Batman v Superman spoilers from post 2434

Mickeroo · 30-03-2016 12:44pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Anyone want to tell me what was so "memorable" about the score for 'The Avengers"? Or 'Ant-Man'? Or "Ironman"? Or "Thor"? Or any other superhero film in the last 10 years, bar Nolan's Batman theme?

Because besides that, I can't recall a single bar out of any of them and I'll wager neither can a lot of others, even the people complaining.

Really not sure what to make of all the criticism over this picture. I haven't seen it yet and might not bother seeing it in the cinema. But an awful lot of the critiicism rings really hollow.

The Avengers one is very memorable, pops into my head all the time. The others not so much. Captain America is the only other one I can remember easily, they ditched it after the first film though. MoS had a great memorable theme too. Still not seen this, would be a shame if the MoS theme had been ditched?

Tazzimus · 30-03-2016 12:49pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

The Avengers one is very memorable, pops into my head all the time. The others not so much. Captain America is the only other one I can remember easily, they ditched it after the first film though. MoS had a great memorable theme too. Still not seen this, would be a shame if the MoS theme had been ditched?

Avengers one I can remember no problem, rest not so much.

I liked WW's theme in this, the drums sound mega in the cinema.

techdiver · 30-03-2016 12:50pm

Zillah wrote: »

I just want to say that I adored Wonder Woman's guitar riff theme song.

Teaser here.

I actually read somewhere that it was in fact an electric cello....

Mitch Connor · 30-03-2016 12:54pm

Avengers, the two captain America movies and guardians of the Galaxy are the only ones I would really rate. Looking back the iron man movies are weak, thor enjoyable enough but not brilliant. Ant man was good fun.

homerun_homer · 30-03-2016 2:07pm

When Superman comes back life how are they going to explain Clark Kent to everyone who knew him? Presumably he can't just walk back into the Daily Planet.

Penn · 30-03-2016 2:27pm

homerun_homer wrote: »

When Superman comes back life how are they going to explain Clark Kent to everyone who knew him? Presumably he can't just walk back into the Daily Planet.

I'd say at this stage there won't be another Superman solo film, so he'll just be in Superman mode from now on, whether in Justice League or appearances in other films.

homerun_homer · 30-03-2016 2:35pm

Penn wrote: »

I'd say at this stage there won't be another Superman solo film, so he'll just be in Superman mode from now on, whether in Justice League or appearances in other films.

Wow. If that is the case then they really did Clark Kent justice as a character. No wonder they rushed the Lois/Clark romance in one film.

Zillah · 30-03-2016 2:48pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Really not sure what to make of all the criticism over this picture.

The character motivations literally make no sense for almost everything everyone does, including the eponymous conflict. That's my only major criticism. I enjoyed it greatly none the less and I think Affleck did a great job.

Zillah · 30-03-2016 2:49pm

techdiver wrote: »

I actually read somewhere that it was in fact an electric cello....

Sweet.

BMMachine · 30-03-2016 3:35pm

Ben Gadot wrote: »

The Doomsday/Death of Superman arc isn't exactly a stellar piece of comic literature. My favourite aspect of the story was always the shock brutality of their first battle and the death/funeral.

After that the story isn't compelling to me and while it's obviously one of his most memorable stories, it's not one of his best.

So I think Snyder took the guts of the Doomsday arc that are actually good and did a good job. The design of Doomsday was poor admittedly.

the return and the rise of the supermen wasn't that good, but the foreshadowing with Doomsday and the battle itself is excellent - all butchered completely here by Mr. Snyder.

he did not take the guts - he took the bad guy, stuffed him to an already packed movie, made him look like a joke, gave him nothing and then killed him with kryptonite. He also made Lex Luthor make Doomsday which is COMPLETELY AGAINST THE POINT OF BOTH DOOMSDAY AND LEX as we see in funeral for a friend where Lex is hitting the coffin saying how it should have been him and other stuff about his relationship with Superman which is f**king pivotal to the core of both characters. but whatever, you kinda liked the film so ignore all that stuff - Snyder did a super job with Doomsday (and Lex!) and if you close your eyes and believe enough it becomes true!

BMMachine · 30-03-2016 3:48pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wcpO317Sq8

see that. thats not too big a deal in the Justice League animated series, but its still better and makes more sense than the piece of piss we were given.
thats just the fight, but Cadmus creates Doomsday as a deterrent to Superman and is unleashed by a rogue scientist in the midst of a series wide plot which focuses on whether the Governments of earth can trust the Justice League. Hes not as powerful as his comic equivalent, but serves a purpose in the series and that episode as further proof to the Justice League of what Cadmus is doing and also, later in that episode, Superman banishes him to the Phantom Zone which causes Batman to question the League itself and see where Cadmus is coming from.
As I said, this is a watered down Doomsday done right.

What he isn't is a thing made by Lex Luthor for no reason and then unleashed just because they needed someone for the trinity to fight against in a Zack Snyder explosion fest where no character has motivation for anything they do.

5star02707 · 30-03-2016 4:27pm

Hans Zimmer retires from superhero movies

http://comicbook.com/2016/03/30/hans-zimmer-retires-from-superhero-movies/

Ben Gadot · 30-03-2016 4:32pm

BMMachine wrote: »

the return and the rise of the supermen wasn't that good, but the foreshadowing with Doomsday and the battle itself is excellent - all butchered completely here by Mr. Snyder.

he did not take the guts - he took the bad guy, stuffed him to an already packed movie, made him look like a joke, gave him nothing and then killed him with kryptonite. He also made Lex Luthor make Doomsday which is COMPLETELY AGAINST THE POINT OF BOTH DOOMSDAY AND LEX as we see in funeral for a friend where Lex is hitting the coffin saying how it should have been him and other stuff about his relationship with Superman which is f**king pivotal to the core of both characters. but whatever, you kinda liked the film so ignore all that stuff - Snyder did a super job with Doomsday (and Lex!) and if you close your eyes and believe enough it becomes true!

Lex was dumb in this film you won't hear me disagreeing there. I'm on record repeatedly in this thread on that score.

I've followed this production from it's early stages and seemingly it was Joaquin Phoenix who they really wanted, but he knocked them back. How Snyder went from having that idea of Lex in his head to casting Jesse I'll never know.

He fcuked up there, no doubt about it. I know what he was trying to do but he over reached.

jungleman · 30-03-2016 4:44pm

Saw the film on Friday night, and I loved it. I really can't understand the negative reaction to it.

A lot of it has to be down to the critics hating Snyder. I wouldn't be a "fan", but I think he did a pretty good job. The action scenes were fantastic. Seriously. Relentless and brutal.

The critics were grumbling about too many story lines going on, but I have to disagree with that one. It's a big movie. It's where Batman meets Superman. It's where Wonder Woman is introduced. Of course there's going to be multiple story lines. If there weren't, there would be complaints that the characters were one dimensional and x-character was ignored. Being honest, if you have half a brain you can follow the different characters stories pretty easily.

The one part of the film I could criticize would be Jesse Eisenberg. I thought he was absolutely awful. I knew he would be terrible, and the film confirmed that he was a terrible choice for Lex Luthor. He was just a demented Mark Zuckerberg type character.

The dream sequences were fantastic. Especially the one where blood starts seeping out of the Wayne's crypt, and the Man_bat thing devours Bruce. That was completely unexpected and really special. The dream sequence where Superman unmasks Batman out in the desert really heavily hints that Darkseid will be the bad guy in the Justice League film too.

All in all, I thought it was a really solid film. I enjoyed it far more than any of the Marvel flicks. And Affleck as Batman was an inspired choice. He really f*cking nailed it.

maximoose · 30-03-2016 4:59pm

jungleman wrote: »

The action scenes were fantastic. Seriously. Relentless and brutal.

Batman's dream sequence - slow, awfully clunky fight scene IMO.
Superman is very one dimensional as far as action goes - punch someone far away, fly them into the air then punch them into the ground. Rinse/repeat.
Wonderwoman - Meh

Apart from Batman's scene when going to rescue Martha, I thought the action was pretty poor (can't remember who it was that was giving out about the amount of quick zoom in MoS, but I made a point of looking out for it this time and Christ it got annoying!)

Penn · 30-03-2016 5:06pm

jungleman wrote: »

The critics were grumbling about too many story lines going on, but I have to disagree with that one. It's a big movie. It's where Batman meets Superman. It's where Wonder Woman is introduced. Of course there's going to be multiple story lines. If there weren't, there would be complaints that the characters were one dimensional and x-character was ignored. Being honest, if you have half a brain you can follow the different characters stories pretty easily.

That's the thing though, those are the important storylines. But they're not given enough time to be properly developed because instead we have to watch Lois Lane trying to find out where the bullet came from (which isn't important because Lex already knows she's Superman's girlfriend and by the end of the film Lex could easily be arrested and jailed for creating Doomsday and blowing up the courthouse rather than for supplying weapons or whatever), and Wally's character being p*ssed at Superman and Bruce Wayne (Why Bruce Wayne? He helped save you, then pays you money every month, and he clearly didn't cause the crash). If the only reason we had to endure all the stuff with Wally was so Lex could sneak a bomb into the courthouse, how the f*ck did he manage to leave a jar of his p*ss at Holly Hunter's desk? And Superman being there in the courthouse when it exploded should have been enough to get Bruce mad again without Lex's note.

Hell, I'd also cut out the bit with the nuke and the General & President discussing it. The nuke made sense in Dark Knight Returns because it meant that Superman was weaker than normal when facing Batman. Makes no sense here other than to momentarily delay Superman. And I'd cut out Lois throwing the spear into the water, then drowning trying to get it back, then Superman going into the water, then Superman drowning trying to get it back.

Do all that and add in a few probably deleted scenes showing Lex's motivations, and I think you'd have one hell of a film.

maximoose · 30-03-2016 5:10pm

Penn wrote: »

And I'd cut out Lois throwing the spear into the water, then drowning trying to get it back.

Forgot about that. She's quite a bloody distance away from the fight against Doomsday, how/why does she realise she needs to retrieve the weapon at all? Made no sense.

Mitch Connor · 30-03-2016 5:15pm

maximoose wrote: »

Forgot about that. She's quite a bloody distance away from the fight against Doomsday, how/why does she realise she needs to retrieve the weapon at all? Made no sense.

Possibly figured it's why they lured doomsday there.

Also, on post above, the nuke wasn't used with superman the intended target, he would have been collateral damage, which they were upset over. The nuke was for doomsday.

Also, on Penns post, again : I don't think wally got the money. Lex says the letters were from him, so stands to reason he was intercepting the money.

Penn · 30-03-2016 5:17pm

maximoose wrote: »

Forgot about that. She's quite a bloody distance away from the fight against Doomsday, how/why does she realise she needs to retrieve the weapon at all? Made no sense.

I get the logic behind her throwing it away (she knows it can weaken Superman) and wanting to get it back (she figures out it can probably kill Doomsday), but f*ck me it was painful to sit through. It really just ended up feeling like it was just something for her to do. Batman should have gotten the spear, Superman takes it off him because he says Batman won't be able to pierce Doomsday with it, and sacrifices himself to do it. That would have really helped to cement their friendship directly.

shootermacg · 30-03-2016 5:24pm

How does BvS stack up against the new starwars?

I'd imagine starwars would resonate well with the people that didn't like BvS. simple story, plot holes out the wazoo, a fight stopped by a fissure in the ground, yeah that's awesome lmao. I actually fell asleep for 5 minutes mid movie until I got woken up for snoring.

Penn · 30-03-2016 5:26pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Possibly figured it's why they lured doomsday there.

Also, on post above, the nuke wasn't used with superman the intended target, he would have been collateral damage, which they were upset over. The nuke was for doomsday.

Also, on Penns post, again : I don't think wally got the money. Lex says the letters were from him, so stands to reason he was intercepting the money.

Sorry, I meant the nuke in the Dark Knight Returns comic weakens Superman (different circumstances). Here, all it did in terms of the story was take Superman out of the equation for about 2 minutes.

As for Wally, if Lex had been intercepting the money he would have had to have been doing it from day one. Which means he had to have known Bruce was Batman way back then. But even then, on Wally's wall where he was making some type of homemade device (which he never ended up using) he had all the newspaper clippings, it seemed he was also holding Bruce responsible (have to admit, I laughed when I saw one of the newspaper clippings and Wally had underlined his own name on one of them).

Again though, it's just all completely unnecessary fluff. At a 2.5hour running time, if stuff like that is given precedence over stuff like Lex's motivations or how he knows all this stuff, there's something seriously wrong.

shootermacg · 30-03-2016 5:27pm

Penn wrote: »

atman should have gotten the spear, Superman takes it off him because he says Batman won't be able to pierce Doomsday with it, and sacrifices himself to do it. That would have really helped to cement their friendship directly.

So you kind of think batman wouldn't have gotten near Doomsday, but knowing this, you still feel you need an explanation?

jungleman · 30-03-2016 5:28pm

Penn wrote: »

That's the thing though, those are the important storylines. But they're not given enough time to be properly developed because instead we have to watch Lois Lane trying to find out where the bullet came from (which isn't important because Lex already knows she's Superman's girlfriend and by the end of the film Lex could easily be arrested and jailed for creating Doomsday and blowing up the courthouse rather than for supplying weapons or whatever), and Wally's character being p*ssed at Superman and Bruce Wayne (Why Bruce Wayne? He helped save you, then pays you money every month, and he clearly didn't cause the crash). If the only reason we had to endure all the stuff with Wally was so Lex could sneak a bomb into the courthouse, how the f*ck did he manage to leave a jar of his p*ss at Holly Hunter's desk? And Superman being there in the courthouse when it exploded should have been enough to get Bruce mad again without Lex's note.

Hell, I'd also cut out the bit with the nuke and the General & President discussing it. The nuke made sense in Dark Knight Returns because it meant that Superman was weaker than normal when facing Batman. Makes no sense here other than to momentarily delay Superman. And I'd cut out Lois throwing the spear into the water, then drowning trying to get it back, then Superman going into the water, then Superman drowning trying to get it back.

Do all that and add in a few probably deleted scenes showing Lex's motivations, and I think you'd have one hell of a film.

Yeah the bullet storyline was a bit of a non-event. I don't think that added anything to the film in particular, really. Like, if it was a way to find more screen time for Lois, I think it could have been done way differently. If it was a way to legitimately get incriminating evidence against Luthor, I don't think they really needed to worry about that.

Totally agree about the deleted scenes. I heard that on the directors cut, the full film will be over three hours. That could make a huge difference to the film. It's actually a film that I can't wait to own, if that sounds weird. For me, it leaves a far more lingering impression than any Marvel film. With the deleted scenes, I think the general fluidity of the movie should definitely improve anyway.

jungleman · 30-03-2016 5:34pm

maximoose wrote: »

Batman's dream sequence - slow, awfully clunky fight scene IMO.
Superman is very one dimensional as far as action goes - punch someone far away, fly them into the air then punch them into the ground. Rinse/repeat.
Wonderwoman - Meh

Apart from Batman's scene when going to rescue Martha, I thought the action was pretty poor (can't remember who it was that was giving out about the amount of quick zoom in MoS, but I made a point of looking out for it this time and Christ it got annoying!)

I think that maybe the dream sequence fight scenes were deliberately like that though? Everyone has those dreams where they are trying to punch someone, but it's like your fist is moving in slow motion, and it's impossible to make a good connection with the other guys face. I thought it was intended that way! And that it was actually pretty clever!

The quick zoom didn't annoy me at all, to be honest. I didn't really notice it, or become too familiarised with it.

I keep going back to Marvel films here as reference, but I find their fight scenes to be far worse. Probably from bad use of CGI, and those Transformers-esque sound effects. The Avengers fight scenes get really grating after a while. I really enjoyed the fights between Batman and Superman. When Superman is recovering from the Kryptonite and Batman is just pounding his face, that was intense. The R edition should be even better.

IvySlayer · 30-03-2016 5:37pm

How did Superman know where to find Lois in the desert but not his mother?

jcsoulinger · 30-03-2016 5:48pm

I'm not a big comic book fan so I don't really care about how other incarnations of the characters match up to the ones we see in this movie, I'm not sure if this makes my opinions more or less valid tbh.

My expectations going in were very low and thankfully it surpassed those but only marginally, the real shame is that given the budget and the characters involved there was a real opportunity to make something great unfortunately they made a mess of it.

My main issues are:

1. Batman's motivation, The fillm didn't do enough to make me believe that Batman wanting to kill superman were the actions of a rational person, There should have been an allot more elaborate plot involving Lex playing off Batman against Superman.

2. I didn't go to the cinema to watch ads during the movie, WWs inclusion was blatantly this, If Louis lane was given her scenes with Bruce and she was dropped from the movie completely it would have worked better. IMO.

3. Don't kill superman and then bring him back in the final scene, #sof*****annoyin, His death was very well done though and had it been the actual ending of him it would have been one of the high points in the movie.

I think this will be the end of Super Hero movies for me for a while, Lost interest in The Avengers after the last movie too, which was worse than this imo.

I will watch the new X-men, always had a soft spot for them for some reason

shootermacg · 30-03-2016 6:09pm

IvySlayer wrote: »

How did Superman know where to find Lois in the desert but not his mother?

He knew where she was going, I though that was obvious seeing as they lived together.

EagererBeaver · 30-03-2016 6:32pm

shootermacg wrote: »

He knew where she was going, I though that was obvious seeing as they lived together.

123 Fake Street, Deserted Village, Africa?

Penn · 30-03-2016 6:43pm

shootermacg wrote: »

So you kind of think batman wouldn't have gotten near Doomsday, but knowing this, you still feel you need an explanation?

Not that it needs to be explained, but that Superman taking the spear from Batman knowing he's likely going to die humanises him further and makes a stronger connection between him and Batman, cementing their friendship and trust.

shootermacg · 30-03-2016 6:44pm

EagererBeaver wrote: »

123 Fake Street, Deserted Village, Africa?

OK if you really want to go there, how about the tracker, who was using that? I'm also sure its pretty easy to follow from a distance with super vision and the ability to fly.

Batman v Superman *spoilers from post 2434*

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Batman v Superman spoilers from post 2434