Electric Ireland - Free Nest Heating Thermostat + Installation

mel123 · 08-04-2016 11:20AM

toby2111 wrote: »

We live in an old bungalow,no zones or anything. 2 valves on tank,1 for water,1 for rads. In summer,I just turn down thermostat in hall so rads dont come on. New Nest does heating and water seperately which is what I need. Being able to operate/change schedule from mobile is a big plus as we waste oil while not in the house. Cost wise,it seems that Nest may be the best option. Our monthly electricity bill will increase by €10 or so but it may help reduce our oil usage also.

Why will the bill increase by €10 per month? Im thinking of getting one of these but didnt think there was any cost implications?

toby2111 · 08-04-2016 11:38AM

mel123 wrote: »

Why will the bill increase by €10 per month? Im thinking of getting one of these but didnt think there was any cost implications?

You'll pay standard rate with no discount so your bill will probably go up slightly (unless you were on a non discounted rate). I used switcher.ie last night and did my own calculations. It'll actually work out at an extra €150 over 2 years so about €6 per month. But it means I'm getting an upgraded system so I'm fine with that. And I'll hopefully save on fuel so it may not cost much at all. I switched online last night.

bidiots · 08-04-2016 02:14PM

toby2111 wrote: »

You'll pay standard rate with no discount so your bill will probably go up slightly (unless you were on a non discounted rate). I used switcher.ie last night and did my own calculations. It'll actually work out at an extra €150 over 2 years so about €6 per month. But it means I'm getting an upgraded system so I'm fine with that. And I'll hopefully save on fuel so it may not cost much at all. I switched online last night.

This is the bit thats confusing me about any savings. When house is occupied, heat will be on when needed. When house is empty, no heat on. Do these nest/climote etc aim to keep house at a constant temp throughout the day when occupied? Would this not increase costs?
Also, I posted a link earlier about the Nest deal, rather than this current deal, there is a deal to get boiler serviced then buy the Nest for 249, which won't affect any rate you might be on....

yllw.ldbttr · 08-04-2016 02:19PM

bidiots wrote: »

This is the bit thats confusing me about any savings. When house is occupied, heat will be on when needed. When house is empty, no heat on. Do these nest/climote etc aim to keep house at a constant temp throughout the day when occupied? Would this not increase costs?
Also, I posted a link earlier about the Nest deal, rather than this current deal, there is a deal to get boiler serviced then buy the Nest for 249, which won't affect any rate you might be on....

For me it's more about comfort than savings.
My Netatmo knows how long it takes the house to heat and with the inside and outside temp it will variably start the boiler at a different time so that the house is at the desired temp at my specified time.
I'd guess the savings appear in that it also learns how fast the house heats so it kills the boiler to prevent overshooting, which a lot of dumb stats will not do. That probably saves a little fuel.

Also, I reckon they are estimating a certain amount of heating switched on when nobody is at home, which their smart stat should eliminate, or let you switch off remotely.

They require a shift in how you think about heating the house, which my wife struggled with I have to admit.
Go from "have heating on for x hours" so set time to X degrees for hours A to B.
Some mornings the heating will not come on, and my wife asks why.... simple, because the house is already at or above the set temp.

bk · 08-04-2016 03:02PM

I think it depends on how you currently use your heating.

I think there are a lot of people who simply leave their heating on all day at full blast, even when they are out (so it is warm when they get home) or they might set it to come on at 5pm for when they come home from work, but then end up heading out for drinks after work instead, thus waiting lots of heating.

These people can save a lot of money with smart thermostats.

However if you are the type of person who only turns on your heat when you actually need it, then I think the saves are much less or maybe non at all, you might even end up using more if you use the thermostat in smart auto mode.

yllw.ldbttr · 08-04-2016 03:07PM

bk wrote: »

I think it depends on how you currently use your heating.

I think there are a lot of people who simply leave their heating on all day at full blast, even when they are out (so it is warm when they get home) or they might set it to come on at 5pm for when they come home from work, but then end up heading out for drinks after work instead, thus waiting lots of heating.

These people can save a lot of money with smart thermostats.

However if you are the type of person who only turns on your heat when you actually need it, then I think the saves are much less or maybe non at all, you might even end up using more if you use the thermostat in smart auto mode.

On the ball, I work from home sometimes and found that in smart mode (with default config) I was probably using more oil than before, until I figured out how to configure the device to my exact requirements.

JDxtra · 08-04-2016 03:32PM

bk wrote: »

I think it depends on how you currently use your heating.

I think there are a lot of people who simply leave their heating on all day at full blast, even when they are out (so it is warm when they get home) or they might set it to come on at 5pm for when they come home from work, but then end up heading out for drinks after work instead, thus waiting lots of heating.

These people can save a lot of money with smart thermostats.

However if you are the type of person who only turns on your heat when you actually need it, then I think the saves are much less or maybe non at all, you might even end up using more if you use the thermostat in smart auto mode.

100% agree here. What also happens, for example, if you are at home at cleaning the house i.e. being physically active? Nest in learning mode may switch the heating on because of the room temperature - but this doesn't take into account your own personal temperature!

bk · 08-04-2016 04:20PM

JDxtra wrote: »

100% agree here. What also happens, for example, if you are at home at cleaning the house i.e. being physically active? Nest in learning mode may switch the heating on because of the room temperature - but this doesn't take into account your own personal temperature!

Absolutely 100% I was just thinking something similar.

Often if I come home from a run, then I don't want the heat on at all as my body temperature is already way up. But on the other hand on a lazy Sunday when I'm chilling out and being very inactive at home, I might want the heat on as a comfort, even though I don't really need it. Nest doesn't take any of this into account.

That is why I ended up going with a cheaper wifi thermostat rather then the more expensive Nest. As I work a very inconsistent schedule, I just wanted a thermostat that I could turn on when I left the office over wifi on a cold winter day.

Interestingly my neighbour who bought Nest found the same and ended up disabling the smart auto feature too and instead just uses it as a simple wifi thermostat.

I do think "basic" wifi thermostats (like Netatmo, Insipred, etc.) are well worth it for everyone and should be installed by default with all homes. Nest on the other hand also works fine as a wifi thermostat, but I'm less convinced by it's laerning features and I'm not sure it is worth the premium over other wifi thermostats.

mel123 · 08-04-2016 04:25PM

is there something you can get just to turn the heating and water on/off remotely??
Thats really why i want it, you know instead of having to go home, turn the water on, wait an hour for the water to heat up, and i dont want to set my timer to come on at a certain time every day because thats just wasteful when probably most of the time i wont use it at that time. Im one of the people like above, i only turn it on when i need it.

yllw.ldbttr · 08-04-2016 04:31PM

mel123 wrote: »

is there something you can get just to turn the heating and water on/off remotely??
Thats really why i want it, you know instead of having to go home, turn the water on, wait an hour for the water to heat up, and i dont want to set my timer to come on at a certain time every day because thats just wasteful when probably most of the time i wont use it at that time. Im one of the people like above, i only turn it on when i need it.

Half solution and half to think about, but I went with Netatmo even though it does heating only.

I schedule my hot water for early morning and have it set to only heat to 50 degrees (enough for a few people to have showers). My logic behind this is that the hot water tank is incredibly well insulated. I've seen it lose only 1 to 2 degrees over the course of 24 hours if it's not used. I have solar panels as well which top it up most days, except in the depths of winter. On sunny days I'll usually have 300 litres at 70 degrees which even if unused, will still be high 60s next morning and will prevent the boiler from firing as it will be in excess of the target 50.

Worth thinking about it. That said, if you have big demands for hot water on a variable schedule (without solar) you'd be better off with a multi zone device which can control your water.

yllw.ldbttr · 08-04-2016 04:40PM

bk wrote: »

Absolutely 100% I was just thinking something similar.

Often if I come home from a run, then I don't want the heat on at all as my body temperature is already way up. But on the other hand on a lazy Sunday when I'm chilling out and being very inactive at home, I might want the heat on as a comfort, even though I don't really need it. Nest doesn't take any of this into account.

That is why I ended up going with a cheaper wifi thermostat rather then the more expensive Nest. As I work a very inconsistent schedule, I just wanted a thermostat that I could turn on when I left the office over wifi on a cold winter day.

Interestingly my neighbour who bought Nest found the same and ended up disabling the smart auto feature too and instead just uses it as a simple wifi thermostat.

I do think "basic" wifi thermostats (like Netatmo, Insipred, etc.) are well worth it for everyone and should be installed by default with all homes. Nest on the other hand also works fine as a wifi thermostat, but I'm less convinced by it's laerning features and I'm not sure it is worth the premium over other wifi thermostats.

I agree with almost everything you've said above except that Netatmo does have a learning module. It's not on par with Nest, but I found it contradicted what I was trying to achieve so I turned it off.

I really like the monthly reporting though. I should stop commenting before I'm accused of being a shill, but I really like this product.

toby2111 · 08-04-2016 04:43PM

I went with the Nest as it does water and heating now. As I said previously , it could cost me about €150(or less) spread out over 2 years. As far as I can see, there's no other comparable device out there for less than €200 supplied and fitted. But that's only my humble opinion.

bk · 08-04-2016 06:15PM

toby2111 wrote: »

I went with the Nest as it does water and heating now. As I said previously , it could cost me about €150(or less) spread out over 2 years. As far as I can see, there's no other comparable device out there for less than €200 supplied and fitted. But that's only my humble opinion.

I think people might be misunderstanding the Nest deal and how much is going to cost them!

Going by the national average electricity usage, the Nest plan will cost €428 over 2 years more then going with the best value deal from Energia which gives you 26% off.

So you are basically paying €428 for the Nest!!!

If you don't need hot water control, then Netatmo for €79 from Energia including boiler service will work out €428 cheaper over two years!!

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

I agree with almost everything you've said above except that Netatmo does have a learning module. It's not on par with Nest, but I found it contradicted what I was trying to achieve so I turned it off.

I really like the monthly reporting though. I should stop commenting before I'm accused of being a shill, but I really like this product.

Ah, didn't realise that. I agree the Netatmo looks like a very nice system if you don't need hot water or multizone control. Probably the best "simple" wifi thermostat available in Ireland. It wasn't available when I got my Inspired Home Automation wifi remote.

I wonder if the Energia deal of a free Netatmo Thermostat with a €79 boiler service is the new Apple HomeKit version? I'd be very tempted to get it if it was and replace my existing wifi thermostat with it if it was.

toby2111 · 08-04-2016 06:59PM

That Energia/Netatmo deal looks good but it's only for Dublin & Cork regions( I don't live there) . And its only for gas boilers (I use oil). And it doesn't heat water. Still a great deal if you meet their criteria.

toby2111 · 08-04-2016 07:02PM

Also that 26% off Energia is 26% off their standard rate. If you're on a discounted deal with another provider, it's less.

bk · 08-04-2016 07:39PM

toby2111 wrote: »

Also that 26% off Energia is 26% off their standard rate. If you're on a discounted deal with another provider, it's less.

Sure, but I directly compared the Electric Ireland Nest deal versus the Energia deal over 24 months and for the average Irish home, Electric Ireland works out at €428 more!!

Electric Ireland Nest Deal: €1181 per year
Energia Deal: €967 per year
A difference of €214

The Nest deal requires a two year contract, so you are looking at €428 to get this Nest deal.

By comparison buying Nest + stand + installation separately yourself costs €428

Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but I'm just not sure people are doing the price comparison correctly on this.

If you live in Dublin/Cork and don't need hot water control, then going with Energia + Netatmo can save someone €428. Now that is a bargain IMO.

toby2111 · 08-04-2016 07:51PM

I used switcher.ie (which matched my own calculations). The Energia deal would save me just over €100 a year, in comparison to my currently discounted rate(which has just finished) . Nest deal would cost me €100 a year in comparison to the my currently discounted rate. EI have €50 switching few so Nest costs me extra €150 over 2 years. OK, I could save €200 over that period by going to Energia but I was looking to upgrade my old 24 hour timer anyway so I figure it's worth the extra few euro a month to get a Nest.
At end of the day, Nest deal won't suit everyone, just like the Energia/Netatmo deal, but it appeals to me in my situation.

ted1 · 08-04-2016 08:34PM

bk wrote: »

Absolutely 100% I was just thinking something similar.

Often if I come home from a run, then I don't want the heat on at all as my body temperature is already way up. But on the other hand on a lazy Sunday when I'm chilling out and being very inactive at home, I might want the heat on as a comfort, even though I don't really need it. Nest doesn't take any of this into account

You just take your phone out of you pocket and turn it down, or turn it down by the dial or at your PV, it the learns your pattern

gar · 09-04-2016 09:43AM

Ok forgive my ignorance.
Boiler is on an analogue timer. Would the netatmo just replace it?
No thermostat connected to the boiler I believe. Its either on or not.
Dial in the boiler to adjust heat.
Its a baxi solo 2

ted1 · 09-04-2016 10:01AM

gar wrote: »

Ok forgive my ignorance.
Boiler is on an analogue timer. Would the netatmo just replace it?
No thermostat connected to the boiler I believe. Its either on or not.
Dial in the boiler to adjust heat.
Its a baxi solo 2

Analogue , Digital, smart, dumb timers and thermostats all work exactly the same. They either open or close a switch. The difference is how and when they do it. A timer does it purely based on time , a thermostat does it based on set temperatures, so nearly all are interchangeable.

bidiots · 13-04-2016 05:18PM

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/nest-learning-thermostat-2nd-gen-119-99-amazon-lowest-ever-price-2430350

toby2111 · 26-04-2016 08:32PM

Lads,need your opinion on this as ye seem a knowledgeable bunch! Got Nest installed today,had to get my Dad to let the installer in as I was at work. Electricity account is in my wifes name so he rang her and said he couldn't place the Nest were our old thermostat is in the hallway. He said to her during the summer we just manually turn down the old thermostat fully and it will heat the water only.......but does that not defeat the whole purpose of the 3rd Generation Nest? Plus how will the Nest now know when to stop heating the water during the summer? I'm a bit skeptical and think he was just too lazy to install it properly but I dont know anything about heating. Theres no option in the app or on the Nest to boost or just heat water.

On Nest Support section it says "If you have a 3rd-gen Nest Thermostat but can't see hot water controls in the app or on the thermostat, your installer may have installed the thermostat to control your heating only, leaving your hot water control to your system programmer." So was the installer correct? I've attached a picture of our old thermostat,if that helps?

ninty · 27-04-2016 11:33AM

Hi Toby,

It definitely sounds a bit odd, if the terminals 5 & 6 haven't been wired on the Heat Link (White Box) that was installed near your boiler you will not see any options for Hot Water controls on the Nest Thermostat or Nest App. Also, if you have a combi boiler which previously gave hot wat water on demand you won't get the Hot water options as these types of systems aren't designed to control hot water independently from your heating.

https://nest.com/uk/support/article/What-kind-of-heating-do-I-have

It's strange that he was not able to install the Thermostat where your old one was, did he give any particular reason for this?

Did he leave your old Thermostat installed?

toby2111 · 27-04-2016 01:00PM

ninty wrote: »

It's strange that he was not able to install the Thermostat where your old one was, did he give any particular reason for this?

Did he leave your old Thermostat installed?

He just rang my wife and said "it couldn't be done". He advised us to turn up the old themostat(which he left) in winter to heat water and rads and to turn it down fully in summer to heat water alone....But I wanted control over hot water and not to have to use that old thermostat.

Here's a pic of our hot press,maybe its because we had a crappy 24 hour APT timer clock??

Electric Ireland - Free Nest Heating Thermostat + Installation

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