Batman v Superman *spoilers from post 2434*

martingriff

TheDoc wrote: »

But surely it should also be accepted, that if filmmakers make a film based on source material, that they can also comfortably assume that viewership will have some prior knowledge about the subject matter?

Like the film clearly includes some segments that provide some light background and platform building, but that it doesn't go into massive depth surely isn't a bad thing.

Like for example the

Robin suit in the batcave with jokers writing

there is some clear indications there, that there is either a nod to, or expectation, that viewers will understand that reference.

And even if they don't, there might well be a hope that people might get interested enough that they will go read about universe or the characters and the stories, as the film has peaked an interest.

I know one of my first reactions after a friend telling me about

The death of superman story

, is to go get my hands on that story and read it.

I don't see a problem with some films being constructed in a way that bank on the viewership being knowledgeable about the material at hand. Like I see some issues raised with the film opening, and for me I had no problem. I didn't need to see, for the two dozenth time, a take on how Bruce Wayne comes to be Batman. I get it.

Quite frankly that is just bull and if they went with that mindset then they deserve a kicking. You should not have to go and read anything for a movie to make sense and I be amazed if they did. What happened is they crammed 2 much into 1 movie. That been the case and its not 2 late to keep on to people the other movies hopefully will have a more cohesive plot that does not leave people wondering what now.

martingriff

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

If you wanna go back and read the conversation, go for it. I'm not going back to an earlier point in this argument for you.

I was only quoting your post of Batman is not a murder. I have only seen the movie so only sporadically came on here to get a general view of what people thought were with no spoilers.

Ben Gadot

Wedwood wrote: »

The one thing that disappointed me was Hans Zimmer's soundtrack. It was completely unmemorable, the best bits were reprises of his Man of Steel score.

Zimmer's last few movie scores all sound the same, listen to Amazing Spider-Man 2, Interstellar and BvS and you'd struggle to distinguish which is which.

I hope they get Michael Giachinno for the next given John Williams is probably not an option.

Zimmer has taken on too many scores over the last few years but I own both the Interstellar and TASM2 scores and I don't find them similar. Interstellar is probably one of his more distinguishable scores in recent memory.

But I agree about the MOS themes being the best of his score for BVS. The day of the dead scene overlapped with Zimmer's Superman theme is a very powerful moment. I'm looking forward to soaking that moment in again.

BMMachine

crap plot
no motivation for characters
inane confusing actions taken by the main characters
tone and structure severely lacking (started with a dream sequence, a theme that continued)
a 3rd act pitting the poorly developed characters against a cartoon monster thrown together for no reason at all
extremely poor narrative in every scene (batman leaves his superman killing spear on the ground. then, lois puts it in a fountain. WHY? WHY ARE ANY OF THESE PEOPLE DOING THESE THINGS)
crap shoved in
plot points forgotten about (hey Clark you didnt do the sports section like I asked but hey who cares Im now going to leave the film but you will see me at the end in a montage. Why was I even in the film actually? who knows! Ask Zack!)
absolutely untrue to the characters in the comics
trying to mix too many comics together (SURE YEAH JUST SHOVE DEATH OF SUPERMAN IN THERE WHY NOT WHO DID IT A CARTOON MONSTER THAT LEX MADE FOR NO REASON OK THATS GREAT NEXT SCENE)
exploding wheelchair in a court for no reason which also killed Mercy Graves
Jimmy Olsen is a CIA Agent and dies in a few seconds
Batman is just angry and kind of stupid
confusing and messy action sequences which are just explosions
Awful dialogue that just made you confused and hated everybody. Jesse Eisenberg would get some nice lines in and then some stupid ones in and no, its not a case of "OH THATS HIS CHARACTER" no its not, Lex is not like that and neither was the Lex in this.
Little details out of sync - Lex would know the story of how Zeus got his thunderbolt. In this, they made some crap up about Prometheus giving it to him and just christ... have your researchers get this stuff right before shooting the scene ffs.




I wanted this to be good. I really did. I love DC and have spent so much on their stuff over the years but just like the Green Lantern film, this was a massive slap in the face. Do I blame DC? Partly. But most of all I blame that absolute huckster Zack Snyder. Never had it, never will have it. How he managed to get two hundred and fifty million dollars to make this film is simply amazing. tbh it actually gives me hope that something so ridiculous could happen to me one day

shootermacg

haterz gonna hate, potatoes gonna potate.

youngblood

Wedwood wrote: »

The one thing that disappointed me was Hans Zimmer's soundtrack. It was completely unmemorable, the best bits were reprises of his Man of Steel score.

Zimmer's last few movie scores all sound the same, listen to Amazing Spider-Man 2, Interstellar and BvS and you'd struggle to distinguish which is which.

I hope they get Michael Giachinno for the next given John Williams is probably not an option.

Awful soundtrack, when it wasn't totally intrusive at moments when it should have been complementary, it was totally forgettable

johnnysmack

Quick question, how does lex know who superman and batman are? Or at least when did he find out? When he's on the helipad blackmailing superman he knows everything.

Also Gotham and metropolis are right across a river from each other according to this film.

BlitzKrieg

well if ben affleck is batman. makes sense that gotham is New Jersey...

Drumpot

Watched it second time and revise my score from 5/10 to 7/10.

Firstly the dream sequences aren't a confusing mess.

Secondly and more importantly, watching it from batmans perspective makes the "Martha" bit that stops the fight very powerful.

I think the whole movie sets up how haunted batman is about his parents death. How he felt helpless. The bit at the end where he could save supermans mother was the perfect chance at redemption. He couldn't save his own parents but he can save clarks.

I think people will choose to let it annoy them or will find that moment really powerful. I thought it made much more sense out of batmans actions. It was 18 months since superman had the fight with zod. A fight that probably brought up those helpless emotions that he felt when his parents died. It could of been toxic to Bruce , making him cruel (like Alfred said) and demented. On some level perhaps he felt killing superman would force the world into order (like batman actually says).

In the end, Bruce realises he failed superman. Superman wasn't cruel and wasn't the enemy. Bruce's demons within nearly killed superman and supermans own relationship with his mother allowed Bruce come back from self destruction.

Snyders movies are difficult to follow on first viewing. I am glad that I went again. I imagine many people won't share my sentiments but I think it's a solid movie.

BrookieD

I will admit the score was very weak and jarring in places. Nothing close to a theme for the bat or wonder woman. really needs John Williams to take over

darced

This post has been deleted.

Icaras

jones wrote: »

I wonder how much of a difference the directors cut will make to this. Could it be a "kingdom of heaven" job that totally changed the film with the added scenes or will it be just superfluous stuff.

Going by the only deleted scene I've seen it looks like it would of explained a fairly big thing in the movie but was cut so I'm just wondering what else has been cut that might of helped the movie flow a little better.

Dont hold your breath on this one. Snyder isnt a master film maker - he makes pretty films with good/great action sequences, 300 and watchmen had the story written for him and he basically copied the comic picture by picture. Sucker Punch which he wrote and directed is such an amazing horrible mess. Im expecting longer fight sequences and a few bits but not expecting the film to be "saved".

Penn

darced wrote: »

Cant believe the score is coming in for criticism as well, I thought it was powerful stuff. The opening scene and Superman's death being truly memorable in my opinion. Loved how the MOS score was used.

Yeah I quite liked the score throughout. To be honest if there was a theme for Batman in it, it didn't stand out as I wouldn't for the life of me be able to remember what it sounds like now, but I liked the use of the MoS theme as well as the powerful Justice League theme that played when WW was both looking at the files about the other JL members and when she arrived into the Doomsday battle. Really shook the room. (Edit: Just checked and it's actually Wonder Woman's theme, not Justice League. Still though, think it's really good)

Nervous Wreck

Drumpot wrote: »

Snyders movies are difficult to follow on first viewing.

That's only because they make no sense, not because they're in any way complex or well thought out.

Venom

Icaras wrote: »

Dont hold your breath on this one. Snyder isnt a master film maker - he makes pretty films with good/great action sequences, 300 and watchmen had the story written for him and he basically copied the comic picture by picture. Sucker Punch which he wrote and directed is such an amazing horrible mess. Im expecting longer fight sequences and a few bits but not expecting the film to be "saved".

There is ment to be 30 minutes of cut footage getting added to the DVD/blue-ray release, according to rumors and that's a hell of a lot of movie time if used correctly. The actions scenes in BvS are great so extra dialogue to better define the main characters could really add so much to this movie.

IvySlayer

I hated this film. I went in with low expectations and it was still that bad.

Zack Snyder visually is an amazing director, but the storytelling and the pacing was badly handled.

Anyone laugh at Supermans

nod to Dark Knight: WHERE IS SHE???

claireblossom

Saw it today, was exactly what I expected it to be, which is disappointing because I REALLY wanted this film to be great.

I share most of my qualms about this film with previous posters so I wont delve to deep into them, but it was apparent that there was the bones of a brilliant movie here, but the shoddy editing and pacing just completely ruined it.

I've never seen a film struggle so hard to convince it's audience to take it seriously. As much as I love superheroes, they're generally a cheesy and at times dumb concept, and that's okay! Marvel knows this, and they embrace the silliness, and move on, and it works!. Whereas BvS seems to be doing its best to erase the audience's memory of the cheerful cheesy boy scout of a hero that was the Superman they know. My friend who saw it with me described the tone excellently in my opinion, "Imagine if Pacific Rim, a movie that is about robots punching monsters in the face, tried to sell itself as a serious film, dark and stoic movie, that's what this film felt like"
I understand that DC wants to distance them from the Marvel style, and take a darker tone, but seriously, it's okay to have some fun every now and again, even Nolan's trilogy had it's fun and uplifting moments.

Despite that there was a lot of things I really enjoyed about this movie
Wonder Woman, didn't get enough of her tbh, been waiting years to see her on the big screen so maybe my fan girling is clouding my judgement, but when she showed up in full costume to fight Doomsday, it completely justified the ticket price. Can't wait for her solo outing, hopefully it's director does a better job than Snyder.
Affleck's Batman, was brilliant, miles ahead of Christian Bale, like WW, hope to see him in a better film where we can really appreciate his take on the character. I was vehemently against Affleck when he was cast but he won me over.
Brilliant scene of Bruce in Metropolis during Zod's attack, even if it was really on the nose with the 9/11 imagery, that sequence was better than the whole of MOS's 3rd act.
Loved the Jason Todd nod, Death in The Family is one of my favourite Batman stories, so I'm excited to see it explored in either Suicide Squad/ Batman sequel. Those saying that people not affiliated with the comics wouldn't get it, my friend who knows nothing about the comics copped that it was a Robin suit that has been defaced by the Joker, and put 2+2 together and assumed that Robin had been killed by the Joker. The Joker is pretty iconic in pop culture, especially after the Dark Knight, so I think even a graffitied "HA HA!" in the presence of Batman will alert people to his presence.
The Batmobile driving into the hidden entrance in the lake and speeding on the ramp towards the Batcave was great and like a scene from the animated series.
Wonder Woman again, just cause.

Would give it a 5/10, would love to wake up in the morning to the news of DC giving Snyder the boot from Justice League, alas, probably not gonna happen and we're just gonna be given a rehash of the same style of substance again.

Ben Gadot

BMMachine wrote: »

How he managed to get two hundred and fifty million dollars to make this film is simply amazing. tbh it actually gives me hope that something so ridiculous could happen to me one day

It's an envious position alright. Snyder has done well to get to the position he's in there's no doubt about that. I'm actually surprised Warner and DC have let Snyder and his wife position themselves into such a central position given they're producing all these films.

It just makes it incredibly difficult to cut ties if they were tempted to, but something tells me Snyder will respectfully step aside from directing duties after JL part 2.

BMMachine

Ben Gadot wrote: »

It's an envious position alright. Snyder has done well to get to the position he's in there's no doubt about that. I'm actually surprised Warner and DC have let Snyder and his wife position themselves into such a central position given they're producing all these films.

It just makes it incredibly difficult to cut ties if they were tempted to, but something tells me Snyder will respectfully step aside from directing duties after JL part 2.

right after hes finished taking a massive dump on Darkseid and pissed all over my memories

great cant wait

Drumpot

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

That's only because they make no sense, not because they're in any way complex or well thought out.

You thought MOS and watchmen made no sense?

Chain Smoker

Part of me wants Snyder to keep making financially successful films so we can get another bigger passion project from him

darced

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm a big fan of Hans Zimmer's compositions in general (roll on May 26th at the 3Arena), but for the most part the score in this movie was lost on me. The only time I recognised it, for a good reason, was when the piano Superman themes from MoS were used. I cannot for the life of me remember what Batman's theme sounded like.

One theme that threw me off was Wonder Woman's in the final battle. I have seen other fans express their love for it on the internet, and I'm happy that it was effective for a lot of people, but for me it was very out of place when it kicked in. The accented beats on the percussion are very similar to Bane's theme from TDKRises. I liked that, but the guitar melody that's played over it will take some growing on me through further listening. Maybe it might work better for me in the WW movie, where it will be more central than 'out of the blue' as I found it just a bit too much in the BvS climax.

So much happening in this movie with the visuals never mind the score, I'm looking forward to a second viewing soon. I will be on the look out for certain things next time that might have escaped me first time i.e. Lex's motivation. Another thing I will be paying close attention to is the score. It's not that I think it was bad, I honestly can't remember it to be able to judge it right now.

Josey Wales

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Part of me wants Snyder to keep making financially successful films so we can get another bigger passion project from him

As in another Sucker Punch? Really?

Icaras

Venom wrote: »

There is ment to be 30 minutes of cut footage getting added to the DVD/blue-ray release, according to rumors and that's a hell of a lot of movie time if used correctly. The actions scenes in BvS are great so extra dialogue to better define the main characters could really add so much to this movie.

That's a very big if. From what he has previously done, followed two comic book adaptions picture for picture and the mess of sucker punch I'm not optimistic. I do plan on buying the extended version when it comes out but am not expecting a fixed film - if it happens it will be a nice bonus.

martingriff

johnnysmack wrote: »

Quick question, how does lex know who superman and batman are? Or at least when did he find out? When he's on the helipad blackmailing superman he knows everything.

Also Gotham and metropolis are right across a river from each other according to this film.

I am guessing from the Kryton ship for Superman

Nervous Wreck

Drumpot wrote: »

You thought MOS and watchmen made no sense?

Watchmen made plenty of sense. MoS, not so much.

Penn

stankratz wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Hans Zimmer's compositions in general (roll on May 26th at the 3Arena), but for the most part the score in this movie was lost on me. The only time I recognised it, for a good reason, was when the piano Superman themes from MoS were used. I cannot for the life of me remember what Batman's theme sounded like.

One theme that threw me off was Wonder Woman's in the final battle. I have seen other fans express their love for it on the internet, and I'm happy that it was effective for a lot of people, but for me it was very out of place when it kicked in. The accented beats on the percussion are very similar to Bane's theme from TDKRises. I liked that, but the guitar melody that's played over it will take some growing on me through further listening. Maybe it might work better for me in the WW movie, where it will be more central than 'out of the blue' as I found it just a bit too much in the BvS climax.

So much happening in this movie with the visuals never mind the score, I'm looking forward to a second viewing soon. I will be on the look out for certain things next time that might have escaped me first time i.e. Lex's motivation. Another thing I will be paying close attention to is the score. It's not that I think it was bad, I honestly can't remember it to be able to judge it right now.

I thought the fact that the WW theme was so out of place suited the situation though. It really differentiated that now, the Trinity is in play, they're on the same side and they're ready to throw down. I suppose in a sense, it helps bookmark the difference between the Batman v Superman part of the film, and the Dawn of Justice part of the film.

But, don't waste your time looking for Lex's motivation in a second viewing. It still won't be there. It's alluded to in a deleted scene that was released over the weekend, but even then it doesn't make a whole bunch of sense. It's just non-existent in the film.

faceman

Blitzkrieg posts are bang on the money. A movie has to stand on its own two feet. BvS doesn't.

It's come up a few times and i didn't mention it before, the dream sequences in this were school kid essay material at best. Dream sequences in movies usually serve the purpose of offering a symbolic reference for the characters. In BvS, there are two dream sequence scenes that are pushing plot and its barmy. It reminded me of The Room and when the mother said the "its definitely cancer" line.

It's lazy, forced storytelling.

Wannabegarda

The biggest problem with this movie is the editing and direction. Theres a great movie in here but the second dream sequence made no sense. One thing cut from one to the other and the audience got lost. Im watching it a second time tonight and its a better movie the second time you watch it. There are clearly scenes in it that were taken out and should have been left in. Snyder i think has to go for justice league. We need a director who wont assume that everybody knows about comics.
They tried to cram too much in and that what went wrong. I think that this movie could have held off a year and that a solo batfleck movie should have been made first, establishing the movie world and end that film with the battle of metropolis. That would have avoided all the issue in this film.

Great acting and visuals but shtie direction.

Ben Gadot

BMMachine wrote: »

right after hes finished taking a massive dump on Darkseid and pissed all over my memories

great cant wait

Well given your rant yesterday about people who are "a part of the problem", I'm sure you'll be no longer contributing to that problem by paying to see Justice League.

I mean why pay to have someone piss all over your memories?