What to do when you witness racism?

FTA69 wrote: »

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't think so, in Ireland anyway. It's more the "underclass" who have a problem because they think they're taking all the stuff they should be entitled to. Immigrants taking low skilled jobs or even benefits wont really have any impact on a well off person, but someone less well off could lay the blame for their problems on outsiders.

Nonsense. I worked as a bouncer in Ireland for years and the despicable sh*te I've seen of people of all classes come out with would make anyone cringe. I've seen private-school educated rugger buggers stand outside Fast Als in Cork and pull shanty eyed faces at the Chinese lad behind the counter; not to mention some of the absolute putrid rubbish some door and bar staff were subjected to by well-heeled people in professional jobs who were more than capable of pouring out streams of invective about "stupid f*cking Poles" or "black bastards" while wound up about something and full of drink. A lot of the more thicker stuff I've heard in Ireland came from strong farmer types as well who would lose their f*cking life if their child or brother or whatever married someone of a different race.

Racism in Ireland isn't just about Anto from the flats and you're engaging in a different sort of prejudice yourself if you think it is.

The fact your mention "stupid poles" who are culturally and physically pretty similar to us in your post indicates your conflating anti-migrant/xenophobic and class based predjucice as racism.
Those anti-islam protests in Dublin had a Eastern-Europeans in them, the violent counter protesters were mainly white irish, does that mean the counter protesters are the racists?
People label anything as racist because it carries more weight, if a black lad for from the flats in Peckham and a white English guy from the same area get sneered at by some city boy is either one worse, impact is the same and the reasoning behind it is the same?

Drunk Irish scumbag ranting on the bus right now.

Black bus driver not saying a word.

The **** they put up with.

FTA69 wrote: »

RDM_83 again wrote: »

The fact your mention "stupid poles" who are culturally and physically pretty similar to us in your post indicates your conflating anti-migrant/xenophobic and class based predjucice as racism.
Those anti-islam protests in Dublin had a Eastern-Europeans in them, the violent counter protesters were mainly white irish, does that mean the counter protesters are the racists?
People label anything as racist because it carries more weight, if a black lad for from the flats in Peckham and a white English guy from the same area get sneered at by some city boy is either one worse, impact is the same and the reasoning behind it is the same?

First of all racism includes discrimination based on ethnicity and nationality. According to the UN:

"Article 1 of the Convention defines "racial discrimination" as:


...any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[23]"

So yes, an Irish person calling someone a stupid Pole or telling someone f*ck off back to Lithuania etc etc is racism. By your logic calling someone a Paki etc isn't racism as Indians etc are Caucasians like us. You can engage in semantical cant around the word racism, but at the end of the day the examples I gave above are driven by the same emotion i.e. prejudice and often hate.

Likewise, forms of prejudice along class, national and ethnic lines are often linked and related. For instance much of the anti-Irish sentiment in Britain was linked with the fact that Irish people tended to occupy a lower class economically and were limited to certain jobs which traditionally had less status.

Thats an all encompassing definition

FTA69 wrote: »

RDM_83 again wrote: »

The fact your mention "stupid poles" who are culturally and physically pretty similar to us in your post indicates your conflating anti-migrant/xenophobic and class based predjucice as racism.
Those anti-islam protests in Dublin had a Eastern-Europeans in them, the violent counter protesters were mainly white irish, does that mean the counter protesters are the racists?
People label anything as racist because it carries more weight, if a black lad for from the flats in Peckham and a white English guy from the same area get sneered at by some city boy is either one worse, impact is the same and the reasoning behind it is the same?

First of all racism includes discrimination based on ethnicity and nationality. According to the UN:

"Article 1 of the Convention defines "racial discrimination" as:


...any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[23]"

So yes, an Irish person calling someone a stupid Pole or telling someone f*ck off back to Lithuania etc etc is racism. By your logic calling someone a Paki etc isn't racism as Indians etc are Caucasians like us. You can engage in semantical cant around the word racism, but at the end of the day the examples I gave above are driven by the same emotion i.e. prejudice and often hate.

Likewise, forms of prejudice along class, national and ethnic lines are often linked and related. For instance much of the anti-Irish sentiment in Britain was linked with the fact that Irish people tended to occupy a lower class economically and were limited to certain jobs which traditionally had less status.

Thats a massively all encompassing term that means basically anything can be considered "Racism" and its meant to be used in a specific context in terms of the actions of states, it doesn't make sense to use this definition to refer to individual actions, if I hate and discriminate against French people for example it would be racism according to that definition.

Its not a good idea to rely on UN statements for very much as its so politically driven, there is always a push so that the statement or definition is so wide that it can never be applied because its everybody could be accused of it, or conversely so narrow that it can never be used. For example a quick google tells me that this definition was reached because the USSR and the USA were respectively squabling about Zionism/Anti-Semitism and anti-Religious discrimination clauses.

If you really think thats a good idea to rely on the UN for this does that mean its ok for me to say X,Y and Z are not genocide because they do not fit the UN definition. Its a dangerous idea to rely on an institution like the UN to inform what you believe (I mean look at that beacon of Human Rights Saudi Arabia :ermm: )

In relation to the Pakistani thing a whole lot of the ideas that formed Racism would have classed them as a different "race" or at least any lower class sub continental. Why calling somebody Pakis is racist is a question too, it just means Punjab Afghanistan Kashmir and Sindh (I understand the intent but as insult it makes little sense to me)