Pet dog kills 3 day old in California

Sheep Lover · 23-04-2016 07:35PM

jonon9 wrote: »

People's hygiene standards.

So having a three day old baby in close proximity to a dog is appropriate depending on people's hygiene standards?

Spanish Eyes · 23-04-2016 07:39PM

Dog was the baby before baby arrived.

Baby arrived, dog jealous, baby gone. Dog gone too now I hope.

Parents bereft. I make no judgements. Sad story, but maybe a lesson to others.

Boardz Fiend · 23-04-2016 07:39PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Right, so you haven't grown up around pit bulls, thought as much.

German Shepherds have stronger bite force.

You mentioned pit bulls specifically in your OP, can you quote some statistics around the frequency of them biting?

So this thread was intended to highlight the stupidity of the parents. However, yes I happened to mention pitbull in the OP and so I will address your points and then I'm done -

1) Correct, I have not grown up around pitbulls. You dont need to own a pitbull to form informed and sensible opinions about them
2) I would consider this a moot point. What does a German Shepherds having a stronger bite force have anything to do with this?
3) You want statistics? Ok, being a new member to boards I am not permitted to post links which is a little inconvenient so I will just list the data which can be found easily via google. ..

- Time Magazine published data from Merritt Clifton who recorded Pitbull related attacks and deaths over a 32 year period. He found that even though pitbulls accounted for only 6% of the dog population, they were responsible for 68% of attacks and 52% of deaths.

- Another report published in the April 2011 issue of Annals of Surgery found that one person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days, two people are injured by a pit bull every day, and young children are especially at risk. The report concludes that “these breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards, are regulated.” That report was shared with TIME by PETA, the world’s largest animal-rights organization.

- A five-year review of dog-bite injuries from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, published in 2009 in the journal Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, found that almost 51 percent of the attacks were from pit bulls, almost 9 percent were from Rottweilers and 6 percent were from mixes of those two breeds.

- 1982-2014 study by Merritt Clifton: Even if the pit bull category was "split four ways," attacks by pit bulls and their closest relatives would still outnumber attacks by any other dog breed.

jonon9 · 23-04-2016 07:40PM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

So having a three day old baby in close proximity to a dog is appropriate depending on people's hygiene standards?

Im talking about your hygiene remark, having a dog next to a baby is a different subject altogether.

23-04-2016 07:52PM

jonon9 wrote: »

I see it as an unfortunate accident, they didn't know the dog would do that if they did they wouldn't have let the dog on the bed not even in the house but you seem to tar all dogs.

Accident suggests something that happens by chance or unexpectedly.

A dog biting a child near it is surely at least reasonably foreseeable.

KERSPLAT! · 23-04-2016 07:59PM

Poor baby, only a few days old. I know babies and kids die all over the world every day but reading about specific cases like this and the likes of the accident in Buncrana is absolutely heartbreaking.

melissak · 23-04-2016 08:18PM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Oh dear god, what sort of retarded arseholes allow a dog like that anywhere near a newborn!

Apart from the fact the child is so little and fragile, dogs no matter how well washed they may be, carry germs and all sorts of bacteria that could be harmful to a baby.

The parents are fully responsible for their own child's death, they'll live with that guilt for the rest of their lives but in my opinion that's not punishment enough for their reckless behaviour.

What punishment would you give them that could be worse?

Discodog · 23-04-2016 08:29PM

The dog could of just as easily suffocated the baby by accident such as laying on it. Children should never be left with dogs because you can't trust the child. As for the rubbish about bite pressures etc any dog can inflict serious injuries. A family Labrador could do just as much damage.

There is a lot of good advice about preparing a dog for the arrival of a new baby. Unfortunately the arrival of a baby is one of the reasons why people get rid of dogs.

screamer · 23-04-2016 08:41PM

Discodog wrote: »

The dog could of just as easily suffocated the baby by accident such as laying on it. Children should never be left with dogs because you can't trust the child. .

More like can't trust the dog....

freedominacup · 23-04-2016 08:43PM

Boardz Fiend wrote: »

So this thread was intended to highlight the stupidity of the parents. However, yes I happened to mention pitbull in the OP and so I will address your points and then I'm done -

1) Correct, I have not grown up around pitbulls. You dont need to own a pitbull to form informed and sensible opinions about them
2) I would consider this a moot point. What does a German Shepherds having a stronger bite force have anything to do with this?
3) You want statistics? Ok, being a new member to boards I am not permitted to post links which is a little inconvenient so I will just list the data which can be found easily via google. ..

- Time Magazine published data from Merritt Clifton who recorded Pitbull related attacks and deaths over a 32 year period. He found that even though pitbulls accounted for only 6% of the dog population, they were responsible for 68% of attacks and 52% of deaths.

- Another report published in the April 2011 issue of Annals of Surgery found that one person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days, two people are injured by a pit bull every day, and young children are especially at risk. The report concludes that “these breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards, are regulated.” That report was shared with TIME by PETA, the world’s largest animal-rights organization.

- A five-year review of dog-bite injuries from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, published in 2009 in the journal Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, found that almost 51 percent of the attacks were from pit bulls, almost 9 percent were from Rottweilers and 6 percent were from mixes of those two breeds.

- 1982-2014 study by Merritt Clifton: Even if the pit bull category was "split four ways," attacks by pit bulls and their closest relatives would still outnumber attacks by any other dog breed.

Hey this is afterhours. Where do you think you're going with well reasoned arguments backed up by peer reviewed research? We'll be having none of that in here.

Boardz Fiend · 23-04-2016 08:45PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Hey this is afterhours. Where do you think you're going with well reasoned arguments backed up by peer reviewed research? We'll be having none of that in here.

Pmsl :-) :-)

23-04-2016 08:47PM

screamer wrote: »

More like can't trust the dog....

As neither can articulate their reasons for doing anything, our understanding of what a baby or a dog can do has certain restrictions. Either or both could do something that the parents may almost certainly not have intended...but again they should have reasonably foreseen that there was the possibility of something serious happening.

Discodog · 23-04-2016 09:02PM

screamer wrote: »

More like can't trust the dog....

Well some people would believe that & they won't change their minds. Most dogs live in a strange World where they understand us but we don't understand them. My parents taught me, from a very early age, how to behave around dogs.

A survey done by a Vet revealed the terrifying fact that most young children, when shown a photo of a snarling dog, thought that it was smiling. If we allocated two hours for dog behaviour education in our primary schools we could avoid hundreds of injuries.

esforum · 23-04-2016 09:29PM

3 days old, Jesus.

Someone above said it already but NO dog can be trusted 100%, none. Doesnt matter about breed, size, age or how long they have been a part of your family.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 23-04-2016 09:33PM

I bring my dogs out a lot for walks/to the park and the amount of parents that will lead their child over to the dogs, and let the kid be all up in the dogs space.
Now, I trust my dogs to the end of the earth. I love my dogs to pieces. If I was living on my last few euro I'd make sure they were fed before myself or my partner. But - I can't read their minds. I don't know if they're feeling threathened or feeling scared. I don't know how they'll act around a stranger, much less a noisey hyper little stranger and God forbid they did bite a child. I'd be guilty forever. But parents don't like being told their kids can't touch the dogs, or to leave the dogs alone. Sometimes it feels I'm responsible for keeping my dogs calm and not stressed out, and keeping strange kids safe when their own parents don't seem too bothered.

I wonder what sort of life the dog in the OP had if the sound of someone suddenly coughing made him go on the offensive straight away? It's unusual. And although staffies look fierce if they're socialised and treated with respect they're actually a very placid and kind dog.

I know my two, if they got into bed, you'd need a foghorn to wake them up, never mind a cough. The owners of the dog possibly rehomed him/rescued him from an abusive situation or they weren't the most responsible dog owners out there.

The poor baby, the child didn't stand a chance. I think a lot of people who own those ferocious looking dogs are doing it for their reputation and have no idea how to look after the dog properly. Having the previous baby of the house in such close proximity to the new baby of the house, a newborn baby, is reckless to say the least. The parents have to live with that. Is that punishment enough?

melissak · 23-04-2016 09:38PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I bring my dogs out a lot for walks/to the park and the amount of parents that will lead their child over to the dogs, and let the kid be all up in the dogs space.
Now, I trust my dogs to the end of the earth. I love my dogs to pieces. If I was living on my last few euro I'd make sure they were fed before myself or my partner. But - I can't read their minds. I don't know if they're feeling threathened or feeling scared. I don't know how they'll act around a stranger, much less a noisey hyper little stranger and God forbid they did bite a child. I'd be guilty forever. But parents don't like being told their kids can't touch the dogs, or to leave the dogs alone. Sometimes it feels I'm responsible for keeping my dogs calm and not stressed out, and keeping strange kids safe when their own parents don't seem too bothered.

I wonder what sort of life the dog in the OP had if the sound of someone suddenly coughing made him go on the offensive straight away? It's unusual. And although staffies look fierce if they're socialised and treated with respect they're actually a very placid and kind dog.

I know my two, if they got into bed, you'd need a foghorn to wake them up, never mind a cough. The owners of the dog possibly rehomed him/rescued him from an abusive situation or they weren't the most responsible dog owners out there.

The poor baby, the child didn't stand a chance. I think a lot of people who own those ferocious looking dogs are doing it for their reputation and have no idea how to look after the dog properly. Having the previous baby of the house in such close proximity to the new baby of the house, a newborn baby, is reckless to say the least. The parents have to live with that. Is that punishment enough?

Yes. You would have to be very cold hearted to think this was not punishment enough for a mistake. I hope people who think otherwise never have to learn empathy the hard way.

fima · 23-04-2016 09:42PM

Discodog wrote: »

The dog could of just as easily suffocated the baby by accident such as laying on it. Children should never be left with dogs because you can't trust the child. As for the rubbish about bite pressures etc any dog can inflict serious injuries. A family Labrador could do just as much damage.

There is a lot of good advice about preparing a dog for the arrival of a new baby. Unfortunately the arrival of a baby is one of the reasons why people get rid of dogs.

Dogs should never be left with children because you can't trust the dog.

Boardz Fiend · 23-04-2016 10:45PM

Discodog wrote: »

The dog could of just as easily suffocated the baby by accident such as laying on it. Children should never be left with dogs because you can't trust the child. As for the rubbish about bite pressures etc any dog can inflict serious injuries. A family Labrador could do just as much damage.

There is a lot of good advice about preparing a dog for the arrival of a new baby. Unfortunately the arrival of a baby is one of the reasons why people get rid of dogs.

I agree a lab could do as much damage, its just far less likely to.
Bite pressure is rubbish, really? If a dog had its jaws locked onto your b@llox would you be hoping that dog had a bite pressure of 230Ibs or 120Ibs?

melissak · 23-04-2016 10:46PM

Boardz Fiend wrote: »

I agree a lab could do as much damage, its just far less likely to.
Bite pressure is rubbish, really? If a dog had its jaws locked onto your b@llox would you be hoping that dog had a bite pressure of 230Ibs or 120Ibs?

Is it not that pit bull types can't let go when they lock their jaws and thus do more damage? Maybe this is a myth.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 23-04-2016 10:52PM

Boardz Fiend wrote: »

I agree a lab could do as much damage, its just far less likely to.
Bite pressure is rubbish, really? If a dog had its jaws locked onto your b@llox would you be hoping that dog had a bite pressure of 230Ibs or 120Ibs?

Any dog that's not socialised properly or has been abused is liable to do the same. There's a lot of idiots that keep pitbulls/staffies, who can barely look after themselves never mind a high maintenance dog. It's "status" and the dog suffers

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 23-04-2016 10:56PM

melissak wrote: »

Is it not that pit bull types can't let go when they lock their jaws and thus do more damage? Maybe this is a myth.

Nah it's not. I know a guy who has a pitbull, (he was trying to get me to take him in) and he's a typical asshole owner. He has videos up of his pitbull (rocky) jumping at a rope hanging out of a tree and that dog can jump and grip that rope and swing out of it and it being 4/5ft off the ground.

The dog sees nobody from one day to the next and he's been roughly handled for years. He's a beautiful animal but seeing videos of him with a rope, I think if he got hold of a person like that he'd have no trouble seriously injuring them.

Jimoslimos · 23-04-2016 11:04PM

Discodog wrote: »

A survey done by a Vet revealed the terrifying fact that most young children, when shown a photo of a snarling dog, thought that it was smiling. If we allocated two hours for dog behaviour education in our primary schools we could avoid hundreds of injuries.

Ah victim blaming. Good stuff, carry on.

Sheep Lover · 23-04-2016 11:07PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Now, I trust my dogs to the end of the earth.

How though? I really don't get this.

How can you trust an animal that has no comprehension between right and wrong or the difference between friend or foe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a dog person, I like dogs, but do I trust them? No.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 23-04-2016 11:26PM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

How though? I really don't get this.

How can you trust an animal that has no comprehension between right and wrong or the difference between friend or foe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a dog person, I like dogs, but do I trust them? No.

I trust them with me. I trust that they're not going to bite my face off if I'm giving them kisses, i trust them not to snap my hand if I put it down to take their food away. I have no fear of them with me because they are content and safe and relaxed. When I had my female dog with her puppies, I trusted her not to maul me when I was picking them up a few hours old.

Would I trust them around a small child? No. It's not that I don't trust them - I know they're good dogs, I just don't know if they'll be scared or upset, I would assume they would be okay around young children however that 1% doubt for me isn't worth taking. A split second is all it takes. A child to startle him, pull his tail or accidently step on his paw. Sure, he could give a warning. But he might not. And although I feel it's highly unlikely, I am no dr Doolittle and can't read their minds so I do what I can to keep them safe and not stressed, and any kids that theyre in contact with safe.

They are extremely jealous of my other half, they own me. So it takes them a bit of getting used to not being the centre of attention.

Tl;dr
They're good dogs but they're spoilt and I can't read their minds. So not worth taking a chance however unlikely I assume it is to happen

Sonics2k · 23-04-2016 11:40PM

fima wrote: »

Dogs should never be left with children because you can't trust the dog.

Absolute dribble.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 23-04-2016 11:44PM

You can't trust any dog around a small child simple as that.I would think that having any breed of dog around a child who isn't at least 8 or 9 is taking a risk.

We've a basset hound and he is completely harmless and bassets are a very docile breed from my experience and by reputation (there is a picture on wikipedia of a baby lying on one) and even I wouldn't feel comfortable having small children around our dog.

What these people did is incredibly irresponsible and sadly they're going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 23-04-2016 11:45PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Absolute dribble.

No it's not.Dogs are animals , they can get spooked by things and can snap and bite without meaning any harm, they can knock young children over by running into them etc etc.

iguana · 23-04-2016 11:46PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I have to wonder about how well-treated this dog was if it got so startled by a cough and reacted like that.

It does seem like a crazy thing to make the dog react as it did. Then again, maybe there is an innocent history behind the dog's reaction. My dogs used to react to 'sshhh' sounds as if there was a cat, because one time they saw me petting a cat and calling to it by going, 'shwsh shwsh.' So when I 'sshhh-d' my son when he was little the dogs were immediately on alert for a cat.

Also when I initially brought my son home they clearly thought he was a big squeaky teddy that we had obviously gotten for them but were for some odd reason not giving to them. They got very frustrated and upset for the first few minutes. We had to keep the dogs and baby in separate rooms until we all calmed down and then introduce him to the dogs one by one in carefully controlled conditions over the next few days. It can be easy to misjudge how a dog will react to a new baby. And none of us will no what that dog was thinking in that moment.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Apart from the fact the child is so little and fragile, dogs no matter how well washed they may be, carry germs and all sorts of bacteria that could be harmful to a baby.

bee06 wrote: »

Unfortunate is a bit of an understatement. Any dog in bed with a 3 day old baby is ridiculous from a hygiene or safety perspective.

From a hygiene perspective, unless the particular baby is immuno-compromised, being in such close quarters with a dog actually has many, many health benefits. Children who spend their first year of life living closely with a dog that is often outdoors have significantly lower rates of allergies and 6 times less incidence of common childhood ailments for at least the first decade of their life.

jimgoose · 23-04-2016 11:47PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Absolute dribble.

A dog can turn on tenpence. Anyone who trusts a dog completely with small children either knows nothing about dogs, or they are a blithering idiot.

frogstar · 23-04-2016 11:53PM

Some posts are wondering how the dog was treated to act like that with a cough.

My collie gets startled with a cough or clearing of throat. She is treated very well and great temperment but little things do startle her. Theme tune to fair city and eastenders does too.

She can be in such a deep sleep that a cough would make her jump and wonder what is happening or where she is. So this part of the story did not phase me. But no way should any dog be in bed with a baby that young.

Pet dog kills 3 day old in California

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