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Indo article about experience with Hungarian dental clinic

«13

Comments

  • #2
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    Worthwhile article by Ed Finn about his experiences in going to Hungary for dental treatment:

    http://www.independent.ie/life/travel/europe/city-of-smiles-how-dental-central-budapest-saved-me-17500-34565772.html

    It's an ad placed by Mary Flanagan (agent) to drum up business, there was another one last week and ads on TV over weekend.

    Why don't you put an article in about your own treatment/experience "My treatment failed after two years, I had to go back and pay again, but I didn't mind"?


  • #3
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    davo10 wrote: »
    It's an ad placed by Mary Flanagan (agent) to drum up business, there was another one last week and ads on TV over weekend.

    How do you know its an ad? It just looks like a regular article.


  • #4
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    How do you know its an ad? It just looks like a regular article.

    It's the same article reproduced each time with a different name, 24 crowns?

    Mary Flanagan, the Irish agent for Kreativ actually wrote a whole story and posted it on here under a different name, asking people to PM here for details, she didn't tell the readers that she gains financially from everyone she signs up for treatment. Also on her Facebook page, she lifted before and after photos from the website of an Irish dentist who contributes to this forum, and made up a whole back story and claimed the treatment was done in Hungary.

    Google "Tibor dental" and "Borbath dentist high court" if you want the reality of Irish patients treated abroad.

    http://www.dentalcouncil.ie/files/Dr Csaba Borbath - Erasure - 15 Feb 2016.pdf


  • #5
    groovyg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    It cropped up on my fb newsfeed earlier, one poster put up the following article in the comments http://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/the-high-cost-of-cutprice-dentistry-30354219.html and Mary Flanagan responded with the following
    Mary Flanagan Hi Joe, please read this article..., not all clinics abroad are similiar,as not all clinics in Ireland are similiar.., AT A RECENT DENTAL SUMMIT IN LONDON, KREATIV DENTAL CLINIC HAS BEEN VOTED THE BEST DENTAL CLINIC IN EUROPE AND 2ND WORLDWIDE..., A CLINIC IN MAYALASIA BEAT US.., Best Regards..., Mary

    I can't believe people gamble like this especially with their teeth, complete madness.


  • #6
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    groovyg wrote: »
    It cropped up on my fb newsfeed earlier, one poster put up the following article in the comments http://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/the-high-cost-of-cutprice-dentistry-30354219.html and Mary Flanagan responded with the following



    I can't believe people gamble like this especially with their teeth, complete madness.

    iirc, i think Kreativ were one of the sponsors of the awards..


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  • #7
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    davo10 wrote: »
    It's the same article reproduced each time with a different name, 24 crowns?

    Mary Flanagan, the Irish agent for Kreativ actually wrote a whole story and posted it on here under a different name, asking people to PM here for details, she didn't tell the readers that she gains financially from everyone she signs up for treatment. Also on her Facebook page, she lifted before and after photos from the website of an Irish dentist who contributes to this forum, and made up a whole back story and claimed the treatment was done in Hungary.

    Google "Tibor dental" and "Borbath dentist high court" if you want the reality of Irish patients treated abroad.

    http://www.dentalcouncil.ie/files/Dr%20Csaba%20Borbath%20-%20Erasure%20-%2015%20Feb%202016.pdf

    Ed Finn is, as far as I know, a reputable freelance journalist. Are you suggesting that the facts of this article are fabricated?


  • #8
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    davo10 wrote: »
    It's the same article reproduced each time with a different name, 24 crowns?

    Ive done a bit of as search there and I cant find the same article produced at all.

    Do you have links to the different versions of it?

    Im just curious to know how I would recognise by reading that article that its actually an advertisement. Im not seeing it.


  • #9
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Ive done a bit of as search there and I cant find the same article produced at all.

    Do you have links to the different versions of it?

    Im just curious to know how I would recognise by reading that article that its actually an advertisement. Im not seeing it.

    I haven't read the article but they are always the same, is there a box with "things to do in Budapest" and a list of hotels/flights, the type of stuff a patient wouldn't write but a advertiser would.

    The articles appear every couple of months and coincide with TV ads, there were a few on over the weekend, one I think at half time of Irish match.


  • #10
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    Ed Finn is, as far as I know, a reputable freelance journalist. Are you suggesting that the facts of this article are fabricated?

    I haven't a clue who Ed Finn is, the articles at the same, outline treatment, advertise clinic, a piece by Mary Flanagan, a bit advertising hotels and the flights.

    I haven't read this article, was it in th main paper or was it in the weekend/travel/ad section where these usually are?

    Edit: I've just read it, in the "Travel" section, I would have thought that a serious article would be in the Health or Consumer section, I hate to break it to you, but articles in the Travel section advertise travel.


  • #11
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    davo10 wrote: »
    I haven't read the article but they are always the same, is there a box with "things to do in Budapest" and a list of hotels/flights, the type of stuff a patient wouldn't write but a advertiser would.

    Well its not really any different to any of their travel articles, a bit about the city and things to do, flight info etc... Just that this article is specifically about dental tourism.

    They do mention Kreativ but also tell where you can find other clinics to choose from.

    If you havent even read it I feel a bit like Im reading it to you here!

    You still havent answered my question though, despite me asking it twice - how would one know that this is an advertisement rather than just an article.

    Nor have you provided links to any of the other ones you keep saying are the same?


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  • #12
    groovyg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    He had his whole mouth reconstruction done at Kreativ dental which he mentions at the bottom of the article - I think its pretty clear he is advertising the services of kreativ dental clinic.
    24 crowns though and he calls it a dental holiday!:eek:


  • #13
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    groovyg wrote: »
    He had his whole mouth reconstruction done at Kreativ dental which he mentions at the bottom of the article - I think its pretty clear he is advertising the services of kreativ dental clinic.
    24 crowns though and he calls it a dental holiday!:eek:

    Im not saying he isnt advertising it. Im asking how the poster knows that it is a paid for advertisement. They also mention Aerlingus, Ryanair and Danubius hotels - so are they part of the advertisement as well?

    The poster seems to have a lot of detail and is making very solid assertions, yet hasnt produced any proof about it.

    Maybe all articles written by the Irish Times are paid for advertisements, I dont know.

    But if you say its a paid for advertisement and the same article as lots of others just with the name changed then Id like to see links.

    Its hardly too much to ask someone to back up what they are saying?


  • #14
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Well its not really any different to any of their travel articles, a bit about the city and things to do, flight info etc... Just that this article is specifically about dental tourism.

    They do mention Kreativ but also tell where you can find other clinics to choose from.

    If you havent even read it I feel a bit like Im reading it to you here!

    You still havent answered my question though, despite me asking it twice - how would one know that this is an advertisement rather than just an article.

    Nor have you provided links to any of the other ones you keep saying are the same?

    How do I know it's an advertisement? Because it is advertising a particular clinic, and the agent for that Clinic, Mary Flanagan writes a paragraph advertising Kreativ, and it's in the Travel section rather than in the health/consumer/main editorial part of paper. C'mon, did you think Krativ were that lucky to have a journo write about them in the Tavel section?

    Do your own research about previous articles or better still, go on Facebook and ask Mary to email you previous media articles.


  • #15
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    davo10 wrote: »
    How do I know it's an advertisement? Because it is advertising a particular clinic, and the agent for that Clinic, Mary Flanagan writes a paragraph advertising Kreativ, and it's in the Travel section rather than in the health/consumer/main editorial part of paper. C'mon, did you think Krativ were that lucky to have a journo write about them in the Tavel section?

    I am asking how you know all of the above though?

    I dunno if the clinic were lucky enough to have a journo write about them, I see lots of articles by journalists that discuss consumer or health items, I dont know who pays for what?
    davo10 wrote: »
    Do your own research about previous articles or better still, go on Facebook and ask Mary to email you previous media articles.

    I did do research, and I didnt find any articles.

    However, as you are the one who made the assertion, you are the one who should be able to back it up.

    If you cant, then Ill just assume its a normal article like any other.


  • #16
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    I am asking how you know all of the above though?

    I dunno if the clinic were lucky enough to have a journo write about them, I see lots of articles by journalists that discuss consumer or health items, I dont know who pays for what?



    I did do research, and I didnt find any articles.

    However, as you are the one who made the assertion, you are the one who should be able to back it up.

    If you cant, then Ill just assume its a normal article like any other.

    How many articles on health appear in the Travel section?

    I've just been PM'd that the link above is not the full article which appeared in the Indo at the weekend, there was another part advertising the Clinic written by Mary Flanagan on the page with this article. That is how this works. It is a normal article like any other, advertising travel and a particular dental clinic.


  • #17
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    davo10 wrote: »
    How many articles on health appear in the Travel section?

    I've just been PM'd that the link above is not the full article which appeared in the Indo at the weekend, there was another part advertising the Clinic written by Mary Flanagan on the page with this article. That is how this works. It is a normal article like any other, advertising travel and a particular dental clinic.

    I dont know - I cant say I keep a tally of articles written in the Travel section?

    Ah, so youve been making a case about something that doesnt appear in the linked article at all. No wonder Ive been confused.

    Can you see how any ordinary individual like myself would look at that linked article and wonder where you were coming up with all your detailed assertions?

    It never hurts to ask someone to back their assertions.


  • #18
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    I dont know - I cant say I keep a tally of articles written in the Travel section?

    Ah, so youve been making a case about something that doesnt appear in the linked article at all. No wonder Ive been confused.

    Can you see how any ordinary individual like myself would look at that linked article and wonder where you were coming up with all your detailed assertions?

    It never hurts to ask someone to back their assertions.

    Sorry for delay in getting back to you, off hand I can remember the snooker player Ken Doherty having an article in the paper about treatment abroad (Kreativ) Mary and Kreativ were advertised along side it, also there was an article about Amanda Brunker (not certain but it was one of the z listers) who had treatment abroad (Kreativ) Mary and Kreativ were advertised along side it, pretty much the same articles as Ed/Mary/Kreativ.


  • #19
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    And are these people actually getting the treatment or just saying they did?


  • #20
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    davo10 wrote: »
    I haven't read the article but they are always the same, is there a box with "things to do in Budapest" and a list of hotels/flights, the type of stuff a patient wouldn't write but a advertiser would.

    The articles appear every couple of months and coincide with TV ads, there were a few on over the weekend, one I think at half time of Irish match.

    From 5000km away you still can't mistake the sound of furious back-peddling!!!

    "I haven't read the article" - Pull the other one, there's bells on it


  • #21
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »
    From 5000km away you still can't mistake the sound of furious back-peddling!!!

    "I haven't read the article" - Pull the other one, there's bells on it

    I hadn't read anything until you posted the link (thank you, I always enjoy our banter, particularly when you deny having to have the treatment redone even though you posted about the 10 days you had to spend there a few years later, and had to pay, on another thread).
    I still haven't read the newspaper article, I didn't get the Indo on Saturday, but I have been told that the link you provided is only part of the article which appeared on that newspaper page. The rest was the usual from Mary advertising/about Kreativ, which is kinda coincidental as the writer had the treatment where? Yip Kreativ.


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  • #22
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    And are these people actually getting the treatment or just saying they did?

    They felt compelled to write articles about how good their treatment was, accompanied of course with ads for the clinic/flight details/hotels etc. Effectively these are testimonials placed in the papers by Kreativ to encourage business, Mary always has her number where patients can contact her.

    If you read the articles in the media about the dispute between Vogue Williams and Seapoint Dental, what you learn is that she received a discount on her treatment in return for writing a few articles/blogs/tweets about how happy she was. Of course it went pear shaped and the arrangement was laid bare.


  • #23
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    davo10 wrote: »
    They felt compelled to write articles about how good their treatment was, accompanied of course with ads for the clinic/flight details/hotels etc. Effectively these are testimonials placed in the papers by Kreativ to encourage business, Mary always has her number where patients can contact her.

    So you think they did get the treatment? What do you mean they felt compelled, I thought you said it was an advertisement?

    Plenty of businesses have testimonials on their websites, it's not really that unusual is it?

    And from what you are saying every article in the travel section is an advertisement so that's not really too unusual either.

    Is there something wrong with advertising for business? I often hear ads on the radio for plastic surgery, hair restoration, even (bizarrely) baby ear piercing! I don't see a problem with it myself.

    Vogue williams, that wasn't dental tourism though, that was a Dublin clinic wasn't it?


  • #24
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    So you think they did get the treatment? What do you mean they felt compelled, I thought you said it was an advertisement?

    Plenty of businesses have testimonials on their websites, it's not really that unusual is it?

    And from what you are saying every article in the travel section is an advertisement so that's not really too unusual either.

    Is there something wrong with advertising for business? I often hear ads on the radio for plastic surgery, hair restoration, even (bizarrely) baby ear piercing! I don't see a problem with it myself.

    There is nothing at all wrong with advertising, I never said there was. In fact there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with that article, it's good advertising. But that is what it is, an ad, if it was not an advertisement it would have been in the health or consumer section and it wouldn't have a large additional piece written by the Irish agent advertising the clinic.


  • #25
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    So what's the issue then?


  • #26
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    So what's the issue then?

    There isn't one, you asked "How do you know it's an ad, it looks like a regular article" and I replied. The link provided by the op is only part of what appeared on the paper page. Simples.


  • #27
    groovyg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    intheclouds wrote: »
    So what's the issue then?

    After reading this thread earlier Kreativ come across as really shady
    Mary flanagan posted up as OConnom posing as someone who got dental treatment when in fact she was promoting the clinic she works for

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526627&page=7

    Later in that thread the moderator posted up photos that were on Kreativ web site that had been taken from their website, one photo was that of their mother

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526627&page=8

    The owner of Kreativ has been responding to any negative comments posed on FB under that article as well.

    If it's too good to be true it usually is..


  • #28
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    davo10 wrote: »
    There isn't one, you asked "How do you know it's an ad, it looks like a regular article" and I replied. The link provided by the op is only part of what appeared on the paper page. Simples.

    Good stuff.


  • #29
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    intheclouds wrote: »
    Good stuff.

    Thank you. The other articles were by Maura Durrane, Lisa Murphy and Ken Doherty. You can draw your own conclusion.


  • #30
    Hillmanhunter1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Hillmanhunter1


    davo10 wrote: »
    I hadn't read anything until you posted the link (thank you, I always enjoy our banter, particularly when you deny having to have the treatment redone even though you posted about the 10 days you had to spend there a few years later, and had to pay, on another thread).
    I still haven't read the newspaper article, I didn't get the Indo on Saturday, but I have been told that the link you provided is only part of the article which appeared on that newspaper page. The rest was the usual from Mary advertising/about Kreativ, which is kinda coincidental as the writer had the treatment where? Yip Kreativ.

    This is one of those delicious "hoisted by his own petard" situations.

    Either you had read the link when you posted "It's the same article reproduced each time with a different name" and you are spoofing when you now say that you hadn't,
    or
    You never read the link but you spoofed about knowing what the article was about.

    Either way, the common theme is spoofing!


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  • #31
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    groovyg wrote: »
    After reading this thread earlier Kreativ come across as really shady
    Mary flanagan posted up as OConnom posing as someone who got dental treatment when in fact she was promoting the clinic she works for

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526627&page=7

    Later in that thread the moderator posted up photos that were on Kreativ web site that had been taken from their website, one photo was that of their mother

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526627&page=8

    The owner of Kreativ has been responding to any negative comments posed on FB under that article as well.

    If it's too good to be true it usually is..

    Lol that's pretty funny.

    Yer woman has great teeth in her FB profile mind you, good ad for the place.


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