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Giving women time off for periods

  • 23-03-2016 2:07pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭


    There seems to be a bit of talk brewing lately on the subject of women being allowed a couple days off a month. I have never heard of this before. How do you think this would affect the Irish work force if it were introduced here? or indeed would it have an affect?





    In Indonesia, under the Labor Act of 1948, women have a right to two days of menstrual leave per month.[9]

    In Japan, Article 68 of the Labour Standards Law states "When a woman for whom work during menstrual periods would be specially difficult has requested leave, the employer shall not employ such woman on days of the menstrual period."[10][11] While Japanese law requires that a woman going through especially difficult menstruation be allowed to take leave, it does not require companies to provide paid leave or extra pay for women who choose to work during menstruation.

    In Korea, not only are female employees entitled to menstrual leave according to the Article 71 of the Labour Standards Law,[12] but they are also ensured additional pay if they do not take the menstrual leave that they are entitled to.[13]

    The Philippines government considered the House Bill 4888, known as the Menstruation Leave Act of 2008, which was initiated by the Alliance of Rural Concern (ARC) representative. The bill aimed to grant mandatory menstruation leave to all private and government female employees, except those pregnant and menopausal, at half pay.[14]

    In Russia, a draft law was proposed in 2013 to give women two days paid leave per month during menstruation.[15]

    In Taiwan, the Act of Gender Equality in Employment gives women three days of "menstrual leave" per year, which will not be calculated toward the 30 days of "common sick leave", giving women up to 33 days of "health-related leaves" per year. The extra three days do not come with half-pays once a woman employee exceeds the regulated 30.[16]

    In Hong Kong, although the government has not enacted any law regarding menstrual leave yet, but some institutions and companies do have menstruation leave for female staff, sometimes a menstrual leave is applicable for female students.



    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/period-pain-leave-work-2639965-Mar2016/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/menstrual-leave-period-pain-womens-rights-a6907261.html

    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/mar/04/period-policy-asia-menstrual-leave-japan-women-work

    http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepage/news/6969716/UK-companys-new-period-policy-set-to-give-women-time-off-work-during-their-monthly-cycle.html


«134567

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,412 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    It's a bloody disgrace, Joe!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,383 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    I've been misled by these panty liner/tampon ads.

    How can they rollerblade and yet not be able to work?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    I can't say I'm in favour of that.
    I know that a lot of women can suffer rather badly from menstrual pain or related issues. Personally, I'm prone to migraines at certain points in my cycle. If they get too bad, I take a sick day, same as everyone else would. And I would do the same if I suffered from abdominal pains or cramps.

    If it was seriously chronic as I know it can be for some people, I think it ought to be treated like any other chronic condition, and the employer and individual employee should come up with an approach.
    I don't see why a condition should be treated different to another just because only women suffer from it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    I'm a woman almost to menopause, myself. When I was younger, I had some periods that were difficult and painful. The majority weren't. I had some friends for whom periods were usually difficult and painful. The majority were fine. Difficult and painful periods can be treated rather simply in most cases, and in the rest (fibroids or endometriosis) need more intervention.

    Menstruation doesn't usually stop women from being as productive as men at work. The implication that it does is just another way of pretending women aren't up to the job. In places where hormonal birth control (the most typical treatment for difficult and painful periods) is frowned upon or where the local religious fanatics are lobbying to do away with it, it's just another way of keeping women out of the workforce in general.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Straight Edge Punk


    In a previous job I had a lady took a day off every month, apparently it was a legal right and nobody every questioned her on it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭me_irl


    Birneybau wrote: »
    I've been misled by these panty liner/tampon ads.

    How can they rollerblade and yet not be able to work?

    Woooooaaaaaaah Bodyforrrrrm. Bodyforrrrrm for youuuuuu!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭HamsterFace


    Taking or being given time off isn't the right approach in my opinion. Rather an understanding that at times a female may need go rest for a while or even go home.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Ice Maiden


    First I heard of it too.

    I presume it wouldn't be a case of just automatic time off every time we get our period and would just be a case of leave being granted on a case by case basis for when a woman has an extremely bad period (causing agonising cramps and vomiting)?

    There would certainly be no cause for most women to need time off regularly for our periods - or at all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Once they don't all sync up and take off at the same time of the month


  • Posts: 24,714 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sure aren't most women on the pill anyway so no periods.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭mulbot


    As long as they give men time off for BlueBalls:eek: I'm all for it..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Taking or being given time off isn't the right approach in my opinion. Rather an understanding that at times a female may need go rest for a while or even go home.

    And they shouldn't read too much either. It dries up the ovaries and makes them unmarriageable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Sure aren't most women on the pill anyway so no periods.

    Huh? What weird kind of pills are you taking there?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    Wouldn't this just make it harder for smaller business, thus they'll try not to hire women


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Good Morning Holly:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭HamsterFace


    And they shouldn't read too much either. It dries up the ovaries and makes them unmarriageable.

    ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    ??

    Sorry, I thought we were back in the Victorian era there for a minute.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    In that clip, Holly made a valid point. Could we have a situation were it would be taken advantage of?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    If you're feeling sick enough to affect your work through no fault of your own, you need time off. The period thing is a red herring.*




    *Yes, I know.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Ice Maiden


    py2006 wrote: »
    In that clip, Holly made a valid point. Could we have a situation were it would be taken advantage of?
    Yes. Should it be implemented. There is always a minority that exploits.

    I don't think it should be implemented though. Sick leave for very severe periods and that's it, imo. And for doc/gyn visits re same.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭HamsterFace


    Sorry, I thought we were back in the Victorian era there for a minute.

    I probably didn't express myself too well because that's exactly what I didn't mean. Or maybe your comprehension skills aren't too great.

    What I meant was, we're all adults in the workplace and we know that women have periods which aren't shameful or disgusting but are natural and inevitable.

    And as such we can recognise that at times of the month a woman might need to take a rest or go home as they are physically sick. And they should be able to say so and their integrity respected.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,261 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Sure aren't most women on the pill anyway so no periods.

    I don't even know how to answer this. Are you being serious?


  • Posts: 24,714 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OSI wrote: »
    That's not how most contraceptive pills work.
    Shenshen wrote: »
    Huh? What weird kind of pills are you taking there?

    Women I've known on it certainly haven't had them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭HamsterFace


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    I don't even know how to answer this. Are you being serious?

    Leave the loveen alone, he's on holidays :-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    Ice Maiden wrote: »
    Yes. Should it be implemented. There is always a minority that exploits.

    True, but the minority in the case could be 1000s?

    I'm sure it would come in handy for the odd hangover day :P

    If I am being honest I prob would be tempted by an odd day myself (not that I get periods :-/ ) although my concern would be that it would be held against me should promotion or pay rise come up in future.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    People I've known on it certainly haven't had them.

    I googled it - there seems to be a certain pill out there that can delay periods, and some one or two that will reduce the number of periods a woman has each year. From what I can tell, these aren't licensed in Ireland, though?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Women I've known on it certainly haven't had them.

    Women in Thailand?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Do you take it away from them again when they hit menopause? Is there some kind of obligation to announce your menopause? What about women with irregular cycles? Or very very irregular cycles?

    Do you have to provide proof that you're having a period? What (body)form would that take?

    Sooo many questions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,264 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Women I've known on it certainly haven't had them.

    It's called menopause


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I wouldn't dismiss it. Everyone is different. I remember being in school and my best friend would go home every single month, she'd be sent home sick the first day of her period and you wouldn't see her the second day. Absolute dosser, I thought. I got no period pain and didn't understand.

    Roll on a few years, and I changed my tune. I was cramping for about a week beforehand, I was very uncomfortable but it was bearable. Until it started. I was in Dublin one day, it started, and I ended up passing out on the train home. I'd get the shakes, I'd be vomitting, I'd have a temperature, couldn't eat, couldn't keep anything down. Went on the pill and it regulated it a bit.

    But at the time it was so bad I would be hard pressed to get out of bed never mind go to work.

    Now it's fine and if period days were brought in, I personally wouldnt need them anymore but there was a time where I would. I wouldn't judge other women for taking sick days on their period either, and I say that as a manager of all female employees


  • Posts: 24,714 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I googled it - there seems to be a certain pill out there that can delay periods, and some one or two that will reduce the number of periods a woman has each year. From what I can tell, these aren't licensed in Ireland, though?

    I was under the impression they totally stop it but maybe I was wrong. Still I haven't seen the people I've know well enough to know they were on it to ever need tampons etc while on it which was why I had the impression they didn't have periods while on it, not exactly something I would have been researching.

    Don't remember a different pill being taken either certain weeks, always from the same packet and the same colour pill.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I googled it - there seems to be a certain pill out there that can delay periods, and some one or two that will reduce the number of periods a woman has each year. From what I can tell, these aren't licensed in Ireland, though?

    Some BCPs do make your periods lighter... not that light, though. A lot of women don't use tampons anyway; the moon cup enables you to go up to 12 hours without having to attend to yourself. Since the typical workday is only about 8 to 10 hours, it makes no difference to most women in most jobs whether they are having a period or not.

    It is possible, incidentally, to take ordinary BCPs in such a way that periods don't happen for months at a time. They're not real periods that you have on BCPs anyway, just withdrawal bleeds. The fact that you could take BCPs in such a way as to mimic a natural monthly cycle was one of the workarounds that early developers used to make them more palatable to women and to the establishment. But there's absolutely no problem, provided it is OK with a woman and her health team, in just skipping the week of different-colored pills and starting a new pack right away.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,241 ✭✭✭✭Kovu


    Women I've known on it certainly haven't had them.

    It's different for everyone but it certainly won't go away completely on 'the pill'.
    Yasmin for example has three weeks on the pill, then one off to allow the period. You can continue taking the pill to 'skip' a period one month but you'll get it at some point.

    Nice ninja edit changing 'people' to 'women' btw. :P

    I don't think it should be seen as different to sick leave, I certainly wouldn't like the whole office knowing I was away because of it. I'd rather just have them as sick days or if really bad every month, get a doctor to write me up something and could explain it to the boss if needed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    There are some pills that cause periods to stop completely for some women. Its not a guarantee that all women will be affected the same way.

    The mirena coil may also stop periods completely - again dependent on the individual woman in question.

    Most pills do not have this effect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I googled it - there seems to be a certain pill out there that can delay periods, and some one or two that will reduce the number of periods a woman has each year. From what I can tell, these aren't licensed in Ireland, though?

    Nah, some (yasmin for example) weaken the period so it can often be unnoticeable.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    *Closes eyes while typing*


    Can we get back to how this, if implemented here, may have an affect on the work force?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    What effect could it possibly have? Women who can work will work, or risk being called on the carpet for excessive absenteeism. Women who can't work will take time off like they currently do with sick leave. If employers don't give enough sick leave, then that's another question.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    Speedwell wrote: »
    What effect could it possibly have? Women who can work will work, or risk being called on the carpet for excessive absenteeism. Women who can't work will take time off like they currently do with sick leave. If employers don't give enough sick leave, then that's another question.

    I think this is separate to sick leave, it is actually and extra 2 paid days off a month. Unless I read it wrong?


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 976 ✭✭✭beach_walker


    How about we have a system where if you're too sick to work, then you don't. Man or woman. For heavy and repeated chronic conditions, a doctor could provide a cert.

    Wait, we already have that!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Ice Maiden


    py2006 wrote: »
    *Closes eyes while typing*


    Can we get back to how this, if implemented here, may have an affect on the work force?
    Huh? If people avail of it, the workforce will be down resources. What exactly are you trying to gauge? :confused:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Ice Maiden


    py2006 wrote: »
    I think this is separate to sick leave, it is actually and extra 2 paid days off a month. Unless I read it wrong?
    Is it automatic? In which case there would be no taking advantage, if it just applies anyway. No need for it though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    Ice Maiden wrote: »
    Huh? If people avail of it, the workforce will be down resources. What exactly are you trying to gauge? :confused:

    Just getting opinions is all. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,762 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    It's a bit stupid to give people days off automatically for anything. I mean, can i have a couple of Mondays off because I'm naturally going to have a hangover...?!

    If you're sick, for whatrever reason, phone in sick.

    (I could also see potential discrimination problems here where employers will favour men simply because they're not going to need the extra days off)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Ice Maiden


    py2006 wrote: »
    Just getting opinions is all. :)
    But people did give opinions. As for affecting the workforce, yes, they would be down staff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    (I could also see potential discrimination problems here where employers will favour men simply because they're not going to need the extra days off)

    Maternity Leave?

    (it already fosters discrimination but usually unprovable).


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, it might make women less employable again, like back when women were seen to be a liability once they married, because they'd go off having babies.

    That aside, if a woman's periods are severe enough to prevent her working, that's a medical condition and can be certified. By all means give her time off. But in general? What madness is this?!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Ice Maiden


    As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, it might make women less employable again, like back when women were seen to be a liability once they married, because they'd go off having babies.

    That aside, if a woman's periods are severe enough to prevent her working, that's a medical condition and can be certified. By all means give her time off. But in general? What madness is this?!
    One that isn't actually happening, but I think someone may be trying to turn it into a reality of doom exploited by unscrupulous women. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,402 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Thoie wrote: »
    Do you take it away from them again when they hit menopause? Is there some kind of obligation to announce your menopause?

    I'm thinking some sort of a regular update could be provided , like a newsletter.
    It could be circulated to all employees, so they are aware of their colleagues' availability.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    I don't know how useful it would be. It seems that women who always get painful periods are in a minority, and painful periods are not the norm for most other women. That would mean that most the time women are just fine working during their period. It's seems a bit draconian to send every woman home for two days each month if they don't need to.

    If women are having a particularly bad period they should be able to go to their employer and take a sick day. That's what sick days are for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    py2006 wrote: »
    I think this is separate to sick leave, it is actually and extra 2 paid days off a month. Unless I read it wrong?

    In one of your examples (the Philippines) - the draft law proposed mandatory leave.
    In another (Korea - I'm assuming South Korea) women would be paid extra if they chose not to avail of the optional leave.
    In the others, as best I can tell, the leave is optional and can be taken as required. So essentially it is sick leave, but presumably just an extra allowance to the maximum sick leave that can be claimed.


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