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A Slow Journey to Faster Times

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,779 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    That's incredibly consistent. By feel or watching the pace?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Murph_D wrote: »
    That's incredibly consistent. By feel or watching the pace?

    Bit of both :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Murph_D wrote: »
    That's incredibly consistent.

    +1 makes mine look all over the place :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Tomorrow's musings:

    Cheltenham 2016

    Day 3


    1:30 JLT Novice's Chase

    I have doubts about plenty of the runners here. Most near the top of the market have shown a marked preference for soft ground which is hugely off putting considering the current going. Bristol De Mai didn't run here last year for that reason, while Outlander disappointed when favourite for the Neptune. Black Hercules also ran poorly at the 2015 festival when strongly fancied for the Albert Bartlett and comes here off the back of a fall. Most of his best form is on heavy. L'Ami Serge won his Grade 1 over hurdles on deep ground, and although he ran ok behind Douvan in the Supreme he was badly beaten by Violet Dancer last time. Of the runners remaining I'm going to take a chance on Zabana & Three Musketeers. Zabana ran very badly at Leopardstown last month, but had been impressive over Christmas and went very close to winning at last year's meeting when second in the Coral Cup. He followed that up with a third to Jezki & Hurricane Fly at Punchestown. Both those runs were on better ground, which he'll definitely appreciate here. Three Musketeers is fairly unexposed and has been targeted at this race all season. He ran poorly here on New Year's Day, but that was his only start on heavy ground which he obviously didn't like. On his form before that, he's got a chance.

    Verdict: Back Zabana @ 12/1 & Three Musketeers @ 10/1


    2:10 Pertemps Final

    This race is probably choc full of plot jobs, but one I like with good handicap form who may be capable of his current mark is Westren Warrior @ 25/1.

    Verdict: Back Westren Warrior e/w @ 25/1


    2:50 Ryanair Chase

    This looked a poor renewal and a wide open race until Vautour was rerouted here from the Gold Cup. He looks a certainty, but he's also priced up that way at odds-on. Taquin Du Seuil looks the value each way alternative at 20/1. He's also available at 10/1 in the w/o Vautour market.

    Verdict: Back Taquin Du Seuil e/w without Vautour @ 10/1


    3:30 World Hudle

    Thistlecrack is a very solid favourite here and will probably win. Again though, he's a very short price for a horse who's never previously run at the festival. If Saphir Du Rheu came back to the form he was in when second here last year he'd have a decent chance, but the reason he's 10/1 is because he hasn't shown that sort of form recently. I'll take a chance that he can bounce back at the price.

    Verdict: Back Saphir Du Rheu e/w @ 10/1


    4:10 Brown Advisory Plate

    Another nightmare of a handicap with lots of chances. I did like Barry Geraghty getting down to 10-4 to ride Full Shift, while Fingal Bay looks well treated compared to his old hurdles form. Both are priced up that way however, and I'll leave them win at their current odds without my money on them. This is not a race where the fancied horses have a good record. I therefore feel compelled to go with something further down the market and I think I've found a live one. Le Vaticane is 5lb well in here after a wide margin win last time and still only carries 10-7. I have a feeling this may have been the plan all season. He'll do.

    Verdict: Back La Vaticane e/w @ 20/1


    4:50 Mares Novice Hurdle

    Limini is all the rage in this market since it was opened. On all known form she'll be hard to beat. Smart Talk is solid, but you'd imagine the Mullins mare will have too much for her. There are a couple of less exposed types like Bloody Mary, but they've got a lot to find on bare form. One to watch I think.

    Verdict: No bet


    5:30 Kim Muir Handicap Chase

    Doctor Harper is the talking horse here, having looked like he's been lined up for this all season. However last year's NH Chase winner Cause Of Causes has everything in his favour again here and looks a fair price. Top amateur Jamie Codd is booked to ride too and he's ridden the winner three times in recent years.

    Verdict: Back Cause Of Causes @ 6/1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭neilc


    Didn't get to watch today, how'd day 2 tips go?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    neilc wrote: »
    Didn't get to watch today, how'd day 2 tips go?

    That's just mean


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭neilc


    Gavlor wrote: »
    That's just mean

    :o ha ha genuinely hadn't checked, take it they didn't go well so!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    neilc wrote: »
    Didn't get to watch today, how'd day 2 tips go?
    Gavlor wrote: »
    That's just mean
    neilc wrote: »
    :o ha ha genuinely hadn't checked, take it they didn't go well so!

    Still no winners, but some nice place payouts at big prices (14/1 & 33/1).
    Still slightly ahead.
    Thursday is usually a bloodbath though.
    Fingers crossed :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,202 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    Still no winners, but some nice place payouts at big prices (14/1 & 33/1).
    Still slightly ahead.
    Thursday is usually a bloodbath though.
    Fingers crossed :)

    It's all about Friday at this stage!

    To summarise my week, had battleford in a syndicate bet in the last.....

    Oh and I had Nina in the cross country


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Would have been a total bloodbath today only for Cause Of Causes in the last. How the f*ck did Vautour go off evens?

    Anyway, Day 4:


    1:30 Triumph Hurdle

    This looks a poor renewal with no standout candidate and everything beating each other. Who Dares Wins was a decent flat horse and will be suited by better ground than he encountered at Cheltenham last time. He may be better than the bare result of that race considering he got into a prolonged battle for the lead a long way from home. He looks a fair price at 12/1 in an open contest.

    Verdict: Back Who Dares Wins e/w @ 12/1


    2:10 County Hurdle

    As difficult as ever to solve, I'm going to plump for last year's bumper runner up Modus. He looks like he could be well handicapped after some recent defeats on soft ground for Paul Nicholls who has a good record in this race.

    Verdict: Back Modus e/w @ 16/1


    2:50 Albert Bartlett Novice Hurdle

    A decent looking contest with the unbeaten Barters Hill and a couple of Willie Mullins Grade 1 winners amongst the field. However I'm going to go elsewhere to find the winner. I really like the look of Shantou Village whose only defeat came behind Yanworth here on heavy ground. He should be suited by the sounder surface and the step up in trip.

    Verdict: Back Shantou Village @ 9/2


    3:30 Gold Cup

    I'm all over Don Poli, an out and out Gold Cup horse if ever I saw one. In my opinion, he's got the least questions to answer of the big four, yet he's the biggest price. Get on!

    Verdict: Back Don Poli @ 5/1


    4:10 Foxhunters Chase

    On The Fringe looks a level above these on his day, but his only run since last season was a poor seventh at Leopardstown last month. Current Event looks an interesting contender. He wasn't suited by the soft ground when well beaten in last year's renewal, but could be a different proposition on the sounder surface tomorrow.

    Verdict: Back Current Event e/w @ 20/1


    4:50 Martin Pipe Conditionals Handicap Hurdle

    Willie Mullins has done well in this recently, so I'll plump for one of his for the interest. Whiteout looks interesting contesting his first handicap and can hopefully add to the tally of this year's leading trainer. Not a race to be confident about though.

    Verdict: Back Whiteout e/w @ 25/1


    5:30 Grand Annual Handicap Chase

    This isn't much easier than the previous race. Sizing Codelco is a lightly raced horse with some useful lines of form. His trainer's horses usually improve for fences and he may be capable of scoring off his current mark.

    Verdict: Back Sizing Codelco e/w @ 16/1


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Friday 18th March - 15m M/L Run
    15m @ 8:25p/m average (139bpm avg)


    Ended up taking yesterday off, so out at 5:30am for this. Delighted to get it done. That's 34 miles since Tuesday now. If I can get a decent long run done in the next few days it will be a satisfactory week, in one that's usually a write off for me training wise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Saturday 19th March - 45 minutes Easy
    5.32m @ 8:29p/m average (128bpm avg)


    Easy one home from work.

    Sunday 20th March - 170 minutes Easy
    20m @ 8:29p/m average (137bpm avg)


    Up at an ungodly hour again to get this in before work. Couldn't have fit it in otherwise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Monday 21st March - Rest

    As prescribed.


    Tuesday 22nd March

    (A.M) - 45 minutes Recovery
    5.06m @ 8:54p/m average (116bpm avg)

    (P.M) - 50 minutes Recovery
    5.43m @ 9:12p/m average (118bpm avg)


    Tried to keep the HR below 120bpm on these. Managed it, but still didn't feel as easy as that pace should.


    Wednesday 23rd March - 11m (with 6x1k @VO2 Max)

    This felt like the worst session I've ever done. Target was 5:55p/m pace (3:41p/km). Couldn't hit that and had to walk the last three recoveries. Embarrassing!

    W/u (3k) - 16:19 (8:46p/m pace)

    Rep 1 - 3:40
    Rep 2 - 3:40
    Rep 3 - 3:41
    Rep 4 - 3:41
    Rep 5 - 3:46
    Rep 6 - 3:42

    C/d - (4.6m) - 42:10 (9:10p/m pace)


    Recoveries were 1:45. Even trudging home at 9:10 pace, the average HR was 138bpm. Really disappointed with how this went.


    Thursday 24th March - 15m Med/Long Run
    15m @ 8:21p/m average (135bpm avg)


    Nothing to add.


    Friday 25th March - 70 minutes Easy
    8.21m @ 8:32p/m average (132bpm avg)


    My first day off work for ten days. Had a bit of a lie in before getting out for this. Lovely morning, but again I struggled. Just feel so lethargic & exhausted. Recovery run in the morning and then 20m either Sunday or Monday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    Hope your not coming down with whatever half of the D3 crew seems to have! Mind yourself...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    yaboya1 wrote: »

    W/u (3k) - 16:19 (8:46p/m pace)

    Rep 1 - 3:40
    Rep 2 - 3:40
    Rep 3 - 3:41
    Rep 4 - 3:41
    Rep 5 - 3:46
    Rep 6 - 3:42

    C/d - (4.6m) - 42:10 (9:10p/m pace)


    Recoveries were 1:45. Even trudging home at 9:10 pace, the average HR was 138bpm. Really disappointed with how this went.

    I wouldn't be too disappointed with that if I was you, P. I think you were a little aggressive on the recovery. I did the same session off 2:20 recovery. Prescribed recovery is 50-90% time recover so even if you were running 3:30 reps you would have been on the very tightest recovery time. My 2:20 would have given me 66% at 3:30 pace so I knew it would be closer to 60% in reality as I was unlikely to hit 3:30 which was still the lower end of the range so don't think I was being too generous at this point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Saturday 26th March - 55 minutes Recovery
    6.09m @ 9:02p/m average (122bpm avg)


    Miserable morning for it. Some contrast to yesterday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Sunday 27th March - 21m (with 5-4-3-2-1 @MP)
    15m @ 6:43p/m average (MP miles)


    I was dreading this, as I wasn't confident based on recent training that I could run anything close to what I'd like to in Boston. When I eventually got out to the PP this evening, there was a strong wind blowing along with some bad hailstones at one point. Given I'd be running with/against & across the wind, I decided to try and ignore the watch as much as possible and go with a solid effort I thought was sustainable. Pretty knackered after it, but happy to have it over with.

    *Recoveries were 800m between reps.*

    2m w/u: 8:08, 7:51

    5m@MP: 6:56, 6:47, 6:39, 6:38, 6:41

    4m@MP: 6:47, 6:44, 6:40, 6:38

    3m@MP: 6:46, 6:40, 6:54

    2m@MP: 6:36, 6:41

    1m@MP: 6:41

    2m c/d: 8:32, 8:12



    Mileage/plan wise, it was another solid week (pace-wise maybe not :p). Nothing much more I can do now, other than get to the start line healthy in three weeks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    With three weeks to go, I have dumped both the P&D and Daniels plans. I am now following the PD (Daniel) plan :D.

    Monday 28th March - Rest

    Felt like a deserved day off after Sunday's effort.

    Tuesday 29th March - 45 minutes Easy
    5.29m @ 8:30p/m average (128bpm avg)


    Still a bit tired. Happy enough to leave it at that for today.

    Wednesday 30th March - Yasso 800 Session
    10.08m total


    Thought I'd give this a go again.

    1m w/u - 8:28

    Rep 1 - 2:58
    Rep 2 - 2:59
    Rep 3 - 2:57
    Rep 4 - 2:59
    Rep 5 - 2:56
    Rep 6 - 3:01
    Rep 7 - 2:52
    Rep 8 - 2:51
    Rep 9 - 3:02
    Rep 10 - 2:52

    1m c/d - 8:45


    Last time I did this, I averaged 2:53 and ran 2:59 in Berlin. This time I averaged 2:57. It'll do.

    Thursday 31st March - 105 minutes Easy
    13m @ 8:04p/m average (131bpm avg)


    Thoroughly enjoyed this. Felt really effortless.


    I'm taking another rest day tomorrow and will do my final 20m run on Saturday. After that I'm just going to keep myself ticking over for the next fortnight. Can't make any more fitness gains, but could easily f*ck it up by doing something stupid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,237 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    2 real good sessions.
    The 5-4-3-2-1 Session is suberb - even more so as it was off 800m.
    Great turnaround in training.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    2 real good sessions.
    The 5-4-3-2-1 Session is suberb - even more so as it was off 800m.
    Great turnaround in training.

    Thanks a lot.
    I'm hoping I can turn around that awful New York result now too :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Friday 1st April - 30m Long Run

    April Fools! :pac:
    Rest day as planned.....

    Saturday 2nd April - 160 minutes Easy
    20m @ 8:00p/m average


    Horrible day for it. Got absolutely saturated from start to finish, but it's my last long run out of the way and in the bank. The watch updated itself just before I started this and never gave me a HR reading for the entire workout. Therefore I obviously have no average. Felt easy enough though and the pace was pretty much the same as Thursday's MLR.

    Sunday 3rd April - 45 minutes Easy
    5.26m @8:33p/m average (118bpm avg)


    Just an easy one to shake the legs out after yesterday. Soaked again!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    So, this marathon cycle since is just about complete. I know I've still got two weeks to go, but I won't be fretting over what I do/don't get done in that time. In my opinion, anything that's going to affect my performance already has/hasn't been completed.

    Not for the first time, my training hasn't been perfect with some slightly disappointing race results along the way. However, many times in the past I've run pbs all the way up to the marathon, before performing below expectations there. I'm hoping the reverse can be true in this case.

    To summarise....

    Positives

    More than 1000 miles logged since the NYC Marathon
    Average of 50-60mpw
    6 runs of 20m+ runs (2 with more than 50% MP miles)

    Negatives

    Missed training due to holidays/niggle
    Average race results
    Failure to hit paces in some key sessions

    Thoughts

    Although I missed some training in February, I feel it came at the right time as I had enough time left before the marathon to throw myself back into solid training and get some consistency back. A month later would have been a lot more damaging. I also feel the little break actually did me some good. I still managed to log 100 miles in February despite the layoff, which wasn't disastrous. As mentioned in my Ballycotton report at the time, my Vdot still pointed to a pb marathon off that race performance, with 6 weeks still remaining to get even fitter. In the 4 weeks since, I've averaged around 60mpw with that day being the only weekend since I got back to Ireland that I didn't post a run of 20 miles or more. It's been further rammed home to me in the past few weeks (due to the experiences of myself & others) what the most difficult thing about the marathon is. It's not getting to the start line or running the race in the best time you possibly can. It's getting yourself to the start line in the best possible condition, which will then allow you the opportunity to run to your potential. There's a really fine line between under/over doing it in training. I'm hoping I'm coming to the boil myself just in time :cool:. As we all know, a lot of things can happen on the day to influence results, but that is beyond anyone's control.

    Conclusion

    I've got a chance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Monday 4th April - Rest

    As prescribed.

    Tuesday 5th April - Rest

    Took an extra rest day. No need to take any chances now.

    Wednesday 6th April - 60 minutes Easy
    7m @ 8:40p/m average (134bpm avg)


    Blowing a gale outside. Pace slower than I'd expect for the HR.

    Thursday 7th April - 45 minutes Easy
    5.31m @ 8:29p/m average (130bpm avg)


    Plenty of errands to attend to today, so got this done in the morning before all that. Perfect weather for it and no better place than the PP in such conditions. Threw in 8x100m strides at the end, four into the wind & four against. Timed them just to give me an idea of the pace. Averaged about 20 seconds for each one.

    Friday 8th April - 9m (with 3x1600m @VO2 Max)

    Initially wasn't bothered about fitting this session in, but had some extra time and decided if I took the scenic route to work I'd manage it. Target was sub 6:00 for the three 1600m reps. Managed to almost completely avoid looking at the watch for most of the workout, so pretty pleased with the splits.


    W/u (2m) - 8:50, 8:40

    Rep 1 - 5:57
    Rep 2 - 5:54
    Rep 3 - 5:55

    *0.5m recoveries*

    C/d - (3m) - 8:02, 8:32, 8:26



    Tomorrow will either be a few very easy recovery miles or another day of complete rest, while Sunday sees my final double figure run of the cycle. I've managed to convince at least one of my fellow Boston hopefuls to join me for that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Sunday 10th April - 13m Med/Long Run
    13m @8:29p/m average (132bpm avg)


    Last run of any real length before the big one. Had the pleasure of Murph_D's company to help the miles tick by quicker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭aero2k


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    Sunday 10th April - 13m Med/Long Run
    13m @8:29p/m average (132bpm avg)


    Last run of any real length before the big one. Had the pleasure of Murph_D's company to help the miles tick by quicker.

    I hope the pair of you heard my good luck shout yesterday - looking forward to great performances.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,779 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    aero2k wrote: »
    I hope the pair of you heard my good luck shout yesterday - looking forward to great performances.

    I thought you were shouting to get off your course! :) (aero looked like he was on marshalling duty for GIR). Cheers, and thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    aero2k wrote: »
    I hope the pair of you heard my good luck shout yesterday

    I thought you didn't recognise me tbh. Was debating it with Murph for the next two minutes :pac:
    aero2k wrote: »
    looking forward to great performances.

    Me too :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭aero2k


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    I thought you didn't recognise me tbh. Was debating it with Murph for the next two minutes :pac:

    I said "Hello P" - it was Murph I didn't recognise immediately due to the hat.


    Yep, marshaling but thankfully only for the first race - I had lost all feeling in my hands and feet by 11am.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    And finally, P.

    Wishing you all the very best in Boston.

    I'm not sure I can stalk on strava. I hope you have a great race.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    aquinn wrote: »
    And finally, P.

    Wishing you all the very best in Boston.

    I'm not sure I can stalk on strava. I hope you have a great race.

    Thanks :)


    *I'm not on Strava


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