Why do I bother paying my DART fare?

Hollister11 · 29-04-2016 10:40AM #1

Since I started college almost 2 years Go I have paid more than 1K on dart fare.

I'm currently on the DART now, and as I was tagging on, two scrotes in front of me, walked through the open barriers, and on to the train for free.

I have seen an inspector once in that time, so I would still be €900 better off, even after the fine.

Having the barriers open and the station unmanned is a joke, especially when you see people getting free transport.

Captain Chaos · 29-04-2016 10:46AM

I see it every day myself, the amount of people that don't pay and the amount of times stations are unmanned is just silly. Irsh Rail think they are saving money not have to pay staff but at the same time no one is enforcing revenue protection like Transdev.

If they got serious about inspecting tickets on the DART service alone Irish would clean up in fines, especially at off peak times.

howiya · 29-04-2016 10:46AM

Hollister11 wrote: »

Since I started college almost 2 years Go I have paid more than 1K on dart fare.

I'm currently on the DART now, and as I was tagging on, two scrotes in front of me, walked through the open barriers, and on to the train for free.

I have seen an inspector once in that time, so I would still be €900 better off, even after the fine.

Having the barriers open and the station unmanned is a joke, especially when you see people getting free transport.

But then you'd be just another scrote...

Captain Chaos · 29-04-2016 10:47AM

howiya wrote: »

But then you'd be just another scrote...

A €900 better off scrote but you can see where he is coming from.

howiya · 29-04-2016 10:51AM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I see it every day myself, the amount of people that don't pay and the amount of times stations are unmanned is just silly. Irsh Rail think they are saving money not have to pay staff but at the same time no one is enforcing revenue protection like Transdev.

If they got serious about inspecting tickets on the DART service alone Irish would clean up in fines, especially at off peak times.

Irish Rail do have a revenue protection unit. Begs the question, what are these people doing to earn their wage. Probably not a lot...

Rarely see anyone checking tickets on DB either although you do have to pass the driver to get on the bus so not the same as Luas or train...

Do Transdev release any stats of how many people they catch? They do look to be the most visible although a lot of the time the officers are standing around having a chat.

howiya · 29-04-2016 10:54AM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

A €900 better off scrote but you can see where he is coming from.

I don't really to be honest. I can see his frustration but at the same time I wouldn't stop paying my fare. In the same way I wouldn't pick something off the shelf in a shop and not pay for it. Lots of people shoplift, doesn't make it more acceptable for everyone else to follow their lead just because they didn't get caught.

devnull · 29-04-2016 10:56AM

The fact is even if the gates were closed the station staff don't do anything about evading.

At Clongriffin gates used to be open all morning even when station staff were present, less hassle that way apparently, fare evasion is rampant especially between non city centre stations.

Getting away with it at Connolly for example is extremely unlikely because of a highly visible RPI and staff, but places like Grand Canal Dock, Portmarnock, Clongriffin, Kilbarack etc are rampant.

Captain Chaos · 29-04-2016 10:58AM

howiya wrote: »

I don't really to be honest. I can see his frustration but at the same time I wouldn't stop paying my fare. In the same way I wouldn't pick something off the shelf in a shop and not pay for it. Lots of people shoplift, doesn't make it more acceptable for everyone else to follow their lead just because they didn't get caught.

Not saying it''s acceptable but there are so many doing it daily and it's very very easy to get away with it if you were so inclined.

It would also sort out alot of the antisocial behaviour at the same time if it was enforced.

During the day on the Luas and you see all the revenue protection up ahead at the next station, all the scrotes start to panic and get off the tram even if tickets are not being checked. They work better than security at clearing a tram up.

Hollister11 · 29-04-2016 11:00AM

devnull wrote: »

The fact is even if the gates were closed the station staff don't do anything about evading.

At Clongriffin gates used to be open all morning even when station staff were present, less hassle that way apparently, fare evasion is rampant especially between non city centre stations.

Getting away with it at Connolly for example is extremely unlikely because of a highly visible RPI and staff, but places like Grand Canal Dock, Portmarnock, Clongriffin, Kilbarack etc are rampant.

Exactly where i get on everyday

29-04-2016 11:02AM

The people who get the odd journey aren't the problem. It's the people who get on at 2 packed stations who walk through behind/in front of people as the gates are open, meaning the person in front/behind may miss their open gate window.

The fare capping being at 35+ euro for the week on the Dart is a joke too. 7 or 8 euro a day for some people who are obviously their biggest users is going to leave a sour taste. It's 27 odd on the bus, not sure why this is different on the dart. The student cap is what it should be for everyone and lower again for students.

There should be a monthly pass on the leap card for 100 odd, would save a lot of the hold up at the one or 2 machines in most stations and just be handier for everyone in general. The lack of interactivity between the 3 systems in dublin is a joke. If you have to get a 2 Buses and a Dart/Luas on lets say a weekday you are nearly hitting the 9.20 cap which is outrageous for a days travel for the people who they should be helping. Considering the state of the system we are overpaying pretty significantly for the service.

goingnowhere · 29-04-2016 11:02AM

devnull wrote: »

Getting away with it at Connolly for example is extremely unlikely because of a highly visible RPI and staff, but places like Grand Canal Dock, Portmarnock, Clongriffin, Kilbarack etc are rampant.

Been checked at Grand Canal Dock 3 times in the last month including this morning. Just because you don't see someone tagging on doesn't mean they do not have a ticket. Yet to see someone pulled aside for no ticket during a peak hour check

devnull · 29-04-2016 11:05AM

I traveled from two non city centre stations every day for 18 months and was never checked once at peak times. It's good they are checking at Grand Canal Dock now because people have been using the layout to their advantage (I have heard them openly talking about it)

The only stations I have ever been checked at in the last 5 years are Connolly, Pearse and Tara Street. It's the outer stations where the most fraud is happening because there is far less checks and the cheats know this.

North of Clontarf there are a huge amount of people not paying their fare to/from work/school/shops every day, because simply there is never any ticket checks at those stations apart from at Malahide which is a strange place to check since it's the start of the line.

howiya · 29-04-2016 11:16AM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not saying it''s acceptable but there are so many doing it daily and it's very very easy to get away with it if you were so inclined.

It would also sort out alot of the antisocial behaviour at the same time if it was enforced.

During the day on the Luas and you see all the revenue protection up ahead at the next station, all the scrotes start to panic and get off the tram even if tickets are not being checked. They work better than security at clearing a tram up.

It would be great to see it fully enforced and to remove the predictability from it. As others have said there are places where people seem to believe they can get away with it and their experience then proves this to be the case.

I'm wondering if Transdev are more proactive in this area because they are a private company. I know they get a fixed fee per day from TII but they could be incentivised in the contract to enforce revenue protection eg targets or quotas and corresponding bonuses

devnull · 29-04-2016 11:21AM

Personally I wonder what station staff actually do for a lot of the time, when I used the DART for 18 months solid often the gates would be open, people would just walk through without buying tickets, there are delays or cancellations, no announcements are given, you ask the guy at the station, he says he doesn't know anything and it's not his job to give service updates or to stop fare evasion.

Personally they seem to be a waste of time a lot of the times, they are just playing with their phones and adding no value to the company in the limited hours they are there. Even if there are youths acting the maggot with a ghetto blaster they say they are not security so can do nothing about that either

There has to be some proper serious fare evasion crackdown on the DART, because the current situation is just a free for all unless you get on or off at one of the big stations.

GLaDOS · 29-04-2016 11:35AM

Surprised there seems to be so little ticket checking on the DART. I use the Maynooth line daily and usually get checked every 3/4 weeks, either on the train or leaving the station.

Heisenberg1 · 29-04-2016 11:38AM

OP I can assure that the so called scrotes are not the problem when it comes to fare evasion on the Dart. I'm traveling on the Dart for over 15 years and I would say the big problems come from the middle and upper classes. I've seen them hop over the fence in Dalkey numerous times I would see the same people do it over and over again and that's just one station. I've seen 6th year students from the local private school buying child tickets and bunking the train, maybe 5 to 10 students at a time. I've reported it many times and the station staff have caught some of them but that is just from 1 station as most of them are travelling to Sandycove, salt hill booterstown and the likes.

Andy Magic · 29-04-2016 11:47AM

The only time you ever see an inspector is at rush hour when the working class are getting the train, they don't want to catch the scrotes.

Captain Chaos · 29-04-2016 11:53AM

Andy Magic wrote: »

The only time you ever see an inspector is at rush hour when the working class are getting the train, they don't want to catch the scrotes.

I use the DART daily at rush hour and have not seen an inspector in years on the DART. I get checked on the Sligo train like clockwork on the weekends though.

On the Luas I got my ticket check 3 times in one trip in the morning rush hour before. Massive difference is revenue collection practices.

Irish Rail seem to be more than happy to have hundreds freeloading on the DART system daily while at the same time complaining they can't afford to run longer trains to meet peak demands. It's joke of a setup.

devnull · 29-04-2016 11:57AM

As stated previously, if you get checked or not tends to be heavily influenced by which stations you use, the stations nearer the city centre and the bigger stations such as Dun Lagohaire seem to be checked a lot more than hte DART only stations where I see a huge amount of evasion.

Hollister11 · 29-04-2016 11:57AM

Andy Magic wrote: »

The only time you ever see an inspector is at rush hour when the working class are getting the train, they don't want to catch the scrotes.

Never seen one during rush hour ever.

Infini · 29-04-2016 12:05PM

devnull wrote: »

Personally I wonder what station staff actually do for a lot of the time, when I used the DART for 18 months solid often the gates would be open, people would just walk through without buying tickets, there are delays or cancellations, no announcements are given, you ask the guy at the station, he says he doesn't know anything and it's not his job to give service updates or to stop fare evasion.

Staff will give the information if you ask the problem is at times the staff on the ground themselves wont hear anything either until announcements are made. Sometimes we only find out whats happening at the same times as the customers too. Announcements will get made though if its gonna happen for a significant amount of time.

devnull wrote: »

Personally they seem to be a waste of time a lot of the times, they are just playing with their phones and adding no value to the company in the limited hours they are there. Even if there are youths acting the maggot with a ghetto blaster they say they are not security so can do nothing about that either.

Its a catch 22 situation. Problem is theres questions over secutity and in the past you'd have situations where if staff went to confront them the first thing management would turn around and say is what were you doing out of the office? You cant really win. Best staff can do is call the cops if theyre loitering around and refusing to leave.

devnull wrote: »

There has to be some proper serious fare evasion crackdown on the DART, because the current situation is just a free for all unless you get on or off at one of the big stations.

To be honest management just dont give a damn they just want to close the stations in the long run and have the RPU fine as many people as possible because they think its their new money making machine. Can tell you this much it'll backfire eventually some of the RPU staff themselves are finding things are getting worse out there and I myself would'nt touch the thing with a barge pole. Rather help people not fine em.

Infini · 29-04-2016 12:08PM

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

OP I can assure that the so called scrotes are not the problem when it comes to fare evasion on the Dart. I'm traveling on the Dart for over 15 years and I would say the big problems come from the middle and upper classes. I've seen them hop over the fence in Dalkey numerous times I would see the same people do it over and over again and that's just one station. I've seen 6th year students from the local private school buying child tickets and bunking the train, maybe 5 to 10 students at a time. I've reported it many times and the station staff have caught some of them but that is just from 1 station as most of them are travelling to Sandycove, salt hill booterstown and the likes.

Used to have some control on the child tickets because you couldnt get them out of the machine only adult tickets then someone complained etc and they were put back on. Think one older guy was caught by the RPU one day with a child ticket from greystones to bray and was caught up the other end of the line with it.....

MarkAnthony · 29-04-2016 12:08PM

Just got back from my shop in Aldi. It was difficult running with bags full of shopping, and I'm not sure I'll be allowed back but it sure was cheaper not paying!

Infini · 29-04-2016 12:10PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Surprised there seems to be so little ticket checking on the DART. I use the Maynooth line daily and usually get checked every 3/4 weeks, either on the train or leaving the station.

The checking on the mainline might be higher since theres only 1 train an hour either way outside of the rush. Detection would drop drastically on the Dart line because of the higher rate of services every 15min.

devnull · 29-04-2016 12:10PM

The big type of fraud right now is LEAP protected fraud.

Don't tag on at the start of your journey carry a leap with you with a €5 on, tag off on the gates if staff are there and pay €4.70 or don't pay at all if they are not.

I call it leap protected fraud because essentially they are carrying a card to protect themselves against a possible fine with only intention of using it being ot prevent said fine.

That is why it needs to happen ON TRAIN.

devnull · 29-04-2016 12:11PM

Infini2 wrote: »

The checking on the mainline might be higher since theres only 1 train an hour either way outside of the rush. Detection would drop drastically on the Dart line because of the higher rate of services every 15min.

There simply isn't any proper checking at DART only stations. Nothing at all it seems North of Clontarf.

ixoy · 29-04-2016 12:19PM

devnull wrote: »

There simply isn't any proper checking at DART only stations. Nothing at all it seems North of Clontarf.

I don't recall seeing inspections at Clontarf Road much either for that matter. Is it more frequent now?

There was an inspection at Tara Street yesterday morning.

devnull · 29-04-2016 12:27PM

ixoy wrote: »

I don't recall seeing inspections at Clontarf Road much either for that matter. Is it more frequent now?

There was an inspection at Tara Street yesterday morning.

Very rare at Clontarf, but I saw it happen three times in 15 months of using the DART to there.

Tara and Conolly seemed to be the most common places.

Captain Chaos · 29-04-2016 12:37PM

devnull wrote: »

Very rare at Clontarf, but I saw it happen three times in 15 months of using the DART to there.

Tara and Conolly seemed to be the most common places.

It's laughable, they put inspectors on stations that are completely covered by ticket barriers yet non on the un manned stations with barriers left open most of the day.

Couldn't make it up.

Mrs OBumble · 29-04-2016 12:38PM

OP, if someone else (eg a scrote, sic) jumped off a cliff, would you do it?

Did you notice all the other working people around you who did pay? Think about their lives, vs the lads who didn't pay - who do you think is happiest, healthiest and likely to do less time in jail over a lifetime.

Hollister11 · 29-04-2016 01:11PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, if someone else (eg a scrote, sic) jumped off a cliff, would you do it?

Did you notice all the other working people around you who did pay? Think about their lives, vs the lads who didn't pay - who do you think is happiest, healthiest and likely to do less time in jail over a lifetime.

Of course I wouldn't.

But I do find it irritating that I work hard to earn money, to pay for transport to college, and then there's people with no regard for the law who just hop on the train. But the thing that really grinds my boat, is that Irish rail don't seem to give a damn.

Why do I bother paying my DART fare?

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