How much tax is paid by the Irish and where does all that money go?

armabelle

I can think of a few places where the government spends money like roads, hospitals and parks but was wondering if someone could give me the whole list of where the peoples tax money go. Does some of the money go to bailing out banks here in Ireland as well?

newacc2015

armabelle wrote: »

I can think of a few places where the government spends money like roads, hospitals and parks but was wondering if someone could give me the whole list of where the peoples tax money go. Does some of the money go to bailing out banks here in Ireland as well?

The budget breaks down the spending of the state. It is document available online. All the papers publish condensed versions of it

CIARAN_BOYLE

Expenditure is here anyway
http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2016/Documents/Part%20II%20Expenditure%20Allocations%202016%20-%202018.pdf

armabelle

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Expenditure is here anyway
http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2016/Documents/Part%20II%20Expenditure%20Allocations%202016%20-%202018.pdf

Great thanks. Good to see that is available. But how does the average person know how much tax is really paid and how much is really spent? Is it fair to say that we can't possibly know and all we can do is hope that the money is spent correctly and as it is reported?

L1011

armabelle wrote: »

Great thanks. Good to see that is available. But how does the average person know how much tax is really paid and how much is really spent?

They can know if they are bothered to check.

armabelle wrote: »

Is it fair to say that we can't possibly know and all we can do is hope that the money is spent correctly and as it is reported?

No.

Carlos Orange

http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/

relax carry on

armabelle wrote: »

Great thanks. Good to see that is available. But how does the average person know how much tax is really paid and how much is really spent? Is it fair to say that we can't possibly know and all we can do is hope that the money is spent correctly and as it is reported?

Here's your collection figures for 2015.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/annual-reports/2015/results.html

Geuze

armabelle wrote: »

I can think of a few places where the government spends money like roads, hospitals and parks but was wondering if someone could give me the whole list of where the peoples tax money go. Does some of the money go to bailing out banks here in Ireland as well?

Have a read here:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gfsa/governmentfinancestatisticsapril2016/


2015 Govt revenue = 70,492m, of which:

tax = 50,748m
PRSI = 11,429m

Geuze

2015 Govt exp = 75,429m, of which


wages/pensions = 19,543m

social welfare and other social benefits = 27,988m

goods and services = 9,324m

interest = 6,747m

Geuze

armabelle wrote: »

Does some of the money go to bailing out banks here in Ireland as well?

The funds spent on injecting capital into banks was a few years ago.

armabelle

Geuze wrote: »

The funds spent on injecting capital into banks was a few years ago.

Ah so capital was injected into banks here too then?

armabelle

Geuze wrote: »

2015 Govt exp = 75,429m, of which


wages/pensions = 19,543m

social welfare and other social benefits = 27,988m

goods and services = 9,324m

interest = 6,747m

thanks for the breakdown... how do we know that those numbers are correct though? I mean they say 19 million goes to wages and pensions but who can say for sure?

L1011

armabelle wrote: »

thanks for the breakdown... how do we know that those numbers are correct though? I mean they say 19 million goes to wages and pensions but who can say for sure?

Because there is zero reason as to why they'd falsify them.

barneystinson

armabelle wrote: »

thanks for the breakdown... how do we know that those numbers are correct though? I mean they say 19 million goes to wages and pensions but who can say for sure?

Well it depends on who you mean by "they" - unless you're a tin foil hat wearer who thinks that everyone else is in on a conspiracy, you'd have to realise that it would require the complicity of hundreds (if not thousands) of people, from lowly clerical grades the whole way up to sec gens of the civil service, as well as govt ministers, to pull such a monumental amount of wool over everyone's eyes.

Not to mention Europe - don't you think they take a good long hard look at the cooking of our books??

And then there's all the economists, in both industry and academia, who pore over the data and trends in it - are they part of the "they", or are they like you and victims of the conspiracy...?

armabelle

barneystinson wrote: »

Well it depends on who you mean by "they" - unless you're a tin foil hat wearer who thinks that everyone else is in on a conspiracy, you'd have to realise that it would require the complicity of hundreds (if not thousands) of people, from lowly clerical grades the whole way up to sec gens of the civil service, as well as govt ministers, to pull such a monumental amount of wool over everyone's eyes.

Not to mention Europe - don't you think they take a good long hard look at the cooking of our books??

And then there's all the economists, in both industry and academia, who pore over the data and trends in it - are they part of the "they", or are they like you and victims of the conspiracy...?

don't really think anything, just asking questions for now and thanks for your input. Also, I don't recall saying anything about a conspiracy so not sure what you mean.

ElBarco

http://databank.per.gov.ie/ is also useful.

Geuze

armabelle wrote: »

thanks for the breakdown... how do we know that those numbers are correct though? I mean they say 19 million goes to wages and pensions but who can say for sure?

I am intrigued by your doubts about official statistics.

Rest assured that the dozens of staff in the CSO and the PER are keeping good track of all the revenue and spending.

Plus the figures are audited by the CAG.

Geuze

armabelle wrote: »

Ah so capital was injected into banks here too then?

By "here", I take it you mean Ireland?

Yes, the State spent 63-64 bn injecting capital into banks.

Geuze

armabelle wrote: »

Ah so capital was injected into banks here too then?

barneystinson

armabelle wrote: »

don't really think anything, just asking questions for now and thanks for your input. Also, I don't recall saying anything about a conspiracy so not sure what you mean.

Well it's the clear implication of a question like "how do we know "they" are telling us the truth..."; either that or arithmetic incompetence on a massive scale.

stefanovich

armabelle wrote:

I can think of a few places where the government spends money like roads, hospitals and parks but was wondering if someone could give me the whole list of where the peoples tax money go. Does some of the money go to bailing out banks here in Ireland as well?

1/3 is social welfare. 1/3 is health and 1/3 everything else.

Bear in mind that social welfare includes child allowance. Also bear in mind that those on social welfare are more likely to be uneducated and have a junk diet, smoke and drink excessively and use up health resources.

In summary most of your tax money is spent supporting the needy and the lazy. We need to deal with that second group.

Wanderer78

stefanovich wrote:

In summary most of your tax money is spent supporting the needy and the lazy. We need to deal with that second group.

Some research required!

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

stefanovich wrote: »

1/3 is social welfare. 1/3 is health and 1/3 everything else.

Bear in mind that social welfare includes child allowance. Also bear in mind that those on social welfare are more likely to be uneducated and have a junk diet, smoke and drink excessively and use up health resources.

In summary most of your tax money is spent supporting the needy and the lazy. We need to deal with that second group.

We had a figure of under 5% unemployment. It's currently at 8%. You are way overestimating the number of lazy people in this country.

From an economic point of view we want people to be smokers. The country makes a net gain from them.

The main issues with expenditure is public wages, pensions and waste in my opinion.

stefanovich

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

We had a figure of under 5% unemployment. It's currently at 8%. You are way overestimating the number of lazy people in this country.

From an economic point of view we want people to be smokers. The country makes a net gain from them.

The main issues with expenditure is public wages, pensions and waste in my opinion.

8% of people who are old or young enough to work and who are not "disabled".

Also a lot of employed people are still getting social welfare. In fact anyone with a child is.

I said we need to deal with the lazy. The needy, that's okay in my book.

1/3 is health, 1/3 is social welfare and 1/3 is everything else. This is fact.

Edit: A lot of the "social welfare" is wealth redistribution to folks who aren't so needy after all.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

stefanovich wrote: »

8% of people who are old or young enough to work and who are not "disabled".

Also a lot of employed people are still getting social welfare. In fact anyone with a child is.

I said we need to deal with the lazy. The needy, that's okay in my book.

1/3 is health, 1/3 is social welfare and 1/3 is everything else. This is fact.

Edit: A lot of the "social welfare" is wealth redistribution to folks who aren't so needy after all.

I think paying children's allowance is a good thing. It's a small percentage of the total social welfare bill. If it was only restricted to be paid to those who truly need it, I think you would encourage a poverty trap.

The fact it's a blanket payment, and not an 'only those who are truly needy' payment, is encouraging to those who work, and doesn't encourage those who don't.

armabelle

Geuze wrote: »

By "here", I take it you mean Ireland?

Yes, the State spent 63-64 bn injecting capital into banks.

Ok thanks a lot for sharing the figures. So was this 64bn in the spending reports listed along with the others above? Did the Irish people have to pay that money to the banks? Oh and last question if you don't mind: How did this affect the standard of living in Ireland?

armabelle

barneystinson wrote: »

Well it's the clear implication of a question like "how do we know "they" are telling us the truth..."; either that or arithmetic incompetence on a massive scale.

No clear implications in that at all. If I wanted to be clear in implicating that, I would do it in other ways but I don't. It could just be that I am interested in knowing perhaps?

armabelle

Geuze wrote: »

I am intrigued by your doubts about official statistics.

Rest assured that the dozens of staff in the CSO and the PER are keeping good track of all the revenue and spending.

Plus the figures are audited by the CAG.

No doubts... just asking about it as I would like to understand it better. I couldn't possibly have doubts with my level of understanding on this topic. It would be unjust.

armabelle

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

We had a figure of under 5% unemployment. It's currently at 8%. You are way overestimating the number of lazy people in this country.

From an economic point of view we want people to be smokers. The country makes a net gain from them.

The main issues with expenditure is public wages, pensions and waste in my opinion.

don't smokers spend more time in hospitals?

armabelle

Geuze wrote: »

O k so saw this after my earlier post. Thanks! So this money came out of the pocket of the Irish people and did this impact on their standard of living in any way? seems like a lot of money...

armabelle

stefanovich wrote: »

8% of people who are old or young enough to work and who are not "disabled".

Also a lot of employed people are still getting social welfare. In fact anyone with a child is.

I said we need to deal with the lazy. The needy, that's okay in my book.

1/3 is health, 1/3 is social welfare and 1/3 is everything else. This is fact.

Edit: A lot of the "social welfare" is wealth redistribution to folks who aren't so needy after all.

I have a child... why am I not "getting"?

L1011

armabelle wrote: »

O k so saw this after my earlier post. Thanks! So this money came out of the pocket of the Irish people and did this impact on their standard of living in any way? seems like a lot of money...

A number of billions have been recouped by share sales (500m PTSB, 1Bn ordinary BOI, 1.3Bn preference BOI, 1.3Bn for Irish Life), the Bank Guarantee payments (can't find the figures right now) and so on. There will be a few more billion to come (remaining PTSB, AIB shares; believe there's some stake in BOI, IBRC/NAMA may return a 'profit', etc)

The exchequer was going down the tubes even without these payments - many of which came from the NPRF rather than the exchequer - and massive tax increases and spending cuts were required anyway as the 1997-2007 administrations had cut the tax base to an unsustainable level and were reliant on payments like transaction taxes from house/car purchases to a ridiculous level.

armabelle wrote: »

I have a child... why am I not "getting"?

Childrens Allowance is a social welfare payment.

Geuze

stefanovich wrote: »

1/3 is social welfare. 1/3 is health and 1/3 everything else.

Not quite correct.

Total exp = 75 bn approx.

Social welfare = 20 bn approx

Total social benefits = 27,988 m

Health exp = 13 bn approx - way less than 1/3 of spending

Geuze

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

We had a figure of under 5% unemployment. It's currently at 8%. You are way overestimating the number of lazy people in this country.

The majority of the non-working adults supported by the State are not classified as unemployed.

Geuze

armabelle wrote: »

Ok thanks a lot for sharing the figures. So was this 64bn in the spending reports listed along with the others above? Did the Irish people have to pay that money to the banks? Oh and last question if you don't mind: How did this affect the standard of living in Ireland?

Clearly you don't or haven't lived in Ireland during the last few years.

Yes, the injections of capital into the banks were classified as some type of Govt spending in the years that it happened.

Whether we "had" to save these banks is open to debate.

Our public net liabilities grew by 65bn approx, although we acquired ownership of the banks in return.

The interest on this extra debt is a huge drain on the public finances, so yes, our standard of living has fallen as a result.

Geuze

armabelle wrote: »

O k so saw this after my earlier post. Thanks! So this money came out of the pocket of the Irish people and did this impact on their standard of living in any way? seems like a lot of money...

Not directly out of the pockets of people, no.

We sold about 20bn in assets in the NPRF, and borrowed the balance, to inject about 64-65bn into the banks.

Now, we did acquire the banks in return.

And we have sold some of these acquired assets, so there will be some returns.

But the 30bn approx put into Anglo / INBS / IBRC - that is a total loss.

So, yes, a sickening cost imposed onto the Irish population.

stefanovich

armabelle wrote:

don't smokers spend more time in hospitals?

Yes, and all the people living off supermacs and coca cola. You know, those people you see with snot nosed neglected fat kids and trolleys full of junk.

stefanovich

armabelle wrote:

I have a child... why am I not "getting"?

If you are in employment and making enough to be a net contributer then I consider it some tax back. Why not just reduce taxation?

stefanovich

Geuze wrote:

Health exp = 13 bn approx - way less than 1/3 of spending

Okay, I'll trust you there. Still the combined cost is 40 billion out of 75 with social welfare taking an extraordinary percentage.

Geuze

stefanovich wrote: »

Okay, I'll trust you there. Still the combined cost is 40 billion out of 75 with social welfare taking an extraordinary percentage.

No need to trust me, see here:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/sha/systemofhealthaccounts2013/


Yes, social welfare spending has grown a lot over last 20 years, half the pop are now recipients or beneficiaries of welfare.

Charles Babbage

Geuze wrote: »

2015 Govt exp = 75,429m, of which
wages/pensions = 19,543m

Of course this figure is exaggerated, at least as a cost against taxation, as pension contributions are deducted from the people who receive the wages, before they receive them, but this figure still includes the full cost of the pensions. Also not everyone on the public payroll is funded from the taxpayers, there are many fees etc, a driving tester or university lecturer may be largely funded from the fees paid for the service.

Pro Hoc Vice

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course this figure is exaggerated, at least as a cost against taxation, as pension contributions are deducted from the people who receive the wages, before they receive them, but this figure still includes the full cost of the pensions. Also not everyone on the public payroll is funded from the taxpayers, there are many fees etc, a driving tester or university lecturer may be largely funded from the fees paid for the service.

Another example is the Courts Service total cost is about 110 million wages is about 50 million of that inc all staff including judges total income from court stamp duty is about 50 million.

stefanovich

Pro Hoc Vice wrote:

Another example is the Courts Service total cost is about 110 million wages is about 50 million of that inc all staff including judges total income from court stamp duty is about 50 million.

Wonder how much is free legal aid for the little scrotes.

El_Duderino 09

armabelle wrote:

Great thanks. Good to see that is available. But how does the average person know how much tax is really paid and how much is really spent? Is it fair to say that we can't possibly know and all we can do is hope that the money is spent correctly and as it is reported?

armabelle wrote:

thanks for the breakdown... how do we know that those numbers are correct though? I mean they say 19 million goes to wages and pensions but who can say for sure?

The office of the comptroller and auditor general is responsible for auditing government departments and reporting to the public accounts committee ( PAC ) who then grill government officials and ensure changes are implemented.

They audit financial accounts and value for money for services. That's how you know 19 million was actually spent on wages and pensions.

El_Duderino 09

stefanovich wrote:

1/3 is social welfare. 1/3 is health and 1/3 everything else.

Does social welfare include pensions?

Pro Hoc Vice

stefanovich wrote: »

Wonder how much is free legal aid for the little scrotes.

Criminal Legal Aid is not part of the Courts service, but it amounts to 50 million a year.

Pro Hoc Vice

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Does social welfare include pensions?

Yes the old age pension is part of social welfare spending. If I remember correctly the pension bill is the biggest part of social welfare.

http://www.thejournal.ie/social-welfare-budget-1562278-Jul2014/

Geuze

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Does social welfare include pensions?

State Pensions, yes.

Occupational public service pensions, no.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

armabelle wrote: »

don't smokers spend more time in hospitals?

The post below is taken from another thread so credit goes to that poster for backing up the point with facts. But common sense should clearly say that not too many smokers live until they are 90, retirement age is 65/67, old people cost the state more than any other subset of the population.

And I like old people, it's just with more and more people living well into their retirement I wonder is it sustainable.

andrew wrote: »

Here's the figures for Finland if you're interested. In summary:

• Average total healthcare costs were €4,700 lower, since they die early
• Dying early means €126,850 less in pension costs
• Overall, smokers’ average net contribution to the public finance balance was €133 800 greater per individual compared with non-smokers