What would a Gaelic Ireland look like?

Skylinehead · 13-05-2016 05:14PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

People are still peddling this nonsense?

Yeah, so De Valera made a spectacularly ill-judged move there. Now explain the intelligence and weather reports the Irish State gave to the British (IRA are irrelevant here), the air corridors we opened to them for access to the North Atlantic, letting Allied airmen "sneak" over the border to NI while we interned Germans in the Curragh?

Ill-informed crap.

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 05:22PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

I don't think their would be many Mexicans who would advocate a revival of Aztec (or other indigenous Mesoamerican cultures) but they certainly do preserve what they have and are justifiably very proud of it

It's the same logic though. Preserve Irish sure, but try make it the dominant language again?

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 05:24PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

People are still peddling this nonsense?

Yeah, so De Valera made a spectacularly ill-judged move there. Now explain the intelligence and weather reports the Irish State gave to the British (IRA are irrelevant here), the air corridors we opened to them for access to the North Atlantic, letting Allied airmen "sneak" over the border to NI while we interned Germans in the Curragh?

Ill-informed crap.

Why should it need explaining? Explain our neutrality in the face of a racist totalitarian regime potentially conquering Europe.

We didn't know about the full horror of the Holocaust but we know their racial ideology, their totalitarianism, their motivations for attacking Eastern Europe and the anti semitism Jews were fleeing from.

It's to our eternal shame that we werent in Normandy.

Sweetemotion · 13-05-2016 05:30PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why should it need explaining? Explain our neutrality in the face of a racist totalitarian regime potentially conquering Europe.

We didn't know about the full horror of the Holocaust but we know their racial ideology, their totalitarianism, their motivations for attacking Eastern Europe and the anti semitism Jews were fleeing from.

It's to our eternal shame that we werent in Normandy.

Go away out of that. Our eternal shame? What utter nonsense...

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 05:40PM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Go away out of that. Our eternal shame? What utter nonsense...

Yolu dont agree?

Was ignoring the racist, militaristic, nationalistic, anti Semite, homophobic, genocidal neighbouring nation intent on dominating the continent and liquidating Eastern Europe a source of pride for you?

Pat Mustard · 13-05-2016 05:41PM

The other Paths to Freedom had a vision of Gaelic Ireland too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10zkPoN_plw

Skylinehead · 13-05-2016 05:42PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why should it need explaining? Explain our neutrality in the face of a racist totalitarian regime potentially conquering Europe.

We didn't know about the full horror of the Holocaust but we know their racial ideology, their totalitarianism, their motivations for attacking Eastern Europe and the anti semitism Jews were fleeing from.

It's to our eternal shame that we werent in Normandy.

In case you hadn't noticed, we had a few problems with Britain in the first half of the 20th century...going to war with them wasn't exactly easy (or indeed possible).

We did know about the Nazis racial ideology, but I find it curious that you don't hold the same thoughts with regard to Churchill. He was a racist too.

Eternal shame, get out of that.

And in any case, you seem to have completely misinterpreted what my post was about. We didn't help the Nazis, we did help the Allies, in many ways.

Sweetemotion · 13-05-2016 05:48PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yolu dont agree?

Was ignoring the racist, militaristic, nationalistic, anti Semite, homophobic, genocidal neighbouring nation intent on dominating the continent and liquidating Eastern Europe a source of pride for you?

I can live with it, better than having grave yards full off the thousands who would have died.

Why should we have gotten involved? Is it because 70 odd years later someone on the Internet felt ashamed?

You're one of the biggest bigots on boards and you just see this as another stick to hit the Irish with.

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 05:50PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

In case you hadn't noticed, we had a few problems with Britain in the first half of the 20th century...going to war with them wasn't exactly easy (or indeed possible).

We did know about the Nazis racial ideology, but I find it curious that you don't hold the same thoughts with regard to Churchill. He was a racist too.

Eternal shame, get out of that.

And in any case, you seem to have completely misinterpreted what my post was about. We didn't help the Nazis, we did help the Allies, in many ways.

Why wasn't it possible to help Britain? Were the Irish so bigoted they couldn't put their hatred aside for the greater good?

Did Churchill speak to crowds of thousands about the need to liquidate a racial group? Did etnic ghottos that had existed for centuries rapidly grow in size and consolidate under Churchill only to disappear? Going on trains to Work Camps in the East? Did Churchill make ethnic groups wear identifying clothing so they could be discriminated against?
Equilating Churchill and Hitler ad both racist is like saying the sun and a volcano are both hot.

You don't consider it shameful? Why?

We didn't help them enough. We should have been at Normandy.

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 05:53PM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I can live with it, better than having grave yards full off the thousands who would have died.

Why should we have gotten involved? Is it because 70 odd years later someone on the Internet felt ashamed?

You're one of the biggest bigots on boards and you just see this as another stick to hit the Irish with.

Thankfully most Irish don't have such a short sighted view. Had the Americans taken the same attitude as you God knows the kind of Europe we would live in.

Lurkio · 13-05-2016 05:53PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yolu dont agree?

Was ignoring the racist, militaristic, nationalistic, anti Semite, homophobic, genocidal neighbouring nation intent on dominating the continent and liquidating Eastern Europe a source of pride for you?

No. Is ignoring the racist miltarisitic anti-semetic genocidal British empire that dominated large parts of the world and was intent on dominating more a source of pride for you? Because not once have you ever condemned them.

Lurkio · 13-05-2016 05:54PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why wasn't it possible to help Britain? ..........

We didn't help the Brits???? O god no.....

*tear.....

Sweetemotion · 13-05-2016 05:54PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Thankfully most Irish don't have such a short sighted view. Had the Americans taken the same attitude as you God knows the kind of Europe we woild live in.

Thank God for Russia.

K-9 · 13-05-2016 05:55PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why should it need explaining? Explain our neutrality in the face of a racist totalitarian regime potentially conquering Europe.

We didn't know about the full horror of the Holocaust but we know their racial ideology, their totalitarianism, their motivations for attacking Eastern Europe and the anti semitism Jews were fleeing from.

It's to our eternal shame that we werent in Normandy.

No, it's to our credit that as a neutral country we resisted bullying pressure from Britain and the US. Having said we should have took more Jewish refugees in.

We took 500 in from Hungary in the 50's and it seemed nobody wanted them so maybe for the best.

Skylinehead · 13-05-2016 05:56PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why wasn't it possible to help Britain? Were the Irish so bigoted they couldn't put their hatred aside for the greater good?

Did Churchill speak to crowds of thousands about the need to liquidate a racial group? Did etnic ghottos that had existed for centuries rapidly grow in size and consolidate under Churchill only to disappear? Going on trains to Work Camps in the East? Did Churchill make ethnic groups wear identifying clothing so they could be discriminated against?
Equilating Churchill and Hitler ad both racist is like saying the sun and a volcano are both hot.

You don't consider it shameful? Why?

We didn't help them enough. We should have been at Normandy.

Why wasn't it possible to go to war with the nation that oppressed our country and murdered our people in the hundreds of thousands, that we only gained independence from two decades before? Let me get back to you on that one.

I'm not equating the two, of course that would be stupid. But we didn't know about the Holocaust, so there wouldn't be that much difference from Ireland's point of view. Especially given Churchills view towards us in the War of Independence.

I don't consider it shameful because of factors that you seem to be completely overlooking, and purposely so. To a lot of Irish, Britain was still the enemy, much moreso than a dictator in Central Europe.

You seem to really want to ignore the Ireland-Britain relationship, obviously because it doesn't suit your argument.

CrabRevolution · 13-05-2016 05:58PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Yup, pretty much.

An earlier revival, much of it down to Sir Walter Scott's imagining of an idealised Scotland, but one tied with Britain as opposed to being independent.

I think you'd be struggling to find something truly Gaelic Irish existing today that wasn't influenced, has not got an equivalent or wasn't an import from somewhere else.

You could say that about anything in any culture though really.

Bongalongherb · 13-05-2016 06:00PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's the same logic though. Preserve Irish sure, but try make it the dominant language again?

The dominant language will not be Irish or English, it's going to be this - below in 20 years, we're all fcuked. The Germans, working a finger-puzzle, and every finger of the highness is inside your country.

Seriously, is this really what you folk want ?. Well I'm out. Insanity. Headbangers they are. Don't ever underestimate the Germans. Whackos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU462Ih3Oag

Arsemageddon · 13-05-2016 06:08PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's the same logic though. Preserve Irish sure, but try make it the dominant language again?

A strawman argument, There are only a small handful of people who want Irish to become the primary language of the state. Your hostility to the Irish language is evident from other threads and I can't be arsed rehashing the same old arguments again.

Language is not the sole facet of national culture.

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 06:10PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

A strawman argument, There are only a small handful of people who want Irish to become the primary language of the state. Your hostility to the Irish language is evident from other threads and I can't be arsed rehashing the same old arguments again.

Language is not the sole facet of national culture.

Agreed.

Shep_Dog · 13-05-2016 06:20PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

A strawman argument, There are only a small handful of people who want Irish to become the primary language of the state.

That would be 'Conradh na Geailge', an organisation dedicated to making Irish the primary language not just in the state but in all of Ireland. Last time I checked, these straw men were tapping the government fot a lot of money.

In Collin's and de Valera's new Ireland, membership would be essential to achieve advancement. A bit like it being career enhancing to be in th Communist Party if you live in North Korea.

'Let's make Ireland Great Again'

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 06:26PM

Shep_Dog wrote: »

Arsemageddon wrote: »

A strawman argument, There are only a small handful of people who want Irish to become the primary language of the state. /QUOTE]That would be 'Conradh na Geailge', an organisation dedicated to making Irish the primary language not just in the state but in all of Ireland.

In Collin's and de Valera's new Ireland, membership would be essential to achieve advancement. A bit like it being career enhancing to be in th Communist Party if you live in North Korea.

'Let's make Ireland Great Again'

Conradh are at the end of the scale, I wouldn't equate them with the majority.

Shep_Dog · 13-05-2016 06:30PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Cobradh are at the end of the scale, I wouldn't equate them with the majority.

They claim to be the democratic forum of all Irish speakers and to speak for all of them. They operate under a number of aliases and keep quiet about the 'main aim' (of reinstating Irish....) as it would freak the general public who join for the music and dancing.

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 06:33PM

Shep_Dog wrote: »

They claim to be the democratic forum of all Irish speakers and to speak for all of them. They operate under a number of aliases and keep quiet about the 'main aim' (of reinstating Irish....) as it would freak the general public who join for the music and dancing.

Lots of lobby groups claim lots of things, their claims and their aims are the least of my worries. İ'm far more concerned with hoş thry source their funding.

Edgarfrndly · 13-05-2016 06:34PM

Shep_Dog wrote: »

That would be 'Conradh na Geailge', an organisation dedicated to making Irish the primary language not just in the state but in all of Ireland. Last time I checked, these straw men were tapping the government fot a lot of money.

I volunteered for over a decade for Conradh na Gaeilge. Never once tapped anyone for money. Setup and hosted events off my own back. The only thing I recall getting in all those years was a couple of t-shirts for a quiz night one year.

Conradh na Gaeilge do incredible work for the Irish language. Any funding they get is well deserved, as it actually goes into promoting the language through events, festivities, classes, etc..

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 06:38PM

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

I volunteered for over a decade for Conradh na Gaeilge. Never once tapped anyone for money. Setup and hosted events off my own back. The only thing I recall getting in all those years was a couple of t-shirts for a quiz night one year.

Conradh na Gaeilge do incredible work for the Irish language. Any funding they get is well deserved, as it actually goes into promoting the language through events, festivities, classes, etc..

You would have better insight than most. How does Conradh source its funding? That building on Harcourt srt alone can't have been cheap. How do they pay their staff and organize activities?

Arsemageddon · 13-05-2016 06:38PM

Shep_Dog wrote: »

That would be 'Conradh na Geailge', an organisation dedicated to making Irish the primary language not just in the state but in all of Ireland. Last time I checked, these straw men were tapping the government fot a lot of money.

In Collin's and de Valera's new Ireland, membership would be essential to achieve advancement. A bit like it being career enhancing to be in th Communist Party if you live in North Korea.

'Let's make Ireland Great Again'

......and yet nothing like this ever came close to happening.

Complete hyperbole.

Edgarfrndly · 13-05-2016 06:42PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You would have better insight than most. How does Cinradh source its funding? That building on Harcourt srt alone can't have been cheap. How do they pay their staff and organize activities?

I'm not privy to their books, but I have fundraised in the past. They host fundraisers across the country, and obviously get some form of assistance from the state. Funds from fundraisers iare invested into the local cumann, and the rest back into the main office.

The overwhelming majority of Conradh activists are not paid. There's only a handful of paid staff AFAIK. Most of us helped out for a genuine love of the language.

Wibbs · 13-05-2016 06:43PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's to our eternal shame that we werent in Normandy.

It's a pity your grasp on facts is a tad limited on top of everything else. The guts of 100,000 Irishmen from both north and south of the border were in the British army alone in WW2. That's not including those in the RAF and RN. Never mind those who joined up with the Americans. There were quite the number of Irishmen in Normandy and elsewhere. I'm well aware of it because relatives of mine were among them. You also seem blissfully forgetful or ignorant that enough Irish blood had been spilled in living memory in the killing fields of the Great War beforehand. Never mind those that died in the countless wars and skirmishes of the British empire before that. How many do you want slaughtered before we get over the "shame"? Is there a set shame free number?

Don't get me started on the DeValera condolence stuff. And I always thought DeV a twat and crooked twat of the highest order, but that reference is beyond facile at this stage.

Iwasfrozen · 13-05-2016 06:47PM

Wibbs wrote: »

It's a pity your grasp on facts is a tad limited on top of everything else. The guts of 100,000 Irishmen from both north and south of the border were in the British army alone in WW2. That's not including those in the RAF and RN. Never mind those who joined up with the Americans. There were quite the number of Irishmen in Normandy and elsewhere. I'm well aware of it because relatives of mine were among them. You also seem blissfully forgetful or ignorant that enough Irish blood had been spilled in living memory in the killing fields of the Great War beforehand. Never mind those that died in the countless wars and skirmishes of the British empire before that. How many do you want slaughtered before we get over the "shame"? Is there a set shame free number?

Don't get me started on the DeValera condolence stuff. And I always thought DeV a twat and crooked twat of the highest order, but that reference is beyond facile at this stage.

Excuse me? Please point out in my post where I said Irish people didn't fight in other nation's armies or retract that point.

Shep_Dog · 13-05-2016 06:52PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

......and yet nothing like this ever came close to happening.
Complete hyperbole.

Indeed, but, what if Collins survived the Civil War and managed to implement his dream of a Gaelic Ireland on modern terms, what would that actually entail?

What would a Gaelic Ireland look like?

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