Who has been the best Taoiseach we ever had?

ohnonotgmail · 22-04-2016 02:06PM

Garrett Fitzgerald

Bambi wrote: »

Ahern was the master of charisma. Haughey only appealed to a certain type with his autocratic style.

Haughey had class that Ahern could never even dream of.

22-04-2016 02:20PM

Bambi wrote: »

Reprisals and extrajudicial killings were the official policy of Cosgraves government.

There was a reason why the anti treaty side started targeting free state ministers

We also now know that they knew of the actions and illegality at Government level but took no steps to deal with the parties involved. While obviously figures like Paddy Daly were more directly involved, Cosgrave and others knew well what he was at.

hmmm · 22-04-2016 03:25PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

While Reynolds did do some good, I couldn't entertain the notion of a corrupt Taoiseach being mentioned in a discussion about our best. Honesty and integrity should be the minimum qualifying criteria IMO

Eh? Albert Reynolds was not corrupt.

recylingbin · 22-04-2016 03:27PM

Garrett Fitzgerald

If Michael O'Leary was taoiseach...[insert bullsh*t here]

Richard Hillman · 22-04-2016 03:38PM

History will be very kind to Enda Kenny

LiamoSail · 22-04-2016 03:38PM

hmmm wrote: »

Eh? Albert Reynolds was not corrupt.

So why did he divert the Government jet to the Bahama's, to make an unscheduled visit, shortly after meeting property developer Owen O'Callaghan (who was found to have made corrupt payments) in a bedroom in the early hours of the morning following a FF fundraiser?

It must also be a coincidence that the IDA, under Reynolds direction, proved a thorn in the side for Tom Gilmartin in his attempts to develop Quarryvale. Suspiciously enough, this aided the above mentioned Owen O'Callaghan's attempt to take over Gilmartin's company.

recylingbin · 22-04-2016 03:40PM

Garrett Fitzgerald

Richard Hillman wrote: »

History will be very kind to Enda Kenny

It will if its written by Germans.

Mycroft H · 22-04-2016 03:41PM

Eamon de Valera

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Responsible for the execution of far more Irish men than even the British managed in 1916. Also presided at a time when massacres like Ballyseedy took place, over a regime that engaged in policies like shooting people in the legs before tying explosives to them as happened Cahersiveen.

A fine democrat alright...

All true. He wasn't perfect.

In the context of the time, no civil war leader came out without some sort of blood on their hands.

hmmm · 22-04-2016 03:42PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

So why did he divert the Government jet to the Bahama's, to make an unscheduled visit, shortly after meeting property developer Owen O'Callaghan (who was found to have made corrupt payments) in a bedroom in the early hours of the morning following a FF fundraiser?

It must also be a coincidence that the IDA, under Reynolds direction, proved a thorn in the side for Tom Gilmartin in his attempts to develop Quarryvale. Suspiciously enough, this aided the above mentioned Owen O'Callaghan's attempt to take over Gilmartin's company.

In other words, "you" think he was corrupt. Fair enough, I'll have to disagree.

piplip87 · 22-04-2016 03:43PM

Garrett Fitzgerald

They mostly have had some great moments. Bertie and Charlie at their best (Not screwing the rest of us) Easily trumps any of the rest of them.

smash · 22-04-2016 03:44PM

Charlie Haughey.... Now there's a man who knew how to dress well!

:pac:

NoCrackHaving · 22-04-2016 03:46PM

People's opinion on Jack Lynch?

I know his handling of Northern Ireland and the Arms crisis can be criticised depending on your politics but he did introduce free secondary school education, EEC membership, redundancy payments and maternity benefits as well as free public transport for pensioners during his 1st term. However his 2nd term was a complete economic disaster so I guess much of his political leadership balanced itself out.

22-04-2016 03:52PM

3 picked John Bruton.

John Bruton!

Man you'd wanna be dyed in the wool FG to think of him.

recylingbin · 22-04-2016 03:54PM

Garrett Fitzgerald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

3 picked John Bruton.

John Bruton!

Man you'd wanna be dyed in the wool FG to think of him.

There appears to be a disproportional amount of fine gaelers on this site, judging by the poll.

ohnonotgmail · 22-04-2016 03:54PM

Garrett Fitzgerald

Deleted User wrote: »

3 picked John Bruton.

John Bruton!

Man you'd wanna be dyed in the wool FG to think of him.

i dont think even they are that fond of him

12Phase · 22-04-2016 03:56PM

Albert Reynolds

Angela Merkel

diomed · 22-04-2016 04:07PM

Cowan's mistake was taking the hospital pass from Bertie.

LiamoSail · 22-04-2016 04:12PM

hmmm wrote: »

In other words, "you" think he was corrupt. Fair enough, I'll have to disagree.

It's hard to consider him otherwise given what came out in the Mahon Tribunal.

whisky_galore · 22-04-2016 04:19PM

Mycroft H wrote: »

And when the time came to to hand power over to FF and Dev, an untrustworthy bunch who carried guns to the first day of the new Dail, he stood aside because that's what you do when you're voted out. He was a democrat.

FF and Dev were voted in by the people, that's democracy as well.

Cosgrave didn't bring guns into the Dail, the Army used them quite effectively outside of it without any of the perpetrators being made accountable afterwards.

LiamoSail · 22-04-2016 04:19PM

diomed wrote: »

Cowan's mistake was taking the hospital pass from Bertie.

That and narrowing the tax base, increasing public spending to unsustainable levels, supporting tax breaks for property developers and stimulating the sector, facilitating the banks wreckless lending and failing to recognise that the banks were facing solvency rather than liquidity problems, coupled with his inability to recognise that his role was to act in the country's best interest, not his party's.

I do believe that Cowan inherited a poisoned chalice from Ahern, but having been Minister for Finance in the preceding years, he had a big role in the management of the economy

NoCrackHaving · 22-04-2016 04:23PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

FF and Dev were voted in by the people, that's democracy as well.

Cosgrave didn't bring guns into the Dail, the Army used them quite effectively outside of it without any of the perpetrators being made accountable afterwards.

Cosgrave was a butcher, the amount of executions carried out under his leadership was disgraceful, that of Childers in particular was particularly horrible. No one came out of the Civil War without blood on their hands but Cosgrave happily waded through seas of it.

hmmm · 22-04-2016 04:24PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

It's hard to consider him otherwise given what came out in the Mahon Tribunal.

That's the report that explicitly stated that he was not corrupt of course, but go on.

toptom · 22-04-2016 04:24PM

John A. Costello

Eamon DeValera was our man of steel, We had a good orderly society which didn't start to crumble until after his death. People had respect for authority when he was alive,

Mycroft H · 22-04-2016 04:26PM

Eamon de Valera

whisky_galore wrote: »

FF and Dev were voted in by the people, that's democracy as well.

Cosgrave didn't bring guns into the Dail, the Army used them quite effectively outside of it without any of the perpetrators being made accountable afterwards.

Several FF TDs brought guns into the dail after the 32 election

NoCrackHaving · 22-04-2016 04:27PM

toptom wrote: »

Eamon DeValera was our man of steel, We had a good orderly society which didn't start to crumble until after his death. People had respect for authority when he was alive,

Ah here, even as piss taking goes that takes some beating.

Very good

whisky_galore · 22-04-2016 04:28PM

Mycroft H wrote: »

Several FF TDs brought guns into the dail after the 32 election

Was there anyone shot in the Dail?? Any extrajudicial killings I'm unaware of??

toptom · 22-04-2016 04:30PM

John A. Costello

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Ah here, even as piss taking goes that takes some beating.

Very good

What are you on about ? Have ye any respect for the man, He was our George Washingtong Didn't he keep us self sufficient and out of war,

K-9 · 22-04-2016 04:43PM

Jack Lynch

Lemass:

Pros: Dragged us into the EEC, saw the benefits of free trade earlier than others. A progressive on N.I.

Cons: Those reforms should have been introduced quicker. Debatable on how much that was down to him.

2. FF minority Government.

Pros: McSharry, The National interest from FG and Dukes

Cons: Haughey brought it down over something that could have been worked out.

3. Cumann na Gael.

4. Lynch FF. Avoided a real threat of another Irish Civil war.

5. The Rainbow.

6. FF/Labour

7. FG/Labour in 82, disastrous economically but divorce and abortion got discussed openly for the first time.

8. First Inter party Government. FG/Labour/Clan na Poblachta/The Farmers Party.

Coalitions could work, even opposites, note to 2016 Dail.

9. FF/PD 97-02. The rest was one of the worst but 97-02 was good.

10. FG/Labour 11-16

Uninspiring but did a job.

whisky_galore · 22-04-2016 04:46PM

toptom wrote: »

What are you on about ? Have ye any respect for the man, He was our George Washingtong Didn't he keep us self sufficient and out of war,

A 'George Washington' might be over egging the pudding just a tad.

Keeping us out of the war (at least actively, as we did lend passive support to the Allies) made sense.
We didn't get any aid from the Marshall Plan but at least our town and cities were spared a pummelling and mass loss of life.

Think he gets a hard time these days, but that's what you get when you happen to be dour and charmless which is what he was.

NoCrackHaving · 22-04-2016 04:57PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

A 'George Washington' might be over egging the pudding just a tad.

Keeping us out of the war (at least actively, as we did lend passive support to the Allies) made sense.
We didn't get any aid from the Marshall Plan but at least our town and cities were spared a pummelling and mass loss of life.

Think he gets a hard time these days, but that's what you get when you happen to be dour and charmless which is what he was.

With the exception of keeping Ireland out of WWII (something which is massively understated as a positive) he was a fairly poor leader presiding over a disastrous trade war with Britain and creating a dull and economically stagnant country. The poverty of Ireland during Dev's reign was simply incredible and he has a large role to play in doing little to alleviate that. Also he did nothing to help the workers and cemented the control of the Catholic Church over Irish society. He was extremely conservative both economically and socially at a time when Ireland needed radical new approaches in politics.

Who has been the best Taoiseach we ever had?

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