We should take the cyclists out and shoot them

tomasrojo · 05-05-2016 10:42AM

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Item coming up on cycling in Dublin on Sean o Rourke programme

The intro isint too encouraging.

Such and such (didn't catch his name) takes his life into his hands and cycles around Dublin.

Seán O'Rourke apparently strongly approves of people wearing hi-viz for a walk around the park (Operation Transformation). I suspect he harbours neurotic tendencies.

Peterx · 05-05-2016 10:43AM

ditto item coming up on Newstalk now

Sam Kade · 05-05-2016 10:43AM

Eamonnator wrote: »

Michael O' Leary Having a bit of a rant at cyclists.
He seems to miss the point, that if more people cycled, the knock on effect would be, that there'd be more space for him to park his f***ing car.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/we-should-take-the-cyclists-out-and-shoot-them-ryanairs-michael-oleary-on-the-warpath-as-cyclists-and-dublin-city-council-get-a-roasting-34684579.html

If he wants to shoot anyone he could start with the scumbags, they are a drain on society and never give anything towards it apart from lining the pockets of the justice system.

ThisRegard · 05-05-2016 10:50AM

Item on Radio 1 starting now, opening up with the declaration that cycling deaths and injuries have increased over the last 10 years to go along with the increase in cycling. The reporter has gone out with a friend who is on "one of those fancy racing" type bikes.

tomasrojo · 05-05-2016 10:55AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Item on Radio 1 starting now, opening up with the declaration that cycling deaths and injuries have increased over the last 10 years to go along with the increase in cycling. The reporter has gone out with a friend who is on "one of those fancy racing" type bikes.

The meme that won't die.

beauf · 05-05-2016 10:58AM

Roadhawk wrote: »

...where is the consideration for the retail economy in Dublin City Center? how many cyclist do you see carrying bags home after a nice day shopping? I personally cant recall any. It is a backward cycle to remove access to motorists from a city.....

Maybe you could let us know why you think this?

...Public transport users and walkers ‘spend most in Dublin shops’
Car-based shoppers account for only €1 in every €5 spent in city, NTA research finds....

“It is the public transport, walking and cycling communities that deliver the strongest cash injection to the city’s economy as a whole. After all, they account for over 80per cent of all visitors, and we will continue to put these people at the centre of our transport planning – for the long-term economic benefit of the city.”

ThisRegard · 05-05-2016 10:58AM

Ticking all the Cyclist bingo boxes from a taxi driver here, complaining going through red lights, not wearing helmets, wearing earphones, passing on the outside.

Ruairi (Rory?) the cyclist though is a pretty good spokesman for a cyclists.

tomasrojo · 05-05-2016 11:01AM

The mainstream media very rarely depicts cycling in any considered way, or in a way that would be broadly recognisable by anyone who does it regularly.

One great benefit of podcasts is I rarely have to listen to Irish domestic radio anymore.

Leroy42 · 05-05-2016 11:01AM

Not listening to either show but it always amazes me that the bike, and cycling in general, is treated in the media as some form as weird, possibly foreign, new fangled form of transport up there with the C5, Wheelies runners and Segways.

There is always the clip about the guy with the fast racing type bike, with the dropped handlebars and the go faster stripes. Golly, when did those come out?

It is almost as if they think the car was invented first and having to accommodate the cyclist, rather than the other way around.

Seaswimmer · 05-05-2016 11:02AM

that wasn't as bad as I thought.

I though he explained the helmet rationale and the rented bikes issue quite well at the end..

tomasrojo · 05-05-2016 11:06AM

beauf wrote: »

Maybe you could let us know why you think this?

Do you have a link for that? (I don't doubt it; I've read something very similar before.)

Jawgap · 05-05-2016 11:31AM

Roadhawk wrote: »

Out of the entire post thats what you picked up on???

When i refer to a cyclist as being "hardcore" I mean a daily cyclists whos main or only mode of transport is a bike. Who is aware of their entitlements of being a road user (and not afraid to tell you) but tends tends to feel that the roads are only built for cyclists.

I'm glad you get to carry a bag your handlebars. Might be safer to have a basket installed.

I was just curious.

Can't wait to tell my 75 year old Dad that he's a 'hardcore cyclist' - between that and his Strava account he'll be lording it over me

I drove yesterday and today, and I'm driving tomorrow - I'm confused! I wear lycra (a fully paid up MAMIL), I know the RotR (and my responsibilities thereunder), I have an IAM licence, I insist on cycling in the 'primary position' on the road - but I don't use a bike every day (despite owning several) - am I a 'hardcore cyclist'?

BTW - much more fun carrying bags on the handlebars - teaches great bike handling skills, plus I do it for sentimental reasons as it reminds me of the type of thing I did as a kid

.

BBTW - a basket would definitely not be 'Euro'

2RockMountain · 05-05-2016 12:06PM

doozerie wrote: »

There are indeed many people that have to rely on a car to commute (though O'Leary isn't one of them, it's not like he couldn't afford to live closer to his workplace, it's a choice in his case so he should address his whinging to himself), the roads are more than capable of accommodating those people *and* more cyclists. The two are not mutually exclusive despite what some of the vocal critics would like people to think. Instead of shouting down those in favour of cycling such people should engage with them and discuss options, I can't see any other route to a broadly acceptable solution.

He does have a house in Dublin, well two houses side-by-side on Raglan Road - so the Mullingar thing is a bit of a red herring.

billie1b · 05-05-2016 12:12PM

Moflojo wrote: »

Good man Michael. Shoot them all.

However, if we were to apply the low fares airline model to city traffic, then bicycles would probably be the only vehicles allowed on the roads. Let me explain:

One of the core principles of low cost airlines is that you only fly planes that are full, or very near full. To fly half-empty planes is uneconomical so you do whatever you can to make sure that every plane is at capacity. Most private vehicles travelling into Dublin city are operating at 20% capacity, that is 1 driver and 4 empty passenger seats. Under the low cost airlines model that vehicle would be 'grounded' and its occupant(s) would be forced to choose a different route or wait for the next flight to ensure that the vehicle is full when it travels.

If Dublin City Council decided to operate a 'gateway' system based on low cost airlines that only permitted vehicles with >90% capacity to travel during rush hour, then the only vehicles permitted would be bicycles, buses, trams and I'd guess less than 10% of all private vehicles. That'd solve your traffic and parking issues Michael.

Vehicle Occupancy during rush hour:
Bicycle: 100%*
Bus: >90%
Tram: >90%
Taxi: 45% avg.
Michael O'Leary's Chauffeur-Driven Car: 40%
Private Car: 25% avg. (guess)

*Half-full tandems totally blow my argument out of the water so please don't mention them.

14 years working in Ryanair and never once have I had a flight 'grounded' due to low passanger numbers, I have dispatched empty planes and planes from as low as only 6 seats occupied out of the 189 seats, you have no clue how a low cost airline works. The rest of your post is quite good though

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 12:16PM

one thing about average occupancy in taxis - why would we have any reason to believe the average is nearly twice that of a private car?

cython · 05-05-2016 12:48PM

Moflojo wrote: »

...

Vehicle Occupancy during rush hour:
Bicycle: 100%*
Bus: >90%
Tram: >90%
Taxi: 45% avg.
Michael O'Leary's Chauffeur-Driven Car: 40%
Private Car: 25% avg. (guess)

...

magicbastarder wrote: »

one thing about average occupancy in taxis - why would we have any reason to believe the average is nearly twice that of a private car?

I guess logically the technical occupancy of a standard car taxi (as opposed to MPV/minibus with a fare will be 40%, though there is something of an argument that the driver is a "component" of the vehicle for these purposes and the vehicle as a "useful capacity" of 4, and thus each passenger represents a 25% occupancy rate. Factor in that there are some taxis with > 4 seats for passengers and which may only have one or two passengers on board, and I'd also agree that a 45% estimate of average occupancy for taxis is highballing it. But then MOL's car would be subject to the same considerations around capacity if driven by a chauffeur.....

Moflojo · 05-05-2016 12:58PM

billie1b wrote: »

14 years working in Ryanair and never once have I had a flight 'grounded' due to low passanger numbers, I have dispatched empty planes and planes from as low as only 6 seats occupied out of the 189 seats, you have no clue how a low cost airline works. The rest of your post is quite good though

I didn't mention Ryanair. The airline I had in mind was Southwest Airlines in the US.

Michael won't like you telling everyone about all those empty planes he's flying around the place!

cdaly_ · 05-05-2016 01:01PM

Roadhawk wrote: »

When i refer to a cyclist as being "hardcore" I mean a daily cyclists whos main or only mode of transport is a bike. Who is aware of their entitlements of being a road user (and not afraid to tell you) but tends tends to feel that the roads are only built for cyclists.

Ah! So much like a "hardcore" motorist so...

"When i refer to a motorist as being "hardcore" I mean a daily motorists whos main or only mode of transport is a car. Who is aware of their entitlements of being a road user (and not afraid to tell you) but tends tends to feel that the roads are only built for motorists."

Roadhawk · 05-05-2016 01:09PM

cdaly_ wrote: »

Ah! So much like a "hardcore" motorist so...

"When i refer to a motorist as being "hardcore" I mean a daily motorists whos main or only mode of transport is a car. Who is aware of their entitlements of being a road user (and not afraid to tell you) but tends tends to feel that the roads are only built for motorists."

Exactly...now you have it

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 01:22PM

cython wrote: »

I guess logically the technical occupancy of a standard car taxi (as opposed to MPV/minibus with a fare will be 40%, though there is something of an argument that the driver is a "component" of the vehicle for these purposes and the vehicle as a "useful capacity" of 4, and thus each passenger represents a 25% occupancy rate. Factor in that there are some taxis with > 4 seats for passengers and which may only have one or two passengers on board, and I'd also agree that a 45% estimate of average occupancy for taxis is highballing it. But then MOL's car would be subject to the same considerations around capacity if driven by a chauffeur.....

yep, this is why i don't understand why bus lanes should be open for use by taxis; they're not a more efficient use of road space. why should i be allowed use a bus lane because i'm sitting in one type of car rather than another?

in fact, you could argue that the motorist who makes a return trip from A to B is making more efficient use of the roads - the distance the car travels to facilitate the journey is merely the journey itself. the taxi would generally have driven an extra distance to pick up the fare, or an extra distance after dropoff to pick up another fare.

Cienciano · 05-05-2016 01:24PM

He's obviously on a wind up. If anyone came into this forum and posted what he said, thread would be locked and they'd be warned for trolling. "Hate speech"? You're having a laugh.

IngazZagni · 05-05-2016 01:31PM

Just look at the publicity it has got. No doubt bookings are up. Ryanair are playing off it and have created ads saying they love cyclists and are offering lots of flights to go and see the Giro D'Italia. In reality the best way to respond to Michael is not respond at all.

cython · 05-05-2016 02:35PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, this is why i don't understand why bus lanes should be open for use by taxis; they're not a more efficient use of road space. why should i be allowed use a bus lane because i'm sitting in one type of car rather than another?

in fact, you could argue that the motorist who makes a return trip from A to B is making more efficient use of the roads - the distance the car travels to facilitate the journey is merely the journey itself. the taxi would generally have driven an extra distance to pick up the fare, or an extra distance after dropoff to pick up another fare.

The main benefit that I can see taxis offering compared to a private car is that they relieve the pressure on parking, as they drop their fare and go. In fact in many cases people circling for parking, etc. might actually contribute just as much traffic as any extra mileage traveled by taxis to facilitate journeys. In any case, I'm not convinced that taxis are automatically that much less efficient in terms of driving out of their way, as in busy areas it is hardly unlikely that a taxi might drop a fare and be hailed promptly again nearby. Admittedly there may be a case of extra mileage in outer and quieter areas, but generally pressures on traffic lanes in those areas should be a bit less anyway.

I will frame all this by saying that I have no studies or statistics to prove either way in this, and it is all whataboutery without something like that, but it's probably still more reasoned than MOL's comments

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 02:42PM

all that is granted - but usually when i'm in the car, i'm not looking for a parking space in the city centre, i'm passing through to park in a friend's driveway or similar. so maybe i could claim an exemption based on that.

Fian · 05-05-2016 02:51PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, this is why i don't understand why bus lanes should be open for use by taxis; they're not a more efficient use of road space. why should i be allowed use a bus lane because i'm sitting in one type of car rather than another?

in fact, you could argue that the motorist who makes a return trip from A to B is making more efficient use of the roads - the distance the car travels to facilitate the journey is merely the journey itself. the taxi would generally have driven an extra distance to pick up the fare, or an extra distance after dropoff to pick up another fare.

Yeah but you are paying by the minute in a taxi so I for one have no issue with them accessing bus lanes. Hate sitting in a taxi stuck in traffic watching the meter tick up.

In any case the bus lanes are under utilised generally. You can't let all cars use them - because then they would lose the intended benefit for buses. Letting a reasonably small subset of traffic (e.g. taxis and bikes) means they are used more efficiently while at the same time not becoming congested.

magicbastarder · 05-05-2016 02:55PM

the typical - albeit very hard to police - response would be 'you should let cars with three or more occupants use them'. which is a nice idea, but i can't see it working easily.

tomasrojo · 05-05-2016 04:29PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

in fact, you could argue that the motorist who makes a return trip from A to B is making more efficient use of the roads - the distance the car travels to facilitate the journey is merely the journey itself. the taxi would generally have driven an extra distance to pick up the fare, or an extra distance after dropoff to pick up another fare.

But there is the inefficiency of leaving 1.5+ tonnes of machinery sitting in the street at both ends of the journey, taking up a lot of space.

(EDIT: someone already said it.)

tomasrojo · 05-05-2016 04:31PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

the typical - albeit very hard to police - response would be 'you should let cars with three or more occupants use them'. which is a nice idea, but i can't see it working easily.

Again, Curb Your Enthusiasm comes to mind: when Larry is late for the final of a sporting event, and the standard traffic lanes are gridlocked, he picks up a prostitute so he can use the diamond (multi-occupancy) lane.

2RockMountain · 05-05-2016 04:42PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

But there is the inefficiency of leaving 1.5+ tonnes of machinery sitting in the street at both ends of the journey, taking up a lot of space.

(EDIT: someone already said it.)

One might also wonder about the expectation of dedicated public space to storage of private property - if I decide that Dublin City Council has a duty to provide storage space for my lawnmower or my collection of 1980 troll dolls (in their original cellophane wrapping), do they suddenly have to provide public space for me to store these?

tomasrojo wrote: »

Again, Curb Your Enthusiasm comes to mind: when Larry is late for the final of a sporting event, and the standard traffic lanes are gridlocked, he picks up a prostitute so he can use the diamond (multi-occupancy) lane.

A family member does first aid training, and would frequently be driving round with 2 or 3 resuscitation dummies in the car. Lucky bas!ard.

tomasrojo · 05-05-2016 04:46PM

2RockMountain wrote: »

A family member does first aid training, and would frequently be driving round with 2 or 3 resuscitation dummies in the car. Lucky bas!ard.

There used to be a "friend in a suitcase" you could buy in LA, but the penalties for being caught with in the diamond lane without a living flesh-and-blood passenger are pretty steep.

We should take the cyclists out and shoot them

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