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Too much trash talk against Christianity

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Comments

  • #152
    Speedwell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    love humanity wrote: »
    So you are saying i control your reality now?

    Can you not get it through your head that neither you nor anyone else controls reality qua reality?


  • #153
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    looksee wrote: »
    I don't 'bash' people's beliefs, unless they are imposed on me without any rationale. I am prepared to 'bash' religion on that basis. If religion does not interfere with my life, fine, get on with it. You can do hill walking or train spotting or line dancing or keep fit; none of those dictates any aspect of my daily life. Same with religion, if you are doing it and not insisting it be used to make any decisions about my life, I will not bash it.

    Why about Christians in Europe who lost their jobs for wearing a crucifix at work and refusing to remove it? Would you agree with removing religious freedom such as this?


  • #154
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    Speedwell wrote: »
    Can you not get it through your head that neither you nor anyone else controls reality qua reality?

    So everything passively happens to you in your reality?


  • #155
    Speedwell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    love humanity wrote: »
    So everything passively happens to you in your reality?

    That's what happens to everyone.

    You aren't a Scientologist by any chance, are you? You are starting to sound like one.


  • #156
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    love humanity wrote: »
    Why about Christians in Europe who lost their jobs for wearing a crucifix at work and refusing to remove it? Would you agree with removing religious freedom such as this?

    I would

    I would agree with removing all religious symbols from public places. What you do in the comfort of your home or church is your business but there is no need for it in the public arena.


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  • #157
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I would

    I would agree with removing all religious symbols from public places. What you do in the comfort of your home or church is your business but there is no need for it in the public arena.


    I am an Orthodox Christian , it is part of our faith to wear a cross. Would you see it ok for me to lose my job for not taking it off?

    Would you ask a Muslim lady to remove her head covering in public?


  • #158
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    love humanity wrote: »
    I am an Orthodox Christian , it is part of our faith to wear a cross. Would you see it ok for me to lose my job for not taking it off?

    Would you ask a Muslim lady to remove her head covering in public?

    If it is company policy that no religious symbols be present then yes I would have no issue with you losing your job if you broke those rules. I have to dress smart casual for my job, do you think i should be allowed wear shorts and tshirt?


  • #159
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    If it is company policy that no religious symbols be present then yes I would have no issue with you losing your job if you broke those rules. I have to dress smart casual for my job, do you think i should be allowed wear shorts and tshirt?

    So you want people to reject tenets of faith in order to not be persecuted and for example,not lose their job? Sounds like communism. The same thing happened in the soviet union.

    Interesting fact, of all the persecuted religious people in the world today, over 80% of them are Christian.I wonder does bashing Christianity in the west add flames to the fire of those persecuted and killed for their faith in the middled east etc..


  • #160
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    love humanity wrote: »
    So you want people to reject tenets of faith in order to not be persecuted and for example,not lose their job? Sounds like communism. The same thing happened in the soviet union.

    Interesting fact, of all the persecuted religious people in the world today, over 80% of them are Christian.I wonder does bashing Christianity in the west add flames to the fire of those persecuted and killed for their faith in the middled east etc..

    No

    I'm saying that if you absolutely have to have a cross on your person due to religious grounds then that's fine. Put in in your pocket or on a chain around your neck under tshirt or blouse. No one is stopping you fromm having it with you they are just saying there is no need to flaunt it in public.


  • #161
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    No

    I'm saying that if you absolutely have to have a cross on your person due to religious grounds then that's fine. Put in in your pocket or on a chain around your neck under tshirt or blouse. No one is stopping you fromm having it with you they are just saying there is no need to flaunt it in public.

    That sounds anti Christian and could be deemed as persecution. Sounds too similar to what happened in the Soviet Union. It is very sad for me to read.


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  • #162
    luftmensch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭luftmensch


    love humanity wrote: »
    That sounds anti Christian and could be deemed as persecution. Sounds too similar to what happened in the Soviet Union. It is very sad for me to read.

    Yeah, it's exactly the same thing.


    *bangs head against table*





    If your place of work has a dress code, then as an employee you should respect it. If you feel the need to carry a cross on your person, you won't be persecuted for having it in your pocket. If you disagree with the rules and regulations of your workplace, then find another job.


  • #163
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    love humanity wrote: »
    That sounds anti Christian and could be deemed as persecution. Sounds too similar to what happened in the Soviet Union. It is very sad for me to read.

    It's not anti Christian it's anti all religions. Why would you feel the need to have the criss on show? Would you be ik with a satanist wearing a shirt showing he'll and suffering? How about a nice big pentagram stitched onto suit jacket?


  • #164
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    It's not anti Christian it's anti all religions. Why would you feel the need to have the criss on show? Would you be ik with a satanist wearing a shirt showing he'll and suffering? How about a nice big pentagram stitched onto suit jacket?

    Many Orthodox women in Russia for example, wear a crucifix openly. So you are saying Europe should be less tolerant than Russia regarding religious freedom?


  • #165
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    love humanity wrote: »
    Many Orthodox women in Russia for example, wear a crucifix openly. So you are saying Europe should be less tolerant than Russia regarding religious freedom?

    That's Russia, I'm not in Russia, what I'm saying is if a company has a rule that in their building ALL religious symbolism is to stay covered then 8 am fine with that. If someone chooses to break that rule then they deserve to be fired for it.


  • #166
    overshoot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭overshoot


    love humanity wrote: »
    That sounds anti Christian and could be deemed as persecution. Sounds too similar to what happened in the Soviet Union. It is very sad for me to read.

    thats a ridiculous argument to take to be honest. You cannot blankly put a one size fits all.
    what if the job involves machines with moving parts? a cross could get caught and you would be dead quicker than the chain could snap. Should they violate their H&S policy and let you near the machine? Even if they did, would you would be putt your own life in danger. The ban would officially read jewellery or something like that but by extension you would not be allowed a cross hanging from you.


  • #167
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    That's Russia, I'm not in Russia, what I'm saying is if a company has a rule that in their building ALL religious symbolism is to stay covered then 8 am fine with that. If someone chooses to break that rule then they deserve to be fired for it.

    So a muslim lady can't wear a hijab at work?


  • #168
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,926 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I have no problems with people wearing religious symbols if that is what they want to do, same as I have no problem with people wearing football shirts. I do object to being admitted to a hospital with large religious statues in the entrance hall and sacred heart pictures on the wards.


  • #169
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    overshoot wrote: »
    thats a ridiculous argument to take to be honest. You cannot blankly put a one size fits all.
    what if the job involves machines with moving parts? a cross could get caught and you would be dead quicker than the chain could snap. Should they violate their H&S policy and let you near the machine? Even if they did, would you would be putt your own life in danger. The ban would officially read jewellery or something like that but by extension you would not be allowed a cross hanging from you.

    But the cases didn't involve such jobs. For example one was an air hostess in England.


  • #170
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    love humanity wrote: »
    So a muslim lady can't wear a hijab at work?

    If the company states this then no, what part of "I have no issue with a company having these rules" are you having difficulty with?


  • #171
    solodeogloria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭solodeogloria


    Good afternoon!

    For the record I agree with the principle that no firm is required to allow people to wear religious symbols and that the State does have the liberty to ask people not to wear them. For example in hospitals.

    Where it is possible I think they should be accommodated equally. And yes, that does mean that the Satanist should be allowed to wear a pentagram.

    I think all should be treated equally under the law of the land and this isn't non-Christian.

    I am an evangelical Christian but I am also a secularist in so far as I agree that no religion or philosophical system should be privileged under the law.

    Much thanks in the Lord Jesus Christ,
    solodeogloria


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  • #172
    luftmensch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭luftmensch


    love humanity wrote: »
    But the cases didn't involve such jobs. For example one was an air hostess in England.

    Air hostesses are required to wear a uniform. If jewellery or religious icons aren't part of the uniform, then it isn't unreasonable to remove it.


  • #173
    Speedwell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    love humanity wrote: »
    So a muslim lady can't wear a hijab at work?

    I worked for a multinational oil engineering firm for 15 years. As you can imagine in a business that works with folks in countries from Colombia to South Africa to Nigeria to Russia to Abu Dhabi, religion is strictly forbidden from being a subject of workplace discussion or policy. That's because religion is divisive and crazy-making. They treated the Jehovah's Witness secretary in West Texas who flatly refused to help me because I am an atheist exactly the same as they treated the son of an imam in Dubai who refused to attend my training class because I am a woman (spoiler: fired on the spot). It is just how decent societies need to behave if they are to remain decent.


  • #174
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    love humanity wrote: »
    But the cases didn't involve such jobs. For example one was an air hostess in England.

    She wasn't an air hostess she was a checkin clerk.

    What do you think of the case if Shirley Chaplain a nurse from Exeter who was transferred to a desk job over her refusal to remove a cross?


  • #175
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    If the company states this then no, what part of "I have no issue with a company having these rules" are you having difficulty with?

    Muslim women are not allowed to remove the hijab in public. This would mean they cannot enter the work place according to your logic. By removing it, to them, it is like rejecting their faith. So in your world, religious people have to hide and reject their faith in public?


  • #176
    Speedwell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    She wasn't an air hostess she was a checkin clerk.

    What do you think of the case if Shirley Chaplain a nurse from Exeter who was transferred to a desk job over her refusal to remove a cross?

    Obviously unfit to work with the public if she wanted to treat her job as a pulpit.


  • #177
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    love humanity wrote: »
    Muslim women are not allowed to remove the hijab in public. This would mean they cannot enter the work place according to your logic. By removing it, to them, it is like rejecting their faith. So in your world, religious people have to hide and reject their faith in public?

    A workplace is not a public place it's private property. If they don't like the company rules then don't apply for a job there.


  • #178
    love humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭love humanity


    Speedwell wrote: »
    Obviously unfit to work with the public if she wanted to treat her job as a pulpit.

    In that case we must be intolerant of intolerant right wing atheists/ secularists dictating to religious people how to live their lives.


  • #179
    Speedwell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    A workplace is not a public place it's private property. If they don't like the company rules then don't apply for a job there.

    On the one hand, it is fine to object to abusive and unnecessary rules that serve no useful purpose.

    On the other hand, rules that prevent abuse and unnecessary and unproductive treatment at work, rules that serve a useful purpose, need to be obeyed just as much as do rules saying you can't come to work drunk or screw the secretary.


  • #180
    overshoot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭overshoot


    love humanity wrote: »
    But the cases didn't involve such jobs. For example one was an air hostess in England.

    are you saying no employees of an airline would be exposed to moving parts? Conveyor belts for example when it comes to a hostess? But surely it would be 'persecution' to ban one set of employees and not another within one company?

    Regardless the point raised just read a ban is persecution/communist. So should a company discard its own H&S policy and the safety of its employees so a person can wear a religious item?


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  • #181
    Speedwell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    love humanity wrote: »
    In that case we must be intolerant of intolerant right wing atheists/ secularists dictating to religious people how to live their lives.

    For real? If you want to live in the world, sweetie, you are going to have to follow the rules of decent functioning society. If you don't want to live in the world, don't let the door hit you in the arse.


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