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NI Woman Gets Suspended Sentence for Using Abortion Pills

  • 04-04-2016 07:12PM
    #1
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭


    I couldn't believe this when I read it. I naively didn't even believe that situations like this actually carried the possibility of sentencing. The poor woman was desperate by the looks of things. It made me angry to read it, knowing as well just how dangerous though pills can be for women, especially since they will have zero medical supervision after consuming them, as they can often have very serious side effects. Her punishment seems very harsh considering she was only 19 at the time. What do ye think? Was this an appropriate response by the courts?

    RTÉ:
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0404/779444-abortion-pills-procuring-miscarriage/
    The male foetus, which was between 10 and 12 weeks old, was later found in the bin of a house she shared with two other people.

    In court she pleaded guilty to two charges - namely procuring her own abortion by using a poison, and of supplying a poison with intent to procure a miscarriage.

    Imposing a three-month sentence suspended for two years the judge spoke of the potential dangers of taking the drugs which are readily available on the internet but which should only ever be taken under medical supervision.

    More information is given in the BBC Article: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-35962134
    A prosecution lawyer told the court that when the woman moved into the house in May 2014, she told her two housemates that she was pregnant but that she was trying to raise the money to travel to England for a termination.
    However, after she was unable to raise enough money, she contacted an abortion clinic in England for advice.
    She claims that she was told by the clinic about two drugs that were available on the internet and which would induce a miscarriage.
    When she was arrested, the then 19-year old made no comment in police interviews.
    Before passing sentence, the judge said there were no guidelines or similar cases to compare this to, adding in his experience there have been no other prosecutions under this specific piece of legislation - namely Section 58 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.
    He said the legislation was 150 years old and had been substantially amended in England, Scotland and Wales but not in Northern Ireland.


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Comments

  • #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nosy flipping housemates should've minded their own business.


  • #3
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    I think the same offence carries a sentence of up to14 years here, could be wrong though


  • #4
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Stheno wrote: »
    I think the same offence carries a sentence of up to14 years here, could be wrong though

    Yeah it does so we can hardly judge NI when we have a similar attitude. I feel so sorry for this girl. This conviction will follow her around for the rest of her life.


  • #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Nosy flipping housemates should've minded their own business.

    If I had found a foetus in a bin, I probably would have reported it too. This is completely beyond the issue here, but you can understand why they did.

    It seems odd that an abortion clinic informed her to do it. Was there any mention to her about having medical personnel present?


  • #6
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Yeah it does so we can hardly judge NI when we have a similar attitude. I feel so sorry for this girl. This conviction will follow her around for the rest of her life.

    Really 14 years!? That's insanity!:eek: Oh I'm not judging NI, I think the rest of Ireland is just as bad. It's just the first case I've seen where someone has actually been sentenced. Pretty bad for her housemates to report her most likely knowing what would happen.


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  • #7
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If I had found a foetus in a bin, I probably would have reported it too. This is completely beyond the issue here, but you can understand why they did.

    She had told her housemates though that she wanted to have an abortion but couldn't save up the money. They would have put two and two together, though throwing it in the bin was not the best course of action she was probably panicked at the time.
    It seems odd that an abortion clinic informed her to do it. Was there any mention to her about having medical personnel present?
    Seems from the article it was an abortion clinic online she got the information from, so that sounds shady enough. Any decent place would not suggest taking pills like that even in dire situations.


  • #8
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If I had found a foetus in a bin, I probably would have reported it too. This is completely beyond the issue here, but you can understand why they did.

    Yeah I'd be the same. Not something you come across every day. Bizzare find. I'm sure whoever found it was shocked by it.


  • #9
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If I had found a foetus in a bin, I probably would have reported it too. This is completely beyond the issue here, but you can understand why they did.

    It seems odd that an abortion clinic informed her to do it. Was there any mention to her about having medical personnel present?

    Would never have found a doctor/nurse to witness it because they'd have been leaving them wide open to prosecution themselves.


  • #10
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If I had found a foetus in a bin, I probably would have reported it too. This is completely beyond the issue here, but you can understand why they did.

    It seems odd that an abortion clinic informed her to do it. Was there any mention to her about having medical personnel present?

    Calling the police would be the last thing I would do. Even if you didn't know about her wanting an abortion surely your first thought would be miscarriage. She did nothing wrong, she isn't a criminal but because she lives in a backward hole she now has this conviction against her for the rest of her life.


  • #11
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    And the courts response isn't going to stop cases like this happening if there are women out there desperate enough. I honestly can't comprehend the reasoning behind keeping this law, it's making the situation so much worse. It doesn't stop abortions it just strives women to go to desperate measures to get one. Honestly it's frightening in this day and age to have laws like this.


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  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    We don't exactly know how the bin was found. Imagine if it was a refuse bin outside, a wheelie bin. You open up, see a foetus, but might not know where it came from, and call the police. You assume your first thought would be, "oh i know where it came from", but mine would be, "there's a foetus here, better call the police".

    This is all assumptions and hypothetical, because I don't know all the facts, but, personally speaking, if I had found a foetus in a bin, I would report it.

    It's an unfortunate circumstance for the poor girl and a sign of issues within the law.


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Calling the police would be the last thing I would do. Even if you didn't know about her wanting an abortion surely your first thought would be miscarriage. She did nothing wrong, she isn't a criminal but because she lives in a backward hole she now has this conviction against her for the rest of her life.

    I'd report it because to me it would indicate either an abortion or a miscarriage without any medical supervision, I'd be worried about the state of the woman, worried she was bleeding or alone and unable to reach out for help.

    I think most people who find a foetus in (say) a wheelie bin would be the same.


  • #14
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    She broke the law and got a suspended sentence. People have spent time in jail for less.


  • #15
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    What about all the self induced miscarriages following old wives tales, ridiculous potions you make up, drinking, doing absolutely everything anti pregnancy you can think of to bring on a miscarriage. Is that open to the same punishment?

    What about the women who have a miscarriage naturally and flush the foetus down the toilet? What do you do in that situation?

    Her housemates are clearly very nasty. You'd think the poor girl was traumatised enough


  • #16
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Candie wrote: »
    I'd report it because to me it would indicate either an abortion or a miscarriage without any medical supervision, I'd be worried about the state of the woman, worried she was bleeding or alone and unable to reach out for help.

    I think most people who find a foetus in (say) a wheelie bin would be the same.

    Why would you report it to the police? I'd bring her to a well woman clinic or Stopes. Heaping more trauma onto her would be the last thing I'd do.


  • #17
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    What about all the self induced miscarriages following old wives tales, ridiculous potions you make up, drinking, doing absolutely everything anti pregnancy you can think of to bring on a miscarriage. Is that open to the same punishment?

    I'd imagine so.


  • #18
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Why would you report it to the police? I'd bring her to a well woman clinic or Stopes. Heaping more trauma onto her would be the last thing I'd do.
    They most likely know it was there housemate if she had intimated her desire to terminate the pregnancy prior to that. Most likely the bin was just their own, if the housemates found it. The girls would be well aware of the negative response from the authorities and would have thought twice about reporting it.


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Why would you report it to the police? I'd bring her to a well woman clinic or Stopes. Heaping more trauma onto her would be the last thing I'd do.

    Assuming you don't know where it came from there could be someone somewhere in a horrible position and in dire need of medical help. I would feel morally obliged to report it to the police to help track down the woman.

    Again this is all assumptions because I don't know. I don't think any of us do for sure?


  • #20
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Assuming you don't know where it came from there could be someone somewhere in a horrible position and in dire need of medical help. I would feel morally obliged to report it to the police to help track down the woman.

    Again this is all assumptions because I don't know. I don't think any of us do for sure?

    She had told them she was pregnant, it's not rocket science that if you find a foetus then you ask your pregnant housemate what happened. Of course she needs medical attention so you bring her to someone who can give that. Phoning the cops isn't helping her.


  • #21
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Yeah it does so we can hardly judge NI when we have a similar attitude. I feel so sorry for this girl. This conviction will follow her around for the rest of her life.

    Tell me you're joking?


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  • #22
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Tell me you're joking?

    Somehow I don't think this is a topic for joking? I can't quite see what you find humorous about her comment.


  • #23
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Tell me you're joking?

    Joking about what :confused:


  • #24
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Whats the cops going to do for a woman who's just lost her baby? Bring her into the EPU in the local garda station, and scan her to make sure? Organise a D and C in one of the interview rooms??


  • #25
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Precious flower wrote: »
    Somehow I don't think this is a topic for joking? I can't quite see what you find humorous about her comment.

    I meant I hope this conviction won't follow her around.


  • #26
    FizzleSticks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭FizzleSticks


    This post has been deleted.


  • #27
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I meant I hope this conviction won't follow her around.
    Sorry :o I almost wouldn't be surprised if it did.


  • #28
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Whats the cops going to do for a woman who's just lost her baby?

    Probably put out an alert, help her find it. Unless she's suffered a miscarriage - then they'd direct her towards appropriate medical and psychological care.


  • #29
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I meant I hope this conviction won't follow her around.

    She's been convicted so like any conviction it's going to show up on a background check.


  • #30
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    thee glitz wrote: »
    Probably put out an alert, help her find it. Unless she's suffered a miscarriage - then they'd direct her towards appropriate medical and psychological care.


    As opposed to bringing her directly to the hospital?


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  • #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The housemates knew exactly what happened.
    She told them of her pregnancy & that she was finding it hard to get the money to go to England.
    One of them described it as a ' wee baby' in court.
    Seemed to me that they were judging her & were making sure she paid.


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