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Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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Comments

  • #212
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Great. This proves my point - walking the tightrope is dangerous.

    Especially with people shooting at ya :pac:


  • #213
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,925 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    Put it this way.

    You've to walk a tightrope between two buildings.
    Now, You've to walk a tightrope between two buildings while trying to catch someone on the other side and avoid being shot at.

    Or you turn up 2 hours later, the someone on the other side is long gone, so too the person with the gun............ so you spend on hour trying to find out does someone have a license for the tight rope.


  • #214
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Augeo wrote: »
    Or you turn up 2 hours later, the someone on the other side is long gone, so too the person with the gun............ so you spend on hour trying to find out does someone have a license for the tight rope.

    Ah now we have it :rolleyes:


  • #215
    Martypants1
    Site Banned Posts: 806 ✭✭✭Martypants1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Please read the posts. I've listed other professions that are dangerous.
    None of them have maniacs deliberately targeting them though.
    Your own assertions are the real ridiculous ones.

    Why does it matter whether it's deliberate or not when discussing the risk to someones life while at work????


  • #216
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Why does it matter whether it's deliberate or not when discussing the risk to someones life while at work????

    Surely to God even you can recognise the fact that if someone is deliberately out to harm you because of what you work at then your occupation is dangerous and you are open to more risk than someone who is not a target.

    You already have the same risks as everyone else walking the streets but if you have to deal with the aggressors then you are more at risk.

    Every walk of life can be dangerous but you are not a target or expected to deal with dangerous people on a daily basis.

    I would say a trawlerman/fisherman is more at risk than a farmer too because he is a potential victim of nature/ weather conditions while at sea but even he is not a deliberate target of some crazed druggie or violent criminal.


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  • #217
    Martypants1
    Site Banned Posts: 806 ✭✭✭Martypants1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Surely to God even you can recognise the fact that if someone is deliberately out to harm you because of what you work at then your occupation is dangerous and you are open to more risk than someone who is not a target.

    You already have the same risks as everyone else walking the streets but if you have to deal with the aggressors then you are more at risk.

    Every walk of life can be dangerous but you are not a target or expected to deal with dangerous people on a daily basis.

    I would say a trawlerman/fisherman is more at risk than a farmer too because he is a potential victim of nature/ weather conditions while at sea but even he is not a deliberate target of some crazed druggie or violent criminal.

    Sorry but do you understand risk at all?

    If something has the same risk then it doesn't matter who is doing what.

    It's like the "which is heavier, a tonne of feathers or a tonne of coal".


  • #218
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Surely to God even you can recognise the fact that if someone is deliberately out to harm you because of what you work at then your occupation is dangerous and you are open to more risk than someone who is not a target.

    You already have the same risks as everyone else walking the streets but if you have to deal with the aggressors then you are more at risk.

    Every walk of life can be dangerous but you are not a target or expected to deal with dangerous people on a daily basis.

    I would say a trawlerman/fisherman is more at risk than a farmer too because he is a potential victim of nature/ weather conditions while at sea but even he is not a deliberate target of some crazed druggie or violent criminal.

    Agin, you've got some weird confusion between the source of danger and the level of danger. If you're killed accidentally, are you any less dead than if you were killed deliberately?

    What is the most dangerous profession in Ireland? Farming. Followed by construction. Even adjusted for participation levels, still much more dangerous than police work.

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/surprisingly-dangerous-jobs-your-county-5492777

    Of course, according to TheHillOfDoom, they were asking for it, and should just have been a little more careful.


  • #219
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Agin, you've got some weird confusion between the source of danger and the level of danger. If you're killed accidentally, are you any less dead than if you were killed deliberately?

    What is the most dangerous profession in Ireland? Farming. Followed by construction. Even adjusted for participation levels, still much more dangerous than police work.

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/surprisingly-dangerous-jobs-your-county-5492777

    Of course, according to TheHillOfDoom, they were asking for it, and should just have been a little more careful.

    You can mitigate risks in farming. Not so much as a guard.


  • #220
    Martypants1
    Site Banned Posts: 806 ✭✭✭Martypants1


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    You can mitigate risks in farming. Not so much as a guard.

    Yes you can. Whether it's logical or not is another thing, but that's the same for farming.


  • #221
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Sorry but do you understand risk at all?

    If something has the same risk then it doesn't matter who is doing what.

    It's like the "which is heavier, a tonne of feathers or a tonne of coal".

    There are degrees of risk, i hope you understand.
    Garda at more risk than farmer is a no-brainer.
    Nothing to do with weight either.


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  • #222
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Yes you can. Whether it's logical or not is another thing, but that's the same for farming.

    Don't be ridiculous.

    Fence around the slurry tank.
    Wear a mask when agitating.
    Do not walk into a field with a bull.
    Do not allow small children on a farm.
    Be careful of loose clothing around machinery.

    The equivalent for a guard?

    Make sure you can run fast when you go in to challenge a raging bull.


  • #223
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Agin, you've got some weird confusion between the source of danger and the level of danger. If you're killed accidentally, are you any less dead than if you were killed deliberately?

    What is the most dangerous profession in Ireland? Farming. Followed by construction. Even adjusted for participation levels, still much more dangerous than police work.

    http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/surprisingly-dangerous-jobs-your-county-5492777

    Of course, according to TheHillOfDoom, they were asking for it, and should just have been a little more careful.

    Nothing weird at all about someone threatening you with danger because of the job you do and the occasions of danger.
    Accident versus wilful causation. The latter is more dangerous.


  • #224
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Yes you can. Whether it's logical or not is another thing, but that's the same for farming.

    No you can't and you know that.


  • #225
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    tayto lover wrote: »
    There are degrees of risk, i hope you understand.
    tayto lover wrote: »
    Accident versus wilful causation. The latter is more dangerous.

    Can you not see that you are directly contradicting yourself?

    If the risk of death by an accident is equal to the risk of death by wilful cause, then the two situations are equally dangerous.

    And statistics prove that the risk of death from farming is greater than the risk of death being a member of AGS.


  • #226
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Can you not see that you are directly contradicting yourself?

    If the risk of death by an accident is equal to the risk of death by wilful cause, then the two situations are equally dangerous.

    And statistics prove that the risk of death from farming is greater than the risk of death being a member of AGS.

    Statistics will tell you anything you want. Lies, damn lies and statistics.
    How many farmers were shot by robbers or criminals in the last 3 years?


  • #227
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    tayto lover wrote: »
    No you can't and you know that.

    Of course the risk could be mitigated Are you really saying that 100% of the incidents where a member of AGS was killed or injured could not have been prevented? That would mean that the injury or death is an eventual certainty, not a possibility, and any attempt to avoid it is futile?

    They may not have been as easily prevented as some farming or industrial accidents, but of course some of them could have been prevented.

    Greater numbers of Gardaí on the beat, better equipment, better training, intervention schemes to lessen violent crime - all if these mitigate the risk of death & injury to Gardaí.


  • #228
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Can you not see that you are directly contradicting yourself?

    If the risk of death by an accident is equal to the risk of death by wilful cause, then the two situations are equally dangerous.

    And statistics prove that the risk of death from farming is greater than the risk of death being a member of AGS.

    Can you not see that the risks can be minimised, mitigated and eliminated in farming? Not so in the gardai! The nature of the work means it's inherently risky.


  • #229
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    Can you not see that the risks can be minimised, mitigated and eliminated in farming? Not so in the gardai! The nature of the work means it's inherently risky.

    In both cases risks can be mitigated. That's what risk means.

    Are you honestly telling me that there is nothing that can be done to lessen the risk to Gardaí? Because if so, why are we wasting money on stab vests, riot gear etc? Surely those are efforts to mitigate risk to the health and wellbeing of Gardaí in risky situations?


  • #230
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Of course the risk could be mitigated Are you really saying that 100% of the incidents where a member of AGS was killed or injured could not have been prevented? That would mean that the injury or death is an eventual certainty, not a possibility, and any attempt to avoid it is futile?

    They may not have been as easily prevented as some farming or industrial accident, but of course some of them could have been prevented.

    Greater numbers of Gardaí on the beat, better equipment, better training, intervention schemes to lessen violent crime - all if these mitigate the risk of death & injury to Gardaí.

    A farmer should be able to tell where risks may come from before he starts his days work. If he has a bull ion a field he can take precautions.
    A garda couldn't possibly state what he's going to meet on any day. Criminals don't phone them up and tell them they're armed and ready to rob some place.


  • #231
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    maudgonner wrote: »
    Of course the risk could be mitigated Are you really saying that 100% of the incidents where a member of AGS was killed or injured could not have been prevented? That would mean that the injury or death is an eventual certainty, not a possibility, and any attempt to avoid it is futile?

    They may not have been as easily prevented as some farming or industrial accidents, but of course some of them could have been prevented.

    Greater numbers of Gardaí on the beat, better equipment, better training, intervention schemes to lessen violent crime - all if these mitigate the risk of death & injury to Gardaí.

    They may reduce risks but the risks are still there nonetheless because of the nature of their job..
    It would work for farmers though.


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  • #232
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    It's like talking to a wall.


  • #233
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    It's like talking to a wall.

    Ah no. There's farmers being assaulted every day.:pac:


  • #234
    Martypants1
    Site Banned Posts: 806 ✭✭✭Martypants1


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    Don't be ridiculous.

    Fence around the slurry tank.
    Wear a mask when agitating.
    Do not walk into a field with a bull.
    Do not allow small children on a farm.
    Be careful of loose clothing around machinery.

    The equivalent for a guard?

    Make sure you can run fast when you go in to challenge a raging bull.
    tayto lover wrote: »
    No you can't and you know that.
    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    Can you not see that the risks can be minimised, mitigated and eliminated in farming? Not so in the gardai! The nature of the work means it's inherently risky.

    Yes, signing that drivers licence photo or checking tax on that car, real dangerous stuff.

    You'd swear cops in this country were partaking in shootouts all over the country every day.


  • #235
    Martypants1
    Site Banned Posts: 806 ✭✭✭Martypants1


    It's like talking to a wall here. People don't understand the definition of risk. They seem to think the same levels of risk change depending on the hazard.


  • #236
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Martypants1 wrote: »
    Yes, signing that drivers licence photo or checking tax on that car, real dangerous stuff.

    You'd swear cops in this country were partaking in shootouts all over the country every day.

    So we've found your real agenda here. Bashing the garda. You're on the wrong thread.
    How many farmers were shot lately by criminals?


  • #237
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    tayto lover wrote: »
    A farmer should be able to tell where risks may come from before he starts his days work. If he has a bull ion a field he can take precautions.
    A garda couldn't possibly state what he's going to meet on any day. Criminals don't phone them up and tell them they're armed and ready to rob some place.

    What do you think Gardaí train for? To prepare for situations just such as that. They assess the situations they face, decide what is the most appropriate course of action and react accordingly. They act to mitigate the risk (I know how you love that phrase) to members of the public, themselves and fellow members of the force, every day.

    To suggest that they do nothing to minimise the risk to themselves or others is insulting to the Gardaí, frankly.


  • #238
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    maudgonner wrote: »
    What do you think Gardaí train for? To prepare for situations just such as that. They assess the situations they face, decide what is the most appropriate course of action and react accordingly. They act to mitigate the risk (I know how you love that phrase) to members of the public, themselves and fellow members of the force, every day.

    To suggest that they do nothing to minimise the risk to themselves or others is insulting to the Gardaí, frankly.

    No indeed it's not. To try to undermine the risk posed to them by the nature of their job is insulting to them.


  • #239
    TheHillOfDoom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 794 ✭✭✭TheHillOfDoom


    maudgonner wrote: »
    What do you think Gardaí train for? To prepare for situations just such as that. They assess the situations they face, decide what is the most appropriate course of action and react accordingly. They act to mitigate the risk (I know how you love that phrase) to members of the public, themselves and fellow members of the force, every day.

    To suggest that they do nothing to minimise the risk to themselves or others is insulting to the Gardaí, frankly.

    What I'm suggesting is the opposite in fact! What I'm suggesting is that farmer's do not appropriately measure and mitigate risks. It's not like they are out facing raging renegade homicidal suicidal armed bulls on a daily basis? Yet, why are more injuries/deaths happening on farms?


  • #240
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    What I'm suggesting is the opposite in fact! What I'm suggesting is that farmer's do not appropriately measure and mitigate risks. It's not like they are out facing raging renegade homicidal suicidal armed bulls on a daily basis? Yet, why are more injuries/deaths happening on farms?

    Carelessness and stingyness usually. A neighbour of ours was injured because he failed to repair the wheel on a tractor trailer. It collapsed and he was flung from it.


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  • #241
    maudgonner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭maudgonner


    tayto lover wrote: »
    No indeed it's not. To try to undermine the risk posed to them by the nature of their job is insulting to them.

    Which I have never once done. So please don't quote me in that context.


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