Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

medicine12345 · 30-03-2016 09:39PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Trainees are on 30000 qualified doctors are not.

what are you talking about? It is the qualified doctors that are on that, when the term 'junior' is used, it just means the ones that aren't consultants (which is the vast majority of doctors). Obviously medical students don't get paid anything

KatW4 · 30-03-2016 09:45PM

liam7831 wrote:

I never believe people when they say teaching is a vocation not a job. What a load of crap, people are attracted to the long holidays and never working weekends, not teaching little Johnny to count to five.

I love teaching the children their numbers, how to read and write and all about the world. It's the best feeling in the world to see them learn something new and become inquisitive about the world. The weekends and summer holidays are a bonus but a lot of teachers do have other jobs outside of teaching like grinds, July provision and teaching English.

mynamejeff · 30-03-2016 09:52PM

liam7831 wrote: »

I never believe people when they say teaching is a vocation not a job. What a load of crap, people are attracted to the long holidays and never working weekends, not teaching little Johnny to count to five.

Thats a fairly ignorant thing to say liam.

Then again it might be an opinion formed from a career spend giving the gift of reading and writing to young people.

Or something you over heard in the bookies

mulbot · 30-03-2016 09:55PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

Thats a fairly ignorant thing to say liam.

Then again it might be an opinion formed from a career spend giving the gift of reading and writing to young people.

Or something you over heard in the bookies

Liam could be a teacher for all you know, failing to see how mentioning the "bookies" has got anything to do with his opinion

Icaras · 30-03-2016 09:57PM

KatW4 wrote: »

The weekends and summer holidays are a bonus but a lot of teachers do have other jobs outside of teaching like grinds, July provision and teaching English.

But 31k starting rate is not good enough?

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 10:01PM

liam7831 wrote: »

I never believe people when they say teaching is a vocation not a job. What a load of crap, people are attracted to the long holidays and never working weekends, not teaching little Johnny to count to five.

I disagree.
A vocation can be defined as "a strong feeling of suitability for a particular career or occupation", or "a person's employment or main occupation, especially regarded as worthy and requiring dedication".

That's exactly what teaching is for me. I can't imagine what else I would work it were it not for primary teaching.

I must admit, the holidays and weekends off are perks. Although, I feel I must also admit to spending an hour or 2 most Sundays to prepare for the following week. I've also been known to bring home copies on a Friday evening - they don't correct themselves you know! I feel dismayed when people write scornful remarks about our holidays. It adds nothing to a real and mature debate.

I think your latter comment about poor Johnny is ill-informed and probably ignorant of the majority of teachers. It certainly underestimates the interest and dedication most teachers have towards the children they teach. Teaching a young boy or girl to read, write, develop social skills, learn Gaeilge, nursery rhymes, songs, etc etc is actually very rewarding (and extremely challenging at times believe it or not!) but worthwhile.

The holidays are definitely a perk. Were they to change dramatically I can't promise I would remain in teaching; not for any other reason other than I'd probably be burned out. I deserve my days off. Some days can be unbelievably draining mentally, physically, emotionally. Without well-deserved rest, I wouldn't last! (I'm not complaining, I'm thankful for and appreciative of my holidays!)

Icaras wrote: »

But 31k starting rate is not good enough?

This is a relatively old article published in 2014, but 31k is still less than the 'average'. I don't think a 4 year trained teacher should earn less than this, do you? Also, if you look at the list of top 10 companies to work for - I don't see 'Department of Education' listed...... do you?

mulbot · 30-03-2016 10:08PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I disagree.
A vocation can be defined as "a strong feeling of suitability for a particular career or occupation", or "a person's employment or main occupation, especially regarded as worthy and requiring dedication".

That's exactly what teaching is for me. I can't imagine what else I would work it were it not for primary teaching.

I must admit, the holidays and weekends off are perks. Although, I feel I must also admit to spending an hour or 2 most Sundays to prepare for the following week. I've also been known to bring home copies on a Friday evening - they don't correct themselves you know! I feel dismayed when people write scornful remarks about our holidays. It adds nothing to a real and mature debate.

I think your latter comment about poor Johnny is ill-informed and probably ignorant of the majority of teachers. It certainly underestimates the interest and dedication most teachers have towards the children they teach. Teaching a young boy or girl to read, write, develop social skills, learn Gaeilge, nursery rhymes, songs, etc etc is actually very rewarding (and extremely challenging at times believe it or not!) but worthwhile.

The holidays are definitely a perk. Were they to change dramatically I can't promise I would remain in teaching; not for any other reason other than I'd probably be burned out. I deserve my days off. Some days can be unbelievably draining mentally, physically, emotionally. Without well-deserved rest, I wouldn't last! (I'm not complaining, I'm thankful for and appreciative of my holidays!)

Many many other careers share these attributes,and more,yet most people in these positions only get 21 days off in a year to "recover",

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 10:10PM

mulbot wrote: »

Many many other careers share these attributes,and more,yet most people in these positions only get 21 days off in a year to "recover",

You'll have no problem listing about 5 of these careers then?

Of course, other careers are not as fortunate in that regard, but may be in receipt of other perks.

I don't receive all inclusive Christmas parties, or annual bonuses either but I don't begrudge any worker or career that does enjoy such a perk.

thomasdylan · 30-03-2016 10:12PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

You'll have no problem listing about 5 of these careers then?

Of course, other careers are not as fortunate in that regard, but may be in receipt of other perks.

I don't receive all inclusive Christmas parties, or annual bonuses either but I don't begrudge any worker or career that does enjoy such a perk.

I imagine nurses, doctors, gardai just from the public sector alone.

doireannod · 30-03-2016 10:16PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

I disagree.
A vocation can be defined as "a strong feeling of suitability for a particular career or occupation", or "a person's employment or main occupation, especially regarded as worthy and requiring dedication".

That's exactly what teaching is for me. I can't imagine what else I would work it were it not for primary teaching.

I must admit, the holidays and weekends off are perks. Although, I feel I must also admit to spending an hour or 2 most Sundays to prepare for the following week. I've also been known to bring home copies on a Friday evening - they don't correct themselves you know! I feel dismayed when people write scornful remarks about our holidays. It adds nothing to a real and mature debate.

I think your latter comment about poor Johnny is ill-informed and probably ignorant of the majority of teachers. It certainly underestimates the interest and dedication most teachers have towards the children they teach. Teaching a young boy or girl to read, write, develop social skills, learn Gaeilge, nursery rhymes, songs, etc etc is actually very rewarding (and extremely challenging at times believe it or not!) but worthwhile.

The holidays are definitely a perk. Were they to change dramatically I can't promise I would remain in teaching; not for any other reason other than I'd probably be burned out. I deserve my days off. Some days can be unbelievably draining mentally, physically, emotionally. Without well-deserved rest, I wouldn't last! (I'm not complaining, I'm thankful for and appreciative of my holidays!)

This is a relatively old article published in 2014, but 31k is still less than the 'average'. I don't think a 4 year trained teacher should earn less than this, do you? Also, if you look at the list of top 10 companies to work for - I don't see 'Department of Education' listed...... do you?

Try doing a 24 hour shift in the Emergency Department. With only 8 hours to "recover". Then talk about being emotionally and physically exhausted

doireannod · 30-03-2016 10:19PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

You'll have no problem listing about 5 of these careers then?

Of course, other careers are not as fortunate in that regard, but may be in receipt of other perks.

I don't receive all inclusive Christmas parties, or annual bonuses either but I don't begrudge any worker or career that does enjoy such a perk.

Doctors and nurses. And, no, we don't get bonuses, Christmas parties or "allowances"

mulbot · 30-03-2016 10:21PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

You'll have no problem listing about 5 of these careers then?

Of course, other careers are not as fortunate in that regard, but may be in receipt of other perks.

I don't receive all inclusive Christmas parties, or annual bonuses either but I don't begrudge any worker or career that does enjoy such a perk.

Maybe Nurses,Doctors,social care workers(they get a few days more than 21 i think),People in management,consultants, would that do to answer?

Do you not partake in the teacher conferences that provide all inclusive dinners etc,Mount Wolsley in Tullow hosts a lot of them

thomasdylan · 30-03-2016 10:26PM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Trainees are on 30000 qualified doctors are not.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. What on earth is a trainee doctor? A junior doctor is anyone not a consultant from an intern up to an SpR 10-15 years out of college. Medical students don't get paid for rotations (rightly so). Medicine is a training career, you do exams and research and stay on top of new drugs and protocols the whole time, getting more responsibility as you go.

You're in a bubble if you think a teacher with a full time job is hard done by and you'd be shocked to know how much a nurse makes (they should definitely be better paid). Of the 'vocational' jobs why are teachers the ones who seem to be either going on or threatening strike the most?

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 10:27PM

mulbot wrote: »

Maybe Nurses,Doctors,social care workers(they get a few days more than 21 i think),People in management,consultants, would that do to answer?

Do you not partake in the teacher conferences that provide all inclusive dinners etc,Mount Wolsley in Tullow hosts a lot of them

Can't say that I do, but I have been to Mount Wolesley with a voucher I won. It was really lovely

I have huge admiration for doctors, nurses, those in emergency departments and didn't intend on offending anyone working in those professions doireann. I was simply defending my own profession.

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 10:30PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. What on earth is a trainee doctor? A junior doctor is anyone not a consultant from an intern up to an SpR 10-15 years out of college. Medical students don't get paid for rotations (rightly so). Medicine is a training career, you do exams and research and stay on top of new drugs and protocols the whole time, getting more responsibility as you go.

You're in a bubble if you think a teacher with a full time job is hard done by and you'd be shocked to know how much a nurse makes (they should definitely be better paid). Of the 'vocational' jobs why are teachers the ones who seem to be either going on or threatening strike the most?

Strike is generally the last form of industrial action to be utilised.

The stark reality is that many newly qualified teachers (I say newly, I could mean anyone out of college for 4,5,6 years!) do not have a full time job, guaranteed salary or anything else. Many have emigrated due to lack of employment and security in Ireland.

mulbot · 30-03-2016 10:33PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Can't say that I do, but I have been to Mount Wolesley with a voucher I won. It was really lovely

I have huge admiration for doctors, nurses, those in emergency departments and didn't intend on offending anyone working in those professions doireann. I was simply defending my own profession.

Pity you missed out,the last one there had over 300 teachers getting their free or all inclusive Partyconference-

So these other professions can handle the huge workloads with minimum holidays,yet a teacher will have to quit from exhaustion if they received the same holiday time,!!!!

doireannod · 30-03-2016 10:33PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Can't say that I do, but I have been to Mount Wolesley with a voucher I won. It was really lovely

I have huge admiration for doctors, nurses, those in emergency departments and didn't intend on offending anyone working in those professions doireann. I was simply defending my own profession.

Fair point. Apologies.

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 10:38PM

mulbot wrote: »

Pity you missed out,the last one there had over 300 teachers getting their free or all inclusive Partyconference-

So these other professions can handle the huge workloads with minimum holidays,yet a teacher will have to quit from exhaustion if they received the same holiday time,!!!!

You're not really being fair though. There's no comparison between the 2 and I detect jealousy in your post. I have already stated I have absolute admiration for nurses, doctors, fire department staff, gardaí etc and to be quite honest, I could not do the job they do. I'd be rubbish at it anyway. However, they may feel similarly about the 30 6th class I teach each day and I'm happy for us all to stick with what we're good at

I'm aware of the annual conferences alright, but their 'all inclusive' nature is deducted from the subscriptions that all union members pay anyway so I'm not entirely sure what the issue is?

Edward Hopper · 30-03-2016 10:42PM

Dip in and our of this thread, find it disappointing there's still this ongoing debate with people who work in different areas of public sector, about who is hardest done by and trivialising aspects of others jobs in the public sector.

There are enough posters here hell bent on doing down public sector workers without us turning on each other. I have huge respect for any one working in the public sector these last few years whatever branch they work. Ah well. I'll probably see the same thing again in another 20 pages time. All the best.

KatW4 · 30-03-2016 10:43PM

Icaras wrote:

But 31k starting rate is not good enough?

You've obviously not read the whole thread where I stated that it is a brilliant wage. My problem is not with the wages but with the lack of permanent jobs.

mulbot · 30-03-2016 10:44PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

You're not really being fair though. There's no comparison between the 2 and I detect jealousy in your post. I have already stated I have absolute admiration for nurses, doctors, fire department staff, gardaí etc and to be quite honest, I could not do the job they do. I'd be rubbish at it anyway. However, they may feel similarly about the 30 6th class I teach each day and I'm happy for us all to stick with what we're good at

I'm aware of the annual conferences alright, but their 'all inclusive' nature is deducted from the subscriptions that all union members pay anyway so I'm not entirely sure what the issue is?

You couldn't be more wrong if you think you detect jealousy-this is a favourite defense of most teachers I know when challenged about this topic-. My point is asking how can a teacher say they would burn out and have to quit their job if they didn't receive the holidays they do now,when other equally and greater challenged professions can continue it with minimum holidays!

doireannod · 30-03-2016 10:44PM

Edward Hopper wrote: »

Dip in and our of this thread, find it disappointing there's still this ongoing debate with people who work in different areas of public sector, about who is hardest done by and trivialising aspects of others jobs in the public sector.

There are enough posters here hell bent on doing down public sector workers without us turning on each other. I have huge respect for any one working in the public sector these last few years whatever branch they work. Ah well. I'll probably see the same thing again in another 20 pages time. All the best.

Kind of beginning to think the same way. Still have a bee in my bonnet about the "allowances" remark. But will try to do like you and move on!

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 10:45PM

doireannod wrote: »

Kind of beginning to think the same way. Still have a bee in my bonnet about the "allowances" remark. But will try to do like you and move on!

What was said about allowances?

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 10:47PM

mulbot wrote: »

You couldn't be more wrong if you think you detect jealousy-this is a favourite defense of most teachers I know when challenged about this topic-. My point is asking how can a teacher say they would burn out and have to quit their job if they didn't receive the holidays they do now,when other equally and greater challenged professions can continue it with minimum holidays!

Well, maybe I wouldn't burn out but I certainly feel that way towards end of terms though! Don't worry, I'll be ready to rock come next Monday!

doireannod · 30-03-2016 10:48PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

What was said about allowances?

Another teacher said that a doctor's basic starting pay is 30k but most doctors earn >40k per annum due to "allowances". Really have no idea what he/she is talking about!

mulbot · 30-03-2016 10:50PM

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Well, maybe I wouldn't burn out but I certainly feel that way towards end of terms though! Don't worry, I'll be ready to rock come next Monday!

Really? After only two days to recover at the weekend:P:)

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 10:53PM

doireannod wrote: »

Another teacher said that a doctor's basic starting pay is 30k but most doctors earn >40k per annum due to "allowances". Really have no idea what he/she is talking about!

When we stop criticising our fellow public sector workers, it will be a fine day! We all get enough of that as it is! Doctors save lives! I'm happy to pay them adequately!

maudgonner · 30-03-2016 11:01PM

Edward Hopper wrote: »

Dip in and our of this thread, find it disappointing there's still this ongoing debate with people who work in different areas of public sector, about who is hardest done by and trivialising aspects of others jobs in the public sector.

There are enough posters here hell bent on doing down public sector workers without us turning on each other. I have huge respect for any one working in the public sector these last few years whatever branch they work. Ah well. I'll probably see the same thing again in another 20 pages time. All the best.

I have to say, I'm baffled by this post. The public sector is huge and so varied, why shouldn't people within it say that some are better treated than others. From reading through this thread, people in the private sector don't seem to be saying that all public sector employees are overpaid?

Why shouldn't soldiers, who are apparently really badly paid and have horrible conditions a lot of the time, be fed up that teachers get long holidays. Or why shouldn't social workers be fed up that senior civil servants get huge salaries.

I genuinely don't understand why it would be 'us against the world' for all public sector employees when some get a really raw deal and some have been lucky enough to win good contracts. Would low-paid public sector employees not have far more reason to have solidarity with low-paid workers in the private sector?

PARlance · 30-03-2016 11:21PM

maudgonner wrote: »

I have to say, I'm baffled by this post. The public sector is huge and so varied, why shouldn't people within it say that some are better treated than others. From reading through this thread, people in the private sector don't seem to be saying that all public sector employees are overpaid?

Why shouldn't soldiers, who are apparently really badly paid and have horrible conditions a lot of the time, be fed up that teachers get long holidays. Or why shouldn't social workers be fed up that senior civil servants get huge salaries.

I genuinely don't understand why it would be 'us against the world' for all public sector employees when some get a really raw deal and some have been lucky enough to win good contracts. Would low-paid public sector employees not have far more reason to have solidarity with low-paid workers in the private sector?

The herd mentality exists amongst a lot of them. And now the herd wants to be fattened again, so it's best to stick together. That herd is still obese imo, despite its recent diet. More of it should have been culled when we had the chance.

As long as they stick together, they can hold the country to ransom again and again.

purplecow1977 · 30-03-2016 11:23PM

PARlance wrote: »

The herd mentality exists amongst a lot of them. And now the herd wants to be fattened again, so it's best to stick together. That herd is still obese imo, despite its recent diet. More of it should have been culled when we had the chance.

As long as they stick together, they can hold the country to ransom again and again.

Hugely unfair & incorrect.

This appears to be one of those troll comments without any substance; a comment intended merely to flame conversation without adding anything to the actual discussion.

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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