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Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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Comments

  • #332
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    My sister in law is a nurse, has been for about 7 or 8 years. About 4 years ago or thereabouts, at more or less the height of the mortgage crisis - she could sashay into a bank, with not a penny in savings (she was gifted the 10% deposit) and come out with a big enough mortgage to buy a perfectly nice house in terenure. About a year later she took a year off to travel around the world and then waltzed back into her job, no questions asked. Apparently she can do that 4 more times, should she get itchy feet once more!
    Whatever about the nature of the work they do - they clearly are neither underpaid, nor overworked. (nor should they be, by the way - but you do get sick of the moaning sometimes!)

    They work a minimum of 1 hour per day for free called the 'handover'. Its free because in theory when their shift ends they stand up and walk out the door but as that would result in patients being dead due to the new shift coming on not having a ****ing clue whats going on, it doesnt happen.

    Every occupation has career breaks and in the past 10 years the HSE has sanctioned a whole whopping 47. Oh wow be still my beating heart, 47!

    4 years ago she boought a nice house because the prices had dropped over 50%, plenty of people bought houses in 2009 / 2010. What absolute bull****.
    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    Just suppose for instance that the nurses campaigned to move from their current 12 hours on/12 hours off shift structure to a 3 8 hour shifts structure in conjunction with the rest of hospital employees. Shorter days, more regular shift patterns, longer potential opening hours for hospital clinics . . .
    What pay reduction or social initivative did your union sign you up for? You realise that workers pay unions to fight for them right? NOt to **** them over?

    How would working 8 hours result in more regular shifts? It would be the opposite.
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Garda pay:
    Average €64380 in 2013, up slightly since 2009 despite common misconceptions. Link from CSO (based on actual money paid - p14):
    http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2013/earnlabcosts_q22013.pdf
    As for the last time Gardaí were moaning a couple of years ago, the relevant Department stated that average pay for Garda rank was about €60k.

    Nurses:
    Difficult to get a proper link, but here is an article from 2007 discussing average nurse pay at €56k - based on salary plus approx. 25% in premium payments (as admitted by their unions; note this does not include overtime, just extra pay for qualifications, unsocial hours etc). I imagine pay has risen since then.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/doctors-and-nurses-a-game-of-high-stakes-1.1202931


    NowPadraig, I know the stats were long and boring reading but when you were going through it did you happen to notice the following statements:

    "In the four years to Q2 2013 public sector earnings have fallen by €17.30 (-1.8%), and this compares with an increase of €5.10 (+0.8%) in private sector average weekly earnings in the same period" So [public sector down, private sector up

    "The largest percentage increase was in Construction sector (+6.7%) from €18.70 to €19.95, followed by the Transportation and storage sector (+5.4%) from €19.79 to €20.85. The largest sectoral percentage decrease was recorded in the Professional, scientific and technical sector" so again, private sector up, public sector down

    "However, across the sectors hourly earnings have decreased in 7 of the 13
    sectors with the largest percentage decrease recorded in the Human health and social work sector (-6.5%) from €24.91 to €23.29. The largest percentage increase in average hourly earnings over the same period was recorded in the Information and communication sector (+7.4%) from €25.91 to €27.83.     well blow me if that isnt public sector down, private sector up

    "Average weekly paid hours were 31.6 in Q2 2013, which represented an increase of 0.3% (+0.1 hours) over the year". Public sector work a minimum of 39 hours so if the national average is 31 hours, maybe the private sector are working less average hours per week? If thats the case maybe that would have a knock on effect to the average annual income do you think? Wow I am shocked, someone working 40 hours a week earning more than someone on 30 hours!

    "Average weekly paid hours for the Garda Síochána were up 0.4 hours (+1.0%) from 40.4 hours in Q2 2012 to 40.8 hours" so Gardai are earning 52 a year but working more than 11 hours a week over the average. Thats 552 hours a year!

    "It should be noted that all earnings are gross amounts before deductions for PRSI, tax and other levies. This is particularly relevant to the public sector since March 2009 when the pension levy was introduced." Pension levy is a public sector tax of 7% that the private sector does not pay.

    "Many public sector employees are paid on the basis of incremental scales.
    Recruitment, particularly at lower levels, to these sectors would generally result in a depression to average earnings. The absence of recruitment has the opposite effect. Earnings are inclusive of overtime and irregular earnings."     So, it includes overtime. INCLUDES OVERTIME

    Now onto my next point and I am afraid I must shout SHENANIGANS very very loudly here. The average wage in An Garda Siochana does NOT only show the average wage for Garda rank. It shows the average wage in the entire force. You do realise how averages work right? I am a Garda, I earn 10 grand a year, The commisioner warns 90 grand a year. The Gardai 'average' 50 grand a year. Get it?

    Also, full credit for relying on an article from 2007 to prove the average Nurses wages. Thats only 9 years ago and before the economic crash and resulting slashing of wages. Kudos indeed.

    Ya know, I have asked many times but why are all the whingers not joining these jobs?

    and again, if you have to lie and rely on overtime to bump the numbers in your arguement, you have already lost.

    Now, my wife is threating to divorce me for sitting looking at a laptop so adios


  • #333
    jongaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭jongaz


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well they can be called biochemists or biomedical scientists. I prefer clinical biochemists. I was briefly employed as a hospital biochemist before going into research. For the training and skills involved they are seriously underpaid. They are often seriously unappreciated as evident by posts like these.

    They test bloods and other substances which makes a lot of diagnosis possible. They are also human and make mistakes which completely changes the diagnosis.

    The poster was saying that biochemists are underpaid and have a lot of responsibilities. I don't think they were putting down junior doctors they were simply pointing out biochemists are undervalued and also have massive massive responsibility.

    If biochemists weren't there doctors couldn't do their job.

    A little over the top with the last statement don't you think? Getting diagnosis with biochemistry is crucial, and most of the time decisive, but there is also the skill of what to ask for, what to look for, and how to interpret them, depending on the scenario. Doctors don't take all results as they show plainly, whether that be biochemistry, haematology or microbiology.

    There were doctors before biomedical scientists, with all due respect.

    I agree with every other point though.

    Now where are the radiographers?? Couldn't live without them either! :D

    Again, it just shows how senseless it is to argue which job is more important in healthcare. All are irreplaceable, because that is how the current system is designed.

    Saying one profession couldn't do their job without another is senseless IMO.


  • #334
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    First of all guys no one is saying biochemists can do medicine or that they are better than doctors or that junior doctors are useless.

    I am saying they are highly undervalued. When I'm saying biochemists are undervalued it does not by extension I undervalue any other medic.

    When I say medicine students fail biochemistry I was pointing out how hard it is and how demanding the education and training are for it. A lot of scientists also fail it too. I was using the doctors analogy because medicine students get 600 points and a lot find even the basic module extremely difficult.


  • #335
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    jongaz wrote: »
    A little over the top with the last statement don't you think? Getting diagnosis with biochemistry is crucial, and most of the time decisive, but there is also the skill of what to ask for, what to look for, and how to interpret them, depending on the scenario. Doctors don't take all results as they show plainly, whether that be biochemistry, haematology or microbiology.

    There were doctors before biomedical scientists, with all due respect.

    I agree with every other point though.

    Now where are the radiographers?? Couldn't live without them either! :D

    Again, it just shows how senseless it is to argue which job is more important in healthcare. All are irreplaceable, because that is how the current system is designed.

    Saying one profession couldn't do their job without another is senseless IMO.


    Are you joking about this? There were doctors in the times of the Pharaohs.


  • #336
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    xLisaBx wrote: »
    Equal pay. We want equal pay to junior doctors. Because living in Cork City for placement on 5 euro an hour is pretty impossible, there has been junior biomeds going to work without eating over it.

    I do feel sympathy if after 5 years college with the degree done, your equivalent of doctor's intern year is for 5e an hour, that's crazy.

    But you do realise lab staff don't deal directly with patients when they're sick and dying which is the hardest part of working in a hospital. You don't talk to families and don't deal with drunk/drugged/abusive patients. You can't expect parity with junior doctors who are directly in the firing line. I do respect what you do but maybe its because my dealings with the lab are limited but I've never seen your job as being difficult in the same way nurses are. I would however consider nurses starting out to be well underpaid and they have more direct 1:1 with patients than I do. Tbh I'd see nurses starting out as possibly more deserving of a pay rise than either doctors or biochemists.

    I admit my bias though, I'm a doctor so that colours my viewpoint. . And you're a qualified hospital biochemist presumably?


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  • #337
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    This reads like an episode of Criminal Minds where the beaten down biochemist goes rogue when he doesn't get the credit. Ever.

    Doo doo doo do dooo doo doo doo..


  • #338
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    My sister in law is a nurse, has been for about 7 or 8 years. About 4 years ago or thereabouts, at more or less the height of the mortgage crisis - she could sashay into a bank, with not a penny in savings (she was gifted the 10% deposit) and come out with a big enough mortgage to buy a perfectly nice house in terenure. About a year later she took a year off to travel around the world and then waltzed back into her job, no questions asked. Apparently she can do that 4 more times, should she get itchy feet once more!
    Whatever about the nature of the work they do - they clearly are neither underpaid, nor overworked. (nor should they be, by the way - but you do get sick of the moaning sometimes!)

    Given average pay in the private sector is only 32k a year, and generally no juicy pension to look forward to, and often no job security, not many private sector workers could afford a "perfectly nice house in Terenure", and galavant around the world for a year too.


  • #339
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    maryishere wrote: »
    Given average pay in the private sector is only 32k a year, and generally no juicy pension to look forward to, and often no job security, not many private sector workers could afford a "perfectly nice house in Terenure", and galavant around the world for a year too.

    That's the point made.


  • #340
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    maryishere wrote: »
    Given average pay in the private sector is only 32k a year, and generally no juicy pension to look forward to, and often no job security, not many private sector workers could afford a "perfectly nice house in Terenure", and galavant around the world for a year too.

    How about instead of completely missing the point you answer the questions put to you and while you are at it, read the reports and stats showing your claims about the public sector are bull****? Or would that just get in the way of the blame game?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99086594&postcount=333

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99080532&postcount=314

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99080433&postcount=310

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99056386&postcount=102


  • #341
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Why do all the stats show averages? Wouldn't the mode be more accurate? The mode is what MOST people are paid.


    Don't forget there are a lot of nurses who don't work shift - public health nurses, community nurses etc and so are paid the basic rate as they don't work unsocial hours.



    Public sector employees tend to cluster around the lower grades - not everyone can get promoted and very few will make it to the top. The low grades get paid not a lot, they have had to pay a Pension Levy as well as extra taxes, and most have had their hours increased.
    A worker on €37,000 a year (the maximum for a Clerical Officer)
    Linky



    And here's a great video showing the distribution of wealth in Ireland.


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  • #342
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Why do all the stats show averages? Wouldn't the mode be more accurate? The mode is what MOST people are paid.

    I could make a smart ass comment regarding users but instead I will suggest a real reason, its too cover the asses of those bringing the averages up.

    People tend to forget that covered in these averages are the earnings of TD's ministers, Judges and those at the very top of the various departments.


  • #343
    darlett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭darlett


    Stark wrote: »
    Same issues of subjectivity exist in all professions. Not sure why teachers are a special case.

    Would you wish to tie in teachers pay to the results of their students?

    As students results depend on things which are often nothing to do with ability and hard work the answer should be no.


    What makes teaching a special case profession is that for the next 2 and half weeks Im unemployed. I'm unemployed for June, July, August, Christmas and every other time that teacher's get 'great holidays' because I can't get a permanent roll to save myself. I have a science degree, and I did indeed pay the guts of 10 grand to get a teaching diploma, but I'm getting married in Summer its just not viable to continue if I hope to raise a family. I'd love to be getting paid over 30k but its just not happening right now. A special case profession indeed. I'm well qualified and experienced but I shall have to run back to working in pharmaceutical industry if I can.

    Or maybe use my fantastic holidays and learn to drive a luas. :pac:


  • #344
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    mariaalice wrote: »
    That a good point, it is to do with media spin from the unions and it is a minor part of the issue.

    That and it's apparently sacrilege to say they are not poorly paid. And Jesus they even use a Garda and a Nurse for average wage. To me that's ridiculous compared to average industrial private sector. The nurse and the Garda are apparently the Squeezed middle.


  • #345
    c_meth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭c_meth


    myshirt wrote: »
    They get the bulk of their rent sorted for them if they are in Dublin also. Always did.

    Not true. They get a flat rate payment, irrespective of location and (most) ranks, called Rent Allowance...worth 4k pa. Don't think new entrants get it.

    Worth mentioning that very few qualifications are required to join the guards. Would seem to be well paid for an unskilled job.


  • #346
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    406649.jpg


  • #347
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    c_meth wrote: »
    Not true. They get a flat rate payment, irrespective of location and (most) ranks, called Rent Allowance...worth 4k pa. Don't think new entrants get it.

    Worth mentioning that very few qualifications are required to join the guards. Would seem to be well paid for an unskilled job.


    I suspect the skill is in knowing who to know.


  • #348
    mad_cyclist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭mad_cyclist


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Why do all the stats show averages? Wouldn't the mode be more accurate? The mode is what MOST people are paid.


    Don't forget there are a lot of nurses who don't work shift - public health nurses, community nurses etc and so are paid the basic rate as they don't work unsocial hours.



    Public sector employees tend to cluster around the lower grades - not everyone can get promoted and very few will make it to the top. The low grades get paid not a lot, they have had to pay a Pension Levy as well as extra taxes, and most have had their hours increased






    37 k sounds pretty good for a very low skill job , clerical officer does less in general than an office secretary , answering phones , posting mail , my partner is a manager of a multinational retail store since 2006 , she earns 31 k gross and works saturday and sunday twice per month


  • #349
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    My sister in law is a nurse, has been for about 7 or 8 years. About 4 years ago or thereabouts, at more or less the height of the mortgage crisis - she could sashay into a bank, with not a penny in savings (she was gifted the 10% deposit) and come out with a big enough mortgage to buy a perfectly nice house in terenure. About a year later she took a year off to travel around the world and then waltzed back into her job, no questions asked. Apparently she can do that 4 more times, should she get itchy feet once more!
    Whatever about the nature of the work they do - they clearly are neither underpaid, nor overworked. (nor should they be, by the way - but you do get sick of the moaning sometimes!)

    When does the Big Bad Wolf, Snow White or Goldilocks come into your story?


  • #350
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    mad_cyclist wrote: »
    37 k sounds pretty good for a very low skill job , clerical officer does less in general than an office secretary , answering phones , posting mail , my partner is a manager of a multinational retail store since 2006 , she earns 31 k gross and works saturday and sunday twice per month

    So why did your partner not join the civil service in 2006?

    Hmm, was it by any chance that in 2006 the public sector was concidered a dumping ground for the unambitious happy to make an 'average' wage?

    Oh yeah, it was probable because no civil servants are property moguls like yourself.
    mad_cyclist wrote: »
    i own a few apartments
    mad_cyclist wrote: »
    i own both residential and commercial property

    ha ha ha, Im sure you have gained so much sympathy for your underpaid partner.


  • #351
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    c_meth wrote: »
    Not true. They get a flat rate payment, irrespective of location and (most) ranks, called Rent Allowance...worth 4k pa. Don't think new entrants get it.

    Worth mentioning that very few qualifications are required to join the guards. Would seem to be well paid for an unskilled job.

    Also worth pointing out that you have to complete a degree level course to actually become one.


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  • #352
    Dingle_berry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Dingle_berry


    thomasdylan wrote: »
    But you do realise lab staff don't deal directly with patients when they're sick and dying which is the hardest part of working in a hospital. You don't talk to families and don't deal with drunk/drugged/abusive patients. You can't expect parity with junior doctors who are directly in the firing line.
    No, Medical Scientists don't deal directly with the patient or the NOK. And yes that is the toughest part of hospital work. But it is also the most rewarding. Making those peoples lives easier, more comfortable or simply providing the answers to questions is my main reason for showing up each day. For someone whose main goal in work is to improve patient outcomes, never knowing the final outcome Is a different kind of hard than helping them through a negative outcome.
    thomasdylan wrote: »
    I do respect what you do but maybe its because my dealings with the lab are limited but I've never seen your job as being difficult in the same way nurses are. I would however consider nurses starting out to be well underpaid and they have more direct 1:1 with patients than I do. Tbh I'd see nurses starting out as possibly more deserving of a pay rise than either doctors or biochemists.
    It's your limited dealings with the lab. I would guess that your most memorable dealings with a lab have been when they have refused to process samples for you. I would bet that you've never spent a day in the lab. Seeing someone label
    A vial of blood or push a few buttons on the analyser is nothing like watching them race to get 6 RCCs cross matched, 4 plasma defrosted, platter lets ordered, replace emergency RCC, analyse FBC, coag and bio samples while communicating to the other wards why they may have to wait the hour for the bilirubin result on that patient who is already on phototherapy and is still jaundiced.
    It is a completely different environment from a ward. The patients are represented by inanimate samples. Our service users are the nurses and doctors who generally behave exactly like their patients. You have the ones who treat you like their servant, the ones who ignore your advice and requests, the ones who are grateful and the ones who listen to you, act on your professional advice and thus generally get the best outcome.
    thomasdylan wrote: »
    I admit my bias though, I'm a doctor so that colours my viewpoint. . And you're a qualified hospital biochemist presumably?
    Little bits of respect and courtesy go a long way to making people feel valued. It improves their moral and that improves their work, as much if not more than high pay does. As a doctor I would see you in the position of leading the team of healthcare professionals - not just nurses but everyone from physio to social worker. And yet you dont use the appropriate job title. I would bet that you would never call a midwife a nurse! Our title is Medical Scientist. We work in all areas of pathology and none of us are 'technicians'. A Clinical Biochemist is a special grade of Medical Scientist, they are becoming increasingly rare, are only found in a biochemistry lab and are a cross between a medical scientist & consultant biochemist (MD)


  • #353
    billyhead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭billyhead


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Also worth pointing out that you have to complete a degree level course to actually become one.

    Do they get a rent allowance irrespective of if there renting or paying a mortgage?


  • #354
    esforum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭esforum


    billyhead wrote: »
    Do they get a rent allowance irrespective of if they're renting or paying a mortgage?

    Older Gardai do, new recruits do not. Its paid to all older Gardai as a result of not being allowed get stationed within 50 miles of where they or relatives are from.


  • #355
    Yillan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Yillan


    xLisaBx wrote: »
    Equal pay. We want equal pay to junior doctors. Because living in Cork City for placement on 5 euro an hour is pretty impossible, there has been junior biomeds going to work without eating over it.

    I believe I'm right in thinking a 'junior biomed' is a student on placement in a hospital? This equivalence between what you're calling 'junior biomeds' and junior doctors does not exist.

    I would probably stop going about telling people that third year med lab undergraduate students should earn the same hourly rate as graduated doctors. Cork City or not.


  • #356
    Dingle_berry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Dingle_berry


    Yillan wrote: »
    I believe I'm right in thinking a 'junior biomed' is a student on placement in a hospital? This equivalence between what you're calling 'junior biomeds' and junior doctors does not exist.

    I would probably stop going about telling people that third year med lab undergraduate students should earn the same hourly rate as graduated doctors. Cork City or not.

    In cork a medical scientist on their placement year has already graduated with an honours degree. So they are an equivalent to an intern doctor.
    You're thinking of students in DIT or GMIT that do placement as a part of third year of their honours BSc. They would not be equivalent to an intern. Though they are paid the exact same as the cork graduate


  • #357
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,283 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    billyhead wrote: »
    Do they get a rent allowance irrespective of if there renting or paying a mortgage?


    http://www.gra.cc/rent.shtml


  • #358
    xLisaBx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭xLisaBx


    Yillan wrote: »
    I believe I'm right in thinking a 'junior biomed' is a student on placement in a hospital? This equivalence between what you're calling 'junior biomeds' and junior doctors does not exist.

    I would probably stop going about telling people that third year med lab undergraduate students should earn the same hourly rate as graduated doctors. Cork City or not.

    They do have the degree already, the intern year is the equivalent to the Junior Doctor year, with 2 X 5,000 word thesis' due and regular examination. It's horrendous just how uneducated the general public are about this.


  • #359
    c_meth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭c_meth


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Also worth pointing out that you have to complete a degree level course to actually become one.

    True. Albeit it an ordinary level degree (level 7 NFQ) provided by the Guarda College in Tipperary.


  • #360
    c_meth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭c_meth


    mad_cyclist wrote: »
    The low grades get paid not a lot, they have had to pay a Pension Levy as well as extra taxes, and most have had their hours increased...


    The lower grades are probably better paid than their equivalents in the private sector. The higher grades are paid worse than their equivalents in the private sector. But nobody likes to hear that...


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  • #361
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    Dingle_berry wrote: »
    No, Medical Scientists don't deal directly with the patient or the NOK. And yes that is the toughest part of hospital work. But it is also the most rewarding. Making those peoples lives easier, more comfortable or simply providing the answers to questions is my main reason for showing up each day. For someone whose main goal in work is to improve patient outcomes, never knowing the final outcome Is a different kind of hard than helping them through a negative outcome.

    It's your limited dealings with the lab. I would guess that your most memorable dealings with a lab have been when they have refused to process samples for you. I would bet that you've never spent a day in the lab. Seeing someone label
    A vial of blood or push a few buttons on the analyser is nothing like watching them race to get 6 RCCs cross matched, 4 plasma defrosted, platter lets ordered, replace emergency RCC, analyse FBC, coag and bio samples while communicating to the other wards why they may have to wait the hour for the bilirubin result on that patient who is already on phototherapy and is still jaundiced.
    It is a completely different environment from a ward. The patients are represented by inanimate samples. Our service users are the nurses and doctors who generally behave exactly like their patients. You have the ones who treat you like their servant, the ones who ignore your advice and requests, the ones who are grateful and the ones who listen to you, act on your professional advice and thus generally get the best outcome.


    Little bits of respect and courtesy go a long way to making people feel valued. It improves their moral and that improves their work, as much if not more than high pay does. As a doctor I would see you in the position of leading the team of healthcare professionals - not just nurses but everyone from physio to social worker. And yet you dont use the appropriate job title. I would bet that you would never call a midwife a nurse! Our title is Medical Scientist. We work in all areas of pathology and none of us are 'technicians'. A Clinical Biochemist is a special grade of Medical Scientist, they are becoming increasingly rare, are only found in a biochemistry lab and are a cross between a medical scientist & consultant biochemist (MD)


    You're right that I don't know much about your job, I really don't. I send a sample off to the lab, a couple of hours later results are on the system, what happens in between is a beautiful mystery. And my dealings with the lab in the hospitals I've worked in have been universally very positive. If I've made a mistake, if I want add on tests the medical scientists have generally been as accommodating as possible. I've only ever had two very negative experiences with the lab over the past few years which is pretty good going. The name thing was ignorance on my part and wasn't intended disrespectfully.

    But it does work both ways, I don't know much about your job and I'd say you know only a bit more about mine. I don't agree that medical scientists should be paid as well as doctors as it had been suggested because we have to make the diagnosis (albeit helped by results from the lab, imaging from radiology, and clinical examination and history taking by ourselves), we have to decide on treatment, it's our responsibility. We work longer hours than anyone else in the hospital, break the bad news to patients and family when they've no options left, have to decide who to admit and who to discharge when there aren't enough beds. It's human nature to focus on the bad stuff, I'll feel okay for a while following a good result but when one of my patients dies unexpectedly the next few days are full of what ifs and guilt even if there was nothing could have been done. And things are worse for nurses, I see "my" patients for maybe 10 mins a day each if they're stable, a nurse will be with them all shift so it's tougher for them when things happen.

    I do respect the job you do and I wouldn't be able to do mine properly without it so i didn't mean any of that in a disrespectful way.
    (One question about what you said just for my own interest, what kind of professional advice are you allowed to give? Just might be useful for myself in future).


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