Being at a Deathbed ?

Lux23 · 07-03-2016 11:09AM

fryup wrote: »

Its something i'll be experiencing soon...so whats it like seeing a loved one as they near the end??

distressing? heartbreaking? comforting?

I would imagine it is a mixture of all three. I missed my Dad's last moments because I was waiting for someone to pick up my autistic brother. So when we got there he was already dead, which was probably more traumatic than if we were there. My Mum and his sisters were there though.

It is more surreal than anything, you can't really fathom what has just happened so you get through it. I did cry and howl a lot in the beginning but I think that was all part of the process.

Its the months afterwards that are the hardest, seeing or hearing something, then saying "oh I must tell them!" But you can't. The anger can be horrible too, I never felt anything like it before.

duchalla · 07-03-2016 11:23AM

My Dad died just after xmas last year. Twas very peaceful, no drama, just stopped breathing. He was diagnosed with terminal cancer 2 month before. He went downhill fairly rapid after that, but no way did we expect him to die that night. The previous night we had a few bottles of beer in the bedroom with him to celebrate new years eve. All his grand kids were there, singing songs and telling granda they loved him. It was heartbreaking but lovely at the same time. He always wanted to die in his own bed and thank God, we were able to grant his final wish, mainly down to my younger sister, who's a nurse and was his favourite out of the 3 of us, (he never come out and admit that but we all knew it!). It was fitting that when he did go, he literally died in her arms. I spose if theres a nice way to go, he had it, peacefully in his own bed, sourounded by his wife and children. Miss you Dad.

razorblunt · 07-03-2016 11:32AM

Thankfully, I wasn't there at my mam's, I don't think at that time I'd have been able to handle it. I did everything to avoid going there, as if, by staying away it wasn't real and wasn't really happening. I made up tons of excuses, have homework to do, need to go to work etc. When I did go, I just really enjoyed sitting with her and chatting with her. It's one of my biggest regrets, if I had my time back I'd have bunked school and work and just spend every moment I had there with her. She passed during the night, with my Dad there.

My Nan passed away 4 years later, with all her kids and grandkids by her side. She went really quickly, about 10 days from being fine, to having some sort of stroke and slipping away. 4 days before myself and some cousins were keeping her up to speed on the results of some world cup games, she loved her sport. Her breathing became more laboured as the time came (they staff, brilliant as always, had her very comfortable), there was a sudden pause of quiet, a sharp intake of breath, then she opened her eyes, her face went back to normal (had sloped on one side), closed her eyes and that was it. I'm not religious, but as someone said earlier, I found that quite spiritual.

opiniated · 07-03-2016 12:18PM

david75 wrote: »

Oh I know that. I'm just always baffled about how it's an accepted form of euthanasia at the last and as you said it happens all the time and yet if you have a foetus threatening your life for whatever reason the sensible option of saving the mothers life isn't taken or even legal.

I don't want to make this thread about that. Some lovely but sad stories here let's focus on how people manage
And what their experiences are.
As another poster said, thank god for the drugs in these situations. If a loved one gets to slip out from under the pain in any way I support it.

That's because it is not euthanasia.
Pain relief is accepted, even in the knowledge that it shortens life.
The difference is that it is intended as pain relief, not the deliberate ending of life.

timthumbni wrote: »

I think the fact you were there or thereabouts absolves you ( and I'm not religious) I lost a parent when I was a young cub face to face and it changed me greatly. Some things for the good, some for the bad.

In your case I'm sure your da may even have had a wee snigger to himself that you were in the bogs. You certainly can't beat yourself up about it.

I have said to my partner that if and when I go I want no tears, no fake tears, no uncomfortable wakes or funerals. I want a private wake and a private funeral. And anyone who says I'm sorry for your loss will get ejected.....

When I was younger, I had it all figured out about how I wanted my wake/funeral/burial place.

Then I lost my parents, had the whole traditional wake and funeral - and came to the realisation that the dead person no longer cares what happens at the wake/funeral - it's the coping mechanism for the bereaved that really matters!

NIMAN wrote: »

Does anyone know for sure if the morphine driver that you hear about, does it actually shorten life?

You often hear that once thats mentioned, you are at the end. But I would think that if you are so far gone that you need that, you are at the point of no return anyway.

Is it different from getting morphine over the space of a few days?

Yes. It does shorten life - but agonising pain shortens life, too!

Think of it as death being inevitable at that point, anyway, and the choice being between a pain-free passing, or a pain-filled one.

esforum wrote: »

Grandmother and leukemia, wasnt a nice experience. She was in pain, doped up, didnt recognise anyone in the room and kept calling out for my dead grandfather. Not a nice way to remember someone and unfortunately its now the last memory I have of her. My cousin who lived in the UK at the time didnt come home either then or for the funeral a few days later. Next time I see her I must ask does she regret her decision.

People on their deathbed calling for/speaking to those who have already passed is very common.

My father mentioned that his family and friends were "calling him over to the other side". My Grandmother claimed her sister was at the foot of the bed, waiting for her, as she passed.

Personally, I found it comforting to think that there were people there to ease their passing. Maybe that's just me.

For those who are not religious, would you prefer your loved ones believed they were accompanied by those they loved (even if you didn't believe it), or not?

razorblunt · 07-03-2016 12:38PM

opiniated wrote: »

For those who are not religious, would you prefer your loved ones believed they were accompanied by those they loved (even if you didn't believe it), or not?

Honestly it wouldn't bother me if they thought their childhood dog was there waiting for them. If it makes them happy and gives them some bit of comfort or relief then that's the most important thing.

david75 · 07-03-2016 11:15PM

The nurses and ward staff in the hospices and hospitals all over Ireland dont get anything like enough credit..in fact all they seem to get is dogs abuse..I have a good few friends who are nurses and they always say the patients are rarely any trouble, it's the families that cause the problems. But they really don't get the thanks or gratitude they deserve for what is an immensely difficult and underpaid job.

thanks to them if any of them are reading.

FalconGirl · 07-03-2016 11:32PM

Its tough. I was at the death bed of a close relative still young enough who really did not want to go and was crying about not seeing the kids grow up fully aware of what was happening. That was harrowing to see. We all had to make last speeches to him wife,kids, nieces, nephews, brothers, sisters and his own mother.

Life can be so cruel.:(

Spanish Eyes · 07-03-2016 11:34PM

The moment of death is an unreal experience. Sad, scary, out of our own comfort zone for sure, but you are privileged to have been there. And you will be glad you were there if you get me.

It is after they are gone that is the worst, yes I mean that, it is awful afterwards. For a long time.

Prepare yourself for that more than the death of a loved one. I am talking from experience here.

I hope you will get through it alright.

Conor Bourke · 07-03-2016 11:36PM

Kimora Loud Murk wrote: »

Also depends where it is.
Was at a death in a hospital where a high dose of morphine was given to ease pain/ speed things up... Wasn't nice.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do they still do that?

Kimora Loud Murk wrote: »

I think it really depends on the circumstances.

david75 wrote: »

It's the MO for people dying seriously painful deaths like cancers etc.

Weirdly hush hush and ironic given how backward we are on the whole issue at the other end, meaning birth and all the complications around it. It's not assisted death officially but it sort of is.

Morphine is not given to speed things up. It is not now, nor has it ever been the standard practice.

cassid · 07-03-2016 11:39PM

For me, one was annoyance & saddness, one day my mother in law was sitting in the bed laughing with all her family around her, the next day, her heart gave up. She refused any advice the doctors gave her and thought they were all mad. One simple procedure could have saved her, her loss has been big especially to her husband.

An aunt who was my mother in every sense of the word, her passing was very peaceful in a hospice. They were just wonderful, all my children used to plonk on her bed, her dog was allowed up. She could eat and drink booze if she wanted. First time, I was in a hospice, 8 weeks of going there showed me what a wonderful place it was. We had a long time to mentally prepare but still heartbreaking when their last breathe comes, knowing you will never hold them again or ask their opinion, or just a natter and laugh on the phone.

Conor Bourke · 07-03-2016 11:40PM

Yamanoto wrote: »

I don't think it's hush hush at all tbf.

Administration of heavy doses of morphine to ease someone along in their end game features as part of palliative care in almost every hospital in the State, on a daily basis.

Not everyone who dies under the care of a palliative team is on morphine and I can categorically state that it is NOT used with the intent of hastening someone's death.

Spanish Eyes · 07-03-2016 11:42PM

I have seen three close family members die from cancer.

All I can say WRT morphine is, when the pump goes on it is near the end.

That is not a bad thing either. Very peaceful and no pain.

Sorry am in floods here now. Just shows you, the actual time of death is not everything, it is what comes after that and the grief. Shock is what happens at time of death.

Sorry if I upset anyone, the thread just brought me right back.

LynnGrace · 07-03-2016 11:47PM

opiniated wrote: »

People on their deathbed calling for/speaking to those who have already passed is very common.

My father mentioned that his family and friends were "calling him over to the other side". My Grandmother claimed her sister was at the foot of the bed, waiting for her, as she passed.

Personally, I found it comforting to think that there were people there to ease their passing. Maybe that's just me.

For those who are not religious, would you prefer your loved ones believed they were accompanied by those they loved (even if you didn't believe it), or not?

Yes. I was with a relative, who was dying, some years ago, and shortly before they died, they spoke to / called out to deceased family members. It didn't bother me at all. They were people that this person had been closest to, in their lives, and it was comforting. I had heard of it happening, but that was the only time I witnessed it happening, for myself.

OP, I don't have any more advice for you, than has already been given. Just wishing you and yours strength.

luketitz · 07-03-2016 11:50PM

Surreal is an other adjective I'd throw into the mix.

Spanish Eyes · 07-03-2016 11:58PM

Loop Zoop wrote: »

Not everyone who dies under the care of a palliative team is on morphine and I can categorically state that it is NOT used with the intent of hastening someone's death.

Morphine pumps are a sign that then end is near. You have to acknowledge that surely.

And anyone I know who has had a person die belonging to them either in a hospital or hospice knows this.

It is not a bad thing, but it does signal the end is near.

Conor Bourke · 08-03-2016 12:00AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Does anyone know for sure if the morphine driver that you hear about, does it actually shorten life?

You often hear that once thats mentioned, you are at the end. But I would think that if you are so far gone that you need that, you are at the point of no return anyway.

Is it different from getting morphine over the space of a few days?

It would be very unusual for someone to be started on a pump/driver with a high dose of morphine out of the blue at the end of life. Usually the person has been taking oral morphine (or another opiate equivalent) for a period beforehand and it's been titrated to achieve adequate pain control. The equivalent 24 hour dose would then be put in the pump/driver if the time came when the person is no longer able to swallow their tablets.

If the person had never been on morphine before but it was felt that they needed it, a very small dose would be added to the pump/driver and top-ups would be given as and when required to ascertain the patients pain relief needs until the time comes to next renew the pumps contents. Not all patients on pumps/drivers are on morphine. Some don't need it and are only on relaxants/anti-sickness/anti-secretories (to try and prevent or lessen that "death rattle")

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I have seen three close family members die from cancer.

All I can say WRT morphine is, when the pump goes on it is near the end.

That is not a bad thing either. Very peaceful and no pain.

Sorry am in floods here now. Just shows you, the actual time of death is not everything, it is what comes after that and the grief. Shock is what happens at time of death.

Sorry if I upset anyone, the thread just brought me right back.

I'm so sorry to hear of your upset

I hope you don't think I'm being insensitive but I just wanted to point out that not everyone needs to be on a pump at the end, and pumps aren't exclusively used at the end of life. Sometimes they need to be used earlier on to manage symptoms but people can often be frightened by the suggestion as the common perception is that once you start on a pump you'll be dead before the week is out but that is not the case.

Are your losses recent? Were you linked in with a palliative care team/hospice? If you're still finding it all too raw, you can approach the services who cared for your loved one to get some support for yourself if you think it might help? Xx

philstar · 08-03-2016 12:12AM

LynnGrace wrote: »

Yes. I was with a relative, who was dying, some years ago, and shortly before they died, they spoke to / called out to deceased family members. It didn't bother me at all.

i wonder is it the effect of the medication? or is it really spiritual ?

Spanish Eyes · 08-03-2016 12:14AM

Loop Zoop wrote: »

It would be very unusual for someone to be started on a pump/driver with a high dose of morphine out of the blue at the end of life. Usually the person has been taking oral morphine (or another opiate equivalent) for a period beforehand and it's been titrated to achieve adequate pain control. The equivalent 24 hour dose would then be put in the pump/driver if the time came when the person is no longer able to swallow their tablets.

If the person had never been on morphine before but it was felt that they needed it, a very small dose would be added to the pump/driver and top-ups would be given as and when required to ascertain the patients pain relief needs until the time comes to next renew the pumps contents. Not all patients on pumps/drivers are on morphine. Some don't need it and are only on relaxants/anti-sickness/anti-secretories (to try and prevent or lessen that "death rattle")

I'm so sorry to hear of your upset
I hope you don't think I'm being insensitive but I just wanted to point out that not everyone needs to be on a pump at the end, and pumps aren't exclusively used at the end of life. Sometimes they need to be used earlier on to manage symptoms but people can often be frightened by the suggestion as the common perception is that once you start on a pump you'll be dead before the week is out but that is not the case.

Are your losses recent? Were you linked in with a palliative care team/hospice? If you're still finding it all too raw, you can approach the services who cared for your loved one to get some support for yourself if you think it might help? Xx

Thanks for your kind reply.

All three deaths were in hospice care which could not be faulted one bit either.

When I saw the pump go on for my sister in 2013, I knew. And she died two days later.

Same for my Dad before her, and my Aunt.

I know what you are saying, but it is a reality for those who do not have medical/nursing experience. Well for me anyway and for those I have lost.

And the care given in all cases was exceptional. I am just being brought back to those days. Sorry it is not easy.

opiniated · 08-03-2016 12:15AM

philstar wrote: »

i wonder is it the effect of the medication? or is it really spiritual ?

In my father's case, he wasn't on any medication. I'm not sure about my grandmother, I was a child at the time, but I don't think she was on any medication, either.

08-03-2016 12:16AM

fryup wrote: »

AH has the most users, all the other forums are too quiet...

I absolutely oppose, reject, slap in the face, throw jarate on and burn in a fire that as a reason to post here....

But I don't oppose this thread being here.

As for my experience, She was made comfortable.

Tom_Barry · 08-03-2016 12:17AM

Thankfully I haven't sat with a loved one - Yet. But I have sat with a few ppl on their death beds and what always struck me was how at peace they looked when they passed. It was as if the pain and suffering suddenly left them. It's a small comfort.

Conor Bourke · 08-03-2016 12:23AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thanks for your kind reply.

All three deaths were in hospice care which could not be faulted one bit either.

When I saw the pump go on for my sister in 2013, I knew. And she died two days later.

Same for my Dad before her, and my Aunt.

I know what you are saying, but it is a reality for those who do not have medical/nursing experience. Well for me anyway and for those I have lost.

And the care given in all cases was exceptional. I am just being brought back to those days. Sorry it is not easy.

You've nothing to apologise for, don't be hard on yourself. It's never easy to bring yourself back in your mind and relive the pain of such a terrible time.

Spanish Eyes · 08-03-2016 12:33AM

Loop Zoop wrote: »

You've nothing to apologise for, don't be hard on yourself. It's never easy to bring yourself back in your mind and relive the pain of such a terrible time.

Thanks. You have something very empathetical in you, and I know we are all here anonymously, but thanks again.

I did have a good oul cry there, probably needed it for a while.

If I am ever that sick I hope I have someone like you looking after me.

Best wishes.

LynnGrace · 08-03-2016 12:44AM

philstar wrote: »

i wonder is it the effect of the medication? or is it really spiritual ?

opiniated wrote: »

In my father's case, he wasn't on any medication. I'm not sure about my grandmother, I was a child at the time, but I don't think she was on any medication, either.

Same in the case of the relative I mentioned. They were not on medication. They were taken ill, quite suddenly, and I happened to be caring for them, at the time that this happened.

No idea, if it is spiritual, but I remember that they spoke, as though they could see the people to whom they were speaking, in the room, with them.

I was fairly young at the time, and it didn't faze me, in the slightest. I found it quite comforting.

philstar · 08-03-2016 12:57AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMr_sapd-qY

dresden8 · 08-03-2016 12:57AM

My mad died last year in the hospice.

I do think they finished her off with pain relievers.

It was the right decision.

Right or wrong it's what I believe.

Spanish Eyes · 08-03-2016 01:03AM

I just want to ask if there is another word for Hospice that could be used for those at end of life?

Just sounds like it is the end if you go there, purely because of the name.

And the reality is so different, it is a way of living.

So get a name change please!

dresden8 · 08-03-2016 01:03AM

If you gave it a new name it would come to mean the same thing.

Spanish Eyes · 08-03-2016 01:13AM

dresden8 wrote: »

If you gave it a new name it would come to mean the same thing.

Possibly, but the word Hospice means imminent death to many.

That may not be fair, but in many cases it is true.

That is not to denigrate the founder of the Hospice Movement either, Dame Cicely Saunders.

A new word for such care might be good.

Things evolve don't they?

Conor Bourke · 08-03-2016 07:01AM

dresden8 wrote: »

My mad died last year in the hospice.

I do think they finished her off with pain relievers.

It was the right decision.

Right or wrong it's what I believe.

I'm sorry for the loss of your Mam. It may be what you believe but I have to say with my hand on my heart that I don't know of any hospice in this country that would do such a thing. It is absolutely not what the philosophy of palliative care is about and it's potentially a very damaging belief to hold onto.

If you're struggling with what you believe happened to your Mam, you can always go back to the hospice to speak to the team who looked after her and get answers to any questions you might have about the care she received. I have participated in case reviews of patients I've cared for up to three years later. It's only been in the last year for you, that's not a long time at all in terms of grief and when the dust settles in the months following a loss such as yours, it is completely natural and appropriate to ruminate over what happened, particularly during the person's dying phase. If a case review is not something you wish to pursue, you could alternatively look into availing of bereavement support if you feel it might be of benefit to you.

This can be a harder time for you than people realise so take care of yourself.

Being at a Deathbed ?

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