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Nelson's Pillar

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Comments

  • #632
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    Nelson's Pillar may have become a hazardous danger over time anyway :o


  • #633
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    I beg to differ. Even the retired cop intimated that there were celebrations. I know that my own family and everyone I've ever spoken to speaks very fondly of Nelson's pillar being blown up. It's always viewed with great glee.

    Had a chat with my Dad about this today & he remembered there being all manner of reaction from his peers in the immediate wake of its destruction, including genuine anger, apathy, considerable bemusement and some celebration.


  • #634
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    In fairness, they didn't have the option of wearing Irish uniforms.

    Correct, it was the only official government army uniform of these islands at the time.


  • #635
    donegaLroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    Had a chat with my Dad about this today & he remembered there being all manner of reaction from his peers in the immediate wake of its destruction, including genuine anger, apathy, considerable bemusement and some celebration.

    There would have been widely varied reactions across different parts of Dublin at that time, I would imagine.


  • #636
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    maryishere wrote: »
    Correct, it was the only official government army uniform of these islands at the time.

    You say it as if that made it right. You not going to tell us anymore about how a new statue of Nelson would solve the homeless crises Arlene?


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  • #637
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    maryishere wrote: »
    Up to a quarter, if you study your history.

    Like the 206,000 Irish people who volunteered to wear British uniforms in WW1, they probably done it for a variety of reasons.

    Still struggling to make a distinction between unionists and the rest?


  • #638
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    It wasn't the IRA it was MI6 Wyman agents Keith & Kennth Littlejohn who blew it up.


  • #639
    The flying mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    It wasn't the IRA it was MI6 Wyman agents Keith & Kennth Littlejohn who blew it up.



    You are right it was not the IRA who blew it up, don't think t was the littlejohns either,,,

    Littlejohn had been dishonourably discharged from the Parachute Regiment. He served three years for robbery before being released from prison in 1968 from which time he worked as a car dealer.

    https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiJ8IX-2bLLAhXqZpoKHQM8BYIQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FKenneth_Littlejohn&usg=AFQjCNF_RRS5ZmFR2-NVLMdrbcpaw5a9zg&sig2=bEBTpNoFe8f-9JLHmtHjtg


  • #640
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,099 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    TheHillOfDoom wrote: »
    I beg to differ. Even the retired cop intimated that there were celebrations. I know that my own family and everyone I've ever spoken to speaks very fondly of Nelson's pillar being blown up. It's always viewed with great glee.

    Glee? A bunch of eejits plant a bomb in Dublin city centre and detonate it causing damage not just to the pillar but to our main thoroughfare and people were celebrating....the mind boggles. It's a wonder these Irish patriots didn't go after a few other "West Brit" targets for good measure that year and detonate a bomb in Trinity College and blow up the Wellington Monument.


  • #641
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    donegaLroad wrote: »
    Ireland was not a tyranny... correct me if I'm wrong.

    It's all relative I guess.

    http://what-when-how.com/medieval-ireland/slaves-medieval-ireland/

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_laundries_in_Ireland


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  • #642
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    130Kph wrote: »
    It appears you’re downplaying how close the taxi driver came to being killed (60 feet of rubble projectiles or rubble falling in seconds).

    So like the reckless, brain-dead bomber your first instinct is to smear & throw doubt on the ex-taxi driver’s account.

    Is that just world weary cynicism or some kind of agenda? I think I can guess which.




    If Maugham was killed, no prizes for guessing that Sutcliffe today would be rolling out the usual (completely insincere) hoary old weasel words and phrases about ‘regret’.

    A proud Son of Eirinn is Sutcliffe. Puke.

    I'm not downplaying it, I'm saying the taxi driver is probably full of **** :D

    I've heard dozens on dozens of stories about that bombing, you'd swear half of dublin was there when it went off and the other half was there when the rest of it was demolished.

    And most of the stories were proven to be waffle. So yeah I'm not buying the testimony of a taxi driver who's probably been telling that story for the last half century. I wouldn't believe the lad who planted it either tbh.

    btw the lads who write the Come Here To Me blog did a book on this recently


  • #643
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    maryishere wrote: »
    It was the destruction of historical monuments which led journalists on national media to compare the bombing of the Pillar with Isil activities, in their search for some comparable in the past 50 years.

    Deliberate destruction and theft of cultural heritage has been conducted by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, also known as ISIS - Islamic State of Iraq and Syria or IS - Islamic State) since 2014 in Iraq, Syria, and to a lesser extent in Libya.
    ISIL uses a unit called the Kata'ib Taswiyya (settlement battalions), tasked with selecting targets for demolition. UNESCO Director-General Irina Bokova branded the ISIL activities in this respect as "a form of cultural cleansing" and launched the Unite4Heritage campaign to protect heritage sites threatened by extremists.

    The only person comparing taking down a statue (even blowing one up) with ISIS is you. And there's a huge difference between removing some huge kitsch statue of saddam Hussein or nelson or Stalin and ISIS. If removing or damaging statues was "like ISIS"! then much of the world is like ISIS. (Historically British Protestantism was in fact very like Isis ).

    This is typical of your insane arguments. At this stage I think you are trolling in the old sense of the word. Not believing a word but continuous needling.


  • #644
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    maryishere wrote: »
    In the past 50 or 100 years?

    We do not need the British to destroy an Irish designed, Irish financed and Irish built pillar / viewing platform and replace it with an ugly, expensive English designed "needle in the sky". We done it ourselves.

    Nobody liked that statue (except fetishers of empire who missed the time when the British ruled the world on the basis of Anglo Saxon racial surpremacy). It couldn't be removed by Dublin corporation though for some reason.

    I wouldn't get too fond of imperialistic statues even in Britain were I you, that's not the way the wind is blowing. You should go on a grand tour of imperial Britain statuary before it's too late. Take photographs of kitsch statues of slave traders, pirates, opium drug pushers and mass murderers all the while blubbing about how awful the removal of statues is, it's like ISIS. Bring lots of handkerchiefs to soak up the tears.


  • #645
    DonalK1981
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭DonalK1981


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    They could have kept the pillar and replaced Nelson with a better person like Charles Haughey for example where we have yet to have a fitting memorial or Bertie Ahern when he dies.

    Why not be done with it and place Bertie on the Spire now?


  • #646
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    The only person comparing taking down a statue (even blowing one up) with ISIS is you. And there's a huge difference between removing some huge kitsch statue of saddam Hussein or nelson or Stalin and ISIS. If removing or damaging statues was "like ISIS"! then much of the world is like ISIS. (Historically British Protestantism was in fact very like Isis ).

    This is typical of your insane arguments. At this stage I think you are trolling in the old sense of the word. Not believing a word but continuous needling.

    Seems to have touched a nerve, have we? There is a very obvious trend by extremist fanatical elements to use force and violence to cleanse cultural and physical elements from the landscape in order to usher in a new era of said new ideology. This is nothing new.

    The Soviets blew up the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in 1931, one of most important cathedrals of the Russian orthodox religion, to be replaced by a more appropriate building for Stalinism and Communism called 'The palace of the Soviets'.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Christ_the_Saviour#Demolition
    This was one of many examples of Soviet Russia

    The Nazi's systematically tried to dismantle all traces of Judaism and 'Jewry' from Europe. People burned as well as buildings.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_the_Riga_synagogues

    The Chinese under Mao destroyed 6,000 monasteries and killed 1 million Tibetans under the ironic title of 'The great leap forward' and 'The cultural revolution'.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#From_1950_to_present

    The Taliban in 2001 blew up the Buddhas of Bamiyan as they considered them false satanic idols.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan

    ISIS have been blowing up all kinds of ancient ruins over the past few years as they see them as non Islamic.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_ISIL#Palmyra

    The IRA blowing up Nelsons pilar along with other examples like Lord Gough's monument is similar to the examples used above and shows the kind of mindset behind the ideology, that Ireland had to be cleansed of all Anglo influences like it were some disease. Utterly jingoistic, utterly extreme, utter nationalist thinking.

    It is noticeable that not many actually try and defend the blowing up of the statue or pilar outright as they would be accused rightly of a similar mindset of the examples I have linked above. Instead they go on about Empire, da Brits, da prods, and so on as a side ways method to try and argue indirectly that blowing up statues was in the grand scheme of things was a very good thing.

    These are the same people who will go on endlessly about international treaties, laws, legal rights and human rights, once of course it suits their own agenda and ideology. However, that goes out the windows when something extra judicial happens they agree with. Just think Sinn Fein castigating, rightly the Roman Catholic Church for moving abuse victims around parishes. Yet, we only found out the past few months that Sinn Fein were doing the same thing with sex abusers. Law and order for some, extra judicial action and knee capping for others. This is the mindset of these people.


  • #647
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Ah matey you left out the occupants of the former sov block toppling statues of Lenin and Stalin and the iraqis toppling statues of saddam. Even though they're the most obvious comparisons given that they're statues and not buildings or churches.

    It's almost like the obvious comparison didn't suit your agenda so you had to stretch out to buildings and religious sites being demolished even though they're not comparable.


  • #648
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Seems to have touched a nerve, have we? There is a very obvious (....................)is the mindset of these people.

    No, I'd say he was more annoyed at the sheer silliness of the comparison.


  • #649
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Bambi wrote: »
    Ah matey you left out the occupants of the former sov block toppling statues of Lenin and Stalin and the iraqis toppling statues of saddam. Even though they're the most obvious comparisons given that they're statues and not buildings or churches.

    It's almost like the obvious comparison didn't suit your agenda so you had to stretch out to buildings and religious sites being demolished even though they're not comparable.

    Yes, we all know that Nelson, Wellington and Gough among others was just as bad as Stalin et al.

    See everyone, note the indirect way of framing the argument.


  • #650
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Yes, we all know that Nelson, Wellington and Gough among others was just as bad as Stalin et al.

    See everyone, note the indirect way of framing the argument.

    Who said they were as bad as Stalin? Anyway, Stalin won the second world war, why are you dissing him? Brave mens sacrifices airbrushed out of history etc etc. See how easy it is to play the poppy game? Fun too

    They were statues of overthrown regimes my man. The comparison is obvious and appropriate, as opposed to your effort :)


  • #651
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Ha what a load of balls to be honest.

    You banging on about ancient historical and religious heritage sites is an invalid comparison.

    People removing a gaudy statue glorifying imperialism is not comparable with blowing up Palmyra for instance. What it is comparable with is the likes of the Iraqis pulling down statues of Hussein.

    Do you think the Iraqis should have maturely recognised these statues as part of their rich and shared history?

    You're spinning so much you're about to elevate.


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  • #652
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Yes, we all know that Nelson, Wellington and Gough among others was just as bad as Stalin et al.

    See everyone, note the indirect way of framing the argument.

    Are you talking to a tv audience?

    Is this live?

    *wave


  • #653
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    FTA69 wrote: »

    People removing a gaudy statue glorifying imperialism is not comparable with blowing up Palmyra for instance. What it is comparable with is the likes of the Iraqis pulling down statues of Hussein.

    Your point would be true if the statue was replaced due to public demand in 1923 but alas this did not happen. Instead we got some nut job tied with IRA of a similar mindset of ISIS who wanted to blow up the pilar in 1966, 50 years, yes FIFTY years after the rising. So spare me the Hussein comparison.

    We should call it out for what it is. Extremist nationalism and fanaticism who went off on a solo run against the democratic wishes of the people. If there was a mandate to remove the statue and a proper debate then that is another story, the statue could have been replaced with some holy Irish patriot of the peoples choosing. However, there was no mandate to blow the thing up and cause damage to public property. I presume you agree with the democratic principles of the republic no? Or do you favour vigilantism or mob rule by the few over the many?


  • #654
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    The Nazi's systematically tried to dismantle all traces of Judaism and 'Jewry' from Europe. People burned as well as buildings.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_the_Riga_synagogues

    The Chinese under Mao destroyed 6,000 monasteries and killed 1 million Tibetans under the ironic title of 'The great leap forward' and 'The cultural revolution'.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#From_1950_to_present

    The IRA blowing up Nelsons pilar along with other examples like Lord Gough's monument is similar to the examples used above

    Right....

    Last time I checked 2+2=4 and not 5,123,342,765 or whatever.....


  • #655
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    ..............
    We should call it out for what it is. Extremist nationalism and fanaticism who went off on a solo run against the democratic wishes of the people. If there was a mandate to remove the statue and a proper debate then that is another story, the statue could have been replaced with some holy Irish patriot of the peoples choosing. However, there was no mandate to blow the thing up and cause damage to public property. I presume you agree with the democratic principles of the republic no? Or do you favour vigilantism or mob rule by the few over the many?

    ....where was there a wish expressed to keep it?


  • #656
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....where was there a wish expressed to keep it?

    ...Where was there a wish expressed to blow it up in 1966?


  • #657
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    ...Where was there a wish expressed to blow it up in 1966?

    In O'Connell st about 01.32 am on the eighth of march.


  • #658
    FA Hayek
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭FA Hayek


    Nodin wrote: »
    In O'Connell st about 01.32 am on the eighth of march.

    We are to take this lone nut and extremist nationalist group as having some sort of mandate now? Republican mob rule and vigilantism that circumvents any democratic process or debate is fine by you. Got it.
    The centre of Omagh was blown up by the desire and wishes of the IRA in 1998 killing 31 people, I presume you have no issue with this either.


  • #659
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    We are to take this lone nut and extremist nationalist group as having some sort of mandate now? Republican mob rule and vigilantism that circumvents any democratic process or debate is fine by you. Got it.
    The centre of Omagh was blown up by the desire and wishes of the IRA in 1998 killing 31 people, I presume you have no issue with this either.

    So you condemn 1916 leaders as well then since there was no mandate from the people for them to act on their behalf?


  • #660
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    diomed wrote: »
    He was a great lad. Jackeens worship him.
    Why should terrorists from a foreign country (Northern Ireland) have a right to blow up our monuments?

    It was blown up by Dubiners!

    Look up Joe Christle from Rathmines!


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  • #661
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,099 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Ha what a load of balls to be honest.

    You banging on about ancient historical and religious heritage sites is an invalid comparison.

    People removing a gaudy statue glorifying imperialism is not comparable with blowing up Palmyra for instance. What it is comparable with is the likes of the Iraqis pulling down statues of Hussein.

    Do you think the Iraqis should have maturely recognised these statues as part of their rich and shared history?

    You're spinning so much you're about to elevate.

    What happens if I and a few of my mates take a dislike to the front facade of the GPO and decide to "remove" it this evening by detonating a car bomb outside at 4am. You would be quite okay with that I guess?


This discussion has been closed.
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