Three mobile broadband speeds

mcquaim

Hi there,

My brother lives in an area with no other options for broadband other than mobile broadband.

He has been using various companies and is currently with Meteor and is happy enough with speeds but allowance isn't great.

His kids are now getting into gaming and they are constantly going over their allowance and getting screwed in their bills!

I suggested getting a 3 PrePay sim and using it. I'm with 3 and on my iPhone I'm getting approx. 18Mbps down and 2-3Mbps up.

He got a sim and stuck it in a dongle connected to his TP-Link TL-MR3220 router but the speeds are way down on what my phone is getting and they are very inconsistent.

The best he can get is 4-5Mbps down but more often it's approx 1-2Mbps.

I'm curious how all this is working. Should the PrePay sim achieve the same speeds I get on my phone?

I'm a bill pay ex O2 customer so do bill pay get a separate superior connection to the mast or is the difference down to the fact I used be O2?

I have borrowed my girlfriends Huawei B593 router to see if this improves anything. One of the dongles I tested the PrePay sim on was a 4G Huawei one so its speeds should have been good while connected directly to the laptop.

I put my iPhone sim directly in this 4G dongle and it was getting 18-19Mbps so not sure if the B593 will help anything.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
mcquaim

Ten Pin

AFAIK the APNs are different for phones and broadband. And Iphones use a different APN for tethering which is what you do when you share data connection with any other device. Any router speed testing you do should be done with the PAYG sim otherwise you may be charged.

Be very careful with your phone SIM, three are fleecing ex O2 bill pay users for tethering, see Three forum for more on this.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletinforumdisplay.php?f=1367

mcquaim

Ten Pin wrote: »

AFAIK the APNs are different for phones and broadband. And Iphones use a different APN for tethering which is what you do when you share data connection with any other device. Any router speed testing you do should be done with the PAYG sim otherwise you may be charged.

Be very careful with your phone SIM, three are fleecing ex O2 bill pay users for tethering, see Three forum for more on this.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletinforumdisplay.php?f=1367

Cheers!

The use of my SIM was just to test that the sim in the dongle would give the same results, it isn't going to be used.

The PAYG sim is the only one being used.

What APN should be used for the PAYG sim?

I've used these but nothing really helps:

3ireland.ie
3broadband.ie
3internet

ED E

Your sim is on the old o2 3G network which is mostly empty at this point and pretty fast (you're seeing 18Mb on a 21Mb system) but the PAYG sim is on the new three network which is overloaded due to the lack of data limits. Until three start enforcing 15GB FUPs for all users it'll be slow.

Your brother can have:
Fast and Capped
or
Slow and Uncapped

Fast and uncapped is having your cake and eating it.

mcquaim

ED E wrote: »

Your sim is on the old o2 3G network which is mostly empty at this point and pretty fast (you're seeing 18Mb on a 21Mb system) but the PAYG sim is on the new three network which is overloaded due to the lack of data limits. Until three start enforcing 15GB FUPs for all users it'll be slow.

Your brother can have:
Fast and Capped
or
Slow and Uncapped

Fast and uncapped is having your cake and eating it.

Cheers Ed.

So, what he has is going to be as good as it gets?

Which APN to use for the PAYG sim?

If the 3 PAYG isn't going to be any good then would a bill pay from 3 work better in his location, and given a priority connection?

ED E

I think "editorsean" has done some comparison of APNs, you can check his posts for some nice detail there.

Billpay on Three is the worst option of all, caps AND slow!

If I were him I'd consider:

A. Three PAYG, live with horrendous speeds, kids can run unchecked
B. Keep current Meteor, ban the consoles
C. Go dual setup, use the Meteor for low use devices and Three for hogs (Streaming, games, any devices kids may accidentally hammer with usage), probably talking €20+€30 or so per month with then no overusage charges.

Scruff

If you are tech savvy you could look into setting up a compatible router and pair of dongles with routing rules for option C above with this guide:
http://ofmodemsandmen.com/multiweb.html

Its on my todo list so can only point you in its direction

Scruff

ED E wrote: »

Until three start enforcing 15GB FUPs for all users.

Looks like they have increased the unenforced 15GB FUP to 60GB
http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057576881/1#post99172692
http://www.three.ie/terms-conditions/services/prepay-price-plan-terms-conditions/#20topup/

Where is that sticky we need to update with this info

bugfreebob

mcquaim wrote: »

Hi there,

My brother lives in an area with no other options for broadband other than mobile broadband.

He has been using various companies and is currently with Meteor and is happy enough with speeds but allowance isn't great.

His kids are now getting into gaming and they are constantly going over their allowance and getting screwed in their bills!

If any of his kids are in college, they could get the Meteor student deal - €9.99 pm for 25GB, or €19.99 for 50GB.

mcquaim

I set up the PAYG sim in the Huawei B593 router and the difference was massive!

He is now getting approx 11Mbps down and 2Mbps up. This was achieved when using the 3broadband.ie APN.

3ireland.ie and 3internet both worked but max achievable on either was around 5-6Mbps down.

It is also managing to pick up 4G so it must be picking up a different mast to the nearby mast as it doesn't have 4G.

The Ping is around 40ms so it should be fine for the boys gaming and now they shouldn't need to worry about going over the limits.

Thanks again for the help and info, appreciated.

Cheers,
mcquaim

editorsean

After getting a few PMs about this yesterday, as far as I remember, the comparison I did was in this post. However, that was comparing my phone (with an AYCE SIM) against a friend's 3 Broadband router (B593s-22 with bill pay broadband SIM.)

As I've just a 500MB bundle at the moment, I did some short tests earlier while waiting for some new car tyres to be fitted. I had 4 (of 5) bar signal on my phone in LTE mode and a full signal in 3G mode.

I used TestMy for these tests, as it's approximate to what I'll get downloading a file or streaming. The next time I do a €20 top-up which gives AYCE data, I'll do some further testing.

LTE tests (4G, 4 bars out of 5 signal):

• 3ireland.ie: 2.6Mbps
• 3broadband.ie: 3.2Mbps
• 3internet: 4Mbps
• nbs.ie: 1.6Mbps

HSPA+ tests (3G, full signal):

• 3ireland.ie: 2.5Mbps
• 3broadband.ie: 2.4Mbps
• 3internet: 2.4Mbps
• nbs.ie: 3.9Mbps

Finally on my way home, I did a speed test going through Kilcar with the 3broadband.ie APN set. I had a full LTE signal at the time. As soon as I arrived home, I re-ran the speed test on my home PC which is connected to my Huawei B593S-22 with an iD Mobile broadband SIM:



I did run into a few minor hiccups trying these tests, especially trying the 'nbs.ie' APN as my phone refused to go into LTE mode or even connect to data with it set. After trying the '3internet' one, the 'nbs.ie' one then worked fine. When switching back to the '3ireland.ie' one, I had to put my phone into and out of aeroplane mode, otherwise it would not connect to data.

To summarise, it looks like the broadband APNs work better with LTE mode, but still way short of what I'm getting on my home router with iD Mobile.

If only I could achieve the following...



That was when I tried a Vodafone SIM in my phone a few months ago.

ED E

Apologies for sending a deluge your way Sean. Great detail there.

Would be interesting to compare a Bill Pay BB sim with an AYCE PAYG sim but I won't be signing up to a 12mo contract in order to test that. With network load so high on average I doubt the delta would be too high anyways even if they are using any shaping per user class.

robbiep958

I dont think the apn really has anything to do with what speed you can get its all about the amount of traffic on the network .. Im living in rural ireland and the only good reliable broadband i can get is from three as eir can only supply me with 3mb max .. This is the speed im getting from three and its always reliable ..

speedtest.net/my-result/5213276151

mcquaim

robbiep958 wrote: »

I dont think the apn really has anything to do with what speed you can get its all about the amount of traffic on the network .. Im living in rural ireland and the only good reliable broadband i can get is from three as eir can only supply me with 3mb max .. This is the speed im getting from three and its always reliable ..

speedtest.net/my-result/5213276151

Based on the testing I did last night I'd have to disagree with you I'm afraid..

I was switching between each of the APN's yesterday evening and each consistently performed differently than the others!

3broadband.ie consistently gave the highest speeds after directly switching from 3ireland.ie or 3internet.

Maybe in some areas it doesn't matter but where I was testing it definitely did make a difference!

Kalyke

What are the APN choices for Meteor?

exaisle

mcquaim wrote: »

I set up the PAYG sim in the Huawei B593 router and the difference was massive!

He is now getting approx 11Mbps down and 2Mbps up. This was achieved when using the 3broadband.ie APN.

3ireland.ie and 3internet both worked but max achievable on either was around 5-6Mbps down.

It is also managing to pick up 4G so it must be picking up a different mast to the nearby mast as it doesn't have 4G.

The Ping is around 40ms so it should be fine for the boys gaming and now they shouldn't need to worry about going over the limits.

Thanks again for the help and info, appreciated.

Cheers,
mcquaim

How far away is the 4G antenna?

The B593 can take an external antenna....if you're getting less than 4 bars coverage, using an external antenna will improve speeds.

You can also check whether the nearest mast is 4g enabled at http://www.askcomreg.ie/mobile/siteviewer.273.LE.asp

mcquaim

exaisle wrote: »

How far away is the 4G antenna?

The B593 can take an external antenna....if you're getting less than 4 bars coverage, using an external antenna will improve speeds.

You can also check whether the nearest mast is 4g enabled at http://www.askcomreg.ie/mobile/siteviewer.273.LE.asp

I'm not entirely sure, no 4G mast that close to his house. I was using that site earlier but it is a long distance to the nearest 4G mast listed so I'm surprised if it's picking it up..

Maybe one close by has recently been upgraded and the site hasn't been updated yet.

The B593 is only showing 2 bars so I was thinking of getting a few external antennas to see what happens! It might be worth a try.

The brother was saying he got 20Mbps this evening so it's going great already anyway as the best he got on Meteor was 5-6Mbps..

editorsean

Kalyke wrote: »

What are the APN choices for Meteor?

The three I'm aware of are as follows:

• data.mymeteor.ie - Default one for phones
• isp.mymeteor.ie - For mobile broadband SIMs
• broadband.mymeteor.ie - Also for mobile broadband SIMs

With past testing with Meteor's 15GB prepay simplicity plan, both the 'data' and 'broadband' APNs give very similar speed, 8-12Mbps in my area and 18-25Mbps in Ballybofey, both on 3G with a full signal. I only once got a brief test on 4G, but was with a weak signal in Letterkenny and am fairly sure I got about 30Mbps on TestMy.

The 'isp' one does not work with Meteor's phone SIM, at least not the one I have.

I'm curious to give Meteor another test run now that they have 4G in Ballybofey. Just a pity they only give 4G with their more expensive €20 simplicity plan. With Three, normally I spend a month or two buying 500MB (€5) add-ons, followed by €20 to-up that gives a month of AYCE. Then again, Meteor's 3G speeds put Three's 4G speeds to shame in many areas, especially in Ballybofey where only Speedtest.net 's tricky can pull a 20+Mbps result after 4pm. With Meteor, both TestMy and Speedtest give roughly the same test results for me, similar to testing on a VDSL connection.

Beware: If you have a Vodafone or former O2 SIM, do not change your APN from what is provided for your phone or broadband plan, especially if you're on a bill pay plan. Vodafone will charge out of bundle rates if the 'hs.vodafone.ie' apn is used with a phone SIM. In fact, if their SIM is placed in a dongle, it will automatically set itself to 'hs.vodafone.ie' which happened to me when I tried out Vodafone a while back. O2 SIMs also charge according to the APN in use. For example, iPhones generally use two APNs for data, one for its own data and another for tethering. O2 have a different APN set for tethering, which results in an automatic €1.01/MB charge even on unlimited data plans as mentioned here. I'm not sure what APN gets used if an O2 phone SIM is used in a router, but certainly would advise against trying with a bill pay SIM.

editorsean

As Three mobile data on phones tends to grind to a near halt in the evenings, I decided to try one more test - SIM in Mobile vs router.

Due to the very weak 4G signal at my house which I use directional antenna for with my Huawei B593s-22 router, I drove several km to where I'm near the mast for the phone test and then retested right after arriving home.

The difference is quite drastic compared to trying different APNs, like Three is controlling bandwidth according to the type of device (e.g. by IMEI number) connecting to the network. I picked the 25MB test by mistake as it took a bit of patience like using a slow DSL line. At home, I tested with the smaller 6MB block size. As I'm using a 500MB bundle, I only ran downlink tests to save on data, as I decided to spend my €20 on a Meteor data bundle for this month.

Three on 4G - phone vs router with normal phone APN:



Three on 4G - phone vs router with the broadband APN:



One other thing I find rather odd is that my router will no longer connect to the Three network in 3G mode. If I set it to '3G', it just endlessly says 'No signal' and if I go through a network network search and select, it says "Network Register Fail" after a few seconds. Yet, the Three SIM works fine in my phone on 3G. The router works fine on 3G with Meteor and has worked fine with Three 3G the last time I ran a brief test a few weeks ago.

iD Mobile gave me roughly my usual test result even in the phone, although dipped a little when I put it back in the router when I was back home, both tested with the iD Mobile APN 'internet'. Uplink speed is slower than usual.

iD Mobile on 4G - phone vs router:


So like I mentioned earlier, it's pretty clear there's a vast difference between how Three allocates bandwidth between mobile and broadband SIMs and even devices as it seems here.

ED E

Now THAT is valuable. I don't know exactly how much info is transferred in the cell registration handshake but I wonder if the equivalent of a MAC spoof is possible here.

Do IMEIs have an OUI? Wiki says they do, referred to as a TAC. And the TAC on my handset is garbage/unofficial, so what happens there I wonder. Might have to do my own testing to see.

editorsean

As many some websites request the IMEI number to automatically identify the make and model of device (e.g. phone recycling), it's very likely the mobile networks do this to check what type of device is connecting to their network. This website gives an example, i.e. pop an IMEI number in and it shows what type of device it is, make, model, network bands and a few other details.

It's been quite a long time back that I studied mobile communications (in the days of GPRS), so can't remember much about how the IMEI is formed. I just like to read and experiment as a hobby now and of course share any interesting findings.

I currently have a prepay SIM for Vodafone, Three and Meteor and an iD Mobile broadband prepay SIM. Meteor is what I'm currently using for data on my phone, SIM slot #1 (due to Three's dreadful data speeds on phones as shown above), while my Three SIM is my main mobile # (calls and texts) in SIM slot #2. I use iD Mobile in addition to DSL for my home broadband (iD Mobile for speed/uploading and DSL for SD streaming and background downloading). I'm not using the Vodafone SIM, but may test it again at a later stage such as once their 4G comes to my area. It's highly unlikely I'll ever use Vodafone for my main connectivity unless they make their data plans more affordable.

robbiep958

Im currently getting 19.77mb on three > testmy.net/db/CfOT2Vj9G

Iv read your post about changing apns .. Im currently have 3ireland.ie apn set up on my router .. if i was to change this to another apn which one could i use for test purposes .

mcquaim

robbiep958 wrote: »

Im currently getting 19.77mb on three > testmy.net/db/CfOT2Vj9G

Iv read your post about changing apns .. Im currently have 3ireland.ie apn set up on my router .. if i was to change this to another apn which one could i use for test purposes .

You could try these:

3internet
3broadband.ie

Compare all 3 and see which is best.

mcquaim

I bought a Huawei B315s-22 for the sister and it was working quite well on a 3 PAYG sim and picking up 4G, getting around 14Mbps down.

The signal strength was quite low so I bought a 4G antenna and I installed it this morning!

Now I have full bars but only 3G coverage!

I am pointing the antenna on the roof at the nearest 4G mast but maybe it's not where the router was getting 4G without any antenna.

Any ideas?

ED E

There are quite a few variables there. What type of antenna? Have you checked siteviewer?

The hunt policy varies from device to device but often they will hop on a 3/5 3G vs a 2/5 4G link despite the effective rate of the 4G being much higher. You should be able to force 4G only mode, most devices support it somewhere. That will force it to latch onto a 4G cell even if the RSSI is very low.

editorsean

I tried a morning test, this time just with the router:

3ireland.ie vs 3broadband.ie APNs, both tested with a 25MB block:



My findings to date are:

The record speed on my phone with TestMy's stardard HTTP linear test was 16Mbps (if I recall right). Generally I very seldom hit 10Mbps even when when I checked around 8am to 9am on my way to work in the various spots I got good 4G coverage.

Both iD Mobile and Meteor show that I can achieve much faster throughputs on my phone, showing it's not the phone's hardware limitation, especially since iD Mobile operates on the Three 4G network.

While iD Mobile generally performs better at peak time, it seems to be capped around 20Mbps. It spikes a little higher with shorter tests, but rarely seen it deliver a test result higher than 25Mbps. The following on the left was immediately after I swapped back the SIMs this morning and the right gives an idea of what it sustains with lengthy downloads (2.5MB/s = 20Mbps):

mcquaim

ED E wrote: »

There are quite a few variables there. What type of antenna? Have you checked siteviewer?

The hunt policy varies from device to device but often they will hop on a 3/5 3G vs a 2/5 4G link despite the effective rate of the 4G being much higher. You should be able to force 4G only mode, most devices support it somewhere. That will force it to latch onto a 4G cell even if the RSSI is very low.

Hi Ed,

Yes, it was siteviewer that I used to locate the mast close by that I know has 4G.

This is the antenna:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/231284385944

I went back on the roof and using Hilink I was able to pick up 4G but only 3 bars so not much better than the router without an antenna connected.

The speeds are still not bad though, about 15Mbps but up to 20Mbps at times! I think the Ping is more solid with the antenna though.

I don't know why the router doesn't pick up the local mast. I see in the routers UI a setting to enable LTE but not one to force it to always use 4G only..

mcquaim

Hi folks,

This setup had been running fine until today when the sister was saying it was going on and off all day.

I went down this evening and I noticed it wasn't connecting to the 4G network, only 3G and every few minutes it would lose that too!

I went in and did a manual search on the router UI and it could see the 4G network but it just wouldn't connect to it.

I took the sim out of the router and put it in a phone but it would only pick up 3G also.

I checked the My 3 account for this sim and it was showing data still available.

I noticed on the HiLink app that they had used nearly 19GB of data so could 3 have blocked the sim already?

I'm not sure what to do with it now so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
mcquaim

Happy_Harry

I don't think it is down to data allowance, it will connect but simply not download anything if you used your allowance. You should get a message as well that you used your allowance.

My best guess would be faulty SIM or faulty tower. Maybe log a question on the three section here on boards and ask them if they can check there is an issue with the transmitter. Or else perhaps, just perhaps, they can suggest what else you can do.

Can you try with anyone else's sim card to rule out a faulty sim card ?

mcquaim

Happy_Harry wrote: »

I don't think it is down to data allowance, it will connect but simply not download anything if you used your allowance. You should get a message as well that you used your allowance.

My best guess would be faulty SIM or faulty tower. Maybe log a question on the three section here on boards and ask them if they can check there is an issue with the transmitter. Or else perhaps, just perhaps, they can suggest what else you can do.

Can you try with anyone else's sim card to rule out a faulty sim card ?

Good idea, I will borrow the brothers prepay sim tomorrow and try that in the router!

I will post back my findings.

Thanks!

robbiep958

mcquaim wrote: »

Hi folks,

This setup had been running fine until today when the sister was saying it was going on and off all day.

I went down this evening and I noticed it wasn't connecting to the 4G network, only 3G and every few minutes it would lose that too!

I went in and did a manual search on the router UI and it could see the 4G network but it just wouldn't connect to it.

I took the sim out of the router and put it in a phone but it would only pick up 3G also.

I checked the My 3 account for this sim and it was showing data still available.

I noticed on the HiLink app that they had used nearly 19GB of data so could 3 have blocked the sim already?

I'm not sure what to do with it now so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
mcquaim

Thats intresting . May i know what part of the country your from ? Same has happened to me lost it yesterday around 1 and i still have no 4g

mcquaim

robbiep958 wrote: »

Thats intresting . May i know what part of the country your from ? Same has happened to me lost it yesterday around 1 and i still have no 4g

Hi Robbie,

This is in North Monaghan near Emyvale. Where are you?

Cheers,
mcquaim

mcquaim

I tried the brothers PAYG sim in the router this evening and it's not working either..

It does connect briefly but very soon afterwards it disconnects!

The one difference is that when this sim does connect it can connect to the 4G network where as the other sim never seems to connect to it, only the 3G network.

I am going to take the router to my brothers house on Saturday and check that the fault is not the actual router.

If it works there then I need to try and find out which mast it is connecting to so I can report a fault to 3. Any idea how to find this out?

Happy_Harry

mcquaim wrote: »

The one difference is that when this sim does connect it can connect to the 4G network where as the other sim never seems to connect to it, only the 3G network.

I am going to take the router to my brothers house on Saturday and check that the fault is not the actual router.

If it works there then I need to try and find out which mast it is connecting to so I can report a fault to 3. Any idea how to find this out?

I downloaded an app Network Cell Info lite that seems to be able to tell which mast you are connecting to. Obviously it will only have the information about the signal your phone is using, but let's make an assumption that it is the same mast that your modem connects to..

Maybe ask the three crowd here on boards to check your account and see if anything is wrong - just to be sure ?
Reading your post again- could it perhaps be, that Three started to block tethering on the PAYG sim cards ? I believe you are using a phone sim as opposed to a MBB SIM ?
Did you change APNs and see if that made any change ?

editorsean

I had a quick check from my end and it's still the reverse here, i.e. 4G connects, but if I force my router into 3G-only mode, it endlessly says 'No Signal' and will not register with a manual network search.

I'm not sure if this is related, but there's a sharp drop in the 4G speed compared to when I tested my Three prepay SIM last Friday.

Three SIM with 3broadband.ie APN on left, re-test with iD Mobile SIM put back in:



So while the Three SIM still worked on my end, it would have been no better than my existing DSL connection at least at the moment.

What's also interesting is that I have noticed that when I put the iD Mobile broadband SIM in my phone, it will not go into 4G mode once I leave my area. For example, if I head to Ballybofey, it will stay in 3G mode at the office. However, when I brought the router with and put the iD SIM into the router, it would work fine in 4G and the same when I put the SIM back into my phone. However, once I headed back home, it would not work in the phone in 4G until I used it in the router.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take the router to work just to see whether it will connect in 3G or 4G mode there. I'm mainly curious to check what I get on the Meteor 4G network such as to compare its speed against having the SIM in my phone on TestMy.

mcquaim

Happy_Harry wrote: »

I downloaded an app Network Cell Info lite that seems to be able to tell which mast you are connecting to. Obviously it will only have the information about the signal your phone is using, but let's make an assumption that it is the same mast that your modem connects to..

Maybe ask the three crowd here on boards to check your account and see if anything is wrong - just to be sure ?
Reading your post again- could it perhaps be, that Three started to block tethering on the PAYG sim cards ? I believe you are using a phone sim as opposed to a MBB SIM ?
Did you change APNs and see if that made any change ?

Thanks for the reply! I will try that app and see if it helps. My problem is that I'm in a poor coverage area and need an antenna to pick up mobile broadband although the B315 can pick it up without an antenna. I can't even get 3G on my phone usually unless I'm upstairs out a window..

It is a 3 PAYG sim so perhaps you are rite. The brothers sim I tried this evening came out of his phone so it shouldn't had suffered the same issues.

I tried all the known APN 's but none made any difference I'm afraid.

I'm still hoping it is a local mast issue.

## Edit ##

I downloaded that app but I'm not understanding what the detail mean.

Is LAC & CID what I'm after?

In Monaghan town here I'm picking up LAC: 20009 CID: 27011.

How do I know where this is? Siteviewer doesn't seem to have the same info.

Any ideas?

## Edit 2 ##

I found this site, very handy!

http://cellphonetrackers.org/gsm/gsm-tracker.php

That being said I also discovered that the app has a map tab too, should have checked that out first..

Happy_Harry

mcquaim wrote: »

It is a 3 PAYG sim so perhaps you are rite. The brothers sim I tried this evening came out of his phone so it shouldn't had suffered the same issues.

If it came out of his phone , then it would suffer the same issue if they are clamping down on tethering, not good news and I doubt they are , but still..

That being said I also discovered that the app has a map tab too, should have checked that out first..

I remembered the map and also had no further idea what most of the techie stuff mean

mcquaim

Happy_Harry wrote: »

If it came out of his phone , then it would suffer the same issue if they are clamping down on tethering, not good news and I doubt they are , but still..



I remembered the map and also had no further idea what most of the techie stuff mean

I think more people would be reporting it if tethering was being blocked and Sean was able to use his yesterday evening!

I think/hope it is just a local mast issue..

I was checking the map on that app and the location from that link I posted above and both specify a mast location that doesn't exist on Siteviewer.

Perhaps Siteviewer isn't up to date or the details aren't accurate from the CID and LAC?

editorsean

I took my router to work and my Three SIM connects in both 3G and 4G modes. In 3G mode, it shows up as roaming as the network code of the 3G mast here was changed to 272 02 which shows as O2 Ireland.

As surprising as it sounds, the speed on 3G is faster (left) than 4G here (right), at least at this time of checking. I reran the tests back and forward and the results were similar.



I left the SIM in for about 20 minutes and it was still connected in 4G mode.

As for Meteor testing, the maximum speed I got on Meteor in the router was no different to my phone, peaking at 46Mbps after a handful of tests. Most tests were around the 40Mbps mark.



As for APNs, Meteor would only let me connect using the 'data.mymeteor.ie' APN with the SIM in the router. With any other APN including the 'broadband.mymeteor.ie' APN that worked with my previous dongle, it would give an error connecting, i.e. it would shows a strong 4G signal, 'Disconnected' and some error code as the connection status.

Edit: Tried one of the Leaseweb test files - This is the fastest I've seen on a 4G connection with an actual download:

mcquaim

Thanks Sean! I think then we can rule out any block on tethering from 3 as yours is still working fine?

I will be able to get more definitive results tomorrow when I test the router in a completely different area and see what happens then!

Thanks again for all the details!

editorsean

As it's my main phone SIM, I didn't want to leave it in much longer in case a call came in.

Once my credit runs out on the phone SIM, my plan is to move my number to Meteor and buy another Three SIM. This way I can do further testing without risking my mobile # also.

If Three decides to tackle tethering or SIM in router/table usage, I'm fairly sure they will go the approach Three UK does where it displays a place-holder web page saying that this usage is not permitted and all is fine once the SIM is put back in the phone and switched off for a few minutes.

Another possibility is they could go the Austria approach where they offer unlimited mobile broadband plans, which are €18/month for 3G, €25/month for 4G and higher plans for higher 'up to' speeds, e.g. 50Mbps and 150Mbps. Interestingly, they don't seem to have any unlimited bill or prepay phone plan like here.

Happy_Harry

mcquaim wrote: »

Perhaps Siteviewer isn't up to date or the details aren't accurate from the CID and LAC?

That is exactly what I experienced. I was connected to masts siteviewer doesn't list.. I will actually go and have a look this weekend and see if there are actually masts where the app says they are

editorsean

As I had my iD broadband SIM with earlier, I tried the reverse approach by putting it in my phone to see how long it would remain connected in 4G mode after using it in the router. The phone is dual SIM, so I could still use my main number on Three in the other slot. I think within an hour it fell back to 3G mode and indeed putting it in and out of aeroplane mode would not put it back on 4G. So it looks like I really need to have the Three SIM in the router for several hours to see whether it maintains a 4G connection.

I'm not quite sure why iD (or more likely Three) would prevent a broadband SIM working on 4G in a phone, but that's been the case since I got my iD SIM two months ago. This did kill one plan I considered where I thought about using two iD SIMs in rotation (e.g. 25GB and 45GB bundles) with my router. If this worked, it would have given considerably faster data on my phone than my normal Three phone SIM and let me use the most of my data of both bundles as my normal phone usage is around 2GB per month, apart from running speed tests.

Basically the following shows what happens when 4G is not allowed:

With my iD broadband SIM in the phone, I put it into and out of aeroplane mode, which normally puts my Three SIM straight into 4G. Like with my Three SIM, it initially gives the impression that it's on LTE, but the exclamation mark does not clear:



After a few seconds, the icon changes to 'Emergency calls only':



After about 10 seconds, it finally connects in 3G mode:



If I toggle aeroplane mode again, the above process repeats.

mcquaim

Hi folks,

I borrowed a bill pay data sim and my brothers pre pay phone sim and tried both in the router and neither would work!

I disconnected the antenna cables and power cord to take the whole lot to my brothers house to check there!

I just decided to try it again in one of the upstairs bedrooms where I get the best reception and what do you know, it's working fine again...

I then tried the original PAYG sim back in the router and it's working fine too, WTF..

So, the antenna is making things worse than without! I must have it pointed ares-ways!!

When I initially installed it I struggled to get 4G so I spent a good while on the roof finely moving it until it settled with the best signal I could get..

I guess I'm back to the roof again

I guess it's good news that the tethering isn't being blocked but I'm concerned with the antenna now and how good it actually is.. Perhaps it moved..

That app to find the mast where the signal is coming from just says location not found for here.

The details on LTE are different though, much more variables listed.

Would any of you know if I posted a screenshot?

### Edit ###

After a very long day up and down ladders I'm no further on really.. What I do know is that no matter what if I've the antenna connected to the router it will simply not pick up 4G.

I thought that perhaps it might be the router so I borrowed my brothers B593 router. It was the same however, it just won't take to 4G.

The strange thing is that it was working so I can't figure out what has changed. I contacted the seller on eBay and he said it sounds like interference of some sort..

To me it sounds like a hardware failure as it had been working and then suddenly just stopped.. So, what to try next.. I'm kind of stumped with this now!

Anyone with suggestions would be greatly appreciated here.,

Thanks,
Mac

editorsean

If the 4G mast you're picking up is quite far away, one possibility is that another 4G mast went into operation on the same frequency in another direction, assuming your roof antenna is an omni-directional atenna. In this instance, the antenna would have problems trying to lock on to one without picking put interference from the other.

If this is what's happening, this would explain why the indoor router has a better chance of picking up the wanted signal when placed towards the side of the house facing the wanted mast. The unwanted signal would then be attenuated as it tries passing through walls and objects in the other direction.

One thing you could try is take down the external antenna and try holding it up against a wall that faces the general direction of the wanted mast such as against the gable to see if the router will connect to 4G. If this works, then you will either need to move the antenna to this location or replace it with a directional antenna. Unfortunately this means bringing out the ladders again to try out.

That's a real bummer to hear, especially with it working fine until recently.

mcquaim

Hi Sean,

That's an interesting theory and could explain it alright.

I might be able to mount the antenna at this side of the house alright and see if it helps but it will involve quite a bit of messing.

I have the B315 connected into a Draytek 2850Vn which shares out the 4G and a crappy ADSL connection! To move the antenna would mean a completely different run of cables.

It might be easier to get a replacement antenna that is directional. I might ask the eBay seller and see if he will do anything for me!

Thanks for the help again Sean, appreciated.

mcquaim

mcquaim wrote: »

Hi Sean,

That's an interesting theory and could explain it alright.

I might be able to mount the antenna at this side of the house alright and see if it helps but it will involve quite a bit of messing.

I have the B315 connected into a Draytek 2850Vn which shares out the 4G and a crappy ADSL connection! To move the antenna would mean a completely different run of cables.

It might be easier to get a replacement antenna that is directional. I might ask the eBay seller and see if he will do anything for me!

Thanks for the help again Sean, appreciated.

Hi Sean,

I think you were bang on the money with this.

I took down the antenna and monuted it at the back of the house with the wall behind it and it pointing towards the nearest mast from Siteviewer!

Bingo, getting 3 bars 4G signal and a consistent 18-20Mbps download speed.

Thanks again as I never would have thought of moving the antenna, I thought it was faulty..

Cheers,
Mac

editorsean

As I could not improve my signal strength / quality figures, I tried a different method of adjusting my antenna - Measuring the actual throughout as I move an individual antenna.

Based on connecting the leads from the outdoor MIMO panel antenna one at a time, the vertical polarity gave the strongest signal of 100dBm RSRP. So I left that one put as it's quite high up on the gable, not to mention raining at the time.

I have a spare wideband LOG antenna from earlier testing, so I connected it to the second antenna input on the router and started walking about the room in the loft where I have the router. As I suspected, I could not improve upon the signal strength I was getting on the outdoor antenna.

At it was Saturday afternoon, my throughput was jumping about the place with even the Leaseweb test downloads. As I know Three delivers more throughput with multi-threaded connections (as how Speedtest tests) especially at peak time, I ran TestMy's largest 200MB block multi-threaded with a Three SIM in the router and opened the Windows task manager on the Performance tab with the network traffic graph (WiFi in this case). This gave me about a minute to position the antenna before the test would complete.

As the test ran, I walked about again with the antenna and sure enough there was a clear fluctuation in the Task Manager's throughput graph depending on how I aimed the antenna. After finding the sweet spot, I stacked a bunch of empty boxes and laid the antenna on top.

The signal figures appear unchanged in the router's status - RSSI (-77dBm), RSRP (-100dBm) and RSRQ (-7dB). Only 3 of 5 bars are lit on the router also.

The maximum speed I could get before was about 32Mbps (multi-threaded) and now I'm getting just over 40Mbps even on a linear early in the day. As usual the speed drops well down in the evening after around 5pm with YouTube struggling to play in 720p at times.

Left - Outdoor antenna only (multi-threaded), right - Outdoor on vertical polarity, loft antenna on horizontal polarity and Speedtest.net for the burst multi-threaded throughput:



Test transfer using Leaseweb's test files, 11:50am:



It's also surprising just how much the speed varies between whether Three's SIM is in a router or in my phone. I moved my main number to Meteor as web browsing on my phone was feeling more like an Edge connection with some websites taking 10 seconds for the first content to start appearing, even with a full LTE signal. For comparison, Meteor gives roughly the same speed whether the SIM is in my phone or router as long as the signal strength is good on each. The Three SIM I'm using here is another I picked up to let me continue testing as the original obviously got deactivated once I moved my number.

editorsean

As usual for this time of evening, YouTube is practically unplayable here in 720p on Three, yet the Speedtests show adequate bandwidth and my 5Mb DSL connection rarely gives an issue streaming in 720p.

So I played a bunch of random videos forced in 720p mode and took sccreenshots of the "Stats for nerds" screen along with the URLs. I then switched back to DSL and checked the same videos. Every one played fine in 720p and coincidentally one played from the same server ID, which rules out it playing from congested YouTube servers.

So I repeated the tests once again this time using HMA to connect to an Irish VPN server. Sure enough, every single video played fine over the VPN and the 1080p videos had no problem playing in 1080p mode also without a glitch. Just like the DSL connection, one of the videos played from the same server ID, so I grabbed another screenshot.

Direct connection on the left and over HMA VPN connection on the right:



Either Three is throttling YouTube or it has severe congestion along whatever route it goes over to the YouTube servers. When I took the right screenshot, it had the full video buffered at that point.

Going by TestMy and a Leasweb test file download, I had roughly 7Mbps of bandwidth at the time:



... or 43Mbps according to Speedtest:

ED E

Do you see similar to the HEANET mirrors(7 vs 40)?

There should be zero peering issues there as they all co-lo at Citywest. If the same speeds apply you can be pretty sure there's severe shaping rules in place. o2 used Sandvine, three UK have something under their own branding but it may be bought in.

About TrafficSense™.
TrafficSense™ is a term we use to describe how we manage traffic on our network. It’s designed to give you the best possible mobile internet experience by:

improving the consistency and quality of your experience in parts of our network where a lot of people are already using it at once
preventing our network from slowing down as more people join us.
We don’t constrain the amount of data you can use (subject to your data allowances, of course). But, for example, between 3pm and 12 midnight, we dedicate a certain amount of bandwidth to file sharing and to tethering, so that all other types of traffic can make the most of the rest of it. We don’t block file sharing. We just manage it at times when it affects other people trying to use our network.

We also optimise video streaming, so that you get a smoother streaming experience, and use less of any data allowances you might have. You shouldn’t notice any difference in video quality.

Without TrafficSense™, a small minority of users could take up a large proportion of our network capacity throughout the day. This would inevitably affect a large majority of people trying to do simple things like browsing the web.

Our approaches may vary over time in order to meet network demand. The latest information on TrafficSense™ and how it may affect you is available on this page and there's more detailed information in our TrafficSense™ facts document, or you can see what we say about traffic management in our terms and conditions.

Obviously you still have the ADSL option but if Three interests you I'd rent a Linode/similar VPS, run OpenVPN and push everything that way from a DDWRT box.

editorsean

I just checked now and indeed so. After about 20MB downloaded from a random ISO on Heanet, it settled about 930KB/s (~7.2Mbps). I stopped and immediately ran Speedtest.net: