Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

Caoimhgh1n · 29-03-2016 11:31PM

doireannod wrote: »

What about a good doctor eh?

That too, but it doesn't help when you have a complete idiot nurse treating you and nearly making you worse because she knows less about what is wrong than you do.

Inspector Coptoor · 29-03-2016 11:32PM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Most professionals would have to work 5/6 years to get to 31k and you have the cheek to expect more starting off because you're a teacher. WHY?

Generation entitlement is here guys.

Hold on a minute here.
You're not grasping the concept here at all.

It's not about "cheek" or entitlement.

I think my wage is fair.
I thoroughly deserve it and I work very hard and I make no apologies for thinking I'm worth my salary.

The issue here is that the starting wages was €38k, was reduced to €31k in 2011 and teachers want that starting salary restored.
So it's not about entitlement - it's about pay restoration.

mulbot · 29-03-2016 11:34PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Fair enough, each job has its challenges though. Nothing more important than a good nurse/teacher.

Important word-Do teachers still get their raises regardless of how good or bad they are?

Inspector Coptoor · 29-03-2016 11:35PM

cena wrote: »

Why become a teacher if you know what the pay was like before you started. A teachers job shouldn't be about the money but about the kids

For a lot of teachers who qualified in 2011 or 2012, they were already in the system when the change was made.
a student could have entered into a course in September 2010 to become a teacher expecting the starting salary to be €38k, spend €7-8k on the H Dip, get the qualification and the starting salary has been reduced to €31k.

Teachers on the new scales will earn €100,000 less over the course of their careers.

This is not just.

KatW4 · 29-03-2016 11:35PM

Augeo wrote:

Wow, that bit about giving kids your lunch does bring home the awful things teachers deal with. It must be heartbreaking to be seeing neglected kids struggle through their formative years.

The 2nd bolded piece.... it's an awful system that has useless gnomes on big money doing the "same" job as yourself but not anywhere near as well and you not being rewarded adequately for your endeavours. It's equally awful that teachers who do their job well are getting lots more wages than you.

The solution is beyond me, I sincerely hope in a few years you are full time and better rewarded.

I think I lived in a little bubble before I became a teacher and didn't realise the amount of neglect that went on. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've heard. I've lost count of the times I've sat in my car and cried after school because one of my kids is going through something awful at home and apart from reporting it and being kind to the child, there is nothing I can do for them. I'd have a lot of children if I was allowed to adopt all of my kids who are badly neglected.

Thank you for being supportive and your kind words. I have never complained about my wages, until this thread. I think teachers are paid okay, but it isn't fair that newer teachers are getting less money because of the year they trained.

I doubt it'll ever be fair but I'll never give up teaching because I love my job and my kids.

mulbot · 29-03-2016 11:35PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

That too, but it doesn't help when you have a complete idiot nurse treating you and nearly making you worse because she knows less about what is wrong than you do.

What about when you have a complete idiot teacher teaching?

maudgonner · 29-03-2016 11:36PM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Fairness?

What's fair about it?

The latest graduate salary figures I can find are quite outdated, but in 2010 the median was 24,000. It was projected to be 25k in 2011, so let's say that trend continued and it's now 30k. So it's safe to say that a teacher would be starting on higher than the median graduate salary.

Secondary teaching is 5-6 years, I'm assuming that primary is still 4? Many non-teaching graduates would be coming out of masters/Phd programmes also. Some of them would have potential to have more rapid career progression than teaching, but many would not and would have far less job security and benefits than the public sector.

So overall, on balance I think 31k is a fair starting wage. But I'd like to see that 31k be a possibility for the majority of new teachers, and I think that's where resources should be directed, rather than at those who did very well out of the boom time benchmarking.

29-03-2016 11:37PM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Fairness?

What's fair about it?

3 or 4 year degree plus a now obligatory 2 years Progessional Masters in Education and you start on €31k that goes to €59,940 after 25 years with very small prospects of promotion.

If we want good teachers we need to pay good wages.

€31k might be a fair starting wage for some people but I don't think it's is for teachers and nurses.

Do you think 60k is low? You know that half of all people that work in this country earn less than 28.5k?

What careers, exactly, are you comparing 31k to 60k salary scales to that makes you think it's not 'a good wage'?

thomasdylan · 29-03-2016 11:38PM

From the outside looking in, teachers should be protesting more about the lack of full time positions for young teachers. I think that should be the focus not pay.

Caoimhgh1n · 29-03-2016 11:38PM

mulbot wrote: »

What about when you have a complete idiot teacher teaching?

Then you make a complaint.

Inspector Coptoor · 29-03-2016 11:38PM

mulbot wrote: »

Important word-Do teachers still get their raises regardless of how good or bad they are?

Agreed on that point.
The word good there is very important.

The answer to your question is Yes.
Increments are awarded on an ad hoc basis.

We don't have performance related pay.
It would be very difficult to set up the parameters for it in teaching.
It cannot be based on grades.

KatW4 · 29-03-2016 11:40PM

cena wrote:

Why become a teacher if you know what the pay was like before you started. A teachers job shouldn't be about the money but about the kids

I became a teacher because I love children and I really love my job. And if it was all about money to me, then I wouldn't be a teacher.

mulbot · 29-03-2016 11:41PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Then you make a complaint.

Yet the salary scale will still remain for that teacher!

Inspector Coptoor · 29-03-2016 11:42PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

Do you think 60k is low? You know that half of all people that work in this country earn less than 28.5k?

What careers, exactly, are you comparing 31k to 60k salary scales to that makes you think it's not 'a good wage'?

I think €60k is a decent wage.
I do know that factoid - it was spouted incessantly by the Sinners in the lead up to the election.

I'm not comparing salary scales of other professions.
I'll fight my own corner.

cena · 29-03-2016 11:42PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Not when the money is unfair and low, like this teacher's. Teachers go beyond their call of duty for the children, and regularly.

What kind of call of duty do you do for the kids. I work with kids and don't it for the money but for the love of the kids.

Caoimhgh1n · 29-03-2016 11:43PM

cena wrote: »

What kind of call of duty do you do for the kids. I work with kids and don't it for the money but for the love of the kids.

Things have been listed before on this thread, if you'd care to look through it.

cena · 29-03-2016 11:45PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Things have been listed before on this thread, if you'd care to look through it.

not going through 41 pages

29-03-2016 11:46PM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I think €60k is a decent wage.
I do know that factoid - it was spouted incessantly by the Sinners in the lead up to the election.

I'm not comparing salary scales of other professions.
I'll fight my own corner.

You think a starting wage that is two and a half thousand euro higher than the median income for the country is too low? And that's before we even mention job security and holidays! For real?

Caoimhgh1n · 29-03-2016 11:46PM

cena wrote: »

not going through 41 pages

Alright.

Inspector Coptoor · 29-03-2016 11:49PM

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

You think a starting wage that is two and a half thousand euro higher than the median income for the country is too low? And that's before we even mention job security and holidays! For real?

Yes.
I'm for real.
The starting wage should be restored to €38k.

It takes a long time to get job security.
I'm teaching 10 years and only got job security last year.

Teaching is not the easy job with security and gold plated pensions it is made out to be.

Why should there be a race to to the bottom?
Why should I or anyone else settle for median values?

maudgonner · 29-03-2016 11:52PM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I think €60k is a decent wage.
I do know that factoid - it was spouted incessantly by the Sinners in the lead up to the election.

I'm not comparing salary scales of other professions.
I'll fight my own corner.

To me 60k seems like a very good wage. Am I right in saying that the 60k level is reached just because of length of service. i.e. Not due to promotion, or extra duties? (I know there isn't huge scope for these in teaching though)

Bearing in mind that for most careers in the private sector it would be fairly unusual to progress up a payscale like that without promotion, extra training & qualifications or significant extra responsibilities.

Inspector Coptoor · 29-03-2016 11:56PM

maudgonner wrote: »

To me 60k seems like a very good wage. Am I right in saying that the 60k level is reached just because of length of service. i.e. Not due to promotion, or extra duties? (I know there isn't huge scope for these in teaching though)

Bearing in mind that for most careers in the private sector it would be fairly unusual to progress up a payscale like that without promotion, extra training & qualifications or significant extra responsibilities.

Yes.
All true.

And yeah, im aware of that in relation to other careers.

doireannod · 29-03-2016 11:57PM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Yes.
I'm for real.
The starting wage should be restored to €38k.

You think teachers should start on a higher salary to doctors?

Inspector Coptoor · 30-03-2016 12:02AM

doireannod wrote: »

You think teachers should start on a higher salary to doctors?

No.
Doctors should be on a lot more than they are currently.
I think doctors should start on €50k.
They do have huge earning Potential in their later careers, something teachers don't have unless they become a HM of a very large school

jcon1913 · 30-03-2016 12:07AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Its poor money. I wouldn't work weekends, nights or Christmas for that.
Its an insult.

Well dont then. I wouldnt. But lots would and do. Like I sais its not too shabby.

maudgonner · 30-03-2016 12:10AM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Yes.

Why should there be a race to to the bottom?
Why should I or anyone else settle for median values?

Well it sounds like you want a race to the top, not a race to the bottom. If teachers' salaries go up, so should nurses, and doctors and guards, and firemen etc etc.

But of course someone has to pay for it, so taxes skyrocket. And people in the private sector what? Have to lump it? Or get their own raises. Which means that teachers' wages are below the median again...

Why shouldn't teachers settle for the median? Do you think your job is so much harder than the average? A few people on here have mentioned that others should try teaching for a day to see how hard it is. Maybe teachers should try other jobs for a day, get the opposite perspective.

jcon1913 · 30-03-2016 12:14AM

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I've read some great posts on here before but that is the best. Keep on hating.

As for the pay - pay 'parity' not a pay rise is what is being sought here. It's unfair that young teachers are being paid unequally due to the faults of the government and bank officials and quite possibly the INTO themselves (in not seeking a better deal in the original talks).

Teachers here are well-paid relative to teachers in other countries and to other workers. Thats why the entry points are so high for teacher training college for national school teachers. Because its well paid, comfortable and suits lots of people who are off when their children need minding.

Having said that Ive no doubt the teachers will get their pay rises. They are very skilled as a group at wringing good pay and conditions out of sucessive Irish governments.

jcon1913 · 30-03-2016 12:17AM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Fairness?

What's fair about it?

3 or 4 year degree plus a now obligatory 2 years Progessional Masters in Education and you start on €31k that goes to €59,940 after 25 years with very small prospects of promotion.

If we want good teachers we need to pay good wages.

€31k might be a fair starting wage for some people but I don't think it's is for teachers and nurses.

Get another job then. Eyes wide open and all that. Its not as if you dont know about the pay and conditions before going into teaching.

30-03-2016 12:18AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

Having said that Ive no doubt the teachers will get their pay rises. They are very skilled as a group at wringing good pay and conditions out of sucessive Irish governments.

Exhibit A. http://www.politicalworld.org/archive/index.php/t-6990.html

doireannod · 30-03-2016 12:20AM

jcon1913 wrote: »

Teachers here are well-paid relative to teachers in other countries and to other workers. Thats why the entry points are so high for teacher training college for national school teachers. Because its well paid, comfortable and suits lots of people who are off when their children need minding.

Having said that Ive no doubt the teachers will get their pay rises. They are very skilled as a group at wringing good pay and conditions out of sucessive Irish governments.

If teachers get their pay rise/pay restored both the Luas drivers and the teachers will be out earning the doctors. And people wonder why there aren so few Irish faces looking back at them in Irish hospitals.

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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