Three mobile broadband speeds

mcquaim · 14-04-2016 07:29AM

robbiep958 wrote: »

Thats intresting . May i know what part of the country your from ? Same has happened to me lost it yesterday around 1 and i still have no 4g

Hi Robbie,

This is in North Monaghan near Emyvale. Where are you?

Cheers,
mcquaim

mcquaim · 14-04-2016 09:44PM

I tried the brothers PAYG sim in the router this evening and it's not working either..

It does connect briefly but very soon afterwards it disconnects!

The one difference is that when this sim does connect it can connect to the 4G network where as the other sim never seems to connect to it, only the 3G network.

I am going to take the router to my brothers house on Saturday and check that the fault is not the actual router.

If it works there then I need to try and find out which mast it is connecting to so I can report a fault to 3. Any idea how to find this out?

Happy_Harry · 14-04-2016 10:46PM

mcquaim wrote: »

The one difference is that when this sim does connect it can connect to the 4G network where as the other sim never seems to connect to it, only the 3G network.

I am going to take the router to my brothers house on Saturday and check that the fault is not the actual router.

If it works there then I need to try and find out which mast it is connecting to so I can report a fault to 3. Any idea how to find this out?

I downloaded an app Network Cell Info lite that seems to be able to tell which mast you are connecting to. Obviously it will only have the information about the signal your phone is using, but let's make an assumption that it is the same mast that your modem connects to..

Maybe ask the three crowd here on boards to check your account and see if anything is wrong - just to be sure ?
Reading your post again- could it perhaps be, that Three started to block tethering on the PAYG sim cards ? I believe you are using a phone sim as opposed to a MBB SIM ?
Did you change APNs and see if that made any change ?

editorsean · 14-04-2016 10:59PM

I had a quick check from my end and it's still the reverse here, i.e. 4G connects, but if I force my router into 3G-only mode, it endlessly says 'No Signal' and will not register with a manual network search.

I'm not sure if this is related, but there's a sharp drop in the 4G speed compared to when I tested my Three prepay SIM last Friday.

Three SIM with 3broadband.ie APN on left, re-test with iD Mobile SIM put back in:

So while the Three SIM still worked on my end, it would have been no better than my existing DSL connection at least at the moment.

What's also interesting is that I have noticed that when I put the iD Mobile broadband SIM in my phone, it will not go into 4G mode once I leave my area. For example, if I head to Ballybofey, it will stay in 3G mode at the office. However, when I brought the router with and put the iD SIM into the router, it would work fine in 4G and the same when I put the SIM back into my phone. However, once I headed back home, it would not work in the phone in 4G until I used it in the router.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take the router to work just to see whether it will connect in 3G or 4G mode there. I'm mainly curious to check what I get on the Meteor 4G network such as to compare its speed against having the SIM in my phone on TestMy.

mcquaim · 15-04-2016 12:43AM

Happy_Harry wrote: »

I downloaded an app Network Cell Info lite that seems to be able to tell which mast you are connecting to. Obviously it will only have the information about the signal your phone is using, but let's make an assumption that it is the same mast that your modem connects to..

Maybe ask the three crowd here on boards to check your account and see if anything is wrong - just to be sure ?
Reading your post again- could it perhaps be, that Three started to block tethering on the PAYG sim cards ? I believe you are using a phone sim as opposed to a MBB SIM ?
Did you change APNs and see if that made any change ?

Thanks for the reply! I will try that app and see if it helps. My problem is that I'm in a poor coverage area and need an antenna to pick up mobile broadband although the B315 can pick it up without an antenna. I can't even get 3G on my phone usually unless I'm upstairs out a window..

It is a 3 PAYG sim so perhaps you are rite. The brothers sim I tried this evening came out of his phone so it shouldn't had suffered the same issues.

I tried all the known APN 's but none made any difference I'm afraid.

I'm still hoping it is a local mast issue.

## Edit ##

I downloaded that app but I'm not understanding what the detail mean.

Is LAC & CID what I'm after?

In Monaghan town here I'm picking up LAC: 20009 CID: 27011.

How do I know where this is? Siteviewer doesn't seem to have the same info.

Any ideas?

## Edit 2 ##

I found this site, very handy!

http://cellphonetrackers.org/gsm/gsm-tracker.php

That being said I also discovered that the app has a map tab too, should have checked that out first..

Happy_Harry · 15-04-2016 10:10AM

mcquaim wrote: »

It is a 3 PAYG sim so perhaps you are rite. The brothers sim I tried this evening came out of his phone so it shouldn't had suffered the same issues.

If it came out of his phone , then it would suffer the same issue if they are clamping down on tethering, not good news and I doubt they are , but still..

That being said I also discovered that the app has a map tab too, should have checked that out first..

I remembered the map and also had no further idea what most of the techie stuff mean

mcquaim · 15-04-2016 10:24AM

Happy_Harry wrote: »

If it came out of his phone , then it would suffer the same issue if they are clamping down on tethering, not good news and I doubt they are , but still..

I remembered the map and also had no further idea what most of the techie stuff mean

I think more people would be reporting it if tethering was being blocked and Sean was able to use his yesterday evening!

I think/hope it is just a local mast issue..

I was checking the map on that app and the location from that link I posted above and both specify a mast location that doesn't exist on Siteviewer.

Perhaps Siteviewer isn't up to date or the details aren't accurate from the CID and LAC?

editorsean · 15-04-2016 11:32AM

I took my router to work and my Three SIM connects in both 3G and 4G modes. In 3G mode, it shows up as roaming as the network code of the 3G mast here was changed to 272 02 which shows as O2 Ireland.

As surprising as it sounds, the speed on 3G is faster (left) than 4G here (right), at least at this time of checking. I reran the tests back and forward and the results were similar.

I left the SIM in for about 20 minutes and it was still connected in 4G mode.

As for Meteor testing, the maximum speed I got on Meteor in the router was no different to my phone, peaking at 46Mbps after a handful of tests. Most tests were around the 40Mbps mark.

0Xypijl74.9Ejgbk7eQ.png

As for APNs, Meteor would only let me connect using the 'data.mymeteor.ie' APN with the SIM in the router. With any other APN including the 'broadband.mymeteor.ie' APN that worked with my previous dongle, it would give an error connecting, i.e. it would shows a strong 4G signal, 'Disconnected' and some error code as the connection status.

Edit: Tried one of the Leaseweb test files - This is the fastest I've seen on a 4G connection with an actual download:

mcquaim · 15-04-2016 12:16PM

Thanks Sean! I think then we can rule out any block on tethering from 3 as yours is still working fine?

I will be able to get more definitive results tomorrow when I test the router in a completely different area and see what happens then!

Thanks again for all the details!

editorsean · 15-04-2016 12:51PM

As it's my main phone SIM, I didn't want to leave it in much longer in case a call came in.

Once my credit runs out on the phone SIM, my plan is to move my number to Meteor and buy another Three SIM. This way I can do further testing without risking my mobile # also.

If Three decides to tackle tethering or SIM in router/table usage, I'm fairly sure they will go the approach Three UK does where it displays a place-holder web page saying that this usage is not permitted and all is fine once the SIM is put back in the phone and switched off for a few minutes.

Another possibility is they could go the Austria approach where they offer unlimited mobile broadband plans, which are €18/month for 3G, €25/month for 4G and higher plans for higher 'up to' speeds, e.g. 50Mbps and 150Mbps. Interestingly, they don't seem to have any unlimited bill or prepay phone plan like here.

Happy_Harry · 15-04-2016 04:56PM

mcquaim wrote: »

Perhaps Siteviewer isn't up to date or the details aren't accurate from the CID and LAC?

That is exactly what I experienced. I was connected to masts siteviewer doesn't list.. I will actually go and have a look this weekend and see if there are actually masts where the app says they are

editorsean · 16-04-2016 12:10AM

As I had my iD broadband SIM with earlier, I tried the reverse approach by putting it in my phone to see how long it would remain connected in 4G mode after using it in the router. The phone is dual SIM, so I could still use my main number on Three in the other slot. I think within an hour it fell back to 3G mode and indeed putting it in and out of aeroplane mode would not put it back on 4G. So it looks like I really need to have the Three SIM in the router for several hours to see whether it maintains a 4G connection.

I'm not quite sure why iD (or more likely Three) would prevent a broadband SIM working on 4G in a phone, but that's been the case since I got my iD SIM two months ago. This did kill one plan I considered where I thought about using two iD SIMs in rotation (e.g. 25GB and 45GB bundles) with my router. If this worked, it would have given considerably faster data on my phone than my normal Three phone SIM and let me use the most of my data of both bundles as my normal phone usage is around 2GB per month, apart from running speed tests.

Basically the following shows what happens when 4G is not allowed:

With my iD broadband SIM in the phone, I put it into and out of aeroplane mode, which normally puts my Three SIM straight into 4G. Like with my Three SIM, it initially gives the impression that it's on LTE, but the exclamation mark does not clear:

After a few seconds, the icon changes to 'Emergency calls only':

After about 10 seconds, it finally connects in 3G mode:

If I toggle aeroplane mode again, the above process repeats.

mcquaim · 16-04-2016 11:56AM

Hi folks,

I borrowed a bill pay data sim and my brothers pre pay phone sim and tried both in the router and neither would work!

I disconnected the antenna cables and power cord to take the whole lot to my brothers house to check there!

I just decided to try it again in one of the upstairs bedrooms where I get the best reception and what do you know, it's working fine again...

I then tried the original PAYG sim back in the router and it's working fine too, WTF..

So, the antenna is making things worse than without! I must have it pointed ares-ways!!

When I initially installed it I struggled to get 4G so I spent a good while on the roof finely moving it until it settled with the best signal I could get..

I guess I'm back to the roof again

I guess it's good news that the tethering isn't being blocked but I'm concerned with the antenna now and how good it actually is.. Perhaps it moved..

That app to find the mast where the signal is coming from just says location not found for here.

The details on LTE are different though, much more variables listed.

Would any of you know if I posted a screenshot?

### Edit ###

After a very long day up and down ladders I'm no further on really.. What I do know is that no matter what if I've the antenna connected to the router it will simply not pick up 4G.

I thought that perhaps it might be the router so I borrowed my brothers B593 router. It was the same however, it just won't take to 4G.

The strange thing is that it was working so I can't figure out what has changed. I contacted the seller on eBay and he said it sounds like interference of some sort..

To me it sounds like a hardware failure as it had been working and then suddenly just stopped.. So, what to try next.. I'm kind of stumped with this now!

Anyone with suggestions would be greatly appreciated here.,

Thanks,
Mac

editorsean · 16-04-2016 09:33PM

If the 4G mast you're picking up is quite far away, one possibility is that another 4G mast went into operation on the same frequency in another direction, assuming your roof antenna is an omni-directional atenna. In this instance, the antenna would have problems trying to lock on to one without picking put interference from the other.

If this is what's happening, this would explain why the indoor router has a better chance of picking up the wanted signal when placed towards the side of the house facing the wanted mast. The unwanted signal would then be attenuated as it tries passing through walls and objects in the other direction.

One thing you could try is take down the external antenna and try holding it up against a wall that faces the general direction of the wanted mast such as against the gable to see if the router will connect to 4G. If this works, then you will either need to move the antenna to this location or replace it with a directional antenna. Unfortunately this means bringing out the ladders again to try out.

That's a real bummer to hear, especially with it working fine until recently.

mcquaim · 16-04-2016 10:14PM

Hi Sean,

That's an interesting theory and could explain it alright.

I might be able to mount the antenna at this side of the house alright and see if it helps but it will involve quite a bit of messing.

I have the B315 connected into a Draytek 2850Vn which shares out the 4G and a crappy ADSL connection! To move the antenna would mean a completely different run of cables.

It might be easier to get a replacement antenna that is directional. I might ask the eBay seller and see if he will do anything for me!

Thanks for the help again Sean, appreciated.

mcquaim · 17-04-2016 03:42PM

mcquaim wrote: »

Hi Sean,

That's an interesting theory and could explain it alright.

I might be able to mount the antenna at this side of the house alright and see if it helps but it will involve quite a bit of messing.

I have the B315 connected into a Draytek 2850Vn which shares out the 4G and a crappy ADSL connection! To move the antenna would mean a completely different run of cables.

It might be easier to get a replacement antenna that is directional. I might ask the eBay seller and see if he will do anything for me!

Thanks for the help again Sean, appreciated.

Hi Sean,

I think you were bang on the money with this.

I took down the antenna and monuted it at the back of the house with the wall behind it and it pointing towards the nearest mast from Siteviewer!

Bingo, getting 3 bars 4G signal and a consistent 18-20Mbps download speed.

Thanks again as I never would have thought of moving the antenna, I thought it was faulty..

Cheers,
Mac

editorsean · 08-05-2016 02:06PM

As I could not improve my signal strength / quality figures, I tried a different method of adjusting my antenna - Measuring the actual throughout as I move an individual antenna.

Based on connecting the leads from the outdoor MIMO panel antenna one at a time, the vertical polarity gave the strongest signal of 100dBm RSRP. So I left that one put as it's quite high up on the gable, not to mention raining at the time.

I have a spare wideband LOG antenna from earlier testing, so I connected it to the second antenna input on the router and started walking about the room in the loft where I have the router. As I suspected, I could not improve upon the signal strength I was getting on the outdoor antenna.

At it was Saturday afternoon, my throughput was jumping about the place with even the Leaseweb test downloads. As I know Three delivers more throughput with multi-threaded connections (as how Speedtest tests) especially at peak time, I ran TestMy's largest 200MB block multi-threaded with a Three SIM in the router and opened the Windows task manager on the Performance tab with the network traffic graph (WiFi in this case). This gave me about a minute to position the antenna before the test would complete.

As the test ran, I walked about again with the antenna and sure enough there was a clear fluctuation in the Task Manager's throughput graph depending on how I aimed the antenna. After finding the sweet spot, I stacked a bunch of empty boxes and laid the antenna on top.

The signal figures appear unchanged in the router's status - RSSI (-77dBm), RSRP (-100dBm) and RSRQ (-7dB). Only 3 of 5 bars are lit on the router also.

The maximum speed I could get before was about 32Mbps (multi-threaded) and now I'm getting just over 40Mbps even on a linear early in the day. As usual the speed drops well down in the evening after around 5pm with YouTube struggling to play in 720p at times.

Left - Outdoor antenna only (multi-threaded), right - Outdoor on vertical polarity, loft antenna on horizontal polarity and Speedtest.net for the burst multi-threaded throughput:

j7g_~9-3q.png

Test transfer using Leaseweb's test files, 11:50am:

It's also surprising just how much the speed varies between whether Three's SIM is in a router or in my phone. I moved my main number to Meteor as web browsing on my phone was feeling more like an Edge connection with some websites taking 10 seconds for the first content to start appearing, even with a full LTE signal. For comparison, Meteor gives roughly the same speed whether the SIM is in my phone or router as long as the signal strength is good on each. The Three SIM I'm using here is another I picked up to let me continue testing as the original obviously got deactivated once I moved my number.

editorsean · 09-05-2016 08:51PM

As usual for this time of evening, YouTube is practically unplayable here in 720p on Three, yet the Speedtests show adequate bandwidth and my 5Mb DSL connection rarely gives an issue streaming in 720p.

So I played a bunch of random videos forced in 720p mode and took sccreenshots of the "Stats for nerds" screen along with the URLs. I then switched back to DSL and checked the same videos. Every one played fine in 720p and coincidentally one played from the same server ID, which rules out it playing from congested YouTube servers.

So I repeated the tests once again this time using HMA to connect to an Irish VPN server. Sure enough, every single video played fine over the VPN and the 1080p videos had no problem playing in 1080p mode also without a glitch. Just like the DSL connection, one of the videos played from the same server ID, so I grabbed another screenshot.

Direct connection on the left and over HMA VPN connection on the right:

Either Three is throttling YouTube or it has severe congestion along whatever route it goes over to the YouTube servers. When I took the right screenshot, it had the full video buffered at that point.

Going by TestMy and a Leasweb test file download, I had roughly 7Mbps of bandwidth at the time:

... or 43Mbps according to Speedtest:

ED E · 09-05-2016 11:16PM

Do you see similar to the HEANET mirrors(7 vs 40)?

There should be zero peering issues there as they all co-lo at Citywest. If the same speeds apply you can be pretty sure there's severe shaping rules in place. o2 used Sandvine, three UK have something under their own branding but it may be bought in.

About TrafficSense™.
TrafficSense™ is a term we use to describe how we manage traffic on our network. It’s designed to give you the best possible mobile internet experience by:

improving the consistency and quality of your experience in parts of our network where a lot of people are already using it at once
preventing our network from slowing down as more people join us.
We don’t constrain the amount of data you can use (subject to your data allowances, of course). But, for example, between 3pm and 12 midnight, we dedicate a certain amount of bandwidth to file sharing and to tethering, so that all other types of traffic can make the most of the rest of it. We don’t block file sharing. We just manage it at times when it affects other people trying to use our network.

We also optimise video streaming, so that you get a smoother streaming experience, and use less of any data allowances you might have. You shouldn’t notice any difference in video quality.

Without TrafficSense™, a small minority of users could take up a large proportion of our network capacity throughout the day. This would inevitably affect a large majority of people trying to do simple things like browsing the web.

Our approaches may vary over time in order to meet network demand. The latest information on TrafficSense™ and how it may affect you is available on this page and there's more detailed information in our TrafficSense™ facts document, or you can see what we say about traffic management in our terms and conditions.

Obviously you still have the ADSL option but if Three interests you I'd rent a Linode/similar VPS, run OpenVPN and push everything that way from a DDWRT box.

editorsean · 09-05-2016 11:30PM

I just checked now and indeed so. After about 20MB downloaded from a random ISO on Heanet, it settled about 930KB/s (~7.2Mbps). I stopped and immediately ran Speedtest.net:

editorsean · 10-05-2016 12:35AM

It's indeed looking like TrafficSense may be the culprit.

I checked again after midnight and there's a vast difference in the throughput.

Re-test of same ISO file on Heanet. It settled about 5.4MB/s and just hit 5.5MB/s as I took the screenshot:

That's also the fastest Internet transfer rate I've had in my home to date.

TestMy (UK server), Leaseweb test file (Dutch server):

Speedtest.net:

YouTube still seemed severely throttled, especially with the very flat speed graph on the left. The right image is after I connected the VPN and restarted the video.

One thing I'm curious to try tomorrow is start the playback of a few random videos and check them 5 to 10 minutes later. I noticed that any video I watched ended up on Three's YouTube cache server (stream host ends in 'q0ce'). For example, when I retested this same video a few minutes later, it played from the 'q0ce' ending host with a much higher throughput:

editorsean · 10-05-2016 06:38PM

From further testing, I found out that Three's YouTube cache server gets the video pretty quick, even for long 1080p videos.

The following is an example where I played a video that buffered very few seconds in 720p. The right is right after closing the tab and re-opening the video. It went straight to 1080p and played without a glitch:

r16---sn-5hnednek (173.194.158.21) = Google (CA, USA) server
r1.sn-uigxxpx-q0ce (83.136.46.44) = Three Ireland server

So for anyone with YouTube buffering issues on Three:

Play the video for 15 seconds, doesn't matter what resolution.
Close that browser tab, then wait 30 seconds.
Go back to that video and play it.

I tried this on a handful of videos and everything ended up playing from the 'q0ce' ending host.

I'm fairly sure this trick will not work if the mast itself is congested. I.e. if Ookla's Speedtest is giving poor results, then I doubt YouTube will stream any quicker as Speedtest appears to get priority over everything else.

editorsean · 14-05-2016 01:07AM

Just to finally update - It looks like Three fixed the throttling issue with YouTube.

Over the past few evenings (this one especially), I haven't had any issue with YouTube buffering and the videos in 1080p went straight to that mode, each on the first play attempt. The bandwidth for most videos was similar to playing directly from Three's YouTube cache server.

After midnight, it was peaking around 30Mbps compared to 2.5Mbps about a week ago. The following was from the Google server in California, whereas the last day I posted above it was struggling to play from nearby servers.

In case this issue crops up again, a quicker workaround is to just press F5 (or the browser 'Refresh' button) 15 to 30 seconds into the video instead of the steps I suggested earlier.

mcquaim · 06-10-2016 09:59PM

I was setting up a Huawei B315 router for my brother tonight as a replacement for an older TP Link TL-MR3420 router (think that is the model number) with a dongle stuck in the back..

The funny thing is the speeds in the TP Link router are actually faster than the new B315 router.

I am using the same APN's in both so it just doesn't make sense. I've set a few of these up recently and they've always proved to be quicker than older 3G dongles..

So, why can this be the case now? Could I have a faulty router perhaps?

old boy · 06-10-2016 10:35PM

i went to three a few months ago to get a replacement sim, i wqas asked did i require a 3g or 4g sim, as the 3g was kind slow i chanced the 4g one, a definate inprovement in speeds, ie from 1.0 -1.9 to 2.9-3.0, my fone is not as powerfull as the old one put still a great improvement, i have got a little box in the post and i will be purchasing an external ariel as the site says i can get up to 18% gain, plus a bit of extra power from the box, it will take a month or so and i will report back

editorsean · 06-10-2016 10:48PM

mcquaim wrote: »

I am using the same APN's in both so it just doesn't make sense. I've set a few of these up recently and they've always proved to be quicker than older 3G dongles..

So, why can this be the case now? Could I have a faulty router perhaps?

One possibility is that the B315 is connecting to a different mast, such as a former O2 3G mast instead of a Three 3G mast.

If the B315 is connecting in 4G mode, try running a speed test, then force the B315 in 3G only mode and rerun the speed test. As most 4G capable devices automatically go into 4G mode, it can be surprising just how much quicker 3G is during peak time with fewer devices using 3G.

mcquaim · 06-10-2016 10:53PM

editorsean wrote: »

One possibility is that the B315 is connecting to a different mast, such as a former O2 3G mast instead of a Three 3G mast.

If the B315 is connecting in 4G mode, try running a speed test, then force the B315 in 3G only mode and rerun the speed test. As most 4G capable devices automatically go into 4G mode, it can be surprising just how much quicker 3G is during peak time with fewer devices using 3G.

Good idea, never thought of that.. The dongle is only a 3G one so it would deffo only be picking up 3G anyway!

I am heading back over tomorrow so I'll give that a whirl..

Cheers

mcquaim · 07-10-2016 01:25PM

mcquaim wrote: »

Good idea, never thought of that.. The dongle is only a 3G one so it would deffo only be picking up 3G anyway!

I am heading back over tomorrow so I'll give that a whirl..

Cheers

I tried all kinds of combinations today but the TP-Link router/3G dongle combination always worked faster.

I even tried searching manually for available networks and then selected the various available ones but none of them still matched the TP-Link speeds.

The strange thing is when using a Meteor sim it's the other way around, much quicker in the B315 than the TP-Link combination..

The brother had decided to ditch the Three PAYG sim and stick with the Meteor, the speeds are more consistent especially with Three grounding to a halt in the evenings...

The 25GB data limit might be an issue but hopefully it will last until FTTH is due here the 2nd half of next year..

Three mobile broadband speeds

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