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Western Rail Corridor Phase II: Athenry to Claremorris

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  • 11-05-2016 1:52am
    #1
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Connacht Tribune wrote:
    Economic review of rail line from Athenry to Claremorris

    An independent economic study is to be carried out on the Western Rail Corridor between Athenry and Claremorris.
    The commitment was made as part of the negotiations to form a new government.
    Independent TD Seán Canney says it’s vital that investment is made in the rail network for the west.
    The Western Rail Trail Campaign is welcoming the news of a review of the costings.
    The group has long campaigned for a greenway to be established alongside the route of the disused rail track.
    Greenway campaigners feel that an independent review of the cost, which is expected to take six months, will confirm that the rail corridor is not viable as a train route.
    Spokesperson for the Western Rail Trail Campaign, Brendan Quinn says a clause trying to block plans for a greenway won’t work either.
    However, Deputy Seán Canney says the programme for government, which he partly negotiated, will give a definitive cost for Phase 2 of the Western Rail Corridor.

    http://connachttribune.ie/economic-review-of-rail-line-from-athenry-to-claremorris-022/
    Post edited by Sam Russell on
    Tagged:


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    #2
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    marno21 wrote: »
    http://connachttribune.ie/economic-review-of-rail-line-from-athenry-to-claremorris-022/

    I wonder if they can see the same lads who said phase 1 was viable . Sure don't even bother doing a review just update the old document .



    I honestly can't think of a more apporate term than Jesus wept


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    #3
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    What a complete piss take. There's already a barely justified motorway under construction on this route and now they want a railway too!

    A serious rail investment for the west would be rebuilding the Limerick-Charleville line and have a fast Cork-Limerick intercity service. This is just moronic.


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    #4
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Double tracking the existing railway between Portarlington and Athlone would deliver far reaching benefits for the west, slashing journey times to Dublin and increasing the frequency of service. A slow windy rail route between athenry and claremorris wont be of any use when there is an empty parallel motorway, after all folks in the west love their cars.


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    #5
    brandodub
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭brandodub


    It's a pity we didn't have Pascal fighting for Dart Underground
    #parishpumppolitics


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    #6
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,575 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Totally nonsensical proposal that will never happen. The population in the West is just far tool low and thinly spread to justify this. As it is, the Limerick - Galway rail line is very quiet.

    The urgent priority is to build the M20 from Cork to Limerick.


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    #7
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I wonder if they can see the same lads who said phase 1 was viable . Sure don't even bother doing a review just update the old document .

    The problem with phase I is that there's already a great bus service from Galway to Limerick and it's probably cheaper too. Trains in Ireland are far too slow, faster trains are the only solution.

    A rail going towards Sligo would only be viable if it connects to the North. A Galway - Derry (via Enniskillen/Strabane) connection would allow rail travel all the way from Malin to Mizen - well Derry to Cork anyways. It's not easy to get to Derry from anywhere except Belfast.
    brandodub wrote: »
    It's a pity we didn't have Pascal fighting for Dart Underground
    #parishpumppolitics

    We'll loan you one of our priests instead -- they got us an airport out in some field so I'm sure they'll manage to get ye the Underground. Just claim some apparitions along the proposed route.;)


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    #8
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭lostboy75


    Not sure there would be the use in this either.
    however two poster complain about the motorway.
    'There's already a barely justified motorway'
    'there is an empty parallel motorway'
    Do either if you use this road? It's along way from an empty route currently. This will greatly help those that commute in this area. It is a long way from Dublin though, so hardly a surprise people don't think there is a use for it.


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    #9
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,345 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    lostboy75 wrote: »
    Not sure there would be the use in this either.
    however two poster complain about the motorway.
    'There's already a barely justified motorway'
    'there is an empty parallel motorway'
    Do either if you use this road? It's along way from an empty route currently. This will greatly help those that commute in this area. It is a long way from Dublin though, so hardly a surprise people don't think there is a use for it.
    They're on about the under construction M17 motorway, not the M6.


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    #10
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    marno21 wrote: »
    They're on about the under construction M17 motorway, not the M6.

    I think that's what they're talking about. That road will see plenty of traffic.

    As for the railway line, anyone I know in Sligo thinks it should be a green way and there's never going to be the demand for a North South service all alone the West coast.


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    #11
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    The problem with phase I is that there's already a great bus service from Galway to Limerick and it's probably cheaper too. Trains in Ireland are far too slow, faster trains are the only solution.

    There are more bus services, they cost less than the regular train fare, they take less time, you can have a bus travelling in both directions at the same time, unlike the train; and the bus service is not stopped from operating by a bit of rain


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    #12
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭lostboy75


    marno21 wrote: »
    They're on about the under construction M17 motorway, not the M6.
    I am on about the m17 as well, I commute from up near Claremorris


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    #13
    KlausFlouride
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭KlausFlouride


    C'mon now, it's important we give a ball of tax payer money to McKinsey or KPMG to generate an "independent report" that will say "Eh, I wouldn't, but whatever ya think yourselves lads". How would TD's justify their existence otherwise?


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    #14
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    Jayop wrote: »
    As for the railway line, anyone I know in Sligo thinks it should be a green way and there's never going to be the demand for a North South service all alone the West coast.

    The West is too rural -- but how do we go about urbanising it? Ending one-off housing would be a start. There's half a million in Connacht, and you can easily draw a line down the middle of Mayo/Galway when you look at population density maps.

    Mayo has 130,000 people, of which 100,000 live in 3 of the 4 county councils (Castlebar, Ballina, Claremorris) and West Mayo (the largest constituency) is sparsely populated.

    The population has already moved toward the East of the County so population density stats are misleading. A greenway could help attract suburbs/Apartments along the route (like all the towns along the DART line), maybe in the future a train could be viable?

    There's another 110,000 in East Galway, scattered among the country side between Tuam, Athenry, Ballinasloe, Loughrea, Gort ect.. so a long term urbanization plan is needed.


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    #15
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    The West is too rural -- but how do we go about urbanising it? Ending one-off housing would be a start. There's half a million in Connacht, and you can easily draw a line down the middle of Mayo/Galway when you look at population density maps.

    Mayo has 130,000 people, of which 100,000 live in 3 of the 4 county councils (Castlebar, Ballina, Claremorris) and West Mayo (the largest constituency) is sparsely populated.

    The population has already moved toward the East of the County so population density stats are misleading. A greenway could help attract suburbs/Apartments along the route (like all the towns along the DART line), maybe in the future a train could be viable?

    There's another 110,000 in East Galway, scattered among the country side between Tuam, Athenry, Ballinasloe, Loughrea, Gort ect.. so a long term urbanization plan is needed.

    I'm not arguing that new one off housing shouldn't be kept to a minimum. I live in a smallish town in sligo that this would directly effect and I'd much rather the short and long term benefit from a Greenway at very low cost to the taxpayer rather than some potential future rail service that will in all likelihood never be needed. For transportation of people there's plenty of roads and busses. There's trains to Dublin already there. For goods the roads are being upgraded so road haulage is fine.


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    #16
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Urbanisation is the key. Whether you're talking about Dublin or the West. Ireland still doesn't get it. Its still stuck in 1950s horse trading boggernomics.

    Dublin should have a metro, but its "too expensive". Cork has the potential for light rail but that's pretty much science fiction. Yet a railway from Athenry to Claremorris is actually a live political option. Whether it happens or not is beside the point, its actually on the table and tax dollars are being spent on it. Says it all really.


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    #17
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Urbanisation is the key. Whether you're talking about Dublin or the West. Ireland still doesn't get it. Its still stuck in 1950s horse trading boggernomics.

    Dublin should have a metro, but its "too expensive". Cork has the potential for light rail but that's pretty much science fiction. Yet a railway from Athenry to Claremorris is actually a live political option. Whether it happens or not is beside the point, its actually on the table and tax dollars are being spent on it. Says it all really.

    Who wants it?


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    #18
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    The West is too rural -- but how do we go about urbanising it? Ending one-off housing would be a start. There's half a million in Connacht, and you can easily draw a line down the middle of Mayo/Galway when you look at population density maps.

    Mayo has 130,000 people, of which 100,000 live in 3 of the 4 county councils (Castlebar, Ballina, Claremorris) and West Mayo (the largest constituency) is sparsely populated.

    The population has already moved toward the East of the County so population density stats are misleading. A greenway could help attract suburbs/Apartments along the route (like all the towns along the DART line), maybe in the future a train could be viable?

    Wouldn't a train attract more people than a greenway? I'm not against the reason, it is just I see no reason why there shouldn't be both? A Sligo-Galway-Limerick would be well used, especially by students who go up and down to college every weekend.


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    #19
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Consonata wrote: »
    Wouldn't a train attract more people than a greenway? I'm not against the reason, it is just I see no reason why there shouldn't be both? A Sligo-Galway-Limerick would be well used, especially by students who go up and down to college every weekend.

    Except the train line form Limerick was closed for half the year due to some rain. So the students would get the cheaper faster, mores services per day coaches that run all year round.


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    #20
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Consonata wrote: »
    Wouldn't a train attract more people than a greenway? I'm not against the reason, it is just I see no reason why there shouldn't be both? A Sligo-Galway-Limerick would be well used, especially by students who go up and down to college every weekend.

    Except the train line form Limerick was closed for half the year due to some rain. So the students would get the cheaper faster, mores services per day coaches that run all year round.

    That speaks more to the rubbish quality of the line though , more than the quality of the service


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    #21
    KlausFlouride
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭KlausFlouride


    Consonata wrote: »
    That speaks more to the rubbish quality of the line though , more than the quality of the service

    Problem is when the usage is so low, and the need for a subvention each year (was estimated @ €2.5 million p.a. on much higher passenger numbers) it becomes a catch 22. There's no money to invest, so the service will decline further. The population density isn't there.


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    #22
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    There have been two substantial reports on the WRC completed in the last three years. One was for possible Ten-T European funding and that was crystal clear that the potential passenger numbers just aren't sufficient north of Tuam. The other report commissioned by Western Development Commission, which is openly pro-rail, on potential freight-hardly mentioned the WRC, other than to say the alignment should be protected ( a Greenway will do that perfectly). Now another report ? At what cost? It's sad to see taxpayers money wasted on a sickly mix of nostalgia and begrudgery when there are far more important issues to be addressed.


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    #23
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Honestly, I don't know anyone personally who wants to see this train run up to Sligo. Everyone (that I know) in my area wants the greenway developed.

    It's simple. Area that doesn't need a train service but does need tourism and recreation facilities.

    Just fecking sort out the really crappy dangerous parts of the N17 and there's no need for trains.


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    #24
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Consonata wrote: »
    That speaks more to the rubbish quality of the line though , more than the quality of the service

    You're the person proposing building a new line to connect to the existing unfit for purpose line with some vague notion of getting traffic in trains 2 days a week...
    Tuam had <9k last census
    Sligo had 20k

    How many of those are students? How many are travelling to Limerick?


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    #25
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Jayop wrote: »
    I think that's what they're talking about. That road will see plenty of traffic.

    There won't ever be sufficient traffic to justify the motorway spec.


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    #26
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Jayop wrote: »
    Just fecking sort out the really crappy dangerous parts of the N17 and there's no need for trains.

    Which by last current projections, looks like it will cost in the region of 400 million, twice as much as a train line with no tolling so no hope of getting any of that cash back.

    http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2014/03/28/4024584-m17-will-cost-as-much-to-drop-as-to-finish


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    #27
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The existing WRC between Ennis and Athenry is a real shame. For a slightly higher capital cost the then government could have built a modern railway with multiple passing loops on a more direct alignment (above the water table mind). People would've actually used it.


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    #28
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Consonata wrote: »
    Which by last current projections, looks like it will cost in the region of 400 million, twice as much as a train line with no tolling so no hope of getting any of that cash back.

    http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2014/03/28/4024584-m17-will-cost-as-much-to-drop-as-to-finish

    A Greenway would cost less than 10% of the cost of reinstating ( re building actually) Rail and would return multiples of what would be invested on it in a relatively short period of time. Unlike rail, the return would be wide spread over all the towns and villages and not just centred on Claremorris as a rail hub.


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    #29
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    Consonata wrote: »
    Which by last current projections, looks like it will cost in the region of 400 million, twice as much as a train line with no tolling so no hope of getting any of that cash back.

    http://www.tuamherald.ie/news/roundup/articles/2014/03/28/4024584-m17-will-cost-as-much-to-drop-as-to-finish

    A Greenway would cost less than 10% of the cost of reinstating ( re building actually) Rail and would return multiples of what would be invested on it in a relatively short period of time. Unlike rail, the return would be wide spread over all the towns and villages and not just centred on Claremorris as a rail hub.

    That's very true, I'm not opposed to building the greenway, I just think it should be done along side an actual railway. That figure I quoted is for an upgrade to the existing N17 to 400 Mil, double what a fully functioning Sligo train would cost


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    #30
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Consonata wrote: »
    That's very true, I'm not opposed to building the greenway, I just think it should be done along side an actual railway. That figure I quoted is for an upgrade to the existing N17 to 400 Mil, double what a fully functioning Sligo train would cost

    Double what the train will cost but more useful by a factor of much more than double. The majority of commuting along the n17 is shorter distances of 20 or 30 miles. A train is no use to get people along the n17 looking to go to work in sligo or claremorris.


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    #31
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Jayop wrote: »
    A train is no use to get people along the n17 looking to go to work in
    Parkmore, or Ballybane or anywhere not near Eyre Square really.


This discussion has been closed.
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