Teenagers and driving...

Andy From Sligo

A bit of a taboo thing it seems still these days and you must be respectful to the dead and the families and friends left behind, but when you hear of a fatal crash at around 4am and it involved teenagers or people under 25 and maybe no other cars involved, after the initial shock and sadness do you ever think to yourself that they were speeding, mucking about, showing off to their friends or had drink on them or do you just think they are just tragic accidents and nothing else. Just trying to grasp how people view these stories when you hear them on the news. Also by not wanting to point the finger to young drivers because you don't want to be disrespectful to them or their families if there was a fatality or severe crash do you think its right to gloss over it that way or give them the benefit of the doubt or that it was just an unfortunate accident or should it all be talked out and out in the open. If it was a young driver that had form of being a boy/girl racer and that was rebound in the area for speeding, mucking about and doing handbrake turns and doughnuts and they had an accident or fatality would you be of the mind of 'well it was bound to happen one day' or would you still be shocked and keep your view to yourself not to upset the people left behind?

Lights On

Would you think the same thing if it was a person over the age of 25 in the same incident?

SEPT 23 1989

Some of the "single vehicle accidents" are not accidents at all if you know what I mean

Andy From Sligo

Stupidly I suppose, but more times than not, I personally would think that a bunch of teenagers or under 25s that were out at that time of the morning and had crashed either had drink on them or were mucking about, or speeding and lost control of car, couldn't correct it and crashed it. I dunno maybe I shouldn't be thinking like that. Enough about me, what do others think?

The flying mouse

When i here of an accident re teenagers i have a small habit of trying to justifying it with ah they must have been drinking, they must have been speeding, sure if they were driving the correct way the accident wouldn't have happened, etc etc.Then i think the poor kids,the poor family's the poor relations/friends,and my heart goes out to them no matter what the cause.

One eyed Jack

It depends on context and circumstances how I feel about every case I hear of. There isn't a "one size fits all" default way of thinking about these things IMO.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

4am and no other cars? I'd automatically assume drink. Or fatigue. Wouldnt consider age to be a factor though.

My 24 year old brother used to drive around like an eejit when he was a teenager. Speeding all the time. And the aul "handbrake" turns. My Mother's old car was a mess by the time she got rid of it. Saying that he was never in a crash and would never drink and drive. Was just showing off. No excuse though! He drives safely nowadays.

Natural selection

freshpopcorn

It's sort of the same when an old person is in an accident. People just say they shouldn't be driving and should be
re-tested.

TG1

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Stupidly I suppose, but more times than not, I personally would think that a bunch of teenagers or under 25s that were out at that time of the morning and had crashed either had drink on them or were mucking about, or speeding and lost control of car, couldn't correct it and crashed it. I dunno maybe I shouldn't be thinking like that. Enough about me, what do others think?

I'm exactly the same. I lost two very good friends when the car they were in with two others from the group of friends turned over and went into a ditch at 4:20 am. This was when we were in our early twenties and I automatically assumed drink or at the very least excessive speed was involved, we were all young and stupid at the time.

These days we all have more sense I think but that particular age group is not usually sensible in groups, so when I hear those stories I have the same opinion when it's strangers as when it was my friends. I presume it is a tragic and unnecessary loss of life.

Andy From Sligo

Would it be too forceful, too nanny state, too over the top (if they had resources) if the gardai or traffic corps were more zero tolerant with young drivers and pulled them over more often on our roads? If it would save lives by randomly arresting law breakers (even if it was not legal modded motors or defective dangerous cars that some young people have) and get them off the roads or come down on them when they even break the speed limit through towns an villages in the daytime, if the authorities took these type of drivers off the roads would people think good on the authorities their heavy handedness is saving peoples lives on the roads (even the boy/ girl racer from getting into an accident down the line) or would it just be that of the authorities being too heavy handed?

somefeen

Deleted User wrote: »

Natural selection

Absolute and utter ****e

tomwaterford

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Would it be too forceful, too nanny state, too over the top (if they had resources) if the gardai or traffic corps were more zero tolerant with young drivers and pulled them over more often on our roads? If it would save lives by randomly arresting law breakers (even if it was not legal modded motors or defective dangerous cars that some young people have) and get them off the roads or come down on them when they even break the speed limit through towns an villages in the daytime, if the authorities took these type of drivers off the roads would people think good on the authorities their heavy handedness is saving peoples lives on the roads (even the boy/ girl racer from getting into an accident down the line) or would it just be that of the authorities being too heavy handed?

A recipe for resentment IMO

Gaurds going out to speficily target one group is never a good idea



Though whatever about anything else....drink driving would be virtually unheard of amoung younger people IME

CruelCoin

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

4am and no other cars? I'd automatically assume drink. Or fatigue. Wouldnt consider age to be a factor though.

I' consider the pimped out stereo going at 120 decibels, accompanied by loads of looking around at friends while shouting "wyaaaaah"

When I think back to what we did over 20 years back, tin cans like Micras crammed with youngsters heading to the pubs and discos and flying around country roads in South Kerry. It was just part of growing up, no taxis available. Had a few friends who slammed into walls and trees, one fatality. I guess it's inevitable as long as there are young people and cars that they will mess about. I have nothing but sympathy for any kids killed or injured in those accidents.

Charles Babbage

A significant proportion of teenagers are irresponsible individuals who don't give a damn about anyone else. Other groups have accidents, but many of these people are driving dangerously deliberately.

tomwaterford

Charles Babbage wrote: »

A significant proportion of teenagers are irresponsible individuals who don't give a damn about anyone else. Other groups have accidents, but many of these people are driving dangerously deliberately.

^^^This is earth shattering news :pac:


Look it....most people did incredibly stupid when younger/driving first

Like its nothing short of pure luck their wasn't people my age killed when I younger....the amount of messing (hand brakes etc)and crashes people around here walked away from....it's pure just a part of growing up
** this may only be applicable for rural areas

Andy From Sligo

So if its part of 'growing up' what shall we all do then, accept it. Let people get away with driving illegally whilst other drivers on the road (who have grown up) are expected to drive responsibly within the law?

Menas

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

So if its part of 'growing up' what shall we all do then, accept it. Let people get away with driving illegally whilst other drivers on the road (who have grown up) are expected to drive responsibly within the law?

Show a few photos of the aftermath of these crashes in schools. May just give them cause to think a little about the consequences of their lunacy...

darkpagandeath

Accident implies there is no one to blame or at fault.

Andy From Sligo

What about other road users at night/morning driving on the roads trying to get home from work or going to work. Should they have to put up with young drivers with a car full of young tanked up passengers acting the maggot and have a near miss, because of leave the kids alone they are just kids having a good time?

tomwaterford

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

So if its part of 'growing up' what shall we all do then, accept it. Let people get away with driving illegally whilst other drivers on the road (who have grown up) are expected to drive responsibly within the law?

Pretty much....youth is wasted on the young as the father used say


Teach driving in schools??

As many of these are just bad habits etc people fall into...
There is a shocking low amount of knowledge on braking distances etc known even amoung older drivers

Very few know that is a wheel is both turning and braking at the same time there is a trade off as tyres find it hard to do both (taught this at FAS)...and it's better to do your braking before the bend

Andy From Sligo

darkpagandeath wrote:

Accident implies there is no one to blame or at fault.

Nearly all news in the media describes these as accidents or fatalities, makes it pretty hard to get statistics I should imagine as to what the real cause of the road traffic incident really was. I bet most of the time the garda and the other emergency people know when they turn up what is an accident and what is not. However the general public won't get to hear it because its all lumped into the same pot of 'tragic accident'

syklops

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

What about other road users at night/morning driving on the roads trying to get home from work or going to work. Should they have to put up with young drivers with a car full of young tanked up passengers acting the maggot and have a near miss, because of leave the kids alone they are just kids having a good time?

You suggested the Guards randomly pull over young people. Id be against that as a policy, but i'd be surprised if its not already an unofficial policy already.

There is no easy answer to this, but if you are a safe driver, driving at that time of night and you came across a car full of people young or otherwise, driving dangerously, and you pulled over and rang the traffic corps to report them, I wonder what sort of response you would get. Would you get through? Would a nearby patrol be alerted? Would there be a patrol within 30 kilometres of your location?

For the guards to randomly pull over young people at 4am in the morning, there needs to be guards patrolling the roads at 4am and I'd wonder how many there are.

TG1

I don't think teaching or lack of is the problem. We all thought we were invincible at twenty. As you get older you develop a healthy self preservation instinct but it takes a while and a few knock backs....

I'm not sure how you get the message across to youngsters that a car can be a lethal weapon but it's a message that needs to be got across better than it is at the mo. The RSA adds were good at the start but they've lost their shock factor now.

ProudDUB

A couple of weeks ago, I was nearly ran over in a supermarket car park by some young eegit, driving way too fast. Got inside and saw yer man talking to one of the cashiers. Turns out she was his mammy and he was there to bring her home. So I bit the bullet, marched up to her and told her what had just happened.

Said, that as embarrassing & uncomfortable as this was for both of us, imagine how she'd feel if her young pup killed someone with his dangerous driving. She was genuinely upset and I felt bad about that. But am still glad I did it, if it makes her son think twice about his driving.

well spoken man

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Some of the "single vehicle accidents" are not accidents at all if you know what I mean

Is this a thing now?

tomwaterford

ProudDUB wrote: »

A couple of weeks ago, I was nearly ran over in a supermarket car park by some young eegit, driving way too fast. Got inside and saw yer man talking to one of the cashiers. Turns out she was his mammy and he was there to bring her home. So I bit the bullet, marched up to her and told her what had just happened.

Said, that as embarrassing & uncomfortable as this was for both of us, imagine how she'd feel if her young pup killed someone with his careless ways. She was genuinely upset and I felt bad about that, but am still glad I did it, if it makes her son think twice about his driving.

This is the best approach!!!

All it takes is a bit of a cop on!!
Bet his mother gave him a well deserved bolixing as well

lawlolawl

Any time i've encountered someone deliberately acting the bollix on the road it has been a young lad/wan.

Gardai should be able to seize their cars and their license should be suspended for 2 years with a full retest required if they are caught acting the fool. Make it apply to anyone under 25. if a cop so much as sees you do a burnout pulling away from where you are parked then your have you car and licence taken. Also, ban modified cars from use on public because no one needs them to drive on public roads.

Young people nowadays are so indulged that it is shameful.They are doing things that could cause serious injury or even death to other innocent people and the attitude seems to be :"Ah shure, they are only young".

The road fatalities figure is so high because we have such a lax attitude to people being utter idiots on the road.

freshpopcorn

I went to school/college with a few boy racers. This would have being at a time when road safety would have being promoted a lot. We had a crashed car brought into us, traffic corps and so on.
Did any of it make any bit of a difference not really. When people started driving did they speed and do dangerous things of course they did for the laugh and kick out if it.
Road deaths have dropped a lot over the decades in my experience and a lot of this is to do with safer cars.

Andy From Sligo

ProudDUB wrote:

Said, that as embarrassing & uncomfortable as this was for both of us, imagine how she'd feel if her young pup killed someone with his dangerous driving. She was genuinely upset and I felt bad about that. But am still glad I did it, if it makes her son think twice about his driving.

Of course it could have gone the other way and you got a threatening mouthful of torrential language and threats from both the mother and the son which happens these days when you try to approach something head on like that. You were lucky maybe.

Charles Babbage

One modern solution might be a GPS enabled device compulsory for inexperienced drivers or anyone with any sort of conviction, this would record speeds at all times and locations and if there is a pattern of acting the maggot then licence into bin.

freshpopcorn

lawlolawl wrote: »

Any time i've encountered someone deliberately acting the bollix on the road it has been a young lad/wan.

Gardai should be able to seize their cars and their license should be suspended for 2 years with a full retest required if they are caught acting the fool. Make it apply to anyone under 25. if a cop so much as sees you do a burnout pulling away from where you are parked then your have you car and licence taken. Also, ban modified cars from use on public because no one needs them to drive on public roads.

Young people nowadays are so indulged that it is shameful.They are doing things that could cause serious injury or even death to other innocent people and the attitude seems to be :"Ah shure, they are only young".

The road fatalities figure is so high because we have such a lax attitude to people being utter idiots on the road.

You should look at fatalities on Irish roads back in the seventies.

Andy From Sligo

Charles Babbage wrote:

One modern solution might be a GPS enabled device compulsory for inexperienced drivers or anyone with any sort of conviction, this would record speeds at all times and locations and if there is a pattern of acting the maggot then licence into bin.

Good idea, and a simple one as well. Can't see why it hasn't already been implemented. The only wans crying 'big brother society" will be the ones with something to hide!

lawlolawl

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I went to school/college with a few boy racers. This would have being at a time when road safety would have being promoted a lot. We had a crashed car brought into us, traffic corps and so on.
Did any of it make any bit of a difference not really. When people started driving did they speed and do dangerous things of course they did for the laugh and kick out if it.

Indeed. They would more than likely be nudging their buddy beside them and saying "that'd be you on a Saturday night after trying to race against Tommy in his Lancer" before they all had a good laugh about it.

The shock value thing is completely lost on this age group. It'll never happen to them as far as they are concerned. I know this is how they think because it is how all my friends and i thought at their age.

freshpopcorn

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Of course it could have gone the other way and you got a threatening mouthful of torrential language and threats from both the mother and the son which happens these days when you try to approach something head on like that. You were lucky maybe.

The woman had to be nice she worked in the shop. Chances are she they both could have laughed there heads off the minute ProudDub back was turned.

Andy From Sligo

freshpopcorn wrote:

You should look at fatalities on Irish roads back in the seventies.

Be lovely to get to the stage of even one fatality on the roads due to dangerous driving is one death too much! Shouldnt have to compare today's figures with years ago, just simply means less people are getting caught and done these days, not that people have changed their attitudes to driving and are better drivers. Cutbacks and unreported traffic incident can massage to figures too

Sheep Lover

I wonder how many road deaths can be attributed to poor road conditions rather than driver error. Interestingly enough, the RSA doesn't promote the notion that poor road surface in favour of the shock value of "speed kills".

Aongus Von Heisenberg

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Accident implies there is no one to blame or at fault.

Only to those with a poor understanding of the English language.

Rather it implies that the collision was not a deliberately intended result of someone's actions. Accidents can and do arise as an unintended consequence of people's mistakes and carelessness.

Andy From Sligo

Just putting it out there , when these young wans spend hundreds and thousands souping up their motors with all these add ons, does it make them want to drive any more careful that they don't wanna smash up their pride and joy?

KERSPLAT!

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Be lovely to get to the stage of even one fatality on the roads due to dangerous driving is one death too much! Shouldnt have to compare today's figures with years ago, just simply means less people are getting caught and done these days, not that people have changed their attitudes to driving and are better drivers. Cutbacks and unreported traffic incident can massage to figures too

How do people get less "caught and done" with regards to fatalities on the road!? There is no getting away with it.

Andy From Sligo

True that lol , I was thinking more of the ones that smash into wall or lampposts and don't die. They don't get reported or statistic'ed

tomwaterford

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Just putting it out there , when these young wans spend hundreds and thousands souping up their motors with all these add one, does it make them want to drive any more careful that they don't wanna smash up their pride and joy?

A nice set alloys and radio etc is a great addition to any car and if it encourages people to look after there cars properly....what harm like??


Though for many...they are getting pure fleeced imo

ProudDUB

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Of course it could have gone the other way and you got a threatening mouthful of torrential language and threats from both the mother and the son which happens these days when you try to approach something head on like that. You were lucky maybe.

Her boss (the customer service supervisor) was standing about three feet away from us. I didn't speak loud enough for him to hear us. But he certainly would have, if she attempted to give me an earful. I doubt if he would be a bit impressed at her (a) giving a customer verbal abuse or (b) her lift home nearly killing a customer in their car park.

All this all took place in a safe, controlled environment, (for me,) as we were in her workplace. I probably would have thought twice alright, about approaching some random person on the street.

Andy From Sligo

I've said it before and I will say it again, the roads were much safer when cars done a maximum of 5miles per hour and had a chap in front waving a flag! :-D

FirefighterT7

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

darkpagandeath wrote:

Accident implies there is no one to blame or at fault.

Nearly all news in the media describes these as accidents or fatalities, makes it pretty hard to get statistics I should imagine as to what the real cause of the road traffic incident really was. I bet most of the time the garda and the other emergency people know when they turn up what is an accident and what is not. However the general public won't get to hear it because its all lumped into the same pot of 'tragic accident'

The term Road traffic accident is not used in emergency services anymore it's known as Road Traffic Collision, because it's hard to determine an accident and a lot are driver error, ie: avoidable unfortunately..

Sheep Lover

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I've said it before and I will say it again, the roads were much safer when cars done a maximum of 5miles per hour and had a chap in front waving a flag! :-D

You're saying alot Andy and not much of it is making sense if I'm honest.

Charles Babbage

Sheep Lover wrote: »

I wonder how many road deaths can be attributed to poor road conditions rather than driver error. Interestingly enough, the RSA doesn't promote the notion that poor road surface in favour of the shock value of "speed kills".

A misleading road surface might contribute to safety, a generally poor one does not as the driver should drive accordingly.

Sheep Lover

Charles Babbage wrote: »

A misleading road surface might contribute to safety, a generally poor one does not as the driver should drive accordingly.

Doubtful really. Poor construction of roads including having lethal "blind bends" in place add an additional and unnecessary hazardous safety issue on that road. Also, roads being repaired with handful loose chippings and a splash of hot tar is not appropriate for a modern roadway system.

FunLover18

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Accident implies there is no one to blame or at fault.

No, the term 'accident' meas that it was done unintentionally. If I knocked over someone's drink in a bar, I didn't do it on purpose but it's still my fault because I should've been watching where I was going.

I'm not saying there's someone to blame in all accidents but the word has no bearing on blame or lack there of.