Navan railway line

Stephen15 · 19-03-2016 07:00PM #1

Why can't a passenger station be opened on this line. I know they have plans to extend the m3 line to there but surely a better more cost effective solution would be to run trains on the current stretch of track to navan a system. What they could do is run an ordinary 8 carriage dundalk commuter as far as drogheda and split the train there with four carriages going to dundalk and four to navan I know that system is used in England.

Cravens · 19-03-2016 08:41PM

Impossible, I'm afraid Stephen. The line to Navan splits off before the platform at Drogheda, so the only way the splitting of a train could work is for the train to split in Laytown. But the restoration of the old Navan line for passenger traffic might be more cost-effective that re-building the M3 line (which is off the table now due to the EC cutting funding for it).

Del.Monte · 19-03-2016 08:49PM

Cravens wrote: »

Impossible, I'm afraid Stephen. The line to Navan splits off before the platform at Drogheda, so the only way the splitting of a train could work is for the train to split in Laytown. But the restoration of the old Navan line for passenger traffic might be more cost-effective that re-building the M3 line (which is off the table now due to the EC cutting funding for it).

I'd say the cancelling of the extension of the line from M3 has more to do with Noel Dempsey and the other cretins who allowed roads to be built across the route on the level than the EU. The Drogheda/Navan line was always the obvious link but this is Ireland and we don't do planning or jointed-up thinking.

Stephen15 · 19-03-2016 08:51PM

Cravens wrote: »

Impossible, I'm afraid Stephen. The line to Navan splits off before the platform at Drogheda, so the only way the splitting of a train could work is for the train to split in Laytown. But the restoration of the old Navan line for passenger traffic might be more cost-effective that re-building the M3 line (which is off the table now due to the EC cutting funding for it).

Yes but you could have trains going backwards as far as the junction or as you say split them at laytown don't see why not

Victor · 20-03-2016 01:17AM

Cravens wrote: »

Impossible, I'm afraid Stephen. The line to Navan splits off before the platform at Drogheda, so the only way the splitting of a train could work is for the train to split in Laytown.

Not ideal, but you could have a driver platform immediately south of Drogheda.

But the restoration of the old Navan line for passenger traffic might be more cost-effective that re-building the M3 line

The dominant passenger flow from Navan will always be to Dublin, sending Navan-Dublin passengers via Drogheda means an unacceptably long journey time.

(which is off the table now due to the EC cutting funding for it).

Who?

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'd say the cancelling of the extension of the line from M3 has more to do with Noel Dempsey and the other cretins who allowed roads to be built across the route on the level

As best I known, there is no such impediment. Competition between an underused motorway and an unbuilt railway is another matter.

cgcsb · 21-03-2016 03:00PM

opposition to extending M3 to Navan will always point to low patronage on the M3. But of course traffic on the M3 is not why the line is needed. The line is needed because of the daily madness between Cabra Cross and the City Centre.

Before a railway extension to Navan though, there needs to be electrification and resolving of the level crossing issue on the Maynooth line. I'd also argue that the Clonsilla-Dunboyne section could be replaced by a new line breaking off after Navan Rd parkway and stopping at Conolly Hospital, Blanch SC, Mulhuddart, Damastown IP, Clonee and Dunboyne. That way you'll get Blanchardstown well served by rail and provide relief to the Navan Road.

Grandeeod · 21-03-2016 04:36PM

Victor wrote: »

As best I known, there is no such impediment.

There's a few.

Blackbull. The Trim road was realigned across it. This is the view towards Navan.

BLACKBULL.jpg

Drumree. The new R125 was slapped across it. This is the view towards Dublin.

DRUMREE.jpg

Cannistown. Despite the "box" structure, the realigned road was laid across it. In fact the box structure under the M3 is at a vastly different grade to the alignment in the area. In this pic the line used to run right to left towards navan on an embankment.

CANNISTOWN.jpg

Vic_08 · 21-03-2016 04:43PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

There's a few.

Blackbull. The Trim road was realigned across it. This is the view towards Navan.

BLACKBULL.jpg

Drumree. The new R125 was slapped across it. This is the view towards Dublin.

DRUMREE.jpg

Cannistown. Despite the "box" structure, the realigned road was laid across it. In fact the box structure under the M3 is at a vastly different grade to the alignment in the area. In this pic the line used to run right to left towards navan on an embankment.

CANNISTOWN.jpg

Didn't Meath CC also lay pipes on part of the alignment as well?

Grandeeod · 21-03-2016 04:46PM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Didn't Meath CC also lay pipes on part of the alignment as well?

Yea. A sewer main in the Dunsaney area. Would need to be moved.

All this was discussed at length on boards so I was a little surprised when Victor claimed there were no impediments. Unless I have misunderstood him.

Del.Monte · 21-03-2016 04:51PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Yea. A sewer main in the Dunsaney area. Would need to be moved.

All this was discussed at length on boards so I was a little surprised when Victor claimed there were no impediments. Unless I have misunderstood him.

I was waiting for you to post on this but it seems other people have very short memories.

Seanmk1 · 21-03-2016 06:27PM

Regarding Navan to Dublin via Drogheda. The Enterprise service currently takes between 34 minutes and 42 minutes to do Drogheda to Connolly. Navan to Drogheda shouldn't take more than half an hour. This would give a Navan-Dublin journey time of about 60 to 70 minutes.

The bus currently takes about 80 to 90 minutes depending on traffic. My guess would be that driving in the rush hour would take longer than the bus.

So if all the other requirements fall into place, i.e. upgrade of Navan track, re-instatement of the Drogheda platform, Northern Line capacity, Connolly capacity etc. etc. the train could bring benefits for the good people of Navan.

It's a lot of ifs, but I think that it would be worth a go.

Incidentally, does anyone know what the timetable was for the Navan GAA specials that ran in the 1990s?

trellheim · 21-03-2016 07:13PM

theres a youtube of one of them somewhere that might give you that.

dowlingm · 23-03-2016 02:39AM

Considering the unstaffed manual level crossings and so on, and Platin cement being closed, completing the Pace-Navan railway to take passenger AND Tara traffic would be an operational boon for the Northern line by getting that slower traffic off it and make Tara traffic more efficient by not having to stop to open and shut gates. it might have been done already if Meath Council hadn't fecked a water? pipe down on the old alignment and Noel Dempsey hadn't inexplicably ignored it while in Cabinet

Victor · 23-03-2016 08:23AM

Grandeeod wrote: »

There's a few.

No fundamental impediment.

Carawaystick · 24-03-2016 03:14PM

dowlingm wrote: »

Considering the unstaffed manual level crossings and so on, and Platin cement being closed, completing the Pace-Navan railway to take passenger AND Tara traffic would be an operational boon for the Northern line by getting that slower traffic off it and make Tara traffic more efficient by not having to stop to open and shut gates. it might have been done already if Meath Council hadn't fecked a water? pipe down on the old alignment and Noel Dempsey hadn't inexplicably ignored it while in Cabinet

Would trains run at 100kmh on any rebuilt Navan line? Because Irish rail could run a coach service from M3parkway to Navan @100kmh and be able to serve those parts of Navan town away north and east of the Boyne, unlike a train with a fixed destination in Navan.

end of the road · 24-03-2016 03:25PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

Would trains run at 100kmh on any rebuilt Navan line? Because Irish rail could run a coach service from M3parkway to Navan @100kmh and be able to serve those parts of Navan town away north and east of the Boyne, unlike a train with a fixed destination in Navan.

if built properly and a decent alinement sorted out, i wouldn't see why it couldn't be built to something near 100 kph. by building that line they could potentially take some of those coaches and cars off the road which would be a good thing.

Victor · 24-03-2016 07:42PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

Would trains run at 100kmh on any rebuilt Navan line? Because Irish rail could run a coach service from M3parkway to Navan @100kmh and be able to serve those parts of Navan town away north and east of the Boyne, unlike a train with a fixed destination in Navan.

The plan for Navan was 90mph (145 km/h). The section to M3 Parkway can do this, although it is limited to 70 mph for maintenance reasons - and most of the trains used can't do 90mph.

Grandeeod · 24-03-2016 10:36PM

Victor wrote: »

No fundamental impediment.

I'm disappointed by that response. It could apply to putting astronauts on the Sun.:rolleyes:

Losty Dublin · 25-03-2016 12:39AM

Seanmk1 wrote: »

The bus currently takes about 80 to 90 minutes depending on traffic. My guess would be that driving in the rush hour would take longer than the bus....

There's some rush hour limited stop buses from Dublin to Navan that take under an hour. A train would probably beat that but is it needed on the route based on loadings?

lucernarian · 27-03-2016 11:45AM

I've been told by staff in Drogheda that much of the Navan branch had been relaid during the Celtic Tiger days and that most of it is actually ready for 70 mph running. I think there would be level crossing issues and some small-scale replacement track issues, along with (IMO) a very useful reopening of Duleek station and a building of a 4-car platform for the branch at Drogheda station. Move the signal cabin out of the way and claim some of the car park and bingo, a limited service but at a far lower cost that would deliver Navan to Dublin in an hour. See how demand goes and then there's an extra case for building a proper line to Navan over the next 15 years.

It's criminal how the N3 was built without some land take for the railway near Dunshaughlin considering how far away the old alignment is.

And from my experience living near and travelling through Meath, it's hard to underestimate the general incompetency of Meath Co. Co. compared to other county councils. Where national secondary roads still stop at T junctions with local roads and they couldn't manage a successful planning application for the replacement route for a 300 year old bridge. Never mind water pipes on train alignments

Carawaystick · 27-03-2016 10:39PM

I presume that's the rail alignment crossing the r125 sw of Dunseaghlin where the road is a new build high on an embankment? With no underbridge?

Losty Dublin · 28-03-2016 03:37PM

Carawaystick wrote: »

I presume that's the rail alignment crossing the r125 sw of Dunseaghlin where the road is a new build high on an embankment? With no underbridge?

At the time of planning the M3 route there was serious talk of aligning the Navan line closer towards Dunshaughlin and even of it going around the town on it's northern side. Perhaps that's why no under bridge was allowed for.

Grandeeod · 28-03-2016 08:37PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

At the time of planning the M3 route there was serious talk of aligning the Navan line closer towards Dunshaughlin and even of it going around the town on it's northern side. Perhaps that's why no under bridge was allowed for.

That particular issue never got any further than local councillors. Despite that, the route you are talking about was part of a "route selection" process. It provides absolutely no excuse to the original route being compromised by the M3.

webwayz · 21-06-2016 01:05PM

I think while the Navan-Drogheda line is there, it should be used.
There used to be GAA Specials - why not this weekend for Dublin v Meath (26/6/16) there be a train from Navan to Dublin (and back), there used to be such in the 1990's. They could even stop in Clontarf/Fairview within walking distance of Croker.

In the distant past there used to be GAA Specials to Croke Park, from the South West using the Phoenix Park tunnel for big match days.

dowlingm · 14-08-2016 02:37PM

Back then IE probably employed crossing staff, unlike now where 071s with 750 tons or whatever behind have to stop and go...

metrovick001 · 15-08-2016 10:24PM

No crossing keepers on the Navan branch for a long time, a staff member travelled out to Beauparc & operated the gate on the last two specials (1991 & 1996).

Del.Monte · 16-08-2016 10:20AM

Stephen15 · 16-08-2016 05:00PM

How about they build a train station in navan and run rush hour services from connolly that go to Navan in the meantime before the m3 parkway line is complete.

Del.Monte · 16-08-2016 07:22PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

How about they build a train station in navan and run rush hour services from connolly that go to Navan in the meantime before the m3 parkway line is complete.

Won't happen and there's no plan to extend beyond M3 Parkway.

Grandeeod · 16-08-2016 08:30PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

Kilmainhamwood station.

MGWR · 16-08-2016 08:40PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

Won't happen and there's no plan to extend beyond M3 Parkway.

There's definitely a plan, but they do often get "deferred" usually for political reasons.

Navan railway line

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