Nelson's Pillar

06-03-2016 02:17AM

timthumbni wrote: »

Dublin is one of the worst cities in the world for poverty and child mortality???

Are you serious?

Was

maryishere · 06-03-2016 02:19AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

One of Ireland's most proficient fighters during the war of independence against the British and their proxies, Tom Barry, was the son of an RIC man, served in the British Army, and fought in WWI.

Wonder what his father, the RIC man, thought of him?

And out of hundreds of thousands of Irish people who volunteered to serve in British unifiorms, there were many different shades of political opinion and allegiances, and good luck to them. That would be expected.

buried · 06-03-2016 02:20AM

maryishere wrote: »

Does it touch a raw nerve that so many of the good men under Nelson were Irish?

lol yeah, that's going to have me up all night cursing the universe

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 02:23AM

maryishere wrote: »

And out of hundreds of thousands of Irish people who volunteered to serve in British unifiorms, there were many different shades of political opinion and allegiances, and good luck to them. That would be expected.

The majority of them being loyal British subjects, descendants of the planters. That's like calling unionists in the north your kinsmen. Although there were many Irish in the British Army over the years too, but hundreds of thousands? Get a grip

maryishere · 06-03-2016 02:23AM

riffmongous wrote: »

Dear, Dirty Dublin: A City in Distress, 1899-1916,

You said in the world. You are incorrect, proved by your own quotation.

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 02:25AM

maryishere wrote: »

You said in the world. You are incorrect, proved by your own quotation.

"Indeed from Berlin to Brussels, from Rome to Stockholm and from Philadelphia to Boston,the death rates in major cities rarely exceeded those in the Irish capital"

You can read right? Does it say "death rates in major cities rarely exceeded those in the Irish capital WITH LOADS OF EXCEPTIONS"

Junkyard Tom · 06-03-2016 02:25AM

maryishere wrote: »

there were many different shades of political opinion and allegiances, and good luck to them. That would be expected.

Nah, I'd say the vast majority were motivated by poverty and seeking adventure. Let's not forget the hundreds of thousands who died of starvation while the British military guarded exportation of food to Britain. What a scourge.

In the magazine History Ireland (1997, issue 5, pp. 32–36), Christine Kinealy, a Great Hunger scholar, lecturer, and Drew University professor, relates her findings: Almost 4,000 vessels carried food from Ireland to the ports of Bristol, Glasgow, Liverpool, and London during 1847, when 400,000 Irish men, women, and children died of starvation and related diseases.

wikipedia.org

maryishere · 06-03-2016 02:28AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Although there were many Irish in the British Army over the years too, but hundreds of thousands? Get a grip

Check your history. A total of 206,000 Irishmen served in the British forces during WW1 alone.

And you think I am the one who needs to get a grip?

maryishere · 06-03-2016 02:33AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

"Indeed from Berlin to Brussels, from Rome to Stockholm and from Philadelphia to Boston,the death rates in major cities rarely exceeded those in the Irish capital"

You can read right? Does it say "death rates in major cities rarely exceeded those in the Irish capital WITH LOADS OF EXCEPTIONS"

You said Dublin was one of the worst cities in the world for poverty and child mortality. What about most of the cities of the world, from Cairo to Delhi to
Rio to Beijing?

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 02:36AM

maryishere wrote: »

Check your history. A total of 206,000 Irishmen served in the British forces during WW1 alone.

And you think I am the one who needs to get a grip?

Well over half of them were unionists. Before WW1, there were 50,000 British soldiers from Ireland, again with well over half of them being unionist/British. I'm still struggling to to figure out where you pulled a FEW hundred thousand Irishmen from, unless you are lumping the common Irish man in with the planters to paint a disingenuous picture?

Duckworth_Luas · 06-03-2016 02:36AM

maryishere wrote: »

Check your history. A total of 206,000 Irishmen served in the British forces during WW1 alone.

And you think I am the one who needs to get a grip?

That's an incredibly small number compared to the huge amount of English, Scots and Welsh men who signed up for death.

200,000 even includes all the Irish and Ulster Unionists!

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 02:39AM

maryishere wrote: »

You said Dublin was one of the worst cities in the world for poverty and child mortality. What about most of the cities of the world, from Cairo to Delhi to
Rio to Beijing?

You do realise that line gave you different cities from around the world? To show you how bad Ireland fared in comparison to the rest of the world? Can you not read between the lines? Or are you now being pedantic with particular words to deflect?

buried · 06-03-2016 02:40AM

maryishere wrote: »

You said Dublin was one of the worst cities in the world for poverty and child mortality. What about most of the cities of the world, from Cairo to Delhi to
Rio to Beijing?

Two other cities your guys were wielding the stick of "work" at the time

maryishere · 06-03-2016 02:42AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Nah, I'd say the vast majority were motivated by poverty and seeking adventure. Let's not forget the hundreds of thousands who died of starvation

Indeed, and lets not forget that in the 1847, one of the worst years of the famine,
food exports from Ireland were 120 thousand tons, , and imports of food in the same year was 900 thousand tons......ie, almost 8 times more than exports.
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/famine/summer_1847.html

maryishere · 06-03-2016 02:47AM

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

That's an incredibly small number compared to the huge amount of English, Scots and Welsh men who signed up for death.

but there was no conscription here in those 4 years. 206,000 was a lot of able bodied men to volunteer for war in British uniforms from such a small island as Ireland in the space of 4 years. Many more assisted the British war effort during WW1 in other ways.
What was an "incredibly small number" if you want to look at it, is the number to went in to the GPO in '16, whatever you think of their politics.

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 02:48AM

maryishere wrote: »

but there was no conscription here in those 4 years. 206,000 was a lot of able bodied men to volunteer for war in British uniforms from such a small island as Ireland in the space of 4 years. Many more assisted the British war effort during WW1 in other ways.
What was an "incredibly small number" if you want to look at it, is the number to went in to the GPO in '16, whatever you think of their politics.

And what else did you think 120,000 unionists were going to do?

Why do you keep bringing up the GPO? You do realise most Irish Catholics went on the basis of home rule and most certainly would have never went if they knew they would never get it?

maryishere · 06-03-2016 02:53AM

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

That's an incredibly small number

To put things in perspective, the Irish Army currently only has approximately 7,200 active personnel.

maryishere · 06-03-2016 02:55AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You do realise most Irish Catholics went on the basis of home rule and most certainly would have never went if they knew they would never get it?

You do realise many went for difference reasons- some even went because little Catholic Belgium was attacked?
Throughout the beginning of the war the German army engaged in numerous atrocities against the civilian population of Belgium, and destruction of civilian property; 6,000 Belgians were killed, 25,000 homes and other buildings in 837 communities destroyed in 1914 alone. One and a half million Belgians (20% of the entire population) fled from the invading German army. Throughout the whole war, the Germans killed 27,300 Belgian civilians directly, and an additional 62,000 via the deprivation of food and shelter (not counting deaths from the Spanish flu epidemic).

Duckworth_Luas · 06-03-2016 02:59AM

maryishere wrote: »

To put things in perspective, the Irish Army currently only has approximately 7,200 active personnel.

Yeah, what? What the fcuk?

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 03:05AM

maryishere wrote: »

You do realise many went for difference reasons- some even went because little Catholic Belgium was attacked?
Throughout the beginning of the war the German army engaged in numerous atrocities against the civilian population of Belgium, and destruction of civilian property; 6,000 Belgians were killed, 25,000 homes and other buildings in 837 communities destroyed in 1914 alone. One and a half million Belgians (20% of the entire population) fled from the invading German army. Throughout the whole war, the Germans killed 27,300 Belgian civilians directly, and an additional 62,000 via the deprivation of food and shelter (not counting deaths from the Spanish flu epidemic).

Em, no. Had John Redmond not split the volunteers on the basis of home rule, you'd effectively have 120,000 unionists going alone from Ireland. Any other bits of revisionism on key Irish matters I should be aware of? Going by your inability to read and dissect very simple passages of books on the previous page, it's not surprising that you've a very skewed take on Irish history

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:05AM

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Yeah, what? What the fcuk?

I was replying to your assertion that 206,000 Irish men volunteering to fight in British Army unifioms was , according to you, "an incredibly small number":rolleyes:

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:08AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

. Had.....

had my aunt male genetelia she would be my uncle.

I quoted fact. You say if ... had...but

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 03:12AM

maryishere wrote: »

had my aunt male genetelia she would be my uncle.

I quoted fact. You say if ... had...but

Ye and the fact is they went on the call of John Redmond for home rule. You quoted some facts about Belgium and tried to link it as a fact that this was the reason why many of the Irish went. Whats that you were saying about hypotheticals?

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 03:14AM

maryishere wrote: »

I was replying to your assertion that 206,000 Irish men volunteering to fight in British Army unifioms was , according to you, "an incredibly small number":rolleyes:

Which it was for the time. Even smaller when you take out the unionists.

Junkyard Tom · 06-03-2016 03:19AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Which it was for the time. Even smaller when you take out the unionists.

If you removed the unionists, the poverty stiricken, and the adventure seekers, like Tom Barry, you'd probably be left with nothing.

Poor Maryishere is doing her best to talk up the British Army and Navy while ignoring that the greatest threat to life and liberty of Irish people has been the British forces themselves for centuries.

Sure god love her.

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:21AM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Which it was for the time. Even smaller when you take out the unionists.

You think 206,000 Irish men (from Ireland - not counting those Irishmen in Britain who fought) in British army uniforms between 1914 and 1918 is a incredibly small number? Even though hundreds of thousands helped the war effort in other ways? And you snipe about the "unionists" as if they were not real Irishmen, or people to be despised.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You quoted some facts about Belgium and tried to link it as a fact that this was the reason why many of the Irish went.

many? I did not say many . I said some. "some even went because little Catholic Belgium was attacked". Ever hear of the Rape of Belgium?

maryishere · 06-03-2016 03:26AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

while ignoring that the greatest threat to life and liberty of Irish people has been the British forces themselves for centuries.

As a well know Irish commentator said during the week, it it was not for the British forces you would be speaking German now.
If it was not foir the lads who blew up the pillar, we would have a proper tourist attraction / viewing platform in the middle of our main street in the capital now, which could provide up to 20 million of revenue per year to help the homeless.

If you were homeless in Dublin, would you put up with the pillar if it provided you with a home? Yes or no?

The Golden Miller · 06-03-2016 03:29AM

maryishere wrote: »

You think 206,000 Irish men (from Ireland - not counting those Irishmen in Britain who fought) in British army uniforms between 1914 and 1918 is a incredibly small number? Even though hundreds of thousands helped the war effort in other ways? And you snipe about the "unionists" as if they were not real Irishmen, or people to be despised.

many? I did not say many . I said some. "some even went because little Catholic Belgium was attacked". Ever hear of the Rape of Belgium?

Yes, for the time it was an incredibly small number, even less than half that when you remove unionists. What can't you grasp? How did hundreds of thousands of Irish Catholics help the war effort "in other ways"? Can't wait to hear this. So much I never knew about Irish history until now

Some? Ye, I'd say about 3

GAAman · 06-03-2016 03:36AM

I always love the thought that the ra took out the statue perfectly then the Irish army came in to blow up the rest to remove it and removed half of the street shop fronts! :pac:

buried · 06-03-2016 03:36AM

maryishere wrote: »

As a well know Irish commentator said during the week, it it was not for the British forces you would be speaking German now.
If it was not foir the lads who blew up the pillar, we would have a proper tourist attraction / viewing platform in the middle of our main street in the capital now, which could provide up to 20 million of revenue per year to help the homeless.

If you were homeless in Dublin, would you put up with the pillar if it provided you with a home? Yes or no?

We'd be speaking our own Gaelic language if it wasn't for your gallivanting, war mongering rapscallions

Nelson's Pillar

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