Teenagers and driving...

oppenheimer1 · 20-03-2016 04:54PM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

I wonder how many road deaths can be attributed to poor road conditions rather than driver error. Interestingly enough, the RSA doesn't promote the notion that poor road surface in favour of the shock value of "speed kills".

Perhaps because you should drive at an appropriate speed given the road condition.

What has always annoyed me is that the cause of a road traffic incident is rarely reported. It leads to the feeling that accidents are almost fate and cannot be avoided, when of course every single one has a cause.

Ice Maiden · 20-03-2016 05:58PM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

I wonder how many road deaths can be attributed to poor road conditions rather than driver error. Interestingly enough, the RSA doesn't promote the notion that poor road surface in favour of the shock value of "speed kills".

Twas the roads, guard - not my dangerous driving not taking into account the surface conditions, it was the roads made me do it!

Ice Maiden · 20-03-2016 05:59PM

SeanW wrote: »

So much Orwellian, fascist and communist impotent rage in just a few posts, what have we stumbled into?

Only if you have a poor command of the English language. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/accident?s=t
In the vast majority of contexts, the word "Accident" makes no reference whatsoever to fault or blame as this definition shows:

and is synonymous with: mischance, misfortune, misadventure; contingency; disaster.

Your redefinition of "accident" sounds like an exercise in Newspeak. Perhaps I should report to the local re-education camp for ungoodthinkful thoughtcrime

The term accident is totally neutral, factual reference to an event. To be an accident, an event must only have had negative consequences and been un-intentional. Full stop.

Already covered by dangerous driving legislation.

Seriously? "X is a self-indulgent luxury, it 'isn't needed' so lets ban it" I remember that line from the former Soviet Union. Ever watched Dr. Zhivago?

Seriously, what difference does it make if someone alters their car with alloys or similar visual enhancements, additional audio system equipment or engine tuning? I imagine any sane person would drive with greater, not lesser care after expending limited resources on such alterations. Even yobbish teenagers.

Road deaths have plummetted since the 1970s because of a trifecta of better cars, better roads including motorways and finally a much less tolerant attitude towards drink driving. I am convinced that a lot of the road deaths that remain are vehicular suicides - thus the real death toll from road accidents is considerably lower than the published statistics.

As to the subject of this thread, yes some kinds of yobbish behaviour are dangerous, but the facts clearly show that driving after 10 pints (as was routine in the '70s) is much more dangerous than doing donuts in a Tesco car park after midnight. Or speeding, or driving without an NCT or a number of other things. It's not even in the same ballpark.

Joseph Stalin, Goebbels etc broadly agree with this. As did some of the authority figures in George Orwells warning books like 1984.

"Those who fail to understand history ..."

Great to see you've read 1984 - excellent book.

But seriously, bringing communist totalitarian methods into a discussion about dangerous driving and people's mere views on it?

That person's definition of "accident" didn't seem too different to your definition of it - is it not a bit grandiose to be bringing in Newspeak in relation to what they said about the term "accident"?

I wouldn't agree with banning car modification (unless it affects safety) but I don't see how Dr Zhivago is of relevance!

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 06:35PM

oh - i wouldnt be for banning modification as well (just in case people think I am) there are some beauties out there where people have modded their cars and they look terrific, I do like looking at them at these shows you get and i like Top Gear on the telly and there are some badly done over the top ones too that just end up looking ridiculous)

- I am for banning if the modifications has made the car un-roadworthy for use on public roads in a way because that law/rules are there for a reason, and I am also in favour of banning the drivers who take risks and drive like a maggot just because they have a modded car and want to show it off to whoever by just driving backwards and forwards and want to show off 'how fast it can go' or what speeds it can do on the back roads/mountain roads, main roads etc... - naw, if people want to do that, fine , find a private road/track and not a public road where just ordinary law abiding people just want to get from A-B

As far as noisy big bore exhausts, dump valves (or whatever they are called) and rap music blaring out from 10" bass speakers at all hours day and night they are just annoying disturbance of the peace pain in the arses .... so are tractors and farm machinery too though as well :rolleyes: - ban them all

KERSPLAT! · 20-03-2016 06:42PM

I would assume that if a mod makes a car not roadworthy it is breaking the law already...

Valetta · 20-03-2016 06:47PM

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I would assume that if a mod makes a car not roadworthy it is breaking the law already...

What about an ordinary poster? -:)

20-03-2016 06:55PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What has always annoyed me is that the cause of a road traffic incident is rarely reported. It leads to the feeling that accidents are almost fate and cannot be avoided, when of course every single one has a cause.

Presume it might prejudice subsequent investigation or Court cases if a journalist speculated on the cause.

Clearlier · 20-03-2016 07:37PM

Bemused by anybody who doesn't think that suicide is a significant contributory factor to single person single vehicle accidents.

To answer the OP's question drink driving wouldn't occur to me for a teenager - much more likely to figure in my mind for a 50+ driver. Far far more likely to find a drink driver in that generation than in the ones after it. When you get to 70+ I think heart attack.

Multiple teenagers in a single vehicle accident would have me wondering about driving style for sure but the chances of me speculating out loud about the cause of a RTC are minimal. Their families have already suffered a loss - I'd hope that I'd resist any opportunity to condemn them out loud. I might be a little less circumspect where there were multiple vehicles and an investigation had identified dangerous driving as the cause but I'd be more likely to file it away as a story to tell my son when he starts to drive.

Galwayguy35 · 20-03-2016 07:56PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Is there any merit when I say that (and I havent read the rules on the road of this) that there must be a law on how noisy an exhaust can sound in decibels on a car. So if half my exhaust/silencers were hanging off and it was really loud near enough the decibels of a big bore exhaust of a modded car (better not say souped up car, might get into trouble :eek: ) - who would be likely to get pulled over by the gards for it and done.

There is a law on how noisy it should be, but these cars are really loud when going up and down the road in the middle of the night past our houses.

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 08:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Presume it might prejudice subsequent investigation or Court cases if a journalist speculated on the cause.

they can cover themselves by using the word 'allegedly

'

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 08:08PM

Valetta wrote: »

What about an ordinary poster? -:)

took a bit of a while for me to sink in but when it did LOL

freshpopcorn · 20-03-2016 08:14PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

There is a law on how noisy it should be, but these cars are really loud when going up and down the road in the middle of the night past our houses.

To the best of my knowledge the legal limit for exhaust noise still sounds load enough.
I've seen Gardai testing cars for this and they've to be really loud to fail.

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 08:21PM

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I would assume that if a mod makes a car not roadworthy it is breaking the law already...

be interesting to get some checkpoints set up and then reported how many modded cars are proper legal roadworthy and those that not.

Interestingly when I am in Halfords and looking at even Light bulbs and other custom stuff and look on back it says something like 'for off road use only' - in the case of lamps / lighting im thinking maybe bright / dazzling other drivers?. On the cases of smoked filters for glass and windscreen is maybe past a certain transparency thats so dark it causes an obstruction whilst driving and for other things such as suspension I should imagine if it says for off road use it must be something to do with how it makes the car handle maybe?

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 08:25PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge the legal limit for exhaust noise still sounds load enough.
I've seen Gardai testing cars for this and they've to be really loud to fail.

sometimes when these cars go past the house the roar produced from the exhaust can make the windows rattle in the house.

Years ago some TD was supposed to have been getting the law changed and the limits lowered on the decibels permitable of exhaust - but I dont think it ever went ahead or was passed

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 08:33PM

Re, middle aged to OAP drivers caught more with drink on them whilst driving. Well yes a lot of them would but they used to drive / swerve home doing 10 mph on back roads not doing speeds of 70mph and wrapping their motor around a lamppost or tree! But on the whole of course either way its not acceptable to drink and drive these days no matter how old you are or think it dont affect you.

20-03-2016 08:57PM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

sometimes when these cars go past the house the roar produced from the exhaust can make the windows rattle in the house.

Years ago some TD was supposed to have been getting the law changed and the limits lowered on the decibels permitable of exhaust - but I dont think it ever went ahead or was passed

Of course it can't be lowered more. Plenty of performance cars come out of the factory sounding very loud and proper super cars will be louder than most if not all the cars you hear around. The sound is part of the experience with cars.

RayM · 20-03-2016 09:12PM

Miya Ambitious Tablet wrote: »

Plenty of performance cars come out of the factory sounding very loud and proper super cars will be louder than most if not all the cars you hear around.

Great reason to ban them.

Miya Ambitious Tablet wrote: »

The sound is part of the experience with cars.

The whole point of cars should be to get from one place to another, as safely, cleanly and quietly as possible. They aren't toys and public roads aren't a playground for antisocial idiots.

Andy From Sligo · 20-03-2016 09:18PM

RayM wrote: »

Great reason to ban them.

The whole point of cars should be to get from one place to another, as safely, cleanly and quietly as possible. They aren't toys and public roads aren't a playground for antisocial idiots.

yeah Pen!s extentions arent they

freshpopcorn · 20-03-2016 09:41PM

RayM wrote: »

Great reason to ban them.

The whole point of cars should be to get from one place to another, as safely, cleanly and quietly as possible. They aren't toys and public roads aren't a playground for antisocial idiots.

If that's the case even standard family cars would be stripped of there additional extras.

FirefighterT7 · 20-03-2016 09:54PM

Me thinks some people are using this as an excuse to bring up modification as a hidden agenda! I work in emergency services and without divulging information relating to that I have to say in last year haven't encountered any modified vehicle accidents.. That's not to say it doesn't happen but not as bad as being portrayed.. I fully agree about loud exhausts though it can be ridiculous..

20-03-2016 11:03PM

RayM wrote: »

Great reason to ban them.

The whole point of cars should be to get from one place to another, as safely, cleanly and quietly as possible. They aren't toys and public roads aren't a playground for antisocial idiots.

Please, cars are a hobby and a toy for many people.

How bloody boring would it be if we didn't have nice cars to drive around in and have a bit of fun. Nothing better than driving a quick, good handling car that you sink into the seat when the power kicks in and a lovely roar from the engine and exhaust. They are also far safer than under powered cars. The ease at which I can over take in my car compared to many cars on the road. I'm out passed the car in front and back in while other cars are still trying to reach the petrol cap of the car they are over taking.

Again as I mentioned earlier you will find that accidents very rarely involve performance cars (modified or ones that are sold from day one as performance models).

jimgoose · 20-03-2016 11:26PM

RayM wrote: »

Great reason to ban them...

Couldn't agree more. Tax the living sh1t out of them and herd all the Nissan-driving bovines and their mewling brats onto public transport. That'd make the roads far safer for the grown-ups.

Ice Maiden · 20-03-2016 11:35PM

Miya Ambitious Tablet wrote: »

Please, cars are a hobby and a toy for many people.

How bloody boring would it be if we didn't have nice cars to drive around in and have a bit of fun. Nothing better than driving a quick, good handling car that you sink into the seat when the power kicks in and a lovely roar from the engine and exhaust. They are also far safer than under powered cars. The ease at which I can over take in my car compared to many cars on the road. I'm out passed the car in front and back in while other cars are still trying to reach the petrol cap of the car they are over taking.

Again as I mentioned earlier you will find that accidents very rarely involve performance cars (modified or ones that are sold from day one as performance models).

I love all the admissions of speeding and loud exhaust noise here. But it is only a bit of fun.
Nobody said people should not have a nice car by the way.

Andy From Sligo · 21-03-2016 12:10AM

Miya Ambitious Tablet wrote: »

Please, cars are a hobby and a toy for many people.

How bloody boring would it be if we didn't have nice cars to drive around in and have a bit of fun. Nothing better than driving a quick, good handling car that you sink into the seat when the power kicks in and a lovely roar from the engine and exhaust. They are also far safer than under powered cars. The ease at which I can over take in my car compared to many cars on the road. I'm out passed the car in front and back in while other cars are still trying to reach the petrol cap of the car they are over taking.

Again as I mentioned earlier you will find that accidents very rarely involve performance cars (modified or ones that are sold from day one as performance models).

Just because you and people like you it sounds like you can handle the car and be a good driver and safely bring the car to a halt should you need to we cant dismiss that some people should simply not be issued or allowed to drive these high performance cars .... especially if they not long passed their test, still wet behind their ears and dont know how to brake and steer on wet/icy roads - its a recipe for destruction with a lot of people, like giving them a loaded gun and telling them to obliterate themselves and others whilst their at it!

KERSPLAT! · 21-03-2016 12:19AM

Thread is bizarre

arybvtcw0eolkf · 21-03-2016 12:22AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Some of the "single vehicle accidents" are not accidents at all if you know what I mean

What are they?.

Ice Maiden · 21-03-2016 12:30AM

Zyaire Nutritious Stubbornness wrote: »

What are they?.

I think they are alluding to suspected suicides in some cases of single vehicle crashes.

Ice Maiden · 21-03-2016 12:31AM

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Thread is bizarre

Which part?

freshpopcorn · 21-03-2016 12:33AM

If I'm being honest I pay a lot of attention to car accidents on the news. I try and figure out the make and model, was the car modified, what may have caused the crash, the weather at the time.
The one thing I have noticed is its rarely a modified or high performance car being involved in these serious collisions.

21-03-2016 12:34AM

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Just because you and people like you it sounds like you can handle the car and be a good driver and safely bring the car to a halt should you need to we cant dismiss that some people should simply not be issued or allowed to drive these high performance cars .... especially if they not long passed their test, still wet behind their ears and dont know how to brake and steer on wet/icy roads - its a recipe for destruction with a lot of people, like giving them a loaded gun and telling them to obliterate themselves and others whilst their at it!

There are very very few young and inexperienced drivers driving actual performance cars as they can barely insure a small underpower city car never mind anything remotely interesting. People don't need performance cars to kill themselves they normally do it in very normal cars, in fact they may have less chance of crashing if they drove better cars with better breaks and handling.

Your comment about not being able to break and steer a car don't make any sense, if you can break and steer a crap little city car you can do it much easier in a better car with better everything from breaks and handling to other safety equipment such as traction and stability control. Doing the 120kmh limit on a motorway in a Yaris or Micra feels far more uncomfortable than doing 160+ in my car which is absolutely crushing at those speeds.

In any case my comments in the previous post were more general as opposed to being aimed at younger drivers. The poster said these cars should be banned basically, that will also mean they are banned for those of us who are far from being teenagers.

Teenagers and driving...

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