Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

TheHillOfDoom · 15-03-2016 01:26PM

Augeo wrote: »

Farming is more dangerous than being a member of AGS.

It's not more dangerous. Just because a lot of accidents happen on farms does not mean that it's a dangerous occupation.

tayto lover · 15-03-2016 01:27PM

Augeo wrote: »

Farming is more dangerous than being a member of AGS.

Do many farmers get beaten up, assaulted and shot at by lads in your area?
Hill walking is dangerous too but you don't get many lads coming out from behind rocks to assault them or throw them down cliffs.

Martypants1 · 15-03-2016 01:31PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Do many farmers get beaten up, assaulted and shot at by lads in your area?
Hill walking is dangerous too but you don't get many lads coming out from behind rocks to assault them or throw them down cliffs.

Do many guards get animals kicking them in the head, charging at them in open fields, fall into slurry pits, gassed agitating slurry, get bales falling on top of them, trailers coming off the hitch and flying in through the window, get exposed to disease on a regular basis?

tayto lover · 15-03-2016 01:33PM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Do many guards get animals kicking them in the head, charging at them in open fields, fall into slurry pits, gassed agitating slurry, get bales falling on top of them, trailers coming off the hitch and flying in through the window, get exposed to disease on a regular basis?

You do know the difference between a wilful act and an accident, don't you?

TheHillOfDoom · 15-03-2016 01:48PM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Do many guards get animals kicking them in the head, charging at them in open fields, fall into slurry pits, gassed agitating slurry, get bales falling on top of them, trailers coming off the hitch and flying in through the window, get exposed to disease on a regular basis?

Some people have an ounce of common sense.

maudgonner · 15-03-2016 01:56PM

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Some people have an ounce of common sense.

So you think that all farm accidents are due to gross negligence? That's pretty bloody insulting to those that have died and been seriously injured on farms.

Martypants1 · 15-03-2016 01:59PM

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Some people have an ounce of common sense.

Jesus Christ. Talk about disrespect. How about I disrespect a garda who did something stupid? See how you like it?

How about not going into a house when there's a threatening and abusive man in there who said he would murder, without backup or weapons????????

Martypants1 · 15-03-2016 02:00PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You do know the difference between a wilful act and an accident, don't you?

Didn't know guards were forced to be guards, thought they opted to join.

TheHillOfDoom · 15-03-2016 02:00PM

maudgonner wrote: »

So you think that all farm accidents are due to gross negligence? That's pretty bloody insulting to those that have died and been seriously injured on farms.

As with accidents in the construction industry, it's generally as a result of not calculating risk or using precautions.

maudgonner · 15-03-2016 02:06PM

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

As with accidents in the construction industry, it's generally as a result of not calculating risk or using precautions.

It is sometimes as a result of not taking precautions. It is sometimes as a result of taking risks. Risks are sometimes unavoidable.

Cattle, for example, are powerful animals. Farmers have no option but to handle them from time to time. This can be very dangerous and result in injuries. In an ideal world the farmer might invest in equipment to lessen the risk, or have more help to control the animals - but in the real world they may not have the money to afford that equipment or staff.

In an ideal world guards would have sufficient numbers and equipment to lessen the risks of apprehending criminals. In the real world that cannot be afforded. See a parallel?

TheHillOfDoom · 15-03-2016 02:10PM

maudgonner wrote: »

It is sometimes as a result of not taking precautions. It is sometimes as a result of taking risks. Risks are sometimes unavoidable.

Cattle, for example, are powerful animals. Farmers have no option but to handle them from time to time. This can be very dangerous and result in injuries. In an ideal world the farmer might invest in equipment to lessen the risk, or have more help to control the animals - but in the real world they may not have the money to afford that equipment or staff.

In an ideal world guards would have sufficient numbers and equipment to lessen the risks of apprehending criminals. In the real world that cannot be afforded. See a parallel?

Are you suggesting that farmers regularly go into a field and randomly handle cattle?

Martypants1 · 15-03-2016 02:12PM

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Are you suggesting that farmers regularly go into a field and randomly handle cattle?

Are you suggesting guards regularly get shot at?

BTW, you're clearly not familar with a thing called calving season.

maudgonner · 15-03-2016 02:13PM

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Are you suggesting that farmers regularly go into a field and randomly handle cattle?

I'm not sure if you're making a lewd suggestion - that would be more at home in a sheep analogy, surely?

Farmers do not regularly go into a field to handle cattle - they would have to catch them first, and cattle are sneaky feckers. They regularly handle cattle in pens or sheds. Dairy farmers handle their cows' udders twice a day.

TheHillOfDoom · 15-03-2016 02:14PM

If you're a guard, 90% of the time you're going to be dealing with either a criminal or a victim.

tayto lover · 15-03-2016 02:15PM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Didn't know guards were forced to be guards, thought they opted to join.

What a silly and biased statement. Have you a grudge against them? Seems like it.

15-03-2016 02:18PM

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

If you're a guard, 90% of the time you're going to be dealing with either a criminal or a victim.

So less than 10% is paper work, checking tax & insurance, court time & walking/driving the assigned area?

TheHillOfDoom · 15-03-2016 02:20PM

Augeo wrote: »

So less than 10% is paper work, checking tax & insurance, court time & walking/driving the assigned area?

I'm talking about the people they're dealing with.

maudgonner · 15-03-2016 02:20PM

tayto lover wrote: »

What a silly and biased statement. Have you a grudge against them? Seems like it.

No more silly and biased than your assertion that a job is only dangerous if it incurs 'wilful acts' rather than accidents?

FWIW, I believe that both farmers and Gardaí have relatively dangerous jobs.

Edward Hopper · 15-03-2016 02:21PM

Martypants1 wrote: »

Jesus Christ. Talk about disrespect. How about I disrespect a garda who did something stupid? See how you like it?

How about not going into a house when there's a threatening and abusive man in there who said he would murder, without backup or weapons????????

So you take a broad statement you disagree with (and im not saying whether that statement was right or wrong) and use the actual specific murder of another human being to score points? Bravo.

15-03-2016 02:21PM

tayto lover wrote: »

What a silly and biased statement. Have you a grudge against them? Seems like it.

Perhaps he thinks their remuneration is appropriate at current levels. That wouldn't mean he has a grudge against them.

tayto lover · 15-03-2016 02:22PM

maudgonner wrote: »

So you think that all farm accidents are due to gross negligence? That's pretty bloody insulting to those that have died and been seriously injured on farms.

Funny you didn't comment on the other matter of the garda who were injured and killed.

I have great respect for farmers and have relatives who are farmers. Some of the accidents could have been prevented obviously and some were tragic. BUT the point of the matter was that none of them were caused deliberately by criminals, drug-crazed or drunk individuals.

tayto lover · 15-03-2016 02:24PM

maudgonner wrote: »

No more silly and biased than your assertion that a job is only dangerous if it incurs 'wilful acts' rather than accidents?

FWIW, I believe that both farmers and Gardaí have relatively dangerous jobs.

So have many others but they are not targeted deliberately hence the word accident. Driving for a living can be dangerous because you're on the motorway all the time but nobody targets you because you're a driver.

Martypants1 · 15-03-2016 02:24PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Funny you didn't comment on the other matter of the garda who were injured and killed.

I have great respect for farmers and have relatives who are farmers. Some of the accidents could have been prevented obviously and some were tragic. BUT the point of the matter was that none of them were caused deliberately by criminals, drug-crazed or drunk individuals.

What does that have anything to do with it when talking about risking your life at work?

tayto lover · 15-03-2016 02:25PM

Augeo wrote: »

Perhaps he thinks their remuneration is appropriate at current levels. That wouldn't mean he has a grudge against them.

It wouldn't mean he hasn't either.

tayto lover · 15-03-2016 02:26PM

Martypants1 wrote: »

What does that have anything to do with it when talking about risking your life at work?

Everything.

Zillah · 15-03-2016 02:31PM

It's a lot more complicated than what sort of income we think someone 'deserves'. If it's proportionate to how much they suffer, I think someone packing bags in a supermarket should be making more than a CEO. If it's about hours done, then private consultants should be on the bread line.

If you need more of a type of worker, then you raise the salary to lure more people in to it. If you've a set of specialised skills that are relatively rare, you can essentially blackmail society to pay you more - not because you work that hard but because you've got the advantage.

Then again there are questions about qualifications. Regardless of how hard or unpleasant your job is, should you get paid more because your skillset was very hard or expensive to acquire, even if your day-to-day work is easy?

It's messy, and it makes conversations like these very tricky. You'd have to pay me an outrageous fortune for me to consider working as a barman, because I think the environment would melt my brain and be such an ordeal.

maudgonner · 15-03-2016 02:42PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Funny you didn't comment on the other matter of the garda who were injured and killed.

I have great respect for farmers and have relatives who are farmers. Some of the accidents could have been prevented obviously and some were tragic. BUT the point of the matter was that none of them were caused deliberately by criminals, drug-crazed or drunk individuals.

There's nothing 'funny' about it. No I didn't comment on it. I've stated elsewhere that I have numerous relatives who are Gardaí, a number of them have been injured on duty. I don't take lightly the risks that the Gardaí face every day.

But unlike you, I am also able to recognise that there are other professions that are dangerous. And that danger does not just come from people who are deliberately trying to hurt you. Do you also think working on an oil-rig is not a dangerous job? How about being an F1 driver? How about being an EOD tech in the army - sure they deal with some bombs that are deliberately planted, but they also deal with marine flares that are washed up on beaches. Is their job only dangerous when they dispose of pipe-bombs, but not when they deal with quarry explosives that have been stored incorrectly?

Your assertion that danger only comes from wilful acts is ridiculous.

tayto lover · 15-03-2016 02:44PM

maudgonner wrote: »

There's nothing 'funny' about it. No I didn't comment on it. I've stated elsewhere that I have numerous relatives who are Gardaí, a number of them have been injured on duty. I don't take lightly the risks that the Gardaí face every day.

But unlike you, I am also able to recognise that there are other professions that are dangerous. And that danger does not just come from people who are deliberately trying to hurt you. Do you also think working on an oil-rig is not a dangerous job? How about being an F1 driver? How about being an EOD tech in the army - sure they deal with some bombs that are deliberately planted, but they also deal with marine flares that are washed up on beaches. Is their job only dangerous when they dispose of pipe-bombs, but not when they deal with quarry explosives that have been stored incorrectly?

Your assertion that danger only comes from wilful acts is ridiculous.

Please read the posts. I've listed other professions that are dangerous.
None of them have maniacs deliberately targeting them though.
Your own assertions are the real ridiculous ones.

TheHillOfDoom · 15-03-2016 02:45PM

maudgonner wrote: »

There's nothing 'funny' about it. No I didn't comment on it. I've stated elsewhere that I have numerous relatives who are Gardaí, a number of them have been injured on duty. I don't take lightly the risks that the Gardaí face every day.

But unlike you, I am also able to recognise that there are other professions that are dangerous. And that danger does not just come from people who are deliberately trying to hurt you. Do you also think working on an oil-rig is not a dangerous job? How about being an F1 driver? How about being an EOD tech in the army - sure they deal with some bombs that are deliberately planted, but they also deal with marine flares that are washed up on beaches. Is their job only dangerous when they dispose of pipe-bombs, but not when they deal with quarry explosives that have been stored incorrectly?

Your assertion that danger only comes from wilful acts is ridiculous.

Put it this way.

You've to walk a tightrope between two buildings.
Now, You've to walk a tightrope between two buildings while trying to catch someone on the other side and avoid being shot at.

maudgonner · 15-03-2016 02:48PM

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Put it this way.

You've to walk a tightrope between two buildings.
Now, You've to walk a tightrope between two buildings while trying to catch someone on the other side and avoid being shot at.

Great. This proves my point - walking the tightrope is dangerous, in both cases.

Two different situations can both be dangerous. Saying that one is not dangerous just because nobody is deliberately trying to hurt you, is ridiculous.

Garda, nurses, teachers and doctor's pay

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