Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

1…3940424445

Comments

  • #1232
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Gebgbegb wrote: »
    In percentage terms, the level of educational attainment in Public Sector is higher than private.

    Are people really 50% more qualified in the public sector than in the private? I very much doubt it. Irish twenty- and thirty-somethings are very well qualified. They work in jobs requiring very specific knowledge in sectors such as pharmaceuticals, software development, financial services, medical devices and business consulting. None of these compares poorly to requirements for public services, army etc.

    You make one HUGE presumption in all this, which can’t go unchecked. You presume that any third level qualification automatically justifies a higher wage. It doesn’t, the value that a worker with a higher level of education provides may justify a higher wage, but the experience of recent very well educated migrants to Ireland is surely proof enough that qualifications do not automatically justifiy a higher wage in the real world.

    As as said before, which you have not grasped yet:
    what the experts did was compare a secretary in the public service with one in private sector, a vet in the public service with one in the private sector, an architectural technician in the public sector with one in the private sector etc..and they found that overall " Even adjusted for education, skills and experience, we have a significant pay premium in the public sector, and that’s an issue that has to be part of the post-crisis discussion."
    http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sect...37290-Aug2014/


    “Even when you adjust for qualifications, experience and length of service, the public sector workers still enjoy a significant pay premium over their private sector counterparts,” Ibec economist Fergal O’Brien said
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/e...ctor-1.1907313


  • #1233
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    maryishere wrote: »
    Are people really 50% more qualified in the public sector than in the private? I very much doubt it.

    Who said 50% more qualified?

    Anyhow I'll put up the link for you again. The latest figures I can obtain for you are for 2009... (Unlike your pay figures quotes in The Journal which they admitted fluctuate between Public and Private on a regular basis!)

    Actually I'll save you the bother..(the link is back in a previous post you didn;t bother addressing).
    Public sector 3rd level degree(or higher level) was at 37% whereas the Private sector was at 23%
    maryishere wrote: »
    Irish twenty- and thirty-somethings are very well qualified.

    Bully for them, and you'll find some of them work in the public sector too!
    maryishere wrote: »
    They work in jobs requiring very specific knowledge in sectors such as pharmaceuticals, software development, financial services, medical devices and business consulting. None of these compares poorly to requirements for public services, army etc.

    Again, so what, balance out the above private sector workers with every single unqualified/unskilled labour in the private sector and it negates you assertion.
    maryishere wrote: »
    You make one HUGE presumption in all this, which can’t go unchecked. You presume that any third level qualification automatically justifies a higher wage.

    It doesn't 'JUSTIFY' a higher wage, it just means that that is what happens, whether we like it or not, whether it be in the public or private sector.
    More Education = More Money!
    The levels of education in the public sector are higher!
    maryishere wrote: »
    the value that a worker with a higher level of education provides may justify a higher wage, ...
    whether it is justified or not that is just what happens (public or private sector!).
    maryishere wrote: »
    but the experience of recent very well educated migrants to Ireland is surely proof enough that qualifications do not automatically justifiy a higher wage in the real world.
    Dunno what your reaching at there! Are you saying Ireland is not in the real world or something?
    maryishere wrote: »
    As as said before, which you have not grasped yet:

    Yes, and did you notice the part in the article that also stated that the data was flawed, and liable to switch depending on when the results are taken!!!!

    maryishere wrote: »
    what the experts did was compare a secretary in the public service with one in private sector, a vet in the public service with one in the private sector, an architectural technician in the public sector with one in the private sector etc..and they found that overall " Even adjusted for education, skills and experience, we have a significant pay premium in the public sector, and that’s an issue that has to be part of the post-crisis discussion."
    http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sect...37290-Aug2014/


    “Even when you adjust for qualifications, experience and length of service, the public sector workers still enjoy a significant pay premium over their private sector counterparts,” Ibec economist Fergal O’Brien said
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/e...ctor-1.1907313

    It's called public interest and security of tenure, hence why we are having trouble keeping doctors in this country. But I suppose we can do without them eh!

    What are IBEC BTW... employers I'll guess (ahh I can just hear the beal bocht, and the poor craaturs havn't a penny to rub together). Are these the guys that are against a living wage and keeping zero hour contracts?


  • #1234
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    So you still cannot explain why a secretary in the public service is paid more than a secretary in the private sector, why a vet in the public sector is paid more than a vet in the private sector, why an architect in the public sector is paid more than an architect in the private sector etc...and not only that, but the public sector ones have more security and pensions.


    David McWilliams made a good point recently. He said "If you link pay to levels of education or age or the number of degrees, then of course older people with more degrees will get paid most. But what if such a system of rewards sets up a bizarre incentive system?

    What if people are doing extra education courses not for the sake of education, but to “qualify” themselves for pay rises or to climb up the public sector promotion ladder which uses a “degree quota” as a measure of merit?

    If this is the case, there will always be more degrees in the public sector. This educational inflation will be particularly attractive if there is generous study leave and courses are paid for by other taxpayers. Sure who wouldn’t do an extra degree? But does having a degree in itself qualify you for higher wages? Why should a public servant who decides to do a degree that only has a tangential impact on their actual job as part of a further education programme, be entitled to more wages?

    You tell me.

    However, if this reward system becomes embedded, it is easy to justify higher wages because you have the reason and the reason is enough. It also helps that the other institutions that give out the degrees are also public sector outfits. It kind of keeps things in the family.

    When we stand back, we see that in a capitalist society the only reason anyone should get higher wages is if the service he/she provides is getting better. If yes, great, but if not, then the organisation can’t justify wage increases.
    David McWilliams said he was not aware of a massive change in the effectiveness of the Irish public sector or its provision of basic services over the last few years.


  • #1235
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    maryishere wrote: »
    So you still cannot explain why a secretary in the public service is paid more than a secretary in the private sector, why a vet in the public sector is paid more than a vet in the private sector, why an architect in the public sector is paid more than an architect in the private sector etc...and not only that, but the public sector ones have more security and pensions. .

    They applied for the better job and got it ahead of all the other applicants? Open competition, isnt that what you want? open competitions so the best person gets the job?


  • #1236
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    mulbot wrote: »
    What professions are you referring to? A lot of public sector employees don't even have third level education.
    mulbot wrote: »
    Such as?

    Gardai, nurses, doctors, solicitors, paramedics, teachers.

    and thats just the ones that I can think off, I have no doubt many people in many offices have degrees, both relevent to their current career and some not.

    and theres many many people in the private that have no third level education.

    The fact that you werent aware of these stats despite being shown multiple times, lazy.
    maryishere wrote: »
    I did not bring up the subject of football - someone else did, and I am not at all angry about it.


    No, we all know the money is good at the top of football eg the top players in Europe. But you said " even lower league / reserves are on good money"

    I could not care less anyway, its the free market, and for every Beckam or Messi earning millions there are millions of kids who will never earn anything, or very little.

    Its typical of the begrudgers in the public sector who whinge about some people in the private sector being on big wages, as if everyone in the private sector is on big wages. Quite amusing really.

    and everyone in the public is on big money? You make me laugh Mary you really do. You bull**** on about something in the public sector but then try and hide from the fact that its the same in the private sector.

    I notice you are going to ignore the fact that you have just been proven absolutey wrong about football? an issue you felt the need to go on a rant about?

    Its such hypocricay on your part. theres millionaires running around the place, all private sector but whats the reply to this?
    maryishere wrote: »
    I could not care less anyway, its the free market

    and
    maryishere wrote: »
    Its typical of the begrudgers in the public sector who whinge about some people in the private sector being on big wages, as if everyone in the private sector is on big wages.

    I mean wow, really wow! Because you havent once mentioned the top wages in the public sector to justify your attitude!

    Did you apply by the way Mary? I notice you went VERY silent for a while


  • Advertisement
  • #1237
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭mulbot


    esforum wrote: »
    Gardai, nurses, doctors, solicitors, paramedics, teachers.

    and thats just the ones that I can think off, I have no doubt many people in many offices have degrees, both relevent to their current career and some not.

    and theres many many people in the private that have no third level education.

    The fact that you werent aware of these stats despite being shown multiple times, lazy.



    and everyone in the public is on big money? You make me laugh Mary you really do. You bull**** on about something in the public sector but then try and hide from the fact that its the same in the private sector.

    I notice you are going to ignore the fact that you have just been proven absolutey wrong about football? an issue you felt the need to go on a rant about?

    Its such hypocricay on your part. theres millionaires running around the place, all private sector but whats the reply to this?



    and



    I mean wow, really wow! Because you havent once mentioned the top wages in the public sector to justify your attitude!

    Did you apply by the way Mary? I notice you went VERY silent for a while

    I'm well aware by the way,I was asking a question-I don't think Gardai or Nurses need any degrees to go down their chosen career paths,therefore it's not true to say,with these groups,that they are more highly educated(by the way,I think they deserve more pay for the jobs they do)-A solicitor isn't more qualified and more educated just because he/she works in the public sector,that's insulting to those working in the private sector


  • #1238
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    mulbot wrote: »
    I'm well aware by the way,I was asking a question-I don't think Gardai or Nurses need any degrees to go down their chosen career paths,

    The topic of education levels as a whole in the Public sector is the point, as the point being raised by mary et al is that all of the public sector get paid more 'on average'.
    mulbot wrote: »
    therefore it's not true to say,with these groups,that they are more highly educated
    If you are referring to just Gardai and Nurses then you'll have to quote percentages and state who you are comparing this group to in the private sector... Maybe there are more nurses with degrees in the public sector than there are dog groomers in the private sector!

    mulbot wrote: »
    (by the way,I think they deserve more pay for the jobs they do)-A solicitor isn't more qualified and more educated just because he/she works in the public sector,that's insulting to those working in the private sector

    No, the point was that a person (any person) is more likely to have a higher education level in the public sector than a person (any person) in the private sector.

    I don't think anyone here is saying that a solicitor working in the public system (only!) is definitely more qualified than a solicitor working in the private system (only!).


  • #1239
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    maryishere wrote: »
    So you still cannot explain why a secretary in the public service is paid more than a secretary in the private sector, why a vet in the public sector is paid more than a vet in the private sector, why an architect in the public sector is paid more than an architect in the private sector etc...and not only that, but the public sector ones have more security and pensions.

    I did, it's called security of tenure in the public interest. And I gave you the example of the problem with recruiting junior doctors. They can get better terms of employment elsewhere ...so they go elsewhere. Is that in the public interest?
    maryishere wrote: »
    David McWilliams made a good point recently. He said ...
    maryishere wrote: »
    "If you link pay to levels of education or age or the number of degrees,

    Who is doing that? The pay is linked to the TYPE of education, not the level. A PhD grad in aeronautical engineering will find it hard to get a job as a nurse with this 'level of qualification'. It still doesn't matter what this PhD person's age is... or the amount of degrees. He is unqualified for the job... if he does get the correct qualification (which you'll be disappointed to know... he does need!) then he will get paid accordingly.
    maryishere wrote: »
    then of course older people with more degrees will get paid most.
    And here's the shocking point maryishere, when you get educated you learn more, and you can bring more to the job (hence the incentive). This system works in the public sector AND.... wait for it.... in the private sector too!

    BTW the masters I did, got me an extra allowance.. I had to pay for it myself initially so the allowance will have paid it off in about 15 more years! And subsequently after the masters I took on extra duties (unpaid) which were commensurate with the masters content. This allowance has been done away with now.
    maryishere wrote: »
    But what if such a system of rewards sets up a bizarre incentive system?

    This logical falacy is a 'set-up' from the start. What other incentive system are you proposing yourself? Payment by results? REmember Irish water 'performance payments', were you in agreement with them?
    maryishere wrote: »
    What if people are doing extra education courses not for the sake of education, but to “qualify” themselves for pay rises or to climb up the public sector promotion ladder which uses a “degree quota” as a measure of merit?

    Please do keep in mind that education is worth something, and from my experiences, hard got. It's not just a matter of signing yourself into lectures and collecting a cert at the end.
    And don't forget that continuing education is expected in some private sector employments too!
    maryishere wrote: »
    If this is the case, there will always be more degrees in the public sector.
    It is not the case. The case is that more of the jobs in the public sector are at a professional level whether you like it or not (compared to the quantity of unskilled labour in the private sector). So leaving David McW and your 'case study' aside, there WILL always be more degrees in the public sector whether you like it or not... And for one I'm thankful that my Neurosurgeon in the public system has gone to college. Similarly I'm thankful that social workers working with vulnerable kids have gone to college AND I'm hoping that they have the time to upgrade their skills by further study.
    maryishere wrote: »
    This educational inflation will be particularly attractive if there is generous study leave and courses are paid for by other taxpayers. Sure who wouldn’t do an extra degree? But does having a degree in itself qualify you for higher wages?

    Who said that it did? It is thought by many that with a degree you learn a few things along the way, it's not just a case of doing word-puzzles or dot-to-dot pictures in class. These courses (at least the ones im familiar with) are accredited and have content related to your field of work.
    maryishere wrote: »
    Why should a public servant who decides to do a degree that only has a tangential impact on their actual job as part of a further education programme, be entitled to more wages?

    According to whom.. you?
    What would you suggest then, discouraging people from further education?

    You tell me.
    maryishere wrote: »
    However, if this reward system becomes embedded, it is easy to justify higher wages because you have the reason and the reason is enough. It also helps that the other institutions that give out the degrees are also public sector outfits. It kind of keeps things in the family.

    What are you on about, are you suggesting that I went around the back shed of the college and got my degree/masters etc from some shady character in the college when I slipped them a fiver (cos he was, you know, 'in the family').
    It is yourself saying that the degree parchment is the reason and the reason alone. I doubt if anyone on here would suggest that college is that easy. Have you tried it yourself?
    maryishere wrote: »
    When we stand back, we see that in a capitalist society the only reason anyone should get higher wages is if the service he/she provides is getting better. If yes, great, but if not, then the organisation can’t justify wage increases.
    David McWilliams said he was not aware of a massive change in the effectiveness of the Irish public sector or its provision of basic services over the last few years.

    And this is the dog in the manger attitude. Everyone seems to be doing better so therefore they must be made worse off to bring themselves in line with me.

    This is the general tenor of your argument (and IBEC and ISME), it's the public sector's fault that the banks over lent (banks were private sector BTW, and I'm still waiting for the thanks for helping to bail them out!!!) Therefore we can't justify any wage increases for our own employees; Hence why we shouldn't pay a living wage or give somebody an inkling of how many hours they will be working next week.

    But shur it's a capitalist society as you assert yourself. Let them pesky doctors and nurses and gardai and teachers go abroad if they don't like it.... until of course you have a child in education, sick relative or become a victim of crime.


  • #1240
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    mulbot wrote: »
    I'm well aware by the way,I was asking a question-I don't think Gardai or Nurses need any degrees to go down their chosen career paths,therefore it's not true to say,with these groups,that they are more highly educated(by the way,I think they deserve more pay for the jobs they do)-A solicitor isn't more qualified and more educated just because he/she works in the public sector,that's insulting to those working in the private sector

    you made a comment of what areas have third level qualification and I gave them.

    not a single person ever said specifically higher in each area so dont bother trying to wiggle now.

    It was incorrectly stated that public workers are not highly educated, its been pointed out that actually across the board, the level is higher. Eat your pie!


  • #1241
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭mulbot


    esforum wrote: »
    you made a comment of what areas have third level qualification and I gave them.

    not a single person ever said specifically higher in each area so dont bother trying to wiggle now.

    It was incorrectly stated that public workers are not highly educated, its been pointed out that actually across the board, the level is higher. Eat your pie!

    Chip on shoulder me thinks- It was stated about people in public sector s are more highly educated,I asked what sectors,response was among others,Nurses and Gardai,from you,. Where's the proof of these two groups(as per your example) of being more highly educated.(I'm not being negative towards nurses/gardai here either, I think they are undervalued in society)


  • Advertisement
  • #1242
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    mulbot wrote: »
    Chip on shoulder me thinks- It was stated about people in public sector s are more highly educated,I asked what sectors,response was among others,Nurses and Gardai,from you,. Where's the proof of these two groups(as per your example) of being more highly educated.(I'm not being negative towards nurses/gardai here either, I think they are undervalued in society)

    I can 100% state that public sector Gardai are more educated than private sector Gardai.

    as for chip on shoulder, how so? Because I have consistantly for 83 pages stated that all workers are free to try and better themselves and their positions regardless of industry or sector? That when you see someone doing better you should use them as an example and try to jon them? Yep, thats a serious chip on my shoulder

    as opposed to the people that want public sector workers to earn less and lose their pensions


  • #1243
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    maryishere wrote: »
    “Even when you adjust for qualifications, experience and length of service, the public sector workers still enjoy a significant pay premium over their private sector counterparts,” Ibec economist Fergal O’Brien said
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/e...ctor-1.1907313

    SO JOIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Not all jobs even if they are equal make the same money.

    Whats your education?
    Whats your occupation?
    Have you applied for the public sector?

    You have been harping on now for over 3 years FFS. How many public sector jobs have been advertised in that time?


  • #1244
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭mulbot


    esforum wrote: »
    I can 100% state that public sector Gardai are more educated than private sector Gardai.

    as for chip on shoulder, how so? Because I have consistantly for 83 pages stated that all workers are free to try and better themselves and their positions regardless of industry or sector? That when you see someone doing better you should use them as an example and try to jon them? Yep, thats a serious chip on my shoulder

    as opposed to the people that want public sector workers to earn less and lose their pensions

    You know what I'm asking in relation to the comparison of gardai/nurses level of education to professions in private sector and your attempt at being smart is pitiful- By the way, I don't think either Gardai or nurses should have pensions taken away or wages reduced, I've stated on here that they're underpaid for the work and hours they do!


  • #1245
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    mulbot wrote: »
    You know what I'm asking in relation to the comparison of gardai/nurses level of education to professions in private sector and your attempt at being smart is pitiful- By the way, I don't think either Gardai or nurses should have pensions taken away or wages reduced, I've stated on here that they're underpaid for the work and hours they do!

    Yes I know what you asked and I answered. You dont like silly answers, dont ask silly questions.

    You are the one asking for private V public comparisons when its obvious that not all jobs can be compared because they service different purposes. THere is no private police, there is no emergency nurses and doctors in the private sector, the majority of teachers are public, the majority of professors and lecturers in colleges are public, whats the private sector version of a Judge?

    Now how about that chip on the shoulder? Seems its yourself, maud and Mary that have the chip. You day you support Gardai and nurses but yet you thank an awful lot of posts aimed at them


  • #1246
    mulbot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭mulbot


    esforum wrote: »
    you asked, I answered.

    The fact that it is silly is entirely your fault. You are the one asking for private V public comparisons when its obvious that not all jobs can be compared because they service different purposes.

    Now how about that chip on the shoulder? Seems its yourself, maud and Mary that have the chip

    I still don't see how you can state two of the groups you mentioned are better educated than private sector educated workers...


  • #1247
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    mulbot wrote: »
    I still don't see how you can state two of the groups you mentioned are better educated than private sector educated workers...

    Well said. Many of the gardai I know just scraped through school, were far from being the kids on the block. A lot of the public sector are not that well qualified e.g. a lot of the army etc.

    Esforum or others here still cannot explain why a secretary in the public service is paid more than a secretary in the private sector, why a vet in the public sector is paid more than a vet in the private sector, why an architect in the public sector is paid more than an architect in the private sector etc...and not only that, but the public sector ones have more security and pensions. In other countries the public service premium does not exist. Its a two tier society in Ireland, with the vast bulk of the private sector without a pension, and paying their taxes to the government, to support their employees with higher pay and pensions.

    As as said before, which you have not grasped yet:
    what the experts did was compare a secretary in the public service with one in private sector, a vet in the public service with one in the private sector, an architectural technician in the public sector with one in the private sector etc..and they found that overall " Even adjusted for education, skills and experience, we have a significant pay premium in the public sector, and that’s an issue that has to be part of the post-crisis discussion."
    http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sect...37290-Aug2014/


    Even when you adjust for qualifications, experience and length of service, the public sector workers still enjoy a significant pay premium over their private sector counterparts,” Ibec economist Fergal O’Brien said
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/e...ctor-1.1907313


  • #1248
    Paulzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    maryishere wrote: »
    Well said. Many of the gardai I know just scraped through school, were far from being the kids on the block. A lot of the public sector are not that well qualified e.g. a lot of the army etc.


    Well you've convinced me with that stunning, incisive piece of intellectual logic.


  • #1249
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Thats good, because some posters would try to have you believe most people in the public sector are better qualified than those in the private sector.


  • #1250
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    maryishere wrote: »
    Well said. Many of the gardai I know just scraped through school, were far from being the kids on the block. A lot of the public sector are not that well qualified e.g. a lot of the army etc.

    all 8000 soldiers arent educated? Really? Make blind accusations much do we?

    Scraping through school is still a leaving cert m'dear. Scraping through college of still a degree.

    A lot of the private sector wont be that well educated, ya know theres still people leaving school after their junior cert? Not to join the civil service they aint!
    maryishere wrote: »
    Esforum or others here still cannot explain why a secretary in the public service is paid more than a secretary in the private sector, why a vet in the public sector is paid more than a vet in the private sector, why an architect in the public sector is paid more than an architect in the private sector etc...and not only that, but the public sector ones have more security and pensions. In other countries the public service premium does not exist. Its a two tier society in Ireland, with the vast bulk of the private sector without a pension, and paying their taxes to the government, to support their employees with higher pay and pensions.

    Ya know its funny but if anyone is bothered going through your post history, it shows a complet and utter lack of understanding. Time and time again you make claims about other nations and then are shot down completely. You didnt even know that the UK subsidised their precription drugs!

    In other nations the public sector is considered even better and harder to get into it. They are prized jobs. Of course you will never prove your theory, just vanish for a day then come back and say it again.
    maryishere wrote: »
    As as said before, which you have not grasped yet:
    what the experts did was compare a secretary in the public service with one in private sector, a vet in the public service with one in the private sector, an architectural technician in the public sector with one in the private sector etc..and they found that overall " Even adjusted for education, skills and experience, we have a significant pay premium in the public sector, and that’s an issue that has to be part of the post-crisis discussion."
    http://www.thejournal.ie/public-sect...37290-Aug2014/

    I explained it well already, its called freedom of market. Different agencies pay different amounts for the same job. Why are they paid more? because thats the package on offer and in return they get thousands of applications and get in theory, the best candidate.

    I will let you in on a secret, now dont tell anyone but McDonalds and BUrgerking and Supermacs dont jointly set their wage packages. even Lid and Aldi have different pay and perks packages for staff.
    maryishere wrote: »
    Even when you adjust for qualifications, experience and length of service, the public sector workers still enjoy a significant pay premium over their private sector counterparts,” Ibec economist Fergal O’Brien said
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/e...ctor-1.1907313

    Its easier at this stage to quote myself than type it again:
    esforum wrote: »
    SO JOIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Not all jobs even if they are equal make the same money.

    Whats your education?
    Whats your occupation?
    Have you applied for the public sector?

    You have been harping on now for over 3 years FFS. How many public sector jobs have been advertised in that time?
    mulbot wrote: »
    I still don't see how you can state two of the groups you mentioned are better educated than private sector educated workers...

    show me where I said they were? Who would you like to compare Gardai to? Ok, lets do Mary's trick.

    Gardai are required, just to get in, a leaving cert. They will qualify with a degree.

    Bigmac maker in McDonalds do not require any level of education. They will have 1 star


  • #1251
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    maryishere wrote: »
    A lot of the public sector are not that well qualified e.g. a lot of the army etc.

    esforum wrote: »
    all 8000 soldiers arent educated? Really? Make blind accusations much do we?

    I said A LOT of the army are not that well educated....certainly not compared to private sector workers in most of the wealth creating sector of the economy, for example the tech and pharmceutical industries, offices , exporters, engineering industries etc.

    Now you lie (again) and after I said a lot of the army, you accuse me of saying
    "all 8000 soldiers arent educated?" and you add " Really? Make blind accusations much do we?"

    You are nothing but a liar as evidenced above and the rest of your post contains more lies so is not worth replying to.


  • Advertisement
  • #1252
    StringerBell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,638 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Tzardine wrote: »
    As somebody that supervises them I can assure you its true. (they make more than me). . I will find something and edit this post later with it. On phone now.

    Still no sign of these 800 a week jobs you spoke of I take it, being a full month since you made the claim with no post edit.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • #1253
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    maryishere wrote: »
    I said A LOT of the army are not that well educated....certainly not compared to private sector workers in most of the wealth creating sector of the economy, for example the tech and pharmceutical industries, offices , exporters, engineering industries etc.

    Now you lie (again) and after I said a lot of the army, you accuse me of saying
    "all 8000 soldiers arent educated?" and you add " Really? Make blind accusations much do we?"

    You are nothing but a liar as evidenced above and the rest of your post contains more lies so is not worth replying to.

    Ah this is just funny,

    what does 'offices' mean? That can be anything!

    Pharmaceutical? well does that include factory and warehouse workers? many of whom will have only a leaving witgh some not even that.

    exporters? Like farmers export products? Exporters covers a huge range. even limiting it too the shipping and freight industry, thats an area that until about 15 years ago didnt even have a relevant degree course.

    But we know you really want to compare the lab workers and engineers to soldiers dont you? So yes, engineers and lab techs would be higher edicated as a sector

    they would also be on a much much larger salary!!!!!!!!!!!!

    oh and yes they make money, so much money they pay their lab and engineering staff way about the averages along with their CEO's. Why not include banks, they are private sector arent they? Wasnt Drumm a provate sector employee? Didnt I take awage reduction so that the bank staff kept their jobs?

    (oh and despite being a millionaire, he only had a leaving cert so pay way way more than ANYONE in public employment including the US president but also had the MINIMUM education standard to even apply for a public sector job)


    Way to prove the point Mary :D:D:D:D:D


  • #1254
    222233
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The Luas driver's debate seems to bring up comparisons between the training involved and job difficulty and pay in the jobs in my title and the pay of Luas drivers.

    I'm just wondering is there any job type that you think is overpaid or underpaid? I think the jobs in my title should be paid well as long as they're good at their job. I think carers and nurses should be paid more and I think hospital biochemists (the ones who test blood) should be paid a hell of a lot more (you can guarantee a strike will be in the works). Anyone else deserving of a pay rise?

    The Luas pay is already at a good rate in my opinion.

    I definitely agree with nurses being paid more, I also think consultants and GP's could be paid better for the sacrifices they make - Running a private clinic costs a huge amount of money hence why consultation fees are so high, give them a higher salary bring down consult costs.


  • #1255
    Barry Badrinath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    maryishere wrote: »
    I said A LOT of the army are not that well educated....

    Can you just elaborate on that point please.


  • #1256
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    esforum wrote: »
    Why not include banks, they are private sector arent they?

    No, their jobs are guaranteed by the government, and answer to the government, you can say they are as good as public service jobs.
    esforum wrote: »
    Didnt I take awage reduction so that the bank staff kept their jobs?
    You took a wage cut because everyone including your own unions realised your wages increased too much during the boom, and was not sustainable, and because your buddies in the Central bank and Dept of Finance and Regulators office (all public servants like you) did not do their job in running the economy / regulating the banks. But yes, your buddies the bank staff kept their jobs, which I believe they should not automatically have...I believe if some knew (during the tiger) that they could lose their jobs, they would not lent recklessly or excessively as much during the boom.


  • #1257
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    Wolf Hanssen wrote: »
    Can you just elaborate on that point please.

    no, of course she cant, she has just ben spitting venim for a fair few pages now as her absolute ignorance and hypocrisy has been exposed time and time again


  • #1258
    222233
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    esforum wrote: »
    GP's arent paid a salary, they are private practice.



    no, of course she cant, she has just ben spitting venim for a fair few pages now as her absolute ignorance and hypocrisy has been exposed time and time again

    I'm assuming they are paid for south doc services and medical card holders, same thing really ?


  • #1259
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    222233 wrote: »
    The Luas pay is already at a good rate in my opinion.

    I definitely agree with nurses being paid more, I also think consultants and GP's could be paid better for the sacrifices they make - Running a private clinic costs a huge amount of money hence why consultation fees are so high, give them a higher salary bring down consult costs.

    GP's are self employed


  • #1260
    KatW4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭KatW4


    maryishere wrote:
    Esforum or others here still cannot explain why a secretary in the public service is paid more than a secretary in the private sector, why a vet in the public sector is paid more than a vet in the private sector, why an architect in the public sector is paid more than an architect in the private sector etc...and not only that, but the public sector ones have more security and pensions. In other countries the public service premium does not exist. Its a two tier society in Ireland, with the vast bulk of the private sector without a pension, and paying their taxes to the government, to support their employees with higher pay and pensions.


    Good God will you ever give it a rest with the public V private vet/architect etc... surely the public sector chooses what to pay their employees so take it up with them!


  • Advertisement
  • #1261
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    maryishere wrote: »
    No, their jobs are guaranteed by the government, and answer to the government, you can say they are as good as public service jobs.


    You took a wage cut because everyone including your own unions realised your wages increased too much during the boom, and was not sustainable, and because your buddies in the Central bank and Dept of Finance and Regulators office (all public servants like you) did not do their job in running the economy / regulating the banks. But yes, your buddies the bank staff kept their jobs, which I believe they should not automatically have...I believe if some knew (during the tiger) that they could lose their jobs, they would not lent recklessly or excessively as much during the boom.

    wow. Keep em coming Mary, keep em coming. You are a peach:D:D:D


Advertisement
Advertisement