Giving women time off for periods

runawaybishop · 29-03-2016 04:17PM

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

I'm not going to dispute what you're saying, but would love to see the back up for this? Genuinely interested.

Mountains of articles online about it. Once women start having kids the men overtake them.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 29-03-2016 04:19PM

hearmehearye wrote: »

I just saw the 'pill= no periods" comment, and even though he's getting a going over for it, it's not entirely untrue. Running packs of pills together stops periods for some women.

Occasionally, but you're not supposed to do this constantly

Electric Sex Pants · 29-03-2016 04:25PM

The wage gap is a complete myth. It is illegal to pay women less for the same work just because they are women. No reputable economist takes it seriously.

In fact women are often payed more. Its the different life choices that result in the wage difference when you look across all industries.

Women get months of maternity leave where men get 2 days, so this must have some influence on the decision? And they choose to, its not mandatory.

How exactly does society hate women?

Lavinia wrote: »

It is not a secret that women are less paid for the same jobs anyway, yet it does not bother males, right?

Also usually women are those who have to sacrifice their career to raise kids - all of you who are posting here included.

Why society hates women so much???

Instead of regarding them for the role they play... And having an understanding for the issues they are facing...

Lavinia · 29-03-2016 04:25PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It's not possible to have children, be a stay at home mom and expect to still earn as much as you did with a job.

If you make the choice to have a child and stay home with the child, you can't fault society. It's not society that made you a parent

I am just saying that we as society can have a different view on parenting is all. Review the stand-points. Some countries are so much in front of Ireland on that point.

runawaybishop wrote: »

Women are not paid less, they are paid more.

Search for some facts before writing something like this.

runawaybishop · 29-03-2016 04:33PM

Lavinia wrote: »

Search for some facts before writing something like this.

No thanks, you made the initial claim so you get to post "facts" first

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 29-03-2016 04:34PM

Lavinia wrote: »

I am just saying that we as society can have a different view on parenting is all. Review the stand-points. Some countries are so much in front of Ireland on that point.

Search for some facts before writing something like this.

What do you mean? You're either a stay at home mom or you're a working mom. You can't have your cake and eat it.

stoplooklisten · 29-03-2016 04:37PM

How much tax on sanitary products these days?

One eyed Jack · 29-03-2016 05:36PM

Lavinia wrote: »

It is not a secret that women are less paid for the same jobs anyway, yet it does not bother males, right?

Why would it be supposed to bother people that they are paid more than someone else? I imagine it bothers people who are paid less a lot more, regardless of their gender. That's probably because they are willfully choosing to ignore the reasons why other people are paid more then them, and those reasons are often not gender related at all.

Also usually women are those who have to sacrifice their career to raise kids - all of you who are posting here included.

If you consider the benefits of being able to spend time with your children a sacrifice, I'm not sure why you'd even want children.

You wouldn't have to sacrifice your career then. You don't have to sacrifice your career to raise children, but if you're going to take a career break or work less hours to raise children, then you really can't complain that you're not on the same salary as the guy who just got promoted.

Why society hates women so much???

Given that women make up about half of society, and you are part of that society, you're probably in a better position to answer that question than I am, because I'm a man, and I think women are fantastic!

Instead of regarding them for the role they play... And having an understanding for the issues they are facing...

I certainly regard my wife highly for the contribution she makes to society working in the home. The only issue she faces, and the one that really chips away at her sometimes is the judgement she feels she faces from other women who are stressed out and struggling from trying to be all things to all women and they're simply not able to fulfil all the roles that other women expect of them.

I couldn't give a fiddlers personally, but that isn't because I'm a man, it's because I don't feel the pressure from other men to try and juggle a career and motherhood and being a wife and all the while doing it with a smile on my face and my best power walk in heels!!

It's true, women don't have it easy in society today, but really, they can't blame society for that, they have fo look at themselves and re-evaluate their priorities rather than expect society to fix all their problems.

Lavinia · 29-03-2016 09:03PM

I understand your nick now, "one eyed" Jack... Don't get me wrong.

The fact is that woman are paid less for the same job - and this is discrimination based on gender, nothing else.
If you didn't know this - well - google it.

Just one of the so many researches and articles on the topic
http://www.independent.ie/life/why-women-are-still-earning-less-than-men-34123417.html
says women in Ireland are paid 14 percent on average for the same job comparing to men.

Closer to home, new Eurostat research currently puts the gender pay gap in Ireland at 14.4pc (calculated on gross hourly earnings of employees). That means that women, on average, work for 55 days unpaid per year, compared to men.

So even if women would get 1 day a month due to period pain and discomfort they would still have loads of days "working unpaid".

This is one version of what I meant when I said "society hates women" as we still did not go out of patriarchate it seems; even EU had to issue special orders that e.g. government has to have a certain percentage of women in them etc as women were not being given the opportunity or they were valued as less competent (bias based on gender also).

I purposely placed word "hate" in italic font, as it is an injustice that still exists today, well into 21st century.

You can chose to close the other eye too, will not make the things right unfortunately.

iDave · 29-03-2016 09:04PM

This should happen just for the seethe it would generate

One eyed Jack · 29-03-2016 09:23PM

Lavinia wrote: »

I understand your nick now, "one eyed" Jack... Don't get me wrong.

I don't think you do, but we'll get to that in a minute...

The fact is that woman are paid less for the same job - and this is discrimination based on gender, nothing else.
If you didn't know this - well - google it.

Just one of the so many researches and articles on the topic
http://www.independent.ie/life/why-women-are-still-earning-less-than-men-34123417.html
says women in Ireland are paid 14 percent on average for the same job comparing to men.

Closer to home, new Eurostat research currently puts the gender pay gap in Ireland at 14.4pc (calculated on gross hourly earnings of employees). That means that women, on average, work for 55 days unpaid per year, compared to men.

So even if women would get 1 day a month due to period pain and discomfort they would still have loads of days "working unpaid".

This is one version of what I meant when I said "society hates women" as we still did not go out of patriarchate it seems; even EU had to issue special orders that e.g. government has to have a certain percentage of women in them etc as women were not being given the opportunity or they were valued as less competent (bias based on gender also).

I could google, but this myth of a gender "pay gap" has been debunked to death numerous times already, in fact it was either this thread, or the other ongoing thread asking has feminism gone too far, that it was yet again debunked, but we'll get to feminism in a minute...

I purposely placed word "hate" in italic font, as it is an injustice that still exists today, well into 21st century.

Feminism, as I understand it (by all means correct me if I'm wrong), was started as a movement meant to empower women and give them choices, advocating for women's welfare and seeking equality in all areas where there was none. Modern feminism has sold you a pup. It has done nothing but enslave women and take their choice away from them, robbed them of their liberty and their ability to advocate for their own welfare. It's turned grown women into infantile children whose idea of equality is dragging everyone in society down to their level and making everyone as miserable as they are. I see modern feminism as a toxic, poisonous ideology that has done nothing to empower women, and left them feeling like they have none.

The patriarchy isn't the problem, in what is in fact a matriarchal society.

You can chose to close the other eye too, will not make the things right unfortunately.

Lavinia I could close both eyes, and I'd still only be blind in one of 'em, hence the username

Lavinia · 29-03-2016 09:38PM

Why inserting "feminism" in the discussion? Perhaps it helps you feel better, I can only guess. I would not put any etiquette on myself and if the issue is for men I'd say it equally regardless.

runawaybishop · 29-03-2016 09:49PM

Lavinia wrote: »

I understand your nick now, "one eyed" Jack... Don't get me wrong.

The fact is that woman are paid less for the same job - and this is discrimination based on gender, nothing else.
If you didn't know this - well - google it.

Just one of the so many researches and articles on the topic
http://www.independent.ie/life/why-women-are-still-earning-less-than-men-34123417.html
says women in Ireland are paid 14 percent on average for the same job comparing to men.

Closer to home, new Eurostat research currently puts the gender pay gap in Ireland at 14.4pc (calculated on gross hourly earnings of employees). That means that women, on average, work for 55 days unpaid per year, compared to men.

So even if women would get 1 day a month due to period pain and discomfort they would still have loads of days "working unpaid".

This is one version of what I meant when I said "society hates women" as we still did not go out of patriarchate it seems; even EU had to issue special orders that e.g. government has to have a certain percentage of women in them etc as women were not being given the opportunity or they were valued as less competent (bias based on gender also).

I purposely placed word "hate" in italic font, as it is an injustice that still exists today, well into 21st century.

You can chose to close the other eye too, will not make the things right unfortunately.

Bull**** article with incorrect statements of "facts". Women earn more than men until they start having kids and working less, then their income drops off. Do you expect someone who works less than someone else to earn more?

The gender pay gap is a moronic massaging of figures by agenda driven trolls and idiots lap it up every day.

Here are some facts, I don't need bold to pretend they are true.

More women go to 3rd level and graduate from it
More women gain employment afterwards and there are less unemployed women in general.
Women's salaries are higher by 1k a year in the first decade or so of employment.
There is a positive hiring bias towards women in the better paid industries, none for men and none in the lower paid male dominated industries.

But yeah, women are so weak and men hate their sisters, mothers, wives and daughters so much they discriminate against them, right?

Nope.
Women are less likely to promote another woman.
Women are more likely to bully other women in the workplace.

No one is out to get women, not in modern society. If you want to see real persecution go look farther east.

Lavinia · 29-03-2016 10:05PM

Kick as you like, but really better do a research for yourself. it is not just on "east" wherever it is you think of as "east" it is in Europe as well as in USA etc...

The gap is smaller than it was e.g. 50 years ago but is still there. And in reality it should not be.

start point
https://www.google.ie/search?q=women+paid+less&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=Du36Vrm9O8eNsAH0_YnYBg

runawaybishop · 29-03-2016 10:06PM

Lavinia wrote: »

Kick as you like, but really better do a research for yourself. it is not just on "east" wherever it is you think of as "east" it is in Europe as well as in USA etc...

The gap is smaller than it was e.g. 50 years ago but is still there. And in reality it should not be.

It's not. Get current.

Lavinia · 29-03-2016 10:23PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

It's not. Get current.

Currently in Ireland the gap is about 14 percent, in USA about 21 percent (for same jobs).

Figures from the OECD show that in Ireland the Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17% but this increases significantly to 14% for women with at least one child – a jump of 31 percentage points. The gender pay gap exists across the sectors. For the bottom 10% of earners, the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 4% but this rises to 24.6% for the top 10% of income earners, suggesting the continued presence of a glass ceiling and indirect discrimination.
NWCI has highlighted the Gender Pay Gap together with SIPTU on Gender Pay Day in February, a day which aims to highlight the amount of additional days a woman has to work so that her pay would be equal to a man’s pay.

runawaybishop · 29-03-2016 10:44PM

Lavinia wrote: »

Currently in Ireland the gap is about 14 percent, in USA about 21 percent (for same jobs).
Figures from the OECD show that in Ireland the Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17% but this increases significantly to 14% for women with at least one child – a jump of 31 percentage points. The gender pay gap exists across the sectors. For the bottom 10% of earners, the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 4% but this rises to 24.6% for the top 10% of income earners, suggesting the continued presence of a glass ceiling and indirect discrimination.
NWCI has highlighted the Gender Pay Gap together with SIPTU on Gender Pay Day in February, a day which aims to highlight the amount of additional days a woman has to work so that her pay would be equal to a man’s pay.

You completely failed to understand what you posted.

Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17%. What do you think this means?

One eyed Jack · 29-03-2016 10:51PM

Lavinia wrote: »

Why inserting "feminism" in the discussion? Perhaps it helps you feel better, I can only guess. I would not put any etiquette on myself and if the issue is for men I'd say it equally regardless.

Hold on, I didn't introduce feminism into the discussion at all. In fact I'd rather it was kept out of it as identity politics gives me a pain in my eye. However, when you introduce that tired old "pay gap" argument into the discussion that's the product of modern feminist driven ideology, that's you introducing feminism into the discussion.

Best thing you can do with that argument is take it out back and put it out of it's misery. You can take the cries of 'patriarchy' with it and all. Close the door behind you and don't let 'oppression' in!

I've said this before, there's neither an issue for men, nor is there an issue for women. Some people have issues, which is a different thing entirely, and so when Emma Watson invites men to the bosom of feminism to feel as vulnerable as they feel they are, I'm thinking to myself "Well, it's a nice offer Emma, but why the hell would I really want to?"

Seriously Lavinia, why would you want to be taking on someone else's problems when feminism has already gone TITSUP (you may want to google that), and you can't even get paid a day off work for your period pains. Like I said earlier - I'd pay you to take the day off, just so I wouldn't have to listen to it!

Lavinia · 29-03-2016 10:52PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

You completely failed to understand what you posted.

Gender Pay Gap for women with no children is -17%. What do you think this means?

I know what I posted and posted it purposely.

It says:

The latest figures from the EU Commission show that the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 13.9% - in other words women in Ireland are paid almost 14% less than men. The Gender Pay Gap exists even though women do better at school and university than men.
In the Irish context, what is perhaps most disturbing is the high cost of motherhood.

Peregrine · 29-03-2016 10:54PM

This thread has gone off-topic for the last two pages. Get back on topic please.

Mod

Electric Sex Pants · 30-03-2016 10:45AM

Lavinia wrote: »

I know what I posted and posted it purposely.

It says:
The latest figures from the EU Commission show that the Gender Pay Gap in Ireland is 13.9% - in other words women in Ireland are paid almost 14% less than men. The Gender Pay Gap exists even though women do better at school and university than men.
In the Irish context, what is perhaps most disturbing is the high cost of motherhood.

Sorry but you are just wrong, those figures do not take into account the different choices women make.

But to get back on topic, if this is brought in about period leave then a pay gap would be justified. As women clearly have some ridiculous idea in their head that the world is out to get them purely because they have a vagina, why wouldn't they take the extra days off a month, since in their mind they are paid less, the entire system is open to abuse and there would be no real way to prevent that.

Lux23 · 30-03-2016 10:48AM

I have never rang in sick with menstrual cramps because they were never that bad, but if they were I would have no problem taking the time off and getting a doctors note saying I was unable to work.

The first day of your period in work is the worst though, I can normally manage the pain with panadol but it doesn't stop me leaking through my clothes and feeling really uncomfortable.

Lavinia · 30-03-2016 11:21AM

Electric Sex Pants wrote: »

Sorry but you are just wrong, those figures do not take into account the different choices women make.

But to get back on topic, if this is brought in about period leave then a pay gap would be justified. As women clearly have some ridiculous idea in their head that the world is out to get them purely because they have a vagina, why wouldn't they take the extra days off a month, since in their mind they are paid less, the entire system is open to abuse and there would be no real way to prevent that.

In USA they did a research with loads or various parameters and it turned out that from approx 21 percent of difference when all other conditions are taken into account the figure goes down to about 5 to 6 percent but is still there.

Anyway I just said in relation to topic that since women are working seemingly some days for free in comparison to men it would be totally nice to give them a day per month that equals to 12 days a year of paid leave on account of period discomfort.

So obviously if this would go as a question on referendum I'd vote yes :-D
(btw I'd also vote for 12 months of maternity leave...)

I'll rest my case here :pac:

astrofool · 30-03-2016 11:57AM

pedroismyname wrote: »

Would it damage our competitiveness or would it mean that people would get paid less and/or more people would be hired?

It would damage our competiveness. See France for how their 35 hour week has limited FDI, while also seeing a generation of young people denied contracts for work to keep the older generation on excessive benefits.

The net cost to a company for an existing worker to be paid for a few extra hours is minimal vs. having to hire a whole other worker to fill in those hours. It also reduces employees to a sum total of hours worked, rather than what they contribute to the company, i.e. some people will get more work done in 2 hours than another might in a whole week, that person would usually (in a rational world) find themselves promoted or paid more. By having mandatory leave for periods, you're basically either asking the male workers to subsidise the female workers, or to mandate the females get paid 10% less (2 days out of 20 working days in a typical month) if they were working at the same contribution/hour than a similar male.

astrofool · 30-03-2016 12:00PM

Lavinia wrote: »

In USA they did a research with loads or various parameters and it turned out that from approx 21 percent of difference when all other conditions are taken into account the figure goes down to about 5 to 6 percent but is still there.

Anyway I just said in relation to topic that since women are working seemingly some days for free in comparison to men it would be totally nice to give them a day per month that equals to 12 days a year of paid leave on account of period discomfort.

So obviously if this would go as a question on referendum I'd vote yes :-D
(btw I'd also vote for 12 months of maternity leave...)

I'll rest my case here :pac:

I'd be much more in favour of pay equality for the same amount of contribution, then implementing inequality at the legislation level forever more by having females contribute less.

30-03-2016 12:23PM

Lavinia wrote: »

In USA they did a research with loads or various parameters and it turned out that from approx 21 percent of difference when all other conditions are taken into account the figure goes down to about 5 to 6 percent but is still there.

Anyway I just said in relation to topic that since women are working seemingly some days for free in comparison to men it would be totally nice to give them a day per month that equals to 12 days a year of paid leave on account of period discomfort.

So obviously if this would go as a question on referendum I'd vote yes :-D
(btw I'd also vote for 12 months of maternity leave...)

I'll rest my case here :pac:

You cannot be serious. Give women a day off a month because of the apparent wage gap? This is a massive step backwards for equality.

Broken Hearted Road · 30-03-2016 06:26PM

My period was a breeze when I was younger. I'm in my 30s now and in recent years, I'd say since my late 20s, they got a bit more difficult. Not the period itself but two weeks prior to it, I do suffer terrible cramps that has me up in the middle of the night and I get nauesa too. It could be early morning then by the time I would settle to sleep and then my alarm goes off. I never rang in sick, I have to get up and continue on but it can knock a lot out of me. My period is OK then. I'm more tired than usual and sometimes have a sore and stiff body like a flu and the extra maintaince for down below adds time to an already limited time to get out the door. Its very heavy for the first day or so where I have to wear both a tampon and a pad and I must not forget to bring my toiletry bag of supplies which has happened a few times.

A little flexibility would go down with me very well. Not so much as a day off but perhaps a later start time. Like an hour or two later.

Giving women time off for periods

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