Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

The Dickler wrote: »

Lol. Sorry Realt. I seriously think ye are in a bit of bother though. Is Cody losing touch here? Great man and all that he is all thing must end. With TJ calling for sweepers and the likes of Clare using you for target practice maybe it's time you looked for someone a bit more in touch with the modern game. I have it from good authority that Eddie Brennan is only gagging for the job.

Yawn. Is that the best trolling you can do? Poor effort. Try harder.

The Dickler wrote: »

Lol. Sorry Realt. I seriously think ye are in a bit of bother though. Is Cody losing touch here? Great man and all that he is all thing must end. With TJ calling for sweepers and the likes of Clare using you for target practice maybe it's time you looked for someone a bit more in touch with the modern game. I have it from good authority that Eddie Brennan is only gagging for the job.

He must have lost touch at some point since September. Seemed pretty in touch at that stage. I know there have been massive strides in the way the game is played since then, but I'm sure he'll catch up between now and championship.

Who the f.... are Waterford?

dubcat51 wrote: »

Shocking stuff clare v waterford . hurling needs a non sweeper playing team to win the all ireland for the sake of the game.at a wedding down west yesterday and saw paddy power were offering 7/1 on us winning the u 21st this year.put 50 on at 7. Waterford at 2/1 are the bookies favs followed by galway.

I would even prefer Tipperary to win than have this style of hurling, at least they play the game the right way

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Brutal to watch alright. Giving hurling a bad name.

In fairness, extra time has been entertaining

blackcard wrote: »

Cornerback1 wrote: »

Brutal to watch alright. Giving hurling a bad name.

In fairness, extra time has been entertaining

That's when the game came to life. Lively finish but first 70mins were forgetable. Serious wdes by Waterford and serious frees given away by Clare.

Not sure if the want another match with Munster c'ship so close by.

Takes a lot to wish a win for tipp.but this sweeper system has begun to ruin our great game.with the forwards clare have why would you play 7 at the back.natueal talent giving way to managerial systems.waterford also have great young players but they must be getting sick of seen balls hit wide over there heads from 70 _80 yards out.once they don't win with this system fans will soon turn on management. Certainly wouldn't buy a season ticket to watch them (not value for money )

Michael Kavanagh wrote: »

Fair enough but there was plenty of lads that hurled with kierans from outside the county that deserve mention and have great fondness for it still like Pat White Kildare his father was from Kilkenny , M Kelly from Blessington Co Wicklow that man you mentioned above all these lads were a much a part of kierans success as the locals were that's why Nicky Rackard was mentioned.

Yeah but he wasn't talking about past players just to reminisce, it was in the context of an argument (conspiracy theory, really) claiming that the KK minor team was unfairly privileging Kierans and CBS players, which he was (quite successfully) tearing apart. It didn't matter that some people who weren't from Kilkenny happened to hurl there.

Just saw that Railyard won the senior football final on Saturday for the 3rd year in a row. Is that their season over or do they play in the Leinster Football Championship at any level?

kksaints wrote: »

Just saw that Railyard won the senior football final on Saturday for the 3rd year in a row. Is that their season over or do they play in the Leinster Football Championship at any level?

They'll Leinster Intermediate championship in Oct/Nov. They're still involved in the Carlow football league at the minute too which will run until around the middle of June.

Did anyone hear how the U-21 challenge game between Kilkenny and Tipp went at the weekend, or has anyone any idea of the team?

It's very obvious that this is something that your very passionate about and as another poster suggested this is very close to you personally. Thats great and informs your opinions as you almost definitely have had more direct experience of the set ups than me. I do think however that it has slightly skewed your perception of whats going on. I don't doubt your contention that lads were summarily dropped from the minor panel once the Kierans lads were ready. I do agree this is not good/nice/proper/decent way to treat them. However the management are there to make calls and they succeed or fall by these kinds of calls. The management dropped 12 lads they felt weren't as good as the lads they now had access to from the Kierans panel. You may not agree, I may not agree (if I knew them all as hurlers) but that doesn't matter unfortunately as it's not our decision to make.

To give you a different take on Kierans from talking to my closest Kierans connection. The place is a nightmare for the staff every September/October. They spend hours dealing with angry parents over young lads not making the team.
Take very typical case of Hypothetical Little Johnny a 1st year, he heads off to Kierans and Johnnys the best talent his club has produced in maybe 15 or 20 years.
Johnny goes for the Kierans U14's team trials going up against lads who've hurled at high levels all along and lads who are bigger/stronger/faster/fitter/better/older.
Johnny doesn't make it.
Johnny is totally devastated, he can't sleep at night, he can't concentrate in class because coming to Kierans and getting on the team is what he's dreamed of! He expected it of himself and it's what others expected of him.
Johnnys parents are understandably upset to see their young lad in such a state so they often get angry and cause pandemonium in the school after the team is announced.
However Johnny invariably goes back to his club and hurls on but he also hurls with lads in Kierans during the breaks and sees what the level he has to get to is.
Johnny trys out again in second year, he gets on to the team this time and plays very well.
Johnny is often the lad who makes the senior team when he's still in transition year and plays senior for 3 years.

To me this highlights the advantages of having a Kierans College in Kilkenny it is the stuff of lads dreams. It actually makes young lads who are already good better because they want to be on that Kierans team.

Just look at whats happened to Cork hurling since their strong hurling secondary schools North Mon & St Finbarrs have fallen by the way side. Hurling in Cork city has died and as a result has been in a terrible state all over the county.

I've made a few notes on your last post.

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

Original post clearly stated “City secondary schools”
(issue fudged by poster stating “city clubs” and making it the main opposition point, so just to clarify) Well I stated I was unsure which you were referring to from reading your original post after reading this it is clearer. Thank you

The key numbers are;
75% of minor match day squad v Offaly were from “City secondary schools”
73% of starting team were from “City secondary schools”
100% of the substitutes introduced were from “City secondary schools”
About a dozen NON-“City secondary school” players were dropped from panel within hours of Kierans winning the All-Ireland without been given the chance to compare on the training ground with the lads from Kierans I agree this is a poor way of handling the young lads
40% of the “City secondary schools” senior squads saw No competitive college game time. (so what makes them better than to Non “City secondary schools” lads?) Very little to yours or my eyes but then again we're not the ones in watching the training all the time and I definitely haven't been following these guys up through the grades from U14's up. Most minor managements are appointed because of work they've done with certain underage groups up along and because of their knowledge of the players available at the age group

This has happened in the past. Two years ago a player frequently mentioned here as a senior prospect was omitted from the minor team embarrassingly humbled by Dublin in the Nowlan Park. He did Not attend a “City secondary school”. After intervention from a high ranking county board official he was drafted in. He went on to play a huge role culminating with a Man of the Match performance in the All Ireland final.
Ok are you talking about John Walsh in 2014 because he got man of the match, didn't go to a city school as far as I know. However the rest of the story doesn't match John Walsh. Heres his playing record or the minors in 2014!
v Dublin - 26 April - started FF- subbed for C Carroll(0-0)- scored 0-0
v Carlow - 10 May - started LCF- subbed for E Kenny(0-1) - scored 0-1
v Laois - 21 June - Sub- came on for RCF: R Corcoran(0-1)- scored 0-1
v Dublin - 6 July - Sub- came on 52mins for CF: R Butler(0-1) - scored 0-1
v Waterford - 10 August - Sub- came on 37mins for LWF: B Ryan(0-1)- scored 1-1
v Limerick - 7 September - started LCF- played full game- scored 2-5
So if it's not John Walsh who was this lad I can't figure it out?

Issue was also fudged by historic references going back to the fifties, I didn't fudge anything I used examples to show that Kierans has a long history of pulling in top talent from around the county but it is true that parents from country clubs have been head hunted to send their talented young Cumann Na Bunscoil player to Kierans in recent times. How recent? That last player I know that Kierans specifically went after was Tipperarys Eoin Kelly. What form does this head hunting take? Is it just a chat on the sidelines something like "Jasus your young lad is very good have you ever considered sending him to Kierans?" or does it actually have some sort of form where they actively call out too or call parents in? In addition, “AFAIK” a key member of the management team has a direct link with Kierans College (do your research) I have done my research and none of the management team has a direct link with Kierans college.
Here they're can you let me know which one has a link with Kierans and what the link is?
Pat Hoban (Mullinavat) - Manager; he has a son in Kierans but he's not on the minor panel or Kierans Senior team this year
Peter O'Donovan (Erins Own) - Selector; no known connection
Niall Mc Cormack (Dunnamaggin) - Selector; no known connection
Pat Nolan (Blacks & Whites) - Selector; no known connection
Ray O Keeffe (James Stephens) - Fitness & Conditioning; possibly being confused with another Mr O'Keeffe from the village who teaches in Kierans and trains their cross country team but not the same man.


One poster did put a lot of time into stats and that is respected, thank you but they weren’t all relevant to proving it is a level playing field for minor level selection. correct I was unsure as to which way your argument was going at the time

I suggest it isn’t a level playing field, it is getting worse and that it does have knock on effects on the geographical spread of junior clubs To be quite honest these guys have been watched coming through since at least U14's, through U16's and the top talent is spotted very early on and like it or not these are invariably the guys who do well. Those that are good enough are given the chances to prove it with the development squads and some develop late and are brought in and given a go, some make it, others don't. and our recent failures at Under-21 can be tracked back along way before they hit minor and has followed through to U21 unsurprisingly (which thankfully can be compensated for by the great talent we already have on board and the management are OK too the current senior management team is in place). But the first part needs to be understood before you can expand that debate. We can come back to the effect on junior reference We'll leave it for now so (which was also taken out of context) at a later date and also the Under-21 (which nobody was prepared to analyse) I am let me know what you would like analysed so as the initial issue is not fudged. It is clear and understandable that the ex-students and teachers believe there is a level playing field, then they would. what?