Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

fg1406 · 01-04-2016 01:39PM

Also as an aside there are no cleaners earning €800pw in the public sector (source: I have the pay scales in front of me). Most cleaning is in fact outsourced.

purplecow1977 · 01-04-2016 01:43PM

fg1406 wrote: »

Also as an aside there are no cleaners earning €800pw in the public sector (source: I have the pay scales in front of me). Most cleaning is in fact outsourced.

Outsourced to............private companies!

School secretaries are paid by their BOM and don't have any payment over the summer or pension benefits.

01-04-2016 01:49PM

Coat22 wrote: »

Loads do - but would have they the b*lls to text their manager as they get in from a night out and do it? And would their manager laugh it off and put it down as a sick day asking no questions?

Says more about your friends management skills.

niallo27 · 01-04-2016 02:12PM

I dont get the big support for nurses, a fair portion of them just sit around drinking tea all day and could not give a **** about their patients.

purplecow1977 · 01-04-2016 02:16PM

niallo27 wrote: »

I dont get the big support for nurses, a fair portion of them just sit around drinking tea all day and could not give a **** about their patients.

Haha happy April Fool's day to you too!

niallo27 · 01-04-2016 02:18PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Haha happy April Fool's day to you too!

Ah no seriously, this bull**** that nurses are untouchable and they are all perfect pisses me off. I have had some bad experiences lately and it made me pretty angry.

01-04-2016 02:49PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I assume not! I would hope not!

Plenty do in the private sector if their in with their manager.

I've done it in the past and as a manager I've signed off on it. I've no problem with people doing this occasionally (extremely rarely), its the ones who are always sick on the Friday before a bank holiday that I've a problem with.

Just depends if your personality as a manager.

purplecow1977 · 01-04-2016 03:35PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

Plenty do in the private sector if their in with their manager.

I've done it in the past and as a manager I've signed off on it. I've no problem with people doing this occasionally (extremely rarely), its the ones who are always sick on the Friday before a bank holiday that I've a problem with.

Just depends if your personality as a manager.

So it's not a public sector issue, as is made out to be case in this scenario.

I completely understand it happens across the board but I find it amusing when people suggest it's an isolated issue in a particular area.

tayto lover · 01-04-2016 06:50PM

niallo27 wrote: »

I dont get the big support for nurses, a fair portion of them just sit around drinking tea all day and could not give a **** about their patients.

Ha ha God one. I nearly fell for it until I remembered the day that's in it.:pac:

maryishere · 01-04-2016 08:52PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

I've done it in the past and as a manager I've signed off on it.

Does your manager know that you, as a manager, condone and sign off, without asking questions, the people under you who deliberately go out drinking to excess during the week and who text in the next day saying they cannot be arsed to come in to work?

If I was your manager / business owner you would have serious questions to answer.

Ha ha Good one. I fell for it, and I now remembered the day that's in it.

esforum · 01-04-2016 10:47PM

notjustsweet wrote: »

Way back when?? That's quite a jump considering I didn't give a set of dates.

I don't have any issue with their pay but I do have an issue with the "poor badly paid us" carry on when they only talk about weekly pay and ignore all the extras in the big cheque and the massive pay off at the end.
And yes they are well aware of my opinion.

Still no answer to the question, I assume then you can't backup your Statement regarding all these massive allowances you claim we get over and above what I stated?

esforum · 01-04-2016 10:52PM

PARlance wrote: »

If you want to earn as much as the CEO of Dell then there's nothing stopping you. Why don't you leave the force and go private?

Exactly! That's exactly my point. If you think the grass is greener, then climb the fence.

That's all that I have said time and time again.

Except I like my job and I am not begrudging any other worker their conditions. You are.

esforum · 01-04-2016 10:55PM

Ah I see Mary is now back once the arkward questions have safely been buried

Sadly absolutely nothing new to post, just the same lies, myths and prejudice.

esforum · 01-04-2016 11:02PM

maryishere wrote: »

Bear in mind someone posted earlier that average median wage in the private sector is 28,500 per year - for working - for those lucky enough to have work and not be let go.

The average pension of the 5 groups you mention -doctors,nurses,teachers, gardai + prison officers is more than that - for not working.

That was proven to be a complete and utter lie. But don't let that stop ya.

Good aul Mary, always willing to push a lie

esforum · 01-04-2016 11:06PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

I don't think the above are overpaid, in fact I think Gardaí starting pay is now too low. At the same time, besides the new Gardaí, I wouldn't say that the above are necessarily underpaid either. I believe there is a skewed vision from many here as to what private sector workers are earning, and that they make unrealistic comparisons to back up the notion of what they feel they deserve.

Someone a few pages back was making a comparison to the boss of Dell in Ireland, for example. A middle manager, you might have a point, but to compare a principal or sergeant to the head of a multi-billion euro organization is just a bit much.

I was pointing out that the top boys in the private sector earn more than the president of the USA as an example. He earns a lot lot more, does as important a job? Nope

The earnings in the private sector may start lower, but they get a hell of a lot higher

maryishere · 01-04-2016 11:30PM

esforum wrote: »

I was pointing out that the top boys in the private sector earn more than the president of the USA as an example.

lol. Not that long ago, in the overall scheme of things, there were more than a few of our public servants earning more than the president of the USA, now that you mention him! Even Bertie and Brian and the Central Bank Guys and the Regulator.
From Google, when you look it up the salary of the president of the USA" The most recent salary increase, to $400,000/year from $200,000/year, took effect when George W. Bush became President. "

Rumour has it that Obama looked at the land of his ancestors :rolleyes:, what the government and its employees were paying themselves here and he thought, **** lads, I'm as good as they are.

esforum wrote: »

The earnings in the private sector may start lower, but they get a hell of a lot higher

Very very very very few people in the private sector would earn more than the President of the USA.
And those that do no doubt have an amazing mix of extraordinary talent, very hard work, luck and dedication etc
If you set up a factory making widgets, put your house as personal security to do so, and employ hundreds or thousands, pay all the taxes and against all the odds make a go of it, then hats off to you and you deserve whatever you make. Thats the nature of capitalism.

njs030 · 01-04-2016 11:45PM

esforum wrote: »

Still no answer to the question, I assume then you can't backup your Statement regarding all these massive allowances you claim we get over and above what I stated?

You do realise I don't have to answer anything? I'm not going to announce on a public forum what someone else earns no matter how many times you demand it.

Though if you can quote where I said massive allowances please?

lawlolawl · 02-04-2016 12:17AM

maryishere wrote: »

Very very very very few people in the private sector would earn more than the President of the USA.
And those that do no doubt have an amazing mix of extraordinary talent, very hard work, luck and dedication etc

Or they just worked in the banks that brought our country to the brink and decided their own salaries and bonuses along with those of their cronies whilst they knew that the end was drawing near.

Stop portraying the private sector as some universally noble undertaking where it is solely hard work and gumption that lets the cream rise to the top. Cronyism and general dodgyness is much more prevalent in the sector because you can just turn around and say "whoops, sorry, the company has gone bust and we can't afford to pay any bills, wages, taxes or creditors but we have paid the boards of directors all that they are owed. We are sort of essential to the continued existence of the state at this stage because of the magnitude of money involved in our shady deals so is there any chance you Government types could fix any of our remaining boo-boos? K, THNX, BYE XOXOXOXO".

gctest50 · 02-04-2016 12:39AM

lawlolawl wrote: »

Or they just worked in the banks that brought our country to the brink and decided their own salaries and bonuses along with those of their cronies whilst they knew that the end was drawing near.
........................

no Irish Water, no Eircodes ?

not much value out of that rant

lawlolawl · 02-04-2016 12:55AM

gctest50 wrote: »

no Irish Water, no Eircodes ?

not much value out of that rant

I agree with Irish Water and Eircodes were/are a good idea but were just completely ignored by everyone for some bizarre reason.

PARlance · 02-04-2016 01:06AM

esforum wrote: »

Exactly! That's exactly my point. If you think the grass is greener, then climb the fence.

That's all that I have said time and time again.

Except I like my job and I am not begrudging any other worker their conditions. You are.

No, I'm not a begrudger. My definition for that is Envy or Resent.

I'm concerned about the overspending of public funds on the public sector. I'm concerned about people who think they are some right to have their earnings restored to 2006 levels and seem obvious to the fact that while the country is still a mess. I'm concerned about Unions for these people screwing the Country over yet again by getting pay rises over and above the norm.

I've earned far more in the Private sector than I would have earned in the Public. Money aside, becoming a Garda, Nurse or Teacher would not appeal to me in the slightest. That is not an insult, those jobs are just not for me. I think the majority of them do a great job but I also think in general, they're overpaid and there are serious issues with accountability.

So going back to begrudgery, being Envy or Resent: I don't envy your job or I don't resent you for getting paid, but I do think you get paid (as in the overall package: pay, allowances, pension) too much for what you do. Now, you may not like that but that's my opinion.

And I would like to clarify that I don't think the major problem with the Public Sector is front line staff. The main waste and main problems comes from behind them. I do think it's a shame that the front line gets the brunt of it. We would be better focusing elsewhere within the Public Sector spend.

02-04-2016 01:15AM

esforum wrote: »

I was pointing out that the top boys in the private sector earn more than the president of the USA as an example. He earns a lot lot more, does as important a job? Nope

The earnings in the private sector may start lower, but they get a hell of a lot higher

...A hell of a lot higher for a handful of people. Not to mention there are also a handful in the public sector whose overall packages would make most CEOs blush.

You're not comparing like with like. You're comparing the average public sector worker with the wealthiest people on the planet.

Oh and also a former president of the US can earn around 500k per speaking engagement. At what point does the salary become more important than the job? Should the POTUS be paid a billion dollars a year because it's (arguably) the most important job in the world? I don't think so. I think 400k is more than enough.

tayto lover · 02-04-2016 10:04AM

Begrudgery def -- noun

(Irish, informal) resentment of any person who has achieved success or wealth.

esforum · 02-04-2016 10:15AM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

...A hell of a lot higher for a handful of people. Not to mention there are also a handful in the public sector whose overall packages would make most CEOs blush.

You're not comparing like with like. You're comparing the average public sector worker with the wealthiest people on the planet.

Oh and also a former president of the US can earn around 500k per speaking engagement. At what point does the salary become more important than the job? Should the POTUS be paid a billion dollars a year because it's (arguably) the most important job in the world? I don't think so. I think 400k is more than enough.

OK well for one, I compared probable the highest public sector worker on the planet, so that's bull**** for starters

Second, so according to you he will earn MORE when he leaves public office and goes private? Good argument.

Your all laughable, bemoaning Garda pay but then can't back up the allegations, quoting fictional earnings and trying to dismiss the fact that there's far more to be earned privately as that's the minority but then using the few high earning public sector staff to condemn us all.

FYI. A nurse is worth ten if you lot. I'm modest, I'm only worth 5

02-04-2016 11:42AM

esforum wrote: »

OK well for one, I compared probable the highest public sector worker on the planet, so that's bull**** for starters

Second, so according to you he will earn MORE when he leaves public office and goes private? Good argument.

Your all laughable, bemoaning Garda pay but then can't back up the allegations, quoting fictional earnings and trying to dismiss the fact that there's far more to be earned privately as that's the minority but then using the few high earning public sector staff to condemn us all.

FYI. A nurse is worth ten if you lot. I'm modest, I'm only worth 5

I sincerely hope you are not representative of the PS, that's all I can say. A tantrum is all this is. I would expect better of a 6 year old!

esforum · 02-04-2016 11:49AM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

I sincerely hope you are not representative of the PS, that's all I can say. A tantrum is all this is. I would expect better of a 6 year old!

No, I don't represent the private sector

thomasdylan · 02-04-2016 11:54AM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Living out allowance was what I was referring to which would bring you above 40k in your second year.

Perhaps I should have been more specific in my references.
The first year is brutally paid however you are over 40k very quickly granted you still have to survive on 30k for a year. It takes teachers years to earn 31k never mind 40k which a doctor can earn after a year.

The payscale is what this whole debate is surrounding. You got your knickers in a knot because someone had the audacity to claim teachers and doctors should be paid similarly at the start of their careers. Obviously doctors will earn substantially more later on and I have no issue with this and if you want to attract highly intelligent people into teaching you need a carrot of some sort as the job provides little in the way of promotion.

I will be mindful of my use of the word allowance.

30k is not brutal pay nor something you "have to survive on". It's about what a newly qualified doctor, teacher, physio, OT will make in a full time job. It's fair. Newly qualified nurses start on around 23k now that's brutal pay for that job.

As has been said, the living out allowance for doctors is gone. I get 600e of tax back a year, that's my allowance. That covers my yearly registration with the medical council (600e) whom I have to pay to be registered to work as a doctor. We also have had to do compulsory exams to progress (and go up the pay scale) which cost between 680 and 1200. The hse will cover e450 and I pay the balance. It's a bit of a joke really to have someone make up imaginary allowances of 10k and I think that's understandably annoyed me and the other poster. Overtime (paid at time and a quarter,and you'll be lucky if you get paid all your OT) and call shifts are not an allowance. Being paid for having to work 20-30 extra hours a week on top of a 40 hour week is not an allowance.

02-04-2016 11:58AM

esforum wrote: »

No, I don't represent the private sector

The Gardai, ladies and gentlemen.

Mardy Bum · 02-04-2016 12:15PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

30k is not brutal pay nor something you "have to survive on". It's about what a newly qualified doctor, teacher, physio, OT will make in a full time job. It's fair. Newly qualified nurses start on around 23k now that's brutal pay for that job.

As has been said, the living out allowance for doctors is gone. I get 600e of tax back a year, that's my allowance. That covers my yearly registration with the medical council (600e) whom I have to pay to be registered to work as a doctor. We also have had to do compulsory exams to progress (and go up the pay scale) which cost between 680 and 1200. The hse will cover e450 and I pay the balance. It's a bit of a joke really to have someone make up imaginary allowances of 10k and I think that's understandably annoyed me and the other poster. Overtime (paid at time and a quarter,and you'll be lucky if you get paid all your OT) and call shifts are not an allowance. Being paid for having to work 20-30 extra hours a week on top of a 40 hour week is not an allowance.

Doctors are on 39k on point 2 of their scale. As in after their first year. It is a considerable jump fully deserved might I add.
The issue with teaching is that teachers do not start on 30k as they do not get full hours never mind overtime. Most would be lucky to pocket 15k.

Doctors receive excellent renumeration later on in their careers and have staggering potential earnings (take a look at the tax defaulters list every year) in comparison to a profession that has one opportunity of promotion within it which is worth 5k (Year Head).

The issue is that if you really value education (not just some "oh ye I care about education - my own that is, now I'm a doctor") and are also aware of the limited promotion and unflattering potential earnings, how do you attract really exemplary people into it?

It is all very straight forward labour economics.

maudgonner · 02-04-2016 12:40PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Begrudgery def -- noun

(Irish, informal) resentment of any person who has achieved success or wealth.

That's just a lazy cop-out.

When something is paid for from public funds, the public has the right to ask questions as to whether it is justified. Doing so does not mean that we're jealous or begrudging.

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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