Do you have a pension?

Permabear · 15-03-2016 03:33PM

This post has been deleted.

mad muffin · 15-03-2016 03:35PM

I lost my pension in the great Goldman Sachs pension grab of 2008.

jimgoose · 15-03-2016 03:36PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You see, to hardcore lefties what's unethical isn't melting down all the one-legged Ethiopian lesbians and moulding them into Range Rover tyres, it's the notion of anyone having a tenner or a bit to eat that wasn't provided by the almighty State. :pac:

AlexisM · 15-03-2016 03:48PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

If I could give this post 100 thumbs up I would...

KB, you are really scraping the barrel and talking rubbish here.

For anyone currently paying high-rate tax and who will be low/no tax-payers in retirement, it is really a no-brainer to invest via a pension. It is extremely poor advice and scare-mongering to suggest otherwise.

Ironically given where your stance is, the biggest threat to private pension pots is from the government via levies and potential changes to the tax regime. The move to defined contribution and PRSAs (while on paper more risky and potentially lower than defined benefit schemes) has given each worker their own pot which is legally protected - it can't be swiped to be given back to the company or another retiree. I think you may just have a poor understanding of how pensions work.

mahoganygas · 15-03-2016 03:57PM

mad muffin wrote: »

I lost my pension in the great Goldman Sachs pension grab of 2008.

What happened?

15-03-2016 04:29PM

AlexisM wrote: »

The move to defined contribution and PRSAs (while on paper more risky and potentially lower than defined benefit schemes) has given each worker their own pot which is legally protected - it can't be swiped to be given back to the company or another retiree. I think you may just have a poor understanding of how pensions work.

Yes. Very important point.

KomradeBishop · 15-03-2016 04:29PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I've encouraged people to be more cynical and discerning towards private pensions - pointing out a lot of issues many posters hadn't thought of before - I'm not wholesale telling people to avoid any kind of pension investments, so don't misrepresent me that way.

The reality is, that private pensions don't work out well enough for everybody - and that the state support is a vital fallback, and will remain so far into the future - one that everybody can benefit from by bolstering properly.

KomradeBishop · 15-03-2016 04:31PM

AlexisM wrote: »

If I could give this post 100 thumbs up I would...

KB, you are really scraping the barrel and talking rubbish here.

For anyone currently paying high-rate tax and who will be low/no tax-payers in retirement, it is really a no-brainer to invest via a pension. It is extremely poor advice and scare-mongering to suggest otherwise.

Ironically given where your stance is, the biggest threat to private pension pots is from the government via levies and potential changes to the tax regime. The move to defined contribution and PRSAs (while on paper more risky and potentially lower than defined benefit schemes) has given each worker their own pot which is legally protected - it can't be swiped to be given back to the company or another retiree. I think you may just have a poor understanding of how pensions work.

If you debate with me, argue against what I post, not what someone aiming to misrepresent me, posts in my place.

Don't pretend you are talking to me when replying to a straw-man like that.

mahoganygas · 15-03-2016 04:39PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

The reality is, that private pensions don't work out well enough for everybody - and that the state support is a vital fallback, and will remain so far into the future - one that everybody can benefit from by bolstering properly.

I agree. A state pension is required as a backup but it's also important to reward our OAP's for serving their country and allow them to retire in peace.
As an aside, I'd fully support paying more tax to look after our elderly.

Curious. Hypothetically, where would you recommend I put my money?
As you said, you offer plenty of cynicism but i'd love to hear which investments (if any) you do support?

ancapailldorcha · 15-03-2016 04:44PM

As much as I agree with the sentiment of wanting the elderly to have a high standard of living upon reaching retirement, using taxation to fund this is untenable. The Irish state spends huge sums already on welfare. Increasing this is just more money down the rabbit hole, especially considering the amount of wasted potential of our young people on the dole. I'd rather see state schemes aimed at teaching younger people about setting up their own business, IT skills and qualifications that will help them succeed in the private sector along with investment to other areas like infrastructure which would create jobs and lower unemployment. Older people cost the state money. In addition, they are living ever long lives increasing this cost and are more likely to suffer from chronic diseases such as dementia and cancer. I believe that they should be cared for of course but we need a better solution that simply throwing more money at the problem when we have swathes of young people with skills leaving the country in droves.

AlexisM · 15-03-2016 04:53PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Private sector pensions are undergoing increasing shortfalls, which are partially linked to the same demographic problems being presented against public pensions (set to worsen as more economic crisis hits) - and even the private pensions which aren't inherently subject to this demographic issue, are likely to be affected by it, as they will probably be raided to make up the shortfall of other funds (similar to how the insurance industry, has been made to effectively bail out other failed/fraudulent insurers).

This is just making stuff up. ‘Likely’ and ‘probably’ show that these are just your opinions. The move to defined contribution and PRSAs (while on paper more risky and potentially lower than defined benefit schemes) has given each worker their own pot which is legally protected - it can't be swiped to be given back to the company or another retiree. Only a DB pension can have a shortfall and they are becoming increasingly rare, as you point out. I think you may just have a poor understanding of how pensions work.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

The crisis also gave companies an excuse to gut pension plans overall. The switch from the volatile Defined Benefit pensions (placing the burden of funding on the employer, and thus on corporate profits), to the Defined Contribution pensions (placing the burden of funding primarily on the employee, taking far less of a share of corporate profits than DB schemes) - the latter provide far less of a payment out to employees, and is far less likely to provide adequate retirement savings.
So, it's a shítty time to be getting into pension investments - wages are getting squeezed, and actual employer payments on pensions are getting squeezed as well - i.e. companies are paying you less (funding is getting spread thinner...), and are shifting more of their share of the burden of pensions, onto employees - and the legacy of past volatile pension arrangements, has yet to be resolved. Private pensions are a mixed bag for most of the public, and are no substitute for a proper public pension safety net.

More made up stuff here. Reduced employer contributions mean it’s the exact opposite of a shítty time to be getting into a pension investment. If an employer doesn’t contribute, you suggest just digging in the heels and saying well I’m not investing either? Doesn’t sound like the greatest plan in the world to be honest…

mahoganygas · 15-03-2016 05:00PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

As much as I agree with the sentiment of wanting the elderly to have a high standard of living upon reaching retirement, using taxation to fund this is untenable. The Irish state spends huge sums already on welfare. Increasing this is just more money down the rabbit hole, especially considering the amount of wasted potential of our young people on the dole. I'd rather see state schemes aimed at teaching younger people about setting up their own business, IT skills and qualifications that will help them succeed in the private sector along with investment to other areas like infrastructure which would create jobs and lower unemployment. Older people cost the state money. In addition, they are living ever long lives increasing this cost and are more likely to suffer from chronic diseases such as dementia and cancer. I believe that they should be cared for of course but we need a better solution that simply throwing more money at the problem when we have swathes of young people with skills leaving the country in droves.

I disagree, but only slightly.

The sad reality is that older people are now facing longer drawn out deaths from those chronic diseases. On top of that we have a broken health system so these people are not receiving the compassionate care they deserve at that age. So many families will be forced to take their elderly parents under their roof for the last few years of their lives because the state will no longer be able to afford adequate care.

I'm terrified of growing old in this country. More so than losing my job.

Old people cost the state money, yes. We have no way of recouping these welfare payments as they are never going to re-enter the workforce. But it's a cost i'd happily pay rather than prop up the thousands of younger people who can work but won't work.

ancapailldorcha · 15-03-2016 05:48PM

mahoganygas wrote: »

I disagree, but only slightly.

The sad reality is that older people are now facing longer drawn out deaths from those chronic diseases. On top of that we have a broken health system so these people are not receiving the compassionate care they deserve at that age. So many families will be forced to take their elderly parents under their roof for the last few years of their lives because the state will no longer be able to afford adequate care.

Indeed. They'll likely have to give up their jobs or go part time and so make do with greater expenses twinned with a significantly lowered income.

mahoganygas wrote: »

I'm terrified of growing old in this country. More so than losing my job.

I'm terrified of growing old in general to be honest. Dementia, cancer and all kinds of frailty related disorders await us.

mahoganygas wrote: »

Old people cost the state money, yes. We have no way of recouping these welfare payments as they are never going to re-enter the workforce. But it's a cost i'd happily pay rather than prop up the thousands of younger people who can work but won't work.

Here, I'll disagree. I'd wager that plenty of younger people would happily work but for whatever reason are stuck at home claiming benefits. I emigrated along with many others. Foreign countries gain fully qualified, English speaking young people ready to spend about 50 years paying tax. Regardless, pensions need to come from somewhere and I'm quite happy to pay tax for them as well of course. The problem is that we have an ageing population with the ratio of young to old shifting towards the latter. Japan and Germany are due significant population contractions (33% and 25% by 2060 I've read) so this is something that needs addressing urgently.

blinding · 15-03-2016 05:54PM

When I get to 62 years I Shall get Myself elected to the Dail.

Pension problem solved in one handy move !

enoughalready · 15-03-2016 06:11PM

I started working in the public sector earlier this year and can't understand the pension side of things, currently I pay 3% of my wages into the pension pot, do you know if my employer are matching my 3% and can I increase my 3% contribution to say 7%?

catbear · 15-03-2016 06:15PM

I worked in the public for a few years, the last balance I saw had my fund worth less than I'd put into it.

Recently had an australian superfund, it took a bit of knock with the commodity bust but at least I'd moved most of the fund into cash.

Do any private pensions in IReland allow you to decide the makeup of your pension fund?

mahoganygas · 15-03-2016 06:30PM

catbear wrote: »

Do any private pensions in IReland allow you to decide the makeup of your pension fund?

A provider will usually give you a choice of 3 or more, each with a higher risk profile. You can sink it all into a cash and bond fund, or spread it out across a few different risk profiles.

Most advise front loading the equity funds in your 20's then gradually move more and more into the cash/bond funds as you approach retirement.

Your last few years before retiring should be virtually risk free. Very safe bonds. You don't want any last minute market shocks (2008 recession) to wipe out much/all of your gains over the years.

Valmont · 15-03-2016 06:43PM

I started a pension seven months ago but I'm worried that thirty or forty years from now, when the ratio of retirees to workers worsens, that broke states are going to raid the private pensions (well they will if KomradeBishop has his say:P). Is there any easy way to invest in some international pension that nobody could get their hands on? I was even thinking about cashing it in and buying loads of gold but that can't be a good idea.

Earthhorse · 15-03-2016 07:08PM

It's old people's fault for ageing and young people's fault for not working, the lazy sods. Personally speaking I have never been young and have no plans to age.

Permabear · 15-03-2016 07:34PM

This post has been deleted.

catbear · 15-03-2016 08:02PM

Valmont wrote: »

I started a pension seven months ago but I'm worried that thirty or forty years from now, when the ratio of retirees to workers worsens, that broke states are going to raid the private pensions (well they will if KomradeBishop has his say:P). Is there any easy way to invest in some international pension that nobody could get their hands on? I was even thinking about cashing it in and buying loads of gold but that can't be a good idea.

I've had the same thoughts. I just assume whatever I put aside in both public and private pensions will be raided, just like our wallets were raped to keep the Irish banks in a position to hire former GAA stars as financial advisors.

Permabear · 15-03-2016 08:18PM

This post has been deleted.

hmmm · 15-03-2016 08:18PM

catbear wrote: »

I've had the same thoughts. I just assume whatever I put aside in both public and private pensions will be raided

I'd have the same fears, which is why you need to get out and vote for parties that have sensible policies, and put the pressure on politicians who canvas. I told my local TD she had lost my vote partly because of the pension levy.

The other thing we need to do is pressure politicians to stop changing the rules every year. Pensions are a 20/30/40 year investment, and people need certainty.

No matter what my fears are of future idiot Irish governments, I'm a lot more comfortable with trying to provide for myself in my old age and not have to rely on a government pension.

15-03-2016 08:24PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Must be why they brought in a life assurance premium levy

Permabear · 15-03-2016 08:28PM

This post has been deleted.

Thargor · 15-03-2016 09:33PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

There's nothing hard about doing a bit of due diligence, when researching a company, to check for easily found ethical violations - the reason I'm not going to provide any examples, is because other posters are going to nitpick at any examples given 'reductio ad absurdum' style (especially given that some already resort to shít-stirring) - i.e. trying to find petty ethical violations - so they can try to pin that as being comparable to my point of view, to try and trivialize the (non-petty) ethical violations I look out for (like e.g. not recalling products that a company knows are not fit for purpose, which severely harm peoples health, in the example I gave earlier).

Thats not the reason you wont give any examples, the actual reason is simply that you cant.

Permabear · 15-03-2016 10:29PM

This post has been deleted.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 15-03-2016 11:04PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

If we followed his rationale we'd all be broke, with investments not meeting inflation let alone funding retirement.

All I know is I paid into a pension, kept a good eye on it, and retired in my 50s. Now 72 and I have a six figure sum in an instant access account and a pension in excess of 55k per annum. A decent pension fund is extremely tax efficient and any advice to not take out a pension, or even invest where returns can actually be gained, is ill founded, malevolent and spiteful.

Permabear · 15-03-2016 11:26PM

This post has been deleted.

Ush1 · 15-03-2016 11:27PM

Just on this guys. I had paid into a company pension for a while but then switched jobs so it's just sitting there. I'm currently 31 but my life expectancy is 60-65.

Is it still worth me paying into a pension if I may not live to reap the rewards?:(

Do you have a pension?

Comments