Armstrong 2015/16

L1m1tless · 20-03-2016 3:52pm

Perhaps, but we would need some luck for sure. It will be exciting either way. Much better than boring mid table!

sinbad68 · 20-03-2016 7:17pm

cdeb wrote: »

Hm.

Rumours of Curragh's demise were very much exaggerated! Even 3½ against Dún Laoghaire in the final round would make it very difficult for two teams to catch them.

Lets assume Curragh get 3.5 points in their final round as you stated and end up with 32 points. How is it so difficult for other teams to catch Curragh ?.

Kilkenny are at 26 points with TWO matches to go and 2 titled players at the helm would need 6 points to overtake Curragh in the table.
Phibsboro with 29 points would only need 3 points from remaining TWO mtaches.
Benildus B at 27 points would need 5 points from remaining TWO matches To overtake Curragh.

Remember, to Survive relegation, Curragh would need TWO teams to end up with lower score than her come end of season.
Your maths and analysis leaves much to be desired.

Neo_Ninja wrote: »

Perhaps, but we would need some luck for sure. It will be exciting either way. Much better than boring mid table!

Curragh does have a chess clock problem, using Time delay mechanism with clock instead of adding increments is NOT applying fischer time, In a recent match in Curragh a game had to be stopped and new clock brought in. It would be great if Curragh players were familiar with using their own club's chess clocks or at least someone knowledgeable set the clocks before start of match with visitors.

L1m1tless · 20-03-2016 7:28pm

Chess clocks are the least of our problems! Did you at least enjoy your dinner?

sinbad68 · 20-03-2016 10:56pm

Neo_Ninja wrote: »

Chess clocks are the least of our problems! Did you at least enjoy your dinner?

Chess clocks are least of your problems because The visitor showed sportsmanship and accepted his defeat even though when he realised the problem, he had a losing position and could have easily asked for the result of the game to be declare invalid as the Time delay feature made the game shorter than increment added game would have and this feature is Not acceptable by LCU or Fide. The visitor could still contact league controller.

Yes, had the visitor been from Benildus things would have been different, in case you don't know ......... Many moons ago in a final round of LCU Armstrong match between Benildus vs Rathmines , while there was nothing at stake for Benildus , Rathmines were fighting for survival, It is a 2 hour per player game with 1 hour default time, A Rathmines player with serious illness arrives late for his match with over 1 hour left on the clock and he proceeds to play, but his Benildus opponent wants the game awarded to him based on the fact that just over one hour has passed from the time the game is officially supposed to be started even though less than one hour has passed on the chess clock !. Remember Benildus player will get No rating points and nothing is at stake for Benildus team. Benildus player gets his way and awarded the game and rathmines get relegated and had the much higher rated rathmines player scored a draw in his game , rathmines would have avoided relegation.

cdeb · 20-03-2016 11:28pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Lets assume Curragh get 3.5 points in their final round as you stated and end up with 32 points. How is it so difficult for other teams to catch Curragh ?.

Kilkenny are at 26 points with TWO matches to go and 2 titled players at the helm would need 6 points to overtake Curragh in the table.
Phibsboro with 29 points would only need 3 points from remaining TWO mtaches.
Benildus B at 27 points would need 5 points from remaining TWO matches To overtake Curragh.

Remember, to Survive relegation, Curragh would need TWO teams to end up with lower score than her come end of season.

Indeed. Now let's look to see where those points are actually going to come from.

Phibsboro play Gonzaga and St Benildus A. Gonzaga's results against the others in the bottom 4 - 8-0, 7½-½ and 7-1. Benildus' results - 6-2 and 6½-1½. Particularly if Phibsboro have a weakened team out, it's entirely conceivable they could get whitewashed against Gonzaga and end up needing 3 points against a Benildus side looking to confirm second place.

As for us, we face Elm Mount - a team of 1900s; we've lost 6-2 to our As and Dublin, and 6½-1½ to Trinity. We did draw with Bray, but another 6-2/6½-1½ looks more likely against Elm Mount.

Then we'd need 3/3½ points against a Kilkenny side with three titled players (granted, Éamon Keogh's rating isn't what it used to be). Not easy.

Dún Laoghaire are weaker than Bray and Dublin; it's probably going to be easier for Curragh to add to those predictions than for Phibsboro/Benildus B to do so.

Presuming Babs and Quinn are playing the last two games, I think Kilkenny will get enough off our two teams to stay up.

sinbad68 wrote: »

Your maths and analysis leaves much to be desired.

Just as a mod note, can you dial down the aggression and comments like this in your posts in future please?

sinbad68 · 21-03-2016 1:35pm

cdeb wrote: »

Hm.

Rumours of Curragh's demise were very much exaggerated! Even 3½ against Dún Laoghaire in the final round would make it very difficult for TWO teams to catch them.

In statement above you implied that it is very difficult for TWO teams to catch Curragh in the relegation battle and therefore very unlikely Curragh would be relegated, while in fact mathematically Curragh are the worse off team in the Armstrong. Curragh would need a good score in final round and hope that TWO other relegation rivals do badly in their final TWO matches for them to survive ( many IF's). <snip> - arguing with mod in-thread

cdeb · 21-03-2016 1:49pm

Curragh do need a good score - my starting point was to assume that. Obviously if they get thumped on the last day, they're gone.

But if Curragh get 3½, then Phibsboro need 3 points and Benildus B need 5 - and the results to date suggest neither team will actually achieve that. I should have added in our 6-2 defeat to our As as another example - so our results against the top few excl Gonzaga have been 2-6, 2-6, 1½-6½, 4-4 and a win against Balbriggan that can be discarded because of walkovers/150 point rule adjustments.

Tim Harding · 21-03-2016 5:17pm

What happened on Saturday in Gonzaga v Benildus A?

And are Balbriggan escaping unscatched after their illegal player incident? Currently the LCU table shows only one deduction: Dublin University for their default against Benildus A.

cdeb · 21-03-2016 5:43pm

The adjustment for Balbriggan v St Benildus B is incorporated into the match result.

I think defaults are treated differently as it's a 1 - -1 result, whereas the Balbriggan result could be accommodated as a 1-0

Didn't hear how Saturday went; must ask.

checknraise · 21-03-2016 9:24pm

It is currently Gonzaga 3 St Benildus 0, remaining games have been rescheduled due to a clash with Cork. Majority of the games will be played this week

cdeb · 24-03-2016 10:46am

Now Gonzaga 6½-½ St Benildus A. :eek:

sinbad68 · 24-03-2016 4:17pm

cdeb wrote: »

Now Gonzaga 6½-½ St Benildus A. :eek:

Why the :eek: ?.What did you expect would happen when a Jackal goes into a Lion's den ?. Benildus A team have 3 good players but majority of players in the team are the kind you find in any relegation side, Gonzaga Armstrong team is almost exclusively made up of young men who are strong players in their chess prime while other teams have players who have seen too many or too few winters.Your club had an unwarranted high opinion of their A team and now the bubble has burst.I did say Gonzaga would finish miles ahead of every one else.

EarlofCurragh · 25-03-2016 4:39pm

Just looking at the FIDE rules.

Doesn't actually suggest that there is any entitlement by any side to have the game declared invalid. Rather there is an onus to have it rectified, which is what happened on the day.

6.10 a. Every indication given by the chessclock is considered to be conclusive in the
absence of any evident defect. A chessclock with an evident defect shall be
replaced by the arbiter, who shall use his best judgement when determining the
times to be shown on the replacement chessclock.
b. If during a game it is found that the setting of either or both clocks is incorrect,
either player or the arbiter shall stop the chessclock immediately. The arbiter shall
install the correct setting and adjust the times and move-counter, if necessary. He
shall use his best judgement when determining the clock settings.

macelligott · 26-03-2016 12:50pm

In one away match I checked the clock settings (as I habitually do) and discovered they were on the incorrect "Bronstein" setting. As captain I asked that all clocks be reset to the correct "Fischer" setting. I believe it is one of the duties of a captain to try to make sure clocks are set correctly or advise his players to check the clock settings before starting play.

sinbad68 · 31-03-2016 11:11am

EarlofCurragh wrote: »

Just looking at the FIDE rules.

Doesn't actually suggest that there is any entitlement by any side to have the game declared invalid. Rather there is an onus to have it rectified, which is what happened on the day.

I am aware of Fide rules regarding chess clock which I stated a few months ago gives arbiters alot of discretion, In this case it is not just about The game being held in your club and a member of your club setting the clock wrong AND ... the visitor being up in material and a much better position and as result of shortened game he felt forced to play faster and made a blunder, It is more to do with visitor pointing out discongruity in the clock's actions where the delay mechanism did not seem to work properly or/and apply equally to both sides,this would go against Fide's " FAIR PLAY" rules and case could be made for annulling the result of the game and a possible rematch.

Let me ask you a question , which is better ?

1. At least one member of each team in your club gives couple of minutes of their time reading the clock manual section dealing with increments and learns how to set up the clocks right.

OR

2. It should be a case of pot luck as it is now, how much time visitors get at your club should depend on whether the club member setting the clock knows what to do or is a chess clock illiterate ?

macelligott · 02-04-2016 8:34pm

I've just heard that Kilkenny beat St.Benildus"A" 5-3 in round 10. A surprising result.
It looks increasingly like Curragh and St.Benildus "B" are for the chop.

cdeb · 02-04-2016 9:09pm

Certainly Kilkenny are safe.

Wouldn't rule out Phibsboro for relegation.

cdeb · 04-04-2016 11:24pm

Elm Mount 5.5-2.5 St Benildus B

Looked like we were going to win at one stage. Great draw for Zdravko against Dave Fitzsimons - and a really interesting game too

Now to see what Phibsboro pick up

cdeb · 04-04-2016 11:33pm

Same result in Phibsboro

Not good

Tim Harding · 06-04-2016 6:54pm

So Gonzaga 5.5-2.5 v Phibsboro means Gonzaga (not counting, I think, a postponed game v Benildus A and a last round game played in advance) have reached 64 points, winning the Armstrong by a large margin with one round to go. In fact they had it virtually certain with two rounds to go.
Is this a healthy situation for the league?

Trinity last night beat Bray/Greystones by the same margin (I wasn't playing) to reach 49.5 (after deduction of a point for default) and are almost certain to be runners up again. They are the only team (so far anyway) not to lose to Gonzaga this season. I think Elm Mount have 45 and Benildus A also have 45 (plus perhaps an unplayed top board game v Gonzaga?).

At the bottom the situation is more interesting. If I have the figures right (or else I am sure somebody will correct me) the standings before the last round are:

Curragh 28.5 play Dun Laoghaire. Curragh need a substantial win to have any hope.

Phibsboro 31.5 (to play Benildus A) could be relegated if they lose badly. Three points should be enough in practice though not mathematical safety.
Benildus A can be presumed to try very hard to save their club-mates.

Kilkenny 31 play Benildus B 29.5. The loser (especially if it's Benildus) will almost certainly be relegated. Depending on other results a 4-4 draw (or close to that) could save both or doom both.

The other three matches will be pretty much meaningless.

L1m1tless · 06-04-2016 8:55pm

If Curragh get 6.5 they will actually pass out Dun Laoighre. A tall order but anything is possible.

My prediction is Curragh and Phibsboro will go down.

macelligott · 06-04-2016 8:58pm

Hopefully the tables will be updated soon to make it easier to visualise the situation

sinbad68 · 10-04-2016 11:42pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

Let me ask you a question , which is better ?

1. At least one member of each team in your club gives couple of minutes of their time reading the clock manual section dealing with increments and learns how to set up the clocks right.

OR

2. It should be a case of pot luck as it is now, how much time visitors get at your club should depend on whether the club member setting the clock knows what to do or is a chess clock illiterate ?

No response from EarlofCurragh

Setting chess clock's wrong, effects the game result, team result, promotion, relegation,prizes, everything, it causes disputes and bad blood. It is a serious and widespread problem and once the host team is held responsible( Warning first, followed by a small fine or point deductions) clock manuals will be read and there will be a huge reduction in this problem.

There was another incident at a venue where I played this year , when a player made an illegal move, a Fide rule book was opened and from the time of illegal move til game was restarted (with one player getting 2 minutes additional time) it took 15 minutes! accompanied with alot of noise and chatter. So basically end result was that the player making illegal move got 15 minutes more time to think and his opponent got 17 minutes !.

This rule can be easily exploited by a cheat. If a player in a game is in a critical position and short of time he could simply make a deliberate illegal move and stop the clock immediately and wait for arbiter to come and by the time the game gets restarted, the culprit would get lots of extra time to think about his next move.

Illegal move should really lead to immediate loss in a sighted player unless opponent lacks material to checkmate and if you are going to use 2 minutes penalty, the individual who made the illegal move should immediately move away from the board and Not within 4 meters of the board until game is ready to be restarted.

Tim Harding · 11-04-2016 10:52pm

The individual board results from round 9 Dublin v Balbriggan are still not up on the LCU site, only the team score. Does anyone know what happened in detail?

sinbad68 · 11-04-2016 11:31pm

Tim Harding wrote: »

The individual board results from round 9 Dublin v Balbriggan are still not up on the LCU site, only the team score. Does anyone know what happened in detail?

I emailed LCU weeks ago about this and this is how the correspondence went

Sinbad
To:
Gerard Smith <rushview@hotmail.com; 21/03/2016
Hi
Your email is given as LCU Armstrong controller. On LCU site, individual scores between Dublin vs Balbriggan team is missing, tx
From: Gerard Smith <rushview@hotmail.com>
Sent: 21 March 2016 15:05
To: Sinbad
Subject: RE: Dublin vs Balbriggan

It could be a problem with your Browser as they are shown on mine. You might need to either refresh or clear your cache file and reload.

Gerry

Sinbad
To:
Gerard Smith <rushview@hotmail.com>; 21/03/2016
I was talking about individual player scores not team score, as usually when you click on match results between teams, results on each board shows up. tx

Yes. The Emperor wears No clothes!.

http://leinsterchess.com/lcu1516/div1/match53.htm

Tim Harding · 11-04-2016 11:38pm

sinbad68 wrote: »

I emailed LCU weeks ago about this and this is how the correspondence went

Yes. The Emperor wears No clothes!.

http://leinsterchess.com/lcu1516/div1/match53.htm

I have just tried this link in Microsoft Edge - which I almost never use and certainly had not used before to view this page - and the result is the same.

In other words, no names, no results...

So it's not a browser (cache) issue.

So I think the LCU need to re-post this result so that everyone can see it.

In general next season, I think results should be posted promptly and completely. Some new system needs to be adopted to ensure it happens.

HaraldSchmidt · 12-04-2016 8:46am

The LCU site knows the results of the individual games, as they can be seen when looking at how individual players have done, however, as Tim says, its not showing up on the match page. I guess it's a bug in the software that's used to generate the tables.

The whole site is generated from Excel spread sheets using Visual Basic for Applications, as far as I know. It would be great to make it a dynamic site which updates as soon as a form is filled in. It wouldn't be too hard to implement, but probably needs someone else to implement it.

macelligott · 16-04-2016 3:54pm

Does anyone know the result of the game Stephen Brady v Sam Collins postponed from round 9 match Gonzaga v St Benildus A ?

wine and final destination · 16-04-2016 6:50pm

Sam won so final score was Gonzaga 7.5-0.5 Benildus

L1m1tless · 17-04-2016 10:30am

Good luck to all today from Curragh Chess Club.

Armstrong 2015/16

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