court stamp duty is about 50 million.

Wonder how much is free legal aid for the little scrotes.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-05-2016 12:13PM

armabelle wrote:

Great thanks. Good to see that is available. But how does the average person know how much tax is really paid and how much is really spent? Is it fair to say that we can't possibly know and all we can do is hope that the money is spent correctly and as it is reported?

armabelle wrote:

thanks for the breakdown... how do we know that those numbers are correct though? I mean they say 19 million goes to wages and pensions but who can say for sure?

The office of the comptroller and auditor general is responsible for auditing government departments and reporting to the public accounts committee ( PAC ) who then grill government officials and ensure changes are implemented.

They audit financial accounts and value for money for services. That's how you know 19 million was actually spent on wages and pensions.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-05-2016 12:15PM

stefanovich wrote:

1/3 is social welfare. 1/3 is health and 1/3 everything else.

Does social welfare include pensions?

Pro Hoc Vice · 25-05-2016 12:15PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Wonder how much is free legal aid for the little scrotes.

Criminal Legal Aid is not part of the Courts service, but it amounts to 50 million a year.

Pro Hoc Vice · 25-05-2016 12:17PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Does social welfare include pensions?

Yes the old age pension is part of social welfare spending. If I remember correctly the pension bill is the biggest part of social welfare.

http://www.thejournal.ie/social-welfare-budget-1562278-Jul2014/

Geuze · 25-05-2016 02:19PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Does social welfare include pensions?

State Pensions, yes.

Occupational public service pensions, no.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 25-05-2016 08:21PM

armabelle wrote: »

don't smokers spend more time in hospitals?

The post below is taken from another thread so credit goes to that poster for backing up the point with facts. But common sense should clearly say that not too many smokers live until they are 90, retirement age is 65/67, old people cost the state more than any other subset of the population.

And I like old people, it's just with more and more people living well into their retirement I wonder is it sustainable.

andrew wrote: »

Here's the figures for Finland if you're interested. In summary:
Average total healthcare costs were €4,700 lower, since they die early

Dying early means €126,850 less in pension costs

Overall, smokers’ average net contribution to the public finance balance was €133 800 greater per individual compared with non-smokers

How much tax is paid by the Irish and where does all that money go?

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