Electric Ireland - Free Nest Heating Thermostat + Installation

Galego · 02-04-2016 11:24AM

toby2111 wrote: »

I suppose that's the downside of these new tech things, there's always the occasional glitch. So if the Nest does start playing up, is there a way to manually operate the heating instead of it? Is there an on/off switch where that heat link goes?

Tado can control the boiler manually from the thermostat should internet conncetion fail. When there is no internet the thermostat comminucates locally with the relay/boiler just like any standard thermostat.

munsterbear · 02-04-2016 11:47AM

corks finest wrote:

I have 2 zones,using one climote control unit,works a treat

Which one did you go for?

Do you still need to turn 2nd thermostat on/off?

bk · 02-04-2016 12:46PM

toby2111 wrote: »

I wouldn't feel confident installing one of them so it'd cost me to get an electrician. So that's my point - Do I buy one, pay an electrician, total cost over €200. Or go with Electric Ireland, total cost will be the same, €200 or so. Which is the better device? Your one or a Nest?

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. If they both cost the same, then I'd go for the Nest as it looks nicer and supports some fancier features (such as integration with Nest protect smoke alarms and possibly a rumoured Nest alarm system in future).

One thing to keep in mind, Nest is owned by Google now and personally I'm not overally impressed with their privacy policies.

corks finest · 03-04-2016 10:47AM

noel100 wrote: »

You meant to override the unit on the wall by holding for 10 seconds. Didn't work for me. My experience with nest was disappointing... Concept is good but needs to be full proof.

Have a gander at the climote,similar, but I have had no issues

toby2111 · 03-04-2016 10:52AM

Another quick question for Nest owners - does it tell you how long your boiler is actually on each day ie 3 hours on a Monday, 4 hours on a Tuesday, 4 & half hours on a Sunday etc. I'm only used to timer based controls.

ted1 · 03-04-2016 11:14AM

toby2111 wrote: »

Another quick question for Nest owners - does it tell you how long your boiler is actually on each day ie 3 hours on a Monday, 4 hours on a Tuesday, 4 & half hours on a Sunday etc. I'm only used to timer based controls.

It gives you that detail the following day. At the end of each month it gives you a monthly report.
Personally the report could be better

toby2111 · 03-04-2016 11:28AM

Cheers ted1. And have you found that you're using less oil/gas? Nest say there's potential fuel savings but I'd like to hear what users think.

ted1 · 03-04-2016 11:58AM

toby2111 wrote: »

Cheers ted1. And have you found that you're using less oil/gas? Nest say there's potential fuel savings but I'd like to hear what users think.

Definitely using less when we are out if the house as it turns off. The old programmable stat used to five in regardless if we were out if the house or not.

PeterDuggan · 03-04-2016 01:02PM

toby2111 wrote: »

Have you found that you're using less oil/gas?

Have been researching this myself recently. The (hundreds of) reviews on Amazon.co.uk are worth reading. Many people love it (I suspect cos it looks cool), some say it saves them money, many many speak of appallingly bad customer support from Nest. Several speak of Nest firing up the boiler in the middle of the night, or when they're out of the house, or when headlights pass the window!

On the other hand, several seemingly independent professional reports in the US do report savings. I suspect it has a lot to do with how efficiently you were managing your system before installing Nest. If you used to keep it at a fairly moderate temperature and turn it off when not needed and when leaving the house(!) then I doubt Nest is going to save you anything and could easily waste money. Many people speak of turning off the "learning" facility.

I'd be very concerned about the proprietary nature of the Nest and the company's "walled garden" ecosystem (Nest was developed by an ex-Apple director). You must subscribe to Nest's cloud servers (albeit for free at the moment but I don't see any guarantee that'll always stay so) to access your Nest. If you want to expand in the future, Nest security cameras, smoke detectors, etc will only work with the Nest thermostat. You must subscribe (and pay) to access your security video recordings.

The servers also can and do update the software on your Nest (via wifi). This happens without your knowledge and without your control and you cannot remove the updates. This has led to several bugs which Nest were slow (read weeks) to remedy.

There's no doubting it looks cool. And remote on/off is handy.

Just my 2c worth.

Oh and the Electric Ireland Nest deal is a complete rip-off of course.

toby2111 · 03-04-2016 02:32PM

Yeh, I'm not sure whether to get one or not. According to bonkers, I can save €200 per year by switching to Energia while the EI Nest plan will cost me €13 per year (though that doesn't include the €50 cashback they offer). I'd like to change my old 24 hour timer anyway so it's either switch to Energia and pay €150 to get a programmeable timer with no fancy bells & whistles ...... Or go with Electric Ireland Nest offer, pay a few extra euro in my bills per month for 2 years and get a top of the range thermostat /timer device (albeit with a few mixed reviews). My oil bills may also reduce by getting the Nest.
There's pro's and cons with both options.

Chardee MacDennis · 03-04-2016 07:38PM

PeterDuggan wrote: »

Have been researching this myself recently. The (hundreds of) reviews on Amazon.co.uk are worth reading. Many people love it (I suspect cos it looks cool), some say it saves them money, many many speak of appallingly bad customer support from Nest. Several speak of Nest firing up the boiler in the middle of the night, or when they're out of the house, or when headlights pass the window!

On the other hand, several seemingly independent professional reports in the US do report savings. I suspect it has a lot to do with how efficiently you were managing your system before installing Nest. If you used to keep it at a fairly moderate temperature and turn it off when not needed and when leaving the house(!) then I doubt Nest is going to save you anything and could easily waste money. Many people speak of turning off the "learning" facility.

I'd be very concerned about the proprietary nature of the Nest and the company's "walled garden" ecosystem (Nest was developed by an ex-Apple director). You must subscribe to Nest's cloud servers (albeit for free at the moment but I don't see any guarantee that'll always stay so) to access your Nest. If you want to expand in the future, Nest security cameras, smoke detectors, etc will only work with the Nest thermostat. You must subscribe (and pay) to access your security video recordings.

The servers also can and do update the software on your Nest (via wifi). This happens without your knowledge and without your control and you cannot remove the updates. This has led to several bugs which Nest were slow (read weeks) to remedy.

There's no doubting it looks cool. And remote on/off is handy.

Just my 2c worth.

Oh and the Electric Ireland Nest deal is a complete rip-off of course.

While I understand your points there are a few things I'd take issue with.

The main one being the 'walled garden' there is no such wall. Nest integrates with lots of different devices, I currently have it running through my home-assitant.io controller. It also has an open API.

There is no indication Nest would ever make you have to pay, and there is no alternative system where you don't connect through an online service whether it be ecobee, tado, nest, or climote.

With regards boilers starting up in the middle of the night, nest say they do this sporadically to kill off bacteria in your tank. Besides that, schedules can be tightly controlled.

Anyway, I'm happy with mine, I did a lot of research and the only smart thermo that is close (and prob better) is the ecobee but its not compatible in UK and Ireland. but i can understand the negative reviews I've seen.

PS my dealing with their support has been very good.

PeterDuggan · 04-04-2016 12:40AM

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

It has an open API.
There is no indication Nest would ever make you have to pay.
Boilers starting up in the middle of the night kill bacteria.

Glad to hear you're happy with it.
Yes I noticed there's an open API which is good to see but it's subject to control, monitoring, throttling, and even suspension by Nest.
Nest already charge for certain services and as I said there's no indication they won't make you pay for others.
I don't buy the bacteria excuse. People complain of waking up in a sweat to discover the heating has been running for hours in the middle of the night.

gabbo is coming · 04-04-2016 07:23AM

PeterDuggan wrote: »

Glad to hear you're happy with it.
Yes I noticed there's an open API which is good to see but it's subject to control, monitoring, throttling, and even suspension by Nest.
Nest already charge for certain services and as I said there's no indication they won't make you pay for others.
I don't buy the bacteria excuse. People complain of waking up in a sweat to discover the heating has been running for hours in the middle of the night.

I've had mine installed for a month (GFcH + water) and my parents have theirs for a week (ofch)

It's a thermostat you can also control on your phone

It has some smarts you can buy in to or disable; true radiant, anti-bacteria, auto schedule. I don't. The auto away geo fencing I do buy in to, it's a bit buggy but it's still 1.0

Does it make your house more comfortable; yes

Will it save you money; maybe small amounts

ted1 · 04-04-2016 09:02AM

PeterDuggan wrote: »

Glad to hear you're happy with it.
Yes I noticed there's an open API which is good to see but it's subject to control, monitoring, throttling, and even suspension by Nest.
Nest already charge for certain services and as I said there's no indication they won't make you pay for others.
I don't buy the bacteria excuse. People complain of waking up in a sweat to discover the heating has been running for hours in the middle of the night.

To be honest your talking rubbish, they can't suddenly charge for it.
I've had no experience of the heating coming on when it's not meant to, can you back up your claims and clarify whet generation Nest you are talking about.

noel100 · 04-04-2016 09:18AM

ted1 wrote: »

To be honest your talking rubbish, they can't suddenly charge for it.
I've had no experience of the heating coming on when it's not meant to, can you back up your claims and clarify whet generation Nest you are talking about.

I had a third generation nest. It was always coming on and staying on . I would have it set for 18degrees and it would be reading 24-27degrees and had to turn the trip switch off to reset it. Then it would work fine for a couple of hours or days and start again..
Contact support even filled a questionnaire. And they did not get back to me...

PeterDuggan · 04-04-2016 10:10AM

ted1 wrote: »

To be honest your talking rubbish, they can't suddenly charge for it.

No need to be rude. Hopefully they won't ever charge. But how do you know? That was my point. Nest already charge for certain services and as I said there's no assurance (that I've seen anyway) that they won't ever charge for others.

ted1 wrote: »

I've had no experience of the heating coming on when it's not meant to, can you back up your claims.

As I said, read the reviews on www.amazon.co.uk.

Chardee MacDennis · 04-04-2016 10:32AM

noel100 wrote: »

I had a third generation nest. It was always coming on and staying on . I would have it set for 18degrees and it would be reading 24-27degrees and had to turn the trip switch off to reset it. Then it would work fine for a couple of hours or days and start again..
Contact support even filled a questionnaire. And they did not get back to me...

there's a phone number to call. i got cut off on the phone to them and they called me back.

Chardee MacDennis · 04-04-2016 10:33AM

PeterDuggan wrote: »

No need to be rude. Hopefully they won't ever charge. But how do you know? That was my point. Nest already charge for certain services and as I said there's no assurance (that I've seen anyway) that they won't ever charge for others.

The Drop cam has been charged from Day 1. If you can't see the difference in the service being offered between the cam and the thermostat then you're being deliberately troublesome.

Whats to say boards, facebook, etc, etc wont start charging...

torrevieja · 04-04-2016 10:50AM

My heating heats up then knocks off and sometimes cones back on or I have to turn off and turn on again I have a separate switch for eater and one for heating would this be any good for me

bk · 04-04-2016 11:30AM

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

The Drop cam has been charged from Day 1. If you can't see the difference in the service being offered between the cam and the thermostat then you're being deliberately troublesome.

Actually from a technical perspective they are very similar.

Both require a hosted "cloud" based server to allow you to connect to the device in your home (both Nest and camera). This is because most home broadband connections use dynamic IP addresses and thus you need some sort of public broker (Google servers in the case of nest) to allow you to route the connection from your phone,etc. to the device in your home.

There is an obvious ongoing cost to running such servers and this is where Google could possibly charge a subscription in future.

Where they differ, is that video requires far more storage space to access recordings that are stored on a cloud server, so the greater need to charge then there is for Nest.

However nothing stopping Google from charging in future if they wanted to.

However this is also pretty much true of all wifi thermostats and pretty much any home automation device that you might access remotely (security alarms, Philips hue lights, etc.).

On the whole I'd say it is less likely that Google will start charging for it, then some other random small company that doesn't have Googles deep pockets.

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

Whats to say boards, facebook, etc, etc wont start charging...

Nothing at all. Though there is a logical difference. If one of the above starts charging, then it is quick and easy to move to a different free service that would obviously pop-up in it's place. It is much harder to move wifi thermostat when you have already invested hundreds of euros in. I know this is an issue I personally worry about when investing in home automation hardware.

BionicRasher · 04-04-2016 11:40AM

So I went with the Smartzone system (Istabai)
its worked great so far and was totally free.

Had one issue and I called support and they sorted it with me over the phone in 5 mins.
Is it saving me money on bills? maybe - will need to asses over a longer period
Is it easy to use? could be easier and takes a bit of getting used to but once you have it all set up its a breeze.
I will do a post on my thoughts at a later stage and link it here for referance.

any questions just ask

ted1 · 04-04-2016 11:45AM

PeterDuggan wrote: »

No need to be rude. Hopefully they won't ever charge. But how do you know? That was my point. Nest already charge for certain services and as I said there's no assurance (that I've seen anyway) that they won't ever charge for others.

As I said, read the reviews on www.amazon.co.uk.

They won't charge, as it's sold as having no subs and by charging would seriously change the purchase agreement and entitle people to refunds. The hardware needed to store video is substantially more than they need for NEST and isn't a comparison.

toby2111 · 04-04-2016 01:23PM

Read through some of the reviews on Amazon,in fairness they're mostly very positive,scores 4.8 out of 5 in total.Yes,theres a few negative ones which will happen with all electrical/tech things. I'm still sitting on the fence,unsure whether to get one or not.

MaceFace · 04-04-2016 04:52PM

I've been living with the Nest Thermostat for about 18 months now and the Nest Cam for maybe 8 months.

Firstly, on the Nest Thermostat...

All I can say is... it is fine.
Two years ago, it was excellent - being able to control your heating from anywhere in the world, and automatically keeping your home at a desired temperature.

Today, that's the minimum I would expect in an IoT device.
Energy Ireland have a solution they are at least trialing that allows users to control individual radiators which is a much more interesting solution. The problem I have with Nest is it only controls a single zone. Many people only have a single zone home, so you either turn the heating on for all your home, or off for all your home.

There are well publicized problems over at Nest as an organisation, and this may be impacting some of the negativity people are experiencing - buggy updates and unavailability.
However, they appear to be moving in the right direction, (kind of) opening the devices to third parties to allow you better control over your Nest device, but that doesn't get by the problem of better control over the different parts of the house.

Now, as to whether they would ever charge for the service, I think the simple answer is No. It's completely different than the Nest Cam as Google no doubt have to deal with ISPs who want to charge these big organisations more for the amount of bandwidth they are consuming. With Nest Thermostat, your talking about very tiny amounts of data, and the amount of data they store online is so small, that it is practically free.
This is a complete strawman though - the question is about the Nest Thermostat.
For the cost of the device - yes, I think it is worth the current cost. I think that in 2-3 years time, it may be seen as old fashioned!

PeterDuggan · 04-04-2016 07:17PM

toby2111 wrote: »

Yeh, I'm not sure whether to get one or not. According to bonkers, I can save €200 per year by switching to Energia while the EI Nest plan will cost me €13 per year (though that doesn't include the €50 cashback they offer). I'd like to change my old 24 hour timer anyway so it's either switch to Energia and pay €150 to get a programmeable timer with no fancy bells & whistles ...... Or go with Electric Ireland Nest offer, pay a few extra euro in my bills per month for 2 years and get a top of the range thermostat /timer device (albeit with a few mixed reviews). My oil bills may also reduce by getting the Nest.
There's pro's and cons with both options.

You could also go with the cheaper supplier and buy a Nest separately? That's probably what I'll do.

toby2111 · 04-04-2016 07:32PM

PeterDuggan wrote: »

You could also go with the cheaper supplier and buy a Nest separately? That's probably what I'll do.

How much is it to buy Nest seperately? I presume it would be about €80 to €100 to get am electrician to install it? Or would I need a plumber also?
My figures were a bit off. I did some rough calculations and the Energia deal will save me about €150 not €200 or so it said it would. So if it's cheaper than about €300 to buy nest seperately and pay for the install, I might do that.

bidiots · 04-04-2016 07:40PM

Isn;t there a deal with getting a boiler checked + nest?

ted1 · 04-04-2016 07:53PM

MaceFace wrote: »

Energy Ireland have a solution they are at least trialing that allows users to control individual radiators which is a much more interesting solution. The problem I have with Nest is it only controls a single zone.

However, they appear to be moving in the right direction, (kind of) opening the devices to third parties to allow you better control over your Nest device, but that doesn't get by the problem of better control over the different parts of the house

Controlling individual rads doesn't save money, firstly you need to power each actuator. Which costs money but more importantly unless you have very well insulated walls and doors You create drafts and use more energy heating through heat loss, that's the cold rooms taking the heat from the warmer areas.

toby2111 · 04-04-2016 07:54PM

bidiots wrote: »

Isn;t there a deal with getting a boiler checked + nest?

With electric ireland, it's free nest +stand+install +€50 switching bonus. Unless somebody else doing boiler check?

MaceFace · 04-04-2016 09:39PM

ted1 wrote: »

Controlling individual rads doesn't save money, firstly you need to power each actuator. Which costs money but more importantly unless you have very well insulated walls and doors You create drafts and use more energy heating through heat loss, that's the cold rooms taking the heat from the warmer areas.

I'm sorry but this is just nonsense.
Power an actuator? What's that, not even a watt?

Also your comment on drafts is also wrong. Don't try and claim that by turning off radiators in unused rooms that you won't save on your heating costs.

Electric Ireland - Free Nest Heating Thermostat + Installation

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