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The Masonic Square and Compass

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Comments

  • #62
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,741 ✭✭✭Effects


    poa wrote: »
    Any man over 21 years of age, of good character, without a criminal record, can join.

    Is there any leeway on the criminal record part? Surely people can be forgiven for past sins. What happens if someone lies? You don't look it up do you?


  • #63
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    Hayden Ancient Minus wrote: »
    If its so open, why the need for secret handshakes and passwords?
    Also, why do you swear on the bible when you can believe in any 'god' , not necessarily the biblical one who also said don't.swear on the bible in the first instance?

    Muslim Masons swear on the Quran etc.
    But as most Masons in Ireland are Catholic or Protestant the Bible suffices.
    Its just symbolic, and part of an ancient ritual during our degrees.
    Like one swears on the Holy Bible in court before giving evidence.
    The grips (secret handshakes) and words (secret passwords) come from a time when not all Mason's could read and write. So it was another way of identifying oneself as a Mason without having to write something down.
    There was a time when it was dangerous to be a Mason, so they had to keep it a secret.
    The other reason is to prevent non-Masons from entering a lodge during our meetings.
    We don't carry membership cards etc.


  • #64
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    Effects wrote: »
    Is there any leeway on the criminal record part? Surely people can be forgiven for past sins. What happens if someone lies? You don't look it up do you?

    When one applies to join, 3 scrutineers are appointed to meet the candidate and vet them; make enquiries after their character etc. This includes Garda vetting to make sure they don't have a criminal record. Criminals are not allowed to join. If a Mason is convicted of a criminal offence, then they are excluded.


  • #65
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    GavRedKing wrote: »
    I'm going to need a list of those lists before I fully commit to the auld society myself.

    Is there a paramilitary offshoot of the masons that uses bullet points, I wonder?


  • #66
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    Effects wrote: »
    Why are there no graphic or web designers in the Irish Free Masons?

    They aren't (prevented from joining) was the full answer to the question.
    Yes, we have graphic designers and web designers that are members.


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  • #67
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Is there a paramilitary offshoot of the masons that uses bullet points, I wonder?

    Well the other option is that I post all the information in one block of text. Then I have all the slagging about not using paragraphs to break up said block of text. List/paragraph/subparagraph; one can't please everyone. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
    Top answer your question, yes; the Freemasons are affiliated with a paramilitary organisation called the grammar Nazi's. You may have heard of them?


  • #68
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,308 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Is it true that if I were a member of a lodge, and was unfortunate enough to be killed in an accident etc. then the lodge will ensure any dependant children I have are educated to 3rd level?


  • #69
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Is it true that if I were a member of a lodge, and was unfortunate enough to be killed in an accident etc. then the lodge will ensure any dependant children I have are educated to 3rd level?

    Each lodge has a Steward of Charities. Rather like a welfare officer for that lodge. Each case is dealt with individually, and more or less help is given to Mason's widows and spouse depending on their needs. We have annuitants who receive a monthly cheque from Grand Lodge to help with their living costs for life; and also their children's school fees if they cannot afford it. But some Masonic widows do not need the help and decline the offer.
    For example, a member in my lodge lost both parents in the same year; 3 months apart. So he had to pay for 2 funerals within the space of 12 weeks. He was struggling financially to pay for both funerals, so we covered the funeral costs.
    At every lodge meeting we all donate 5 Euro to charity each. All the lodges in the country send this back to Grand Lodge, and then the funds are split between charities. Some are Masonic, and some aren't such as MS Ireland and Parkinsons. We donate to hospices and other charities too.
    There are also some private fee paying Masonic schools, but again on a case-by-case basis the fees are waved for Mason's that cannot afford the fees for their children's education.
    It shouldn't be looked on as some kind of life assurance fund to pay into, but of course like any fraternity or organisation one will always have some that exploit or milk the system; that's human nature. Generally though, Mason's only ask for financial help if they are struggling and really need it.


  • #70
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    poa wrote: »
    There are also some private fee paying Masonic schools, but again on a case-by-case basis the fees are waved for Mason's that cannot afford the fees for their children's education.

    Such as?


  • #71
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    poa wrote: »
    Muslim Masons swear on the Quran etc.
    But as most Masons in Ireland are Catholic or Protestant the Bible suffices.
    Its just symbolic, and part of an ancient ritual during our degrees.
    Like one swears on the Holy Bible in court before giving evidence.
    The grips (secret handshakes) and words (secret passwords) come from a time when not all Mason's could read and write. So it was another way of identifying oneself as a Mason without having to write something down.
    There was a time when it was dangerous to be a Mason, so they had to keep it a secret.
    The other reason is to prevent non-Masons from entering a lodge during our meetings.
    We don't carry membership cards etc.

    I dont swear on the bible when in court. I affirm that my answers are true. Do we take it that a masons word isnt sufficient? How about the injunction in the bible to not swear on it or anything else?
    How about those that believe in nature and not a god. What do they do?

    Whats so secretive that your meetings are open to non masons...of course I dont expect you to tell us:)



    What are the Masonic charities an schools ?


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  • #72
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,741 ✭✭✭Effects


    poa wrote: »
    They aren't (prevented from joining) was the full answer to the question.
    Yes, we have graphic designers and web designers that are members.

    I feel your website and graphic design let you guys down. You need to up your game.

    I've been to the lodge in Dublin a good few times. You guys are always really sound and welcoming.


  • #73
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    smash wrote: »
    Such as?

    Google: Masonic schools.
    The OP posted a question about a Masonic symbol he saw on a car's numberplate.
    I answered the question.
    I am not here as a Google for Irish Freemasonry, asking questions about Irish Masonic schools is off topic and derails the thread fast.
    If you want to know, then Google it.
    Try to appreciate, there is one of me; with say 10 people all asking me random questions about Freemasonry.
    You think I am going to copy and paste a list of Masonic schools for you here? Be serious lad.


  • #74
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,367 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    poa wrote: »
    Google: Masonic schools.
    The OP posted a question about a Masonic symbol he saw on a car's numberplate.
    I answered the question.
    I am not here as a Google for Irish Freemasonry, asking questions about Irish Masonic schools is off topic and derails the thread fast.
    If you want to know, then Google it.
    Try to appreciate, there is one of me; with say 10 people all asking me random questions about Freemasonry.
    You think I am going to copy and paste a list of Masonic schools for you here? Be serious lad.


    you are a more patient man than me Gunga Din


  • #75
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    poa wrote: »
    Google: Masonic schools.

    I googled 'Masonic schools Ireland' and any links it brought back are about schools which are now closed. It appears they were orphanages.


  • #76
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    Hayden Ancient Minus wrote: »
    I dont swear on the bible when in court. I affirm that my answers are true. Do we take it that a masons word isnt sufficient? How about the injunction in the bible to not swear on it or anything else?
    How about those that believe in nature and not a god. What do they do?

    Whats so secretive that your meetings are open to non masons...of course I dont expect you to tell us:)

    What are the Masonic charities an schools ?

    Mason's swear an oath on the Bible as part of their ritual during degrees. Its symbolic.
    I don't know about the injunction, nor do I care to be honest with you.
    I sworn on the Bible when giving evidence in court as a witness, and also in Masonic lodges. It's no big deal to me, just a promise to tell the truth under oath.
    As far as I know, the Masons I have met have all believed in God; not nature, so I can't answer how a nature believing one would handle things.
    Some of our meeting discusses charity, and some of it Masonic business such as upcoming dinner, and social events.
    We don't allow non-Masons into our meetings, as some Masonic business is private. Such as the payment of cheques to annuitants etc. And the welfare of Mason's in need is discussed privately not publically. For example, if a Mason is struggling financially, he might not want that being broadcast as gossip to all and sundry in his local town/pub/business etc.
    So we keep some things private, like many clubs or societies; some information is members only, and some is public.


  • #77
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    smash wrote: »
    I googled 'Masonic schools Ireland' and any links it brought back are about schools which are now closed. It appears they were orphanages.

    OK here is an example of a Masonic school for you:

    I am not allowed to post links yet as I am a new user.

    So Google: Royal Masonic School Hertfordshire


  • #78
    poa
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 541 ✭✭✭poa


    The OP posted a question, I answered it. But now I feel this thread has turned into something else; ask POA 100 questions on Irish Freemasonry, so it's been dragged off topic. I have answered my fair share and questions, and taken some of the banter and p.iss taking in good faith, but I think it's time to lock the thread. You all need to respect there is one of me, and many of you asking questions; some sensible and some stupid, that can be answered with 30 seconds of Googling. As I said before, I am not here to talk up Freemasonry or encourage anyone to join. This is After Hours, and I like some craic and humour; but the thread is boring me now as it's all take no give, and I am not getting anything out of it. So I won't be answering any more questions or posting on this thread.


  • #79
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    poa wrote: »
    The OP posted a question, I answered it. But now I feel this thread has turned into something else; ask POA 100 questions on Irish Freemasonry, so it's been dragged off topic. I have answered my fair share and questions, and taken some of the banter and p.iss taking in good faith, but I think it's time to lock the thread. You all need to respect there is one of me, and many of you asking questions; some sensible and some stupid, that can be answered with 30 seconds of Googling. As I said before, I am not here to talk up Freemasonry or encourage anyone to join. This is After Hours, and I like some craic and humour; but the thread is boring me now as it's all take no give, and I am not getting anything out of it. So I won't be answering any more questions or posting on this thread.

    You're the one who brought up that you were a mqson . you're also the one who brought up the existence of masonic schools and charities.
    Ad it was you who was the source of this information, its not unreasonable to ask you for further clarification.
    If you don't want to answer, that's fine but please stop playing the martyr.

    Interesting that you don't care about what it says in the book you give so much weight to in your ceremonies.
    I'm able to affirm I'm court that the evidence I give is the truth. That masons need to swear an oath and that their word wasnt sufficient would raise questions for me


  • #80
    OU812
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭OU812


    What's the benefits of being a mason?


  • #81
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    poa wrote: »
    OK, let me break it down to a simpler level that you can understand.
    He was taking the p.iss saying web designers can't join.
    I.e: the website is crap.
    But you didn't get that did you? You took it literally.
    Any man over 21 years of age, of good character, without a criminal record, can join.
    Graphic designers, web designers, included.
    Got it now? Yes, they can join.

    What does 'of good character' mean exactly?

    Good work ethic etc?


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  • #82
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    OU812 wrote: »
    What's the benefits of being a mason?

    You get to roll up your trouser leg and do a secret handshake.


  • #83
    VictorRomeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 297 ✭✭VictorRomeo


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    MOD
    Can you tone down the comments aimed at others please and keep the discussion civil?

    Indeed. I certainly never meant for this to occur. WFT is wrong with people?


  • #84
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    VictorRomeo wrote: »
    Indeed. I certainly never meant for this to occur. WFT is wrong with people?

    They are not of good character.


  • #85
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    So basically, it's a club?

    Yes, there's a specific set of rules, and private stuff that they don't want people to hear, and some people take it way too seriously?

    It sounds like every other club, or association I've ever heard off. It might not interest me, but if that's your gig, and it's not causing harm to anyone, knock yourself right out.

    The residents association around here are every bit as odd.

    I think my Granddad might have been a Mason. I'm sure I remember my Mam showing me his signet ring, years ago.


  • #86
    ectoraige
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    OU812 wrote: »
    What's the benefits of being a mason?

    Exempt from M50 tolls one you reach the higher levels, and free Gherkins in Wendy's upon request. Maybe this needs to be stickied?


  • #87
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I don't think our resident Master Mason is coming back :(


  • #88
    sligojoek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,420 ✭✭✭✭sligojoek


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Is there a paramilitary offshoot of the masons that uses bullet points, I wonder?
    Yes. They're called the Continuity Masons.


  • #89
    Absolam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Hayden Ancient Minus wrote: »
    I dont swear on the bible when in court. I affirm that my answers are true. Do we take it that a masons word isnt sufficient? How about the injunction in the bible to not swear on it or anything else?
    How about those that believe in nature and not a god. What do they do?
    Are you referring to the oaths Masons take as Masons, or just a Mason's word in general?
    Hayden Ancient Minus wrote: »
    Whats so secretive that your meetings are open to non masons...of course I dont expect you to tell us:)
    Is there a reason a private club would have public meetings?
    Hayden Ancient Minus wrote: »
    What are the Masonic charities an schools ?
    If it helps there are currently nine registered Masonic Charities in Ireland, though those aren't the only charities Masonic Lodges provide funds to. The old Masonic Boys School and Masonic Girls School were closed down and their assets sold off when the Irish State free education system became so prevalent that there was no need for them; the value now resides in the two registered Charities 20001315 Masonic Boys Benefit Fund and 20001292 Masonic Female Orphan School where it is still used for the purposes of education.


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