Batman v Superman *spoilers from post 2434*

rtron

OK here's my take on the murderer thing.This batman kept things real, it was kill or be killed.There was loads of points where batman could have died unless some of the aggressors were not taken out.
Since the world is now full of super beings Batman has to be more ruthless and change the rules.

5star02707

watched it last night after work, well i liked the movie but did not really enjoy it. i think the trailers showed a lot which negates the surprise factor.

Penn

Kevin Smith has a long and KevinSmith-y review up on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDsw86ATrQ0

Pretty much in line with what most people, even Batman/DC fans as big as Kevin Smith, are saying. It was too long and too convoluted with some really weird choices (Martha-Martha) and performances (particularly Eisenberg).

Utah

I enjoyed it.
Can see why it's being termed a set up for the JL.

What I want to know is, in the post apocalyptic scene with batman. Does he really to wear combats and a jacket and goggles over his batsuit! Don't get me wrong, it looked bad ass, but didn't get the point.

mickoneill31

I saw it last night. I think there was 30 minutes of a great film in there with 2 hours of average. I thought the scenes with Batman were brilliant but I didn't get behind Bruce Wayne and his motivations.

And there were a few WTF am I watching moments.

The dream sequence where Superman has soldiers. Maybe this is relevant from the comics but I don't read them so I was lost. What were they trying to tell us. Either Bruce Wayne is having prophetic dreams and has a new power or he's going a bit psycho.

The dream within a dream where the mystical guy was saying "Lois is the key woooooo"

"They're going to kill Martha." Is that how anybody would say "They're going to kill my mother".
Then just in case for the stupid we had a couple of flashbacks where we're told again that Bruce's mothers name was Martha.
Then Batman basically saying, your mothers name is the same as my mothers name. In that case I'll forget about my issues with you and we can be friends.

Aquaman, Flash and whoever the robot guy was. That's OK Bruce, I'll hang on here for the story to continue while you basically watch some YouTube videos.

Any action scenes with Superman in action by himself saving people basically showing him as somebody to be worshipped. And him seeming to be OK with that.

Not sure this one is a spoiler. The death of the Waynes. I've seen this several times now in most Batmans and they're always the same. Did we need to see this again. Yes it told us that Bruces mothers name was Martha but I would have gotten that from the tomb scene later on anyway.

For myself I think that the film was OK and I enjoyed the action scenes. But if the Justice League films come out and they're directed by Zack Snyder I will probably wait for the DVD.

Ben Gadot

It's surprising that Smith has given his honest opinion given he was championing the film before release, doing everything from praising Affleck's Batman to hosting CW specials on the DCEU.

He deserves credit for breaking ranks so to speak given his friendship with Ben. It's interesting really, I wouldn't be surprised if Affleck is quietly making power plays behind the scenes.

techdiver

I saw it again last night and it still holds up on a second view, if not better (like most Snyder movies). The first hour, apart form the opening sequence does drag a small bit, as they are trying to cram too much into a single story. It is poorly edited at times. It does set up some intriguing possible story arcs in future movies. I know it might have gone over a lot of peoples heads, but hopefully it pays off down the line. I think part of the problem is that the casual viewer wouldn't have know that it was The Flash that appeared to Bruce in the dream sequence. Most people would have never heard of Cyborg either. This is the reason that the direct DC/Warner are going is probably not the correct one. They should have released solo movies for all the characters before the Justice League. Ironically of the rest of the superheroes, Wonder Woman is the only one with a solo movie before the Justice League and she also got more focus in DOJ. If anything on of the other character could have done with a better introduction. At the very least, I can't see why they didn't release solo movies for The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg in 6 month increments along with Wonder Woman before the Justice League. It would have been more condensed than the way Marvel did it, but it would give each character more space to breath.

On the point of the soundtrack, I'm surprised some people think it is weak. It is a slow burner in parts, no doubt, but some of the tracks are wonderful. "A Beautiful Lie", (played at the opening of the movie), is haunting and melodic, I love it and it feeds nicely into "Their War Here", for the Metropolis scene with Bruce during the Zod attack. In my opinion the Batman theme is very evident, even more so than in the Dark Knight series. BTW, as far as I know Zimmer didn't do the Batman theme this time, he left that to Junkie XL.

mayordenis

Think overall it was pretty poor, both batman and superman are portrayed as assholes and worse still morons. I also am not delighted with sitting through a film that was in large parts an advertisement for more films.

Mitch Connor

rtron wrote: »

OK here's my take on the murderer thing.This batman kept things real, it was kill or be killed.There was loads of points where batman could have died unless some of the aggressors were not taken out.
Since the world is now full of super beings Batman has to be more ruthless and change the rules.

I think there has to be more to it, and I hope they explore and explain it at some point. The fact Batman is branding people (which is termed as tantamount to a death sentence) is considered to be something new and worrying according to news reports, and seen as an escalation. If he has already been killing people then branding them is surely not a big stretch.

mickoneill31 wrote: »

I saw it last night. I think there was 30 minutes of a great film in there with 2 hours of average. I thought the scenes with Batman were brilliant but I didn't get behind Bruce Wayne and his motivations.

And there were a few WTF am I watching moments.

The dream sequence where Superman has soldiers. Maybe this is relevant from the comics but I don't read them so I was lost. What were they trying to tell us. Either Bruce Wayne is having prophetic dreams and has a new power or he's going a bit psycho.

The dream within a dream where the mystical guy was saying "Lois is the key woooooo"

"They're going to kill Martha." Is that how anybody would say "They're going to kill my mother".
Then just in case for the stupid we had a couple of flashbacks where we're told again that Bruce's mothers name was Martha.
Then Batman basically saying, your mothers name is the same as my mothers name. In that case I'll forget about my issues with you and we can be friends.

Aquaman, Flash and whoever the robot guy was. That's OK Bruce, I'll hang on here for the story to continue while you basically watch some YouTube videos.

Any action scenes with Superman in action by himself saving people basically showing him as somebody to be worshipped. And him seeming to be OK with that.

Not sure this one is a spoiler. The death of the Waynes. I've seen this several times now in most Batmans and they're always the same. Did we need to see this again. Yes it told us that Bruces mothers name was Martha but I would have gotten that from the tomb scene later on anyway.

For myself I think that the film was OK and I enjoyed the action scenes. But if the Justice League films come out and they're directed by Zack Snyder I will probably wait for the DVD.

I took the dream sequences, particularly the post apocalyptic one, simply as a manifestation of Bruce's fears - showing how scared he is of Superman turning on the world, and why he wants to take him out. I personally don't take it as a vision of the actual future.

The Flash/Cybrog (i don't know which it was, didn't look like Flash to me at the time) bit I don't get at all. How/Why would they travel back in time to a DREAM!? Needs explanation (which I assume they plan on giving at some point in the future).

Also, watching the videos.... I thought it was extremely clumsy delivery of these charactors to the movie universe but I see no issue with him looking at them, makes perfect sense in relation to the story. He was looking for info firstly on the white russian and secondly on Wonder Woman (without knowing who she is at the time). Having looked at the files on her, why would he not look at the other three files? Poor delivery, but I think your comment there is wide of the critical mark.

Penn

Ben Gadot wrote: »

It's surprising that Smith has given his honest opinion given he was championing the film before release, doing everything from praising Affleck's Batman to hosting CW specials on the DCEU.

He deserves credit for breaking ranks so to speak given his friendship with Ben. It's interesting really, I wouldn't be surprised if Affleck is quietly making power plays behind the scenes.

His friendship with Affleck is pretty minimal by this point. I don't think they've spoken in a few years. But he did praise Affleck's performance in the film anyway (as do most people). But yeah, given his strong connections to DC, fair play to him for being honest.

homerun_homer

Why couldn't this movie have been a cleverer play off between the two leads, Bruce Wayne trying to uncover Superman's secret identity, Superman getting annoyed at how close he keeps getting and the battle emerges off of that. I imagine Clark figures out who Bruce is first and wrangling his way to interview him for an article in order to discover more about his motivations about why he, as Batman, wants to take Superman down. It could have been tense as a character thriller on top of all the big action sequences.

When the trailer showed the two of them meeting at Lex's party you got the impression that both knew who each other were but weren't completely letting on. It was so disappointing that that was the only scene with them not in their superhero outfits, and they both didn't actually know who each other were. Superman would have had more of a clue at the time because he was eavesdropping on Bruce's shenanigans.
Also, it is annoying that Lex makes a big deal of the two of them speaking together. It was purely for trailer purposes and not a bit credible.

maximoose

homerun_homer wrote: »

Why couldn't this movie have been a cleverer play off between the two leads, Bruce Wayne trying to uncover Superman's secret identity, Superman getting annoyed at how close he keeps getting and the battle emerges off of that

Master detective Bruce failing to deduce the identy after a chat with Clark followed by a face off with Supes shortly after was bad enough.

But I suppose he would have realised their mammies have the same name a lot earlier then and it would ruin the rest of the film.

Penn

maximoose wrote: »

Master detective Bruce failing to deduce the identy after a chat with Clark followed by a face off with Supes shortly after was bad enough.

But I suppose he would have realised their mammies have the same name a lot earlier then and it would ruin the rest of the film.

What makes it worse though is Lex knowing the identity of everyone, including Batman.

techdiver

The news that most people here were hoping for - http://moviepilot.com/posts/3836453?utm_source=fb-channel-superheroes&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=ben-affleck-basically-confirms-he-is-writing-the-solo-batman-film-with-geoff-johns

Geoff Johns on boards also.

ancapailldorcha

techdiver wrote: »

The news that most people here were hoping for - http://moviepilot.com/posts/3836453?utm_source=fb-channel-superheroes&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=ben-affleck-basically-confirms-he-is-writing-the-solo-batman-film-with-geoff-johns

Geoff Johns on boards also.

Now just tell me Snyder ain't going anywhere near it and we might be in for something decent.

techdiver

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Now just tell me Snyder ain't going anywhere near it and we might be in for something decent.

Apparently, Affleck will, write, direct and star in it.

ancapailldorcha

techdiver wrote: »

Apparently, Affleck will, write, direct and star in it.

Thank feck. I liked BvS but I'm fed up of this idea that comic book films somehow have to be stupid when some of the best stories I've ever read are superhero stories.

BMMachine

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Well given your rant yesterday about people who are "a part of the problem", I'm sure you'll be no longer contributing to that problem by paying to see Justice League.

I mean why pay to have someone piss all over your memories?

Yup. I'm right too.
You think that was an acceptable interpretation of the death of superman? The first comic series I probably read butchered on the big screen by a complete hack of a director. Accepting that as good is part of the problem when it comes to quality control. This complete distortion of what's good and bad and this utter lack of objectivity when it comes to entertainment all hidden by the precarious "opinion" defense are part of the problem.

So no. I will not be paying to watch Zack Snyder ruin Darkseid because his track record consists of ruining Zod, Lex and most of all Doomsday

homerun_homer

So suicide Squad's trailer is all full of dark comedy from some of the characters, how is this going to blend with Snyder's gloomfest once the worlds collide?

techdiver

homerun_homer wrote: »

So suicide Squad's trailer is all full of dark comedy from some of the characters, how is this going to blend with Snyder's gloomfest once the worlds collide?

Chris Terrio was quoted as saying that he hopes to lift the tone of the Justice League movies from BvS - http://www.cinemablend.com/new/One-Key-Way-Justice-League-Different-From-Batman-V-Superman-117997.html

rogercross

Its probably just me but my eyes hurt watching some of those scenes especially the car chase scene, shaky camera, zoomed in so ya can only see a very small portion of whats going on, and enough lights and lense flare to burn out my retinas.

Ben Gadot

BMMachine wrote: »

Yup. I'm right too.
You think that was an acceptable interpretation of the death of superman? The first comic series I probably read butchered on the big screen by a complete hack of a director. Accepting that as good is part of the problem when it comes to quality control. This complete distortion of what's good and bad and this utter lack of objectivity when it comes to entertainment all hidden by the precarious "opinion" defense are part of the problem.

So no. I will not be paying to watch Zack Snyder ruin Darkseid because his track record consists of ruining Zod, Lex and most of all Doomsday

The Doomsday/Death of Superman arc isn't exactly a stellar piece of comic literature. My favourite aspect of the story was always the shock brutality of their first battle and the death/funeral.

After that the story isn't compelling to me and while it's obviously one of his most memorable stories, it's not one of his best.

So I think Snyder took the guts of the Doomsday arc that are actually good and did a good job. The design of Doomsday was poor admittedly.

Venom

maximoose wrote: »

Master detective Bruce failing to deduce the identy after a chat with Clark followed by a face off with Supes shortly after was bad enough.

But I suppose he would have realised their mammies have the same name a lot earlier then and it would ruin the rest of the film.

That didn't bug me to much, as I always felt it was a a bit of a running joke that Supes just put on a pair of glasses and no one copped on he was Clark Kent.

What really did bug me tho, was that Batman, the worlds greatest detective, had to

break into Lex's computer files to find out that the White Portuguese was in fact a boat with the name White Portuguese written in big letters on its bow

Seriously, the batcave has no access to google!

allibastor

Ben Gadot wrote: »

The Doomsday/Death of Superman arc isn't exactly a stellar piece of comic literature. My favourite aspect of the story was always the shock brutality of their first battle and the death/funeral.

After that the story isn't compelling to me and while it's obviously one of his most memorable stories, it's not one of his best.

So I think Snyder took the guts of the Doomsday arc that are actually good and did a good job. The design of Doomsday was poor admittedly.

He looked Like he came straight form the set of the Hobbit!!!

The comic on the subject itself was OK, but the fight was way better. Hell even the animated version was pretty brutal.

Venom

Ben Gadot wrote: »

The Doomsday/Death of Superman arc isn't exactly a stellar piece of comic literature. My favourite aspect of the story was always the shock brutality of their first battle and the death/funeral.

After that the story isn't compelling to me and while it's obviously one of his most memorable stories, it's not one of his best.

So I think Snyder took the guts of the Doomsday arc that are actually good and did a good job. The design of Doomsday was poor admittedly.

It still deserved more than to be butchered in the final 20 minutes of BvS tho. DC instead of trying to catch up to what Marvel are doing asap, should of seen what worked so well for the competition and tried and setting up more solo movies for it's own main characters then working on the multi character movies when people actually give a toss about said characters.

Marvel were able to set up there next movie with fcuk tons of hype via 1-2 minute after credit teasers segments and by using well though out reoccurring characters like Fury and Coulson.

Zillah

I just want to say that I adored Wonder Woman's guitar riff theme song.

Teaser here.

Mitch Connor

Venom wrote: »

That didn't bug me to much, as I always felt it was a a bit of a running joke that Supes just put on a pair of glasses and no one copped on he was Clark Kent.

What really did bug me tho, was that Batman, the worlds greatest detective, had to

break into Lex's computer files to find out that the White Portuguese was in fact a boat with the name White Portuguese written in big letters on its bow

Seriously, the batcave has no access to google!

Why would he assume it's the boat and not a drink if he just Googled it?

maximoose

Zillah wrote: »

I just want to say that I adored Wonder Woman's guitar riff theme song.

Teaser here.

I liked it too, the only memorable piece really from the score for me.

Tony EH

Anyone want to tell me what was so "memorable" about the score for 'The Avengers"? Or 'Ant-Man'? Or "Ironman"? Or "Thor"? Or any other superhero film in the last 10 years, bar Nolan's Batman theme?

Because besides that, I can't recall a single bar out of any of them and I'll wager neither can a lot of others, even the people complaining.

Really not sure what to make of all the criticism over this picture. I haven't seen it yet and might not bother seeing it in the cinema. But an awful lot of the critiicism rings really hollow.

Ben Gadot

Venom wrote: »

It still deserved more than to be butchered in the final 20 minutes of BvS tho. DC instead of trying to catch up to what Marvel are doing asap, should of seen what worked so well for the competition and tried and setting up more solo movies for it's own main characters then working on the multi character movies when people actually give a toss about said characters.

Marvel were able to set up there next movie with fcuk tons of hype via 1-2 minute after credit teasers segments and by using well though out reoccurring characters like Fury and Coulson.

The final twenty minutes wasn't about Doomsday but about Clark. It reduced Doomsday to a mere plot device but that's exactly what his introduction was in the comics: a means of killing off Superman with no long term build.