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Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread
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SausageDogDave wrote: »Woo hoo! Thanks Nop and best of luck everyone!
DCM 2016 was a new year's resolution of mine from Jan 15 when I started running.
As I really enjoyed running and was inspired by the 2015 novices thread I went ahead and signed up for the Copenhagen Marathon which is happening in 3 weeks (22/5)!... I guess I won't (hopefully) be a Novice strictly speaking. Hopefully that's ok. I've a massive amount to learn
Have you raced before?
A few parkruns, 5 miles, 10ks and 2 HMs:
10K : 53:28 (Nov 15)
Half Marathon: 2:00:21 (Mar 16)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No
How much training do you currently do ?
Generally 4 days a week. Distances of 8k or 13k during the week building up 32k at the weekend. Not great at doing cross training.
What do you want to achieve?
Finishing and enjoying the experience. Would be nice if Sub 4-hours is doable come October.
How many days a week can you train?
4 or 5. Going to follow the Boards Plan as I'd like to try speed work. If I don't like it I 'll revert to HH.
Why are you running this marathon?
Initially Motivation. Now because cos it would be epic.
Hey SausageDogDave -
Welcome to the thread! So you're off to the mainland soon to run 42.2 km? Good luck! I hope you're well into the tapering phase now. Tapering is a key part of building up to such a big race, but it has the tendency to drive you mad (and the mentor!).
Set yourself a conservative, realistic goal for the day, but don't get too attached to the outcome for your first. Your aim should be to complete without thinking "never again"
You're welcome back as a Novice here (of course) at the slight expense of a trip/race report after you are finished
. This is a great way of remember the good and the bad after your race, what worked well, and what can be improved. And I hope this thread will start to contain plenty of such reports by all Novices, they are invaluable tool for learning!
Once you're back from CPH, chill for a few weeks and slowly ease back in. I agree on the boards plan.
Held og lykke!0 -
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The Black Oil wrote: »Nice one. Was wondering when this thread might pop up, thanks for starting it. I am not a regular poster here by any means. I said a few months back I'd do this, so I better stay true to my word. I've never run more than 10k and fell very much out of sync with running in 2014. Gradually got back into it last year.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
The Darkness into Light event in 2014 and 10 park runs spins are my only 'officially' timed events.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do?
2-3 times per week was the norm earlier this year, only 5k, though. I'm injured at present and haven't run since April 1st. I'm hoping a visit to the GP this week will give me the all clear to start again. Injury kicked in just as I was bring my park run time down, slowly. :mad: Not belting it by any means, but was hoping to get it under 23 minutes, then under 22...eventually.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing
Under 4 hours, 4:30 is probably more realistic. :cool:
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Some evenings will be tricky as I sometimes do volunteering based on a rota system. Thurs-Sun is generally best for me, diary-wise, but I'll see.
Probably the Hal one or an app, if I can get it to play podcasts at the same time.
Why are you running this marathon?
To mentally and physically challenge myself, I know I can do it if I put in the work. Because my body likes to be outdoors, not stuck in a comfort zone and perhaps to eventually go on to do more sports. On a cycling holiday a while back I was rather outranked (not distance, just general fitness) by iron man/triathlon nerds who were about a decade older than me. I'm sure the atmosphere will be good too.
Also, so I can motivate myself with unrelated film quotes such as we're gonna need a bigger boat. Don't ask. :pac:
Hey The Black Oil,
Welcome to the thread! I hope your injury isn't too serious and that you're back up and running soon. What's the nature of your problems (more out of interest, I can't really give any advice on it, other than to seek professional help, which you are doing).
Your parkrun times are trending nicely - but I would be worried about your lack of experience to longer distances. 5ks and marathons are entirely different kettle of fish. Not many Novices last year had not yet completed a half marathon before embarking on this adventure - but in fairness, there were one or two inspirational characters who managed to cover both their first half and full. So it's not impossible, but, as you acknowledge yourself, you'll have to put in the hard work.
I would recommend the HHN1 plan - for the simple reason that it says what it does on the tin: it gets you in a position to get around first time around.
One of my favorite mantra's from last year was "don't be too attached to the outcome" - and this is something I would recommend to you from the start. I don't doubt your ability, but don't underestimate the size of the challenge. Why don't you come onboard, start working towards running 4x a week once given the all clear, and start following HHN1. We'll work towards having a good debut at the race series events (10M and HM). If you're going well at that point, let's start thinking about the big day!
Good luck - I hope you're back out soon again. Really looking forward to see how you progress, just keep a realistic outlook. 0 -
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Another noob question
What's the story with treadmills? I'll be away for a few weeks in the summer and don't fancy the long runs in 30 degrees (I can do the shorter runs early morning). I will have access to a gym so can do the lsr on a treadmill, but does that give the same benefit as road running?0 -
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Another noob question
What's the story with treadmills? I'll be away for a few weeks in the summer and don't fancy the long runs in 30 degrees (I can do the shorter runs early morning). I will have access to a gym so can do the lsr on a treadmill, but does that give the same benefit as road running?
Hey kin9pin, lucky you off on your holiers
training on the road (or grass/trails) is the best option of all but treadmills are better than nothing so I would say yes that's fine. One common suggestion to make the treadmill a little more like road running (resistance wise) is to put the incline at 1%. 0 -
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Another noob question
What's the story with treadmills? I'll be away for a few weeks in the summer and don't fancy the long runs in 30 degrees (I can do the shorter runs early morning). I will have access to a gym so can do the lsr on a treadmill, but does that give the same benefit as road running?
Don't completely abandon the idea of running outside.
DCM 2014 was 18 degrees and windy. Anything as you all know can happen with the weather so don't let it put you off.
Train in all conditions, character building some will be but you'll learn from them.
If training always be well hydrated and bring emergency money.0 -
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,968 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 17561
Might throw the thread link into my signature. Not familiar enough with the forum to know whether it warrants a sticky - understand the pros and cons of doing so, or not.Some General Advice
[*]Run slow. Once you think you run slow enough, run even slower. You will not be able to complete all the training miles if you don't run the majority of them slow (slower than you will run on the day itself). Once the program is about to start, we'll talk about how to determine your ideally training paces.
To pick up on this, how slow are we talking about? I'm ignorant about pace on a technical level, but I presume we're not going to be flopping about. :pac:Hey The Black Oil,
Welcome to the thread! I hope your injury isn't too serious and that you're back up and running soon. What's the nature of your problems (more out of interest, I can't really give any advice on it, other than to seek professional help, which you are doing).
I would recommend the HHN1 plan - for the simple reason that it says what it does on the tin: it gets you in a position to get around first time around.
Good luck - I hope you're back out soon again. Really looking forward to see how you progress, just keep a realistic outlook.
It'll be a challenge and a half, certainly.
Ribs took a hit a while back. Was in pain for a few weeks. I'll be grand once the doc says it's OK.
Thanks for the input. Printed out the HHN1 plan today. I might rewrite some of the jargon so it's clearer in my ahead and have set times to get out there. One thing, since it's structured for Saturday being an active day, should I effectively ditch park run whilst doing this? I like it as a morning activity. Cycling might be my cross. Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.
CMod: Entertainment
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Thanks for the advice everyone.
Yeah I'd prefer to run outside, I can't stand treadmills. I'll take a hydration backpack and see how warm it gets in the morning. Can't believe I'm already planning when to run in July!
From memory I don't think mileage is too high by then I would have been in Portugal first week in July last year and would have gotten up early to run before it got hot. feel great then for the rest of the day. Real sign you're a runner if your carry on full of running gear !!! Enjoy the ride it's a rocky road full of highs and lows but crossing that finish line is the best feeling ever and makes it all worth it. 0 -
I was waiting for this thread to appear, followed last year's one with interest and it was very enjoyable seeing the results on the day after all the hard work people had put in. I m running just less than 2 years, would ahve played a lot of GAA in my youth but nothing since apart from a cycle commute of 7k each way every day. That commute is now gone.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Only a little. A few 5kraces, a good few parkruns and 1 HM.
5k: 20:20 Parkrun (Aug 2015). 4 sub 21's in total. Never managed to break the magic (for me) 20 mins. I would have been focussing on 5k at that time my times now would not be as good - likely be more late 21's, early 22's but I have not been doing 5ks.
HM - 1:49:55 (April 2016). Wexford HM very recently. Ran last 5k in 23 mins flat so pacing was not right as I had way too much in reserve at 16k! Was too lacking in confidence to start faster, maybe the result would have been the same, who knows.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No.
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
4 days a week. 2 X 4 or 5 miles. 1 x 8 miles and 1 LSR at weekend. Longest LSR to date 17 miles at 5:40 pace (Per km!!). Trying to build endurance at moment.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Sub 4hrs is the one and only target.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
Currently running 4. Can increase to 5. Cross training is not appealing- cannot swim and not keen on gym work or cycling.
Why are you running this marathon?
For the challenge.
I am currently in training for the Waterford marathon in late June, hence up to 17 miles. I am following Hal Higdon Novice 2 for that. Plan is just to get round alive and doing it for the experience. My main assault is on the DCM. I hope that does not preclude me from this thread as I hopefully will have 1 marathon under me belt. I really need help as I am on my own, no training partner or club and could use some assistance and advice! Thank you nop98 for taking the time to run this thread.
Hello Barbacus, welcome to the thread.
I did WX as my first HM in 2014 and had a opposite day to you: ran too fast for the first 16km and then died a slow death - resulting in a very similar time to you - I think I would have preferred your experience.
Learning how to properly attack a race is an art itself - sometimes it works a charm, sometimes you feel you haven't all left it out there, and other times, it is a complete sufferfest.
It seems like you've made up your mind about running the Waterford marathon - good luck with it. Go as easy as you can.
A note on pacing (I'll write up a more detailed post on that shortly). LSR pace is slower than easy pace. Easy pace is slower than PMP ("planned marathon pace"). 5:40 min/km [9:07 min/mi] is a 4h marathon - in other words, you're running your LSRs are PMP, which is too fast.
Since you're "practicing" with Waterford, also practice your training. You should really bring your LSR pace right down, to 6:10-6:15 min/km or slower. It will feel so slow that you're think you're doing it wrong. You're not.
For the day itself, think about what you want to "practice", for example, do you want to run with a pacer - say 4h30? Not sure if there are pacers at that time. But you can try things out - "now is the time", as DG said repeatedly.
You're welcome back to this thread even with the one training marathon under your belt, the entry-fee is a race report!
Good luck, keep us posted!0 -
Very excited to be joining this thread I followed the last year's, but it was too early in my "running career" to get involved.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
HM: 1:57:08 (Clontarf Nov 2015)
10k: 53:30 (Nov 2015)
5k: 23:20 (Oct 2015) Not sure what happened here, it's 1:10 faster than anything I've ever run, though I tend to prefer longer runs.
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No.
How much training do you currently do ?
I'm currently training for the Clontarf HM on 9th July, following the Garmin level 2 plan. It's not far off the Hal Higdon intermediate, but had the added bonus that I could send straight to my watch
At the moment I'm running 5 times a week, around 30-40km total.
What do you want to achieve?
Dream: 3:59:59
Happy: 4:29:29
Otherwise just finish! I really have no idea what I can realistically aim for and that's the one thing that worries me. I am usually over-cautious so will only follow the 4 hour pacers if I'm confident of sticking with them.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I should be able to stick to 5 days. Planning on following the boards plan.
Why are you running this marathon?
I'm 45 and gave up smoking in October 2014. Started running in December 2014 (first run was 200m before I stopped for breath and my legs turned to jelly!). The marathon kind of completes my whole get fit regime, but I'm hoping I enjoy it enough to do it again.
Big thanks to nop98 for doing this.
Hello kin9pin,
Welcome to the thread. Best of luck running Clontarf - I've done it twice, it's quite a unique race with the out-and-back stretch along the beach. We'll have to work out how to work the training plan around that race, but we'll work it out. I hope you'll like the boards plan after that, we'll just build in an easy week after Clontarf.
Don't worry about setting goal-times just yet. Really, there's enough time for it! You'll have several tune-up races.
Not a lot of feedback otherwise, you seem to have a good structure in your training routines already. Good luck in Clontarf, and *ahem* a race-report sharing your experiences would go down well 0 -
Thanks for this Nop! Looking forward to all the advice/encouragement/support from this thread. I lurked on last year's thread and it really inspired me to sign up this year!
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yes, I've done a good few 5k and 10k, and I did the race series last year. My PB for 10k is around 47.30 (last year) and I did the half in 1.45
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I run 5 days per week. I'm currently doing the Hal Higdon intermediate spring training program, except I don't do the 3m on Mondays. So around 15-20 miles per week
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I would really love to do it in under 4 hours, but I'm not sure yet how realistic that is. I suppose I'll know better closer to the time.
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I'm happy to keep running 5 days per week, would rather not do more than that. I was actually going to do the HH novice 2 program.
Why are you running this marathon?
I have been running for years but never attempted this before. I'm doing it for the personal challenge, also to increase my fitness. I was a spectator at the finish of last year's DCM (my sister's first marathon finish) and was really caught up in the atmosphere & emotion of it all. It made me want to be part of it this year!
Excellent stuff, aceygray, welcome on board.
It seems like you're cruising already with a great training routine. 5 days a week should be fine, even for the boards plan. HHN2 is fine, obviously, but if you haven't made up your mind, check out the boards plan, too.
If you haven't anything planned, you might want to consider a tune-up 10k in June - Dunshaughlin or the Fingal 10k as part of the race series, just to break the monotony of a long training cycle.
Looking forward to seeing your progress! The finishline experience of DCM '15 was something else. I hope you'll get to enjoy it this time yourself! But let's not get carried away just yet 0 -
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Thanks for the advice everyone.
Yeah I'd prefer to run outside, I can't stand treadmills. I'll take a hydration backpack and see how warm it gets in the morning. Can't believe I'm already planning when to run in July!
An LSR on the treadmill will make you lose the will to live, never mind run. If you go out early... Dawn or just before the sun comes up, you will be much better off and you will also feel very smug and have a great excuse to do nothing for the rest of the day!. Just be careful to hydrate more than at home. 0 -
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An LSR on the treadmill will make you lose the will to live, never mind run. If you go out early... Dawn or just before the sun comes up, you will be much better off and you will also feel very smug and have a great excuse to do nothing for the rest of the day!. Just be careful to hydrate more than at home.
Not for these guys
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Hello Barbacus, welcome to the thread.
I did WX as my first HM in 2014 and had a opposite day to you: ran too fast for the first 16km and then died a slow death - resulting in a very similar time to you - I think I would have preferred your experience.
Learning how to properly attack a race is an art itself - sometimes it works a charm, sometimes you feel you haven't all left it out there, and other times, it is a complete sufferfest.
It seems like you've made up your mind about running the Waterford marathon - good luck with it. Go as easy as you can.
A note on pacing (I'll write up a more detailed post on that shortly). LSR pace is slower than easy pace. Easy pace is slower than PMP ("planned marathon pace"). 5:40 min/km [9:07 min/mi] is a 4h marathon - in other words, you're running your LSRs are PMP, which is too fast.
Since you're "practicing" with Waterford, also practice your training. You should really bring your LSR pace right down, to 6:10-6:15 min/km or slower. It will feel so slow that you're think you're doing it wrong. You're not.
For the day itself, think about what you want to "practice", for example, do you want to run with a pacer - say 4h30? Not sure if there are pacers at that time. But you can try things out - "now is the time", as DG said repeatedly.
You're welcome back to this thread even with the one training marathon under your belt, the entry-fee is a race report!
Good luck, keep us posted!
Cheers nop. I will take your LSR advice on board. Have to do 18 miles this weekend and will do it at more than 6 min per km. I have not been struggling at 5:40 per km pace so far, I mean its not totally easy but not too hard either and that is up to 17 miles thus far. A totally stupid question but if you have not run at marathon pace for your long runs where does the extra 30 secs per km come from on the big day!? That is my fear but I know what I have been doing is wrong.
I will try to get on to pace per mile thinking rather than per km. Sorry about that. Ill stick with the HH Novice 2 plan for Waterford, want to work in more speedwork, fartlek etc for the DCM plan so will reconfigure after Waterford. I will certainly report back after Waterford, I will follow a pacer for that most likely.
By the way I use a foam roller and think its great, not sure if they suit everybody but I find it good for relieving muscle tension post run (like later in the evening).0 -
By the way I use a foam roller and think its great, not sure if they suit everybody but I find it good for relieving muscle tension post run (like later in the evening).
Plus one to this, although I probably don't use mine half as much as I should.
I also picked up one of these small massager things in Tiger:
I originally bought it for knots in my shoulders but have it sitting at my desk in work and it's been really useful for massaging sore legs, especially quads. Two of us in the office now have them with another planning on buying one:pac:0 -
Hi MonkstownHoop, delighted to have you on board.
I agree, on a nice day, the views from Killiney Hill are worth stopping for!
You have some fine times over the 5/10k distances. It looks to me that, like other candidates, it's a matter of slowly building up towards the endurance required for the longer distances. You've done one HM so far (good time for a debut!) - imagine that using the boards program, you'll end up running them every weekend for quite a while! If you need to prep for anything, that's it. The HHN1 program does look a little light for you.
So, in order to get ready for that, look at the programs and structure your pre-plan training around that. Aim to add a mile (or 1.6km) a week to your long runs, and add a 4th time running a week soon enough. You have a decent base, so it's time to slowly morph that into a marathon training program.
Good luck!
Cheers Nop looking forward to the coming months0 -
Hey Utah - welcome to the thread!
Sorry to hear about your shin-splints, it sounds very sore. I see that you've already gotten some replies - and I can only echo it: use the coming couple of weeks to rest and get rid of the problems entirely, before attempting to run again. Rushing back with problems like shin-splints is asking for trouble down the line. It's worth going to see a physio for as aquinn suggests. And, annoying as it is with a new pair of runners, but you gotta make sure they're the right ones, and not the root cause of your problems.
Please take your time with your recovery. Even if it takes a few weeks, but then you're running pain-free, you've every chance to get to the start of the program (HHN1 probably right for you) in a decent shape.
Keep us posted!
Thanks nop.
Booked in to Total Physio tomorrow. 0 -
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