Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

nop98 wrote: »

Hey babaracus -

This is not a stupid question at all! (There are no stupid questions on this thread). In fact, this is an excellent question.

I'll be talking about paces, etc, more in a post over the weekend. But to address your specific question, there's a few things to keep in mind:

1> The LSRs are part of an overall program. When you run 4-5 times a week, you simply can't afford to run your long runs hard. You will not have recovered (sufficiently) in time when the next run on the schedule comes around. In contrast, during race-day, you can empty (and will empty) the tank as believe me, you won't be running in the days after it.
2> A main goal of LSRs is to simply adapt your body to long hours of running. Not necessarily long hours of hard running. You need to practice the time on your feet, the constant pounding on your knees and hips, the unexpected side-effects of constantly rubbing your limbs together, etc. You will be hurting in places you didn't even know would hurt.
3> Many plans (HHN1 is an exception) including the boards plan contain runs at PMP pace. It starts with runs like "5 miles with the middle 3 at PMP". This will go up to 11 miles, with 9 at PMP. This is where you try yourself over a long distance, at PMP.
4> Race day is magic. The buzz, the other competitors, the crows, all will help push you along.

Go ahead and try your 18 miler at > 6 min/km - and let us know how you get on. Out of interest, what does your next few weeks look like in terms of LSRs?

Thanks nop and also spaceylou for their post.
This week its 18, then step back next week to 13, then 19, 12, 20, 12, 8 and then 2 the day before. Only 7 weeks to go :eek:

paddydriver wrote: »

Why are you running this marathon? - Every year I go to see the marathon pass up Roebuck Rd and down Fosters Avenue, usually to see friends or family running. Every year I dream of having my 3 kids there to cheer me on and be able to stop and give them a hug.. but maybe they would be at finish this year;) Overall though its something I would love to achieve and be able to do.

That is the loveliest.

Utah wrote: »

Thanks nop.

Booked in to Total Physio tomorrow.

Not sure what advice has been given on here already but I suffered from shin splints when I first started running a few years ago. In my case it was down to a slight over extension in my stride in that my foot was landing too far forward in relation to my knee. It wAs landing slightly ahead of my knee rather that under it. I corrected this and brought in a routine of regular calf stretching every morning for a number of months. Still do the morning calf stretches but not as frequently and TW I haven't had any recurrence.

Good luck with getting it sorted.

Murph_D wrote: »

No, not flopping about. You don't say what your 5k pace is but if you go,to a calculator like this one and put in your time it will give you a suggested range of training paces. Most of your runs will be at easy pace, and your longer runs easier again (usually around 10-20 percent slower than your marathon pace). If this is your first marathon, the first priority is getting your body accustomed to endurance, and that often means going slower than you think you should be going. Plug in the numbers and start from there, or post back your times and someone will advise you.

The Black Oil wrote: »

Thank you, and for that link.

5Km
23:20
7:31

Mar
3:47:21
8:41

GP said she was happy for me to start running again, but to run a quarter of my normal distance for a while. So, erm 1.25km. Better to ease back into it, really.

Murph_D wrote: »

Ok TBO you're halfway there.;) So what would you reckon your easy and long run paces will be?

The Black Oil wrote: »

Honestly, I've no idea. I'm somewhat illiterate on that, tbh. If I looked at my Garmin stats would it help to figure this out?

The first novice to fill in the blank for TBO gets the privilege of being the first Teacher's pet 2016......... and like DCM 2016 for your all. There will only be a one first so no one can take it away from you

Murph_D wrote: »

No, not flopping about. You don't say what your 5k pace is but if you go,to a calculator like this one and put in your time it will give you a suggested range of training paces.

Murph_D wrote: »

If you enter your race pace in the Macmillan calculator then click on the tab that says "Training Paces" you'll see that a 23:20 5k runner should be doing easy runs in the 8:37-9:36 per mile range, and long runs a little slower at 8:38-9:58. Theoretically this will build you towards a goal marathon pace of around 3:50, although most first timers have difficulty achieving the predicted Macmillan marathon time so it's probably wise to aim for a slower time. Some will say just try to get through the distance and enjoy your first marathon but that's not the way I approached it myself a few years back (although I still failed to hit the target). Best of luck with it.

Somewhat confused by the calculator, would it not need to have a know and individuals max heart rate to give accurate training paces?

It tells me my Easy Runs should be from 8:55 - 9:54 pace and 60-85% of My Max HR.

I currently run my easy runs by heart rate and at 60% of my max HR my pace is about 10:50 pace . I currently would not find running at 8:55 as easy pace.

Murph_D wrote: »

Hi there T,

It does know your max HR - it's 100 percent! It's all relative, that's why it gives you a percentage and not a bpm figure.

Macmillan gives a pretty wide range for easy (and long) runs alright, and that's appropriate given you will feel different on different days, based on factors like health, sleep, tiredness, stress, not to mention the variations of your training routes, etc. I don't know a lot about HR training so I'll defer to those who do, but the first thing I would ask is, are you sure of your max HR, as FD asked above?

My own recollection is that running at the fast end of your "Easy" range can be challenging enough for the first few years while you are building up your mileage. I certainly found that to be the case, and still do depending on the above factors! I generally aim for the middle of the range, or lower. Easy days easy, and all that.

All the best with the training.

Cheers , I'm Pretty sure my Max HR is reasonably accurate, I could run at the paces on the calculator but to do so would be contradictory to my current understanding of what easy running should be.

The calculator indicates at 60% of my max hr I should be running at 9.54 pace in reality at 60% of my max hr I am running a minute a mile slower than that.

I would be interested in seeing what those more experienced with training by heart rate have to say.

Firedance wrote: »

Sorry if you've said already T but what race time did you use for the calculator and what's your max HR?

Hi FD My Max Hr is 174 which I got from running a test similar to the one you posted above a while ago which isn't too far off using the 220 minus my age calculation that is sometimes used. I Use a heart monitor on all my runs and my hr has alway been under that except for the odd spike , so i think its not a million miles off if its off at all.

I used my 24.14 5k time on the calculator.

Hello!

I followed this thread religiously last year, and was delighted to see it pop up again this week - even more so seeing that it's under the stewardship of nop98.

Unfortunately for me, I seem to have picked the wrong marathon. I entered the ballot for Berlin on a whim, and was surprised to be selected.

Anyway, even though I'm not doing DCM this year, I'm absolutely a marathon novice, so... can I play too?

For a bit of background - I'm 30, male, from Cork, and have been living in merry olde Oxford, England for the last two years. I used to think I had a fairly neutral accent, but most people react like I've just emerged from a bog whenever I speak. Apart from that, I really like it here, and it's a great place for running.

I did C25k last January, having not really exercised since school, and haven't looked back since. I have a training log over here.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

I've only done a handful of proper races, but here are my PBs:

5k - March 2016 - 23:41 (This was the second half of the 10k race below. I haven't raced a 5k in a good while, but I'm doing one next week!)
10k - March 2016 - 48:20
Half - April 2016 - 1:49:36

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

No.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

I usually run 5 days a week. Generally a tempo or interval session, a race pace session depending on what I'm training for, a long run, and two short recovery runs.

My long run peaked at 15 miles before the half marathon in April, but 10 miles is the farthest I've gone since.

I don't do any cross-training, unless you count going for a walk the odd lunchtime. I do some stretching and foam-rolling when I feel I need it.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

I've had "sub-4 marathon" in my head for ages now, so it's definitely the dream time and I think I'm in a position now where it's a fairly realistic time as well. I'll definitely train towards it, and see what happens.

Having said that, finishing the marathon will be more than enough of a consolation prize if I fall short of the time.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

I think I could physically train 6 days, maybe even 7, but I don't think I'd be up to that mentally. I'd prefer to keep it at 5 for now.

I'm going with the BAA Level 2 plan, which is a 22-week plan. I had already started a 5k plan by the time I settled on this, so I'm going to finish that first and jump in at week 4 on 16th May, following it for the remaining 19 weeks. My current mileage matches up very nicely with the first few weeks of it anyway.

Might need to adjust the plan a bit to allow for a couple of races I want to do - a 10k in July and Half in August, but will do my best to follow it closely apart from that.

Why are you running this marathon?

Being honest, running a marathon has never been a bucket-list goal or anything like that - it just seemed like the next logical step in my running career. Now that I'm signed up though, it feels like the most important thing in the world.

I had originally planned on doing DCM this year, and was only really chancing my arm when I entered the ballot for Berlin. Part of me is disappointed not to be doing my first marathon on home soil, but Berlin is a city that means an awful lot to me personally, and it feels right to be running my first marathon there.