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Comments

  • #152
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Malcolm Substantial Lemonade wrote: »
    As a Christian I wouldn't want to see this forum having a protected status. It kind of defeats the purpose of Christianity but there are elements who come on just to tell us they are atheists and how wrong we are. They just arent happy with spending a large proportion of their time debating the non existence of God in their own forum.(it always amuses me)

    I'm always open to debate but being antagonistic for the sake of it serves no purpose.
    That said, it has become predominantly an RC forum with said RC's belittling those of us who aren't at every turn.
    I've just given up on the forum, even my local PP treats me with more respect at school board meetings than the RC's who are on this forum with an agenda.

    There's just no point being on here.
    This is something I do find interesting. I generally do try really hard to be civil, though sometimes frustration does get the better of me and I will make a comment I probably shouldn't. But I am often surprised at just how nasty some of the christian on christian comments can be.

    Some of the christian poster come over as extremely abrasive and lacking in empathy and really a lot more offensive than most of the atheists.

    I pretty much disagree with everything you believe, but I respect the fact that at least you are open to debate.

    MrP


  • #153
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Some of the christian poster(s) come over as extremely abrasive and lacking in empathy and really a lot more offensive than most of the atheists other posters.

    FYP


  • #154
    solodeogloria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭solodeogloria


    Good evening!

    Don't you think we're all vividly aware of the problems?

    Let's talk about what we would like this place to become and let's get it there.

    I long for an inclusive forum where we can grow in the love of Christ together and a safe space for respectful questioning.

    What do others think?

    Speedwell - if I was in Sligo a tea would be lovely :-)

    Much thanks in our Lord Jesus Christ,
    solodeogloria


  • #155
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Religion does not equal charity and in my own personal experience many of the religious people I have known were not very charitable.

    Doing good deeds whilst patting yourself publicly on the back for being so great and virtuous is not always what it appears to be. Remember Jimmy Saville and all his "charity" work?

    You can't beat the old conditional charity argument. If you are truly charitable why do you need to have the religious strings attached? I'm sure there's a parable or verse or something in the bible which states you should go quietly about your charitable acts and not seek recognition. Correct?

    There are plenty of people and organisations doing equally good charity work without any religious association e.g. Dublin Simon Community, Pieta House, Concern etc etc. who offer unconditional charity, no strings attached.

    Plenty of charitable Atheists who you never hear about because they don't blow their own trumpet in a self serving manner the way the examples you listed do.

    Seriously?! You're shown to be wrong and the best you can do is try redefine charity; insult those who offer it ("blow their own trumpet" as if they're doing it for the praise and glory) and offer 3 examples of 'secular' charity that should be followed instead - without knowing that Concern began as a response to missionaries pleas and Pieta...wait, I'll stop on that word... ever heard of Michelangelo?

    This isn't cheap point-scoring on my behalf; it isn't a list of reasons why religion is better than having none - it is simply highlighting the hypocrisy and stupidity of your thinly-veiled hatred of religion and religious people, masquerading as secularism. It's causing you to say stupid things...
    If you support a charity that does good work, don't stop.


  • #156
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Speedwell wrote: »
    Oy, this thread. Makes me want to drag SoloDeoGloria and a couple mods out of here for a cuppa and let the rest of you marinate in SIWOTI syndrome. :) Signing off... see you on other threads, somewhere in the universe.

    Now I know what SIWOTI syndrome is! Agree entirely, actually I'd feel smug about it if I hadn't picked up the occasional dose myself.


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  • #157
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Malcolm Substantial Lemonade wrote: »
    As a Christian I wouldn't want to see this forum having a protected status. It kind of defeats the purpose of Christianity but there are elements who come on just to tell us they are atheists and how wrong we are. They just arent happy with spending a large proportion of their time debating the non existence of God in their own forum.(it always amuses me)

    I'm always open to debate but being antagonistic for the sake of it serves no purpose.
    That said, it has become predominantly an RC forum with said RC's belittling those of us who aren't at every turn.
    I've just given up on the forum, even my local PP treats me with more respect at school board meetings than the RC's who are on this forum with an agenda.

    There's just no point being on here.

    Whoa! You can accuse RC's of not being nice but you have thrown a few stones too... If writing what we genuinely believe is considered antagonistic or belittling, then yeah, there is no point being on here.
    Why be upset that you don't get respect or love from Boards? I see no people, only words. My interaction with everyone on Boards (bar one) is dependent on electricity, ISP and DDoS attacks: if a 'relationship' can be ended when one of these three are removed, it was never a thing of value to begin with.
    MrPudding wrote: »
    I generally do try really hard to be civil, though sometimes frustration does get the better of me and I will make a comment I probably shouldn't. But I am often surprised at just how nasty some of the christian on christian comments can be.

    Some of the christian poster come over as extremely abrasive and lacking in empathy and really a lot more offensive than most of the atheists.

    MrP

    You come across very differently in your posts in Christianity.


  • #158
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    W



    You come across very differently in your posts in Christianity.
    Like i say, sometimes frustration gets the better of me. And if I am being honest, and this seems to be the thread for doing it, perhaps I get frustrated a little quickly sometimes. I feel pretty strongly about some of this stuff, and I guess that does not help.

    But I am only human, after all.

    MrP


  • #159
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Swanner wrote: »
    FYP

    Your fixing was really pretty pointless. I was making a specific point about how some christian respond to other christians.

    MrP


  • #160
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Your fixing was really pretty pointless. I was making a specific point about how some christian respond to other christians.

    MrP

    Maybe it was a parody of something you do quite a bit? FYP...


  • #161
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Actually, maybe I was wrong and you are actually a pretty nice person.

    FYP. :D

    Perhaps Swanner was attempting to make a funny, maybe he can tell us.

    MrP


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  • #162
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Your fixing was really pretty pointless. I was making a specific point about how some christian respond to other christians.

    Huh :confused:
    MrPudding wrote: »
    Some of the christian poster come over as extremely abrasive and lacking in empathy and really a lot more offensive than most of the atheists.

    Seems to me you're making an entirely different point...

    Anyway, I was simply suggesting that knobs will be knobs regardless of their beliefs or lack of.


  • #163
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Whoa! You can accuse RC's of not being nice but you have thrown a few stones too... If writing what we genuinely believe is considered antagonistic or belittling, then yeah, there is no point being on here.
    Why be upset that you don't get respect or love from Boards? I see no people, only words. My interaction with everyone on Boards (bar one) is dependent on electricity, ISP and DDoS attacks: if a 'relationship' can be ended when one of these three are removed, it was never a thing of value to begin with.



    .
    I'm never afraid to defend my faith against anyone but I don't go around making snide remarks about those I disagree with.
    For the record, I don't regard Roman Catholicism as the gold standard for Christianity but neither do I regard all catholics as non christians unlike certain RC's on this forum ( in reverse obviously)


  • #164
    cattolico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cattolico


    solodeogloria wrote: »
    Good morning!

    MrPudding does have a point. Catholics have presumed for years that they rule Ireland. The reality is they do no longer. I suspect many minority groups have a better understanding of what this looks like. See today's post in the Bible verse discussion thread for what the Bible says about good government.

    Even in many of the threads some of the Catholic posters insist on point scoring rather than trying to see how we can understand Jesus better, the Bible better and how we can understand Him more. Many want to rule this forum also it seems!

    I'm praying for a culture change here. I don't want to discuss banal political culture wars. Rather I want to discuss about Christianity. This happens remarkably rarely here.

    Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
    solodeogloria


    Proof in point why you can't have a Catholic discussion without some like the above appearing.

    If there was a protestant forum discussing a protestant point of view on a certain issue I would not object and I would not but in with my POV.

    Its not Point scoring to argue a point put forward. Its either that or not bother posting.

    solodeogloria came to this forum with half a dozen protestant/Bible threads. Just because I don't believe in the Sola Sciptura base for my faith and I argue that does not mean I am out to scoring Points.

    I think its fantastic that solodeogloria is a Christian and wants to discuss Christ, Really I do and I mean it. But Catholics have their faith and we can't discuss a Catholic topic in ANY depth in this forum.

    That is why it would be better to have a Catholic, Protestant or whatever religion you want forum. Just set a user threshold for opening a new forum. Why not a poll. I;m not saying we should have a forum for Mormon if nobody wants to post on it. But I am sure a Catholic forum for Catholic issues and discussion with Catholics would work.


  • #165
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Malcolm Substantial Lemonade wrote: »
    I'm never afraid to defend my faith against anyone but I don't go around making snide remarks about those I disagree with.
    For the record, I don't regard Roman Catholicism as the gold standard for Christianity but neither do I regard all catholics as non christians unlike certain RC's on this forum ( in reverse obviously)
    If you don't pass snide remarks towards others, continue that way. People are people and snide words will be exchanged: whether they were intended as snide or interpreted as snide is a different matter. I look at the topics here in a calculating manner and trying to convey a feeling of love to people I don't know or ever will know IRL, is a waste of effort. Like I wrote earlier, my involvement in these virtual discussions and interactions rests on electricity and ISP.

    Most people here know your position on the RCC and accept that about you - but you have to accept that we may view as protestant, a Christian group who are not in Communion with the Teaching of the Apostles (how much flowery language must I dress my point in, so that it offends no-one?).

    Besides, does the opinion of RC's really hold so much sway with you? It is "to their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand." Rm 14:4


  • #166
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    To have a Christian forum with separate sub-forums for Catholicism and Protestantism is really a contradiction of Christianity. Let's face it our religion, or non religion, in the majority of cases was decided by someone else and the particular baptismal font, or lack of, was not a democratic choice on our part.

    It is just through chance, that I am not a Catholic, Muslim or Atheist for that matter, therefore I should not be critical of their beliefs. Everyone will be judged according to their light.


  • #167
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    lazybones32 wrote: »

    Most people here know your position on the RCC and accept that about you - but you have to accept that we may view as protestant, a Christian group who are not in Communion with the Teaching of the Apostles (how much flowery language must I dress my point in, so that it offends no-one?).

    Besides, does the opinion of RC's really hold so much sway with you? It is "to their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand." Rm 14:4

    who is in communion with the teaching of the apostles is very much open to interpretation...also I'm not protestant :)

    As for peoples opinions...they'll only hold sway if they are right.


  • #168
    Thinkingaboutit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    This forum is gone beyond a joke. Other users have tried to improve it using the correct methods but to no avail. There is little point using the correct channels to try fix it because those who have the ability to fix it, for whatever reasons, won't.

    @solod... lol! You're 'new' to Boards. You'll see how things play out soon enough.

    I stopped bothering with the Latin Mass thread and soon after the sub. A user who hated the Mass and Catholic Faith, who asked for explanations, which she then denigrated, who often makes half the posts on this whole sub, made it seem a chore. I put her on ignore even though it broke up some threads.


  • #169
    solodeogloria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭solodeogloria


    cattolico wrote: »
    Proof in point why you can't have a Catholic discussion without some like the above appearing.

    If there was a protestant forum discussing a protestant point of view on a certain issue I would not object and I would not but in with my POV.

    Its not Point scoring to argue a point put forward. Its either that or not bother posting.

    solodeogloria came to this forum with half a dozen protestant/Bible threads. Just because I don't believe in the Sola Sciptura base for my faith and I argue that does not mean I am out to scoring Points.

    I think its fantastic that solodeogloria is a Christian and wants to discuss Christ, Really I do and I mean it. But Catholics have their faith and we can't discuss a Catholic topic in ANY depth in this forum.

    That is why it would be better to have a Catholic, Protestant or whatever religion you want forum. Just set a user threshold for opening a new forum. Why not a poll. I;m not saying we should have a forum for Mormon if nobody wants to post on it. But I am sure a Catholic forum for Catholic issues and discussion with Catholics would work.

    Good morning all!

    cattolico:
    Surely a thread discussing the Bible isn't automatically a Protestant thread? Surely Catholics have much to gain from knowing Jesus better in the Bible?

    Surely opposition to sola scriptura doesn't mean you oppose reading and discussing the Bible at all?

    I have no issue with Catholic only issues being discussed but I don't see anything. Abortion and gay marriage affect civil society. They aren't Catholic only issues.

    I hope the next passage in the verse thread gets us thinking of how to love one another as Christians here.

    The mods have said there's no Catholic forum coming and thank God! Even if there was one I'd be there asking questions. Thank God we don't have a CofI / Anglican forum either because on many issues I've got more affinity with free churches. Do you really think fragmentation is a good witness to Christ?

    Shall we discuss solutions now? What do we want from this forum and how do we get there?

    Much thanks in our Lord Jesus,
    solodeogloria


  • #170
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,151 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    MOD NOTE

    Off-topic discussion about atheism moved to atheism superthread.

    Please use that thread if you wish to continue discussion about atheism.

    Thanks for your attention.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #171
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Thinkingaboutit wrote: »
    I stopped bothering with the Latin Mass thread and soon after the sub. A user who hated the Mass and Catholic Faith, who asked for explanations, which she then denigrated, who often makes half the posts on this whole sub, made it seem a chore. I put her on ignore even though it broke up some threads.

    I just had a look at that thread, and person that you are referring to is of another (Christian) denomination, they are not an atheist.

    The only regular A&A poster who entered that entire thread was Looksee, who gave up after a couple of posts after one of the regular RC posters in here, with a attitude on the more rigid/extreme side, jumped down his/her throat immediately, earning a mod reminder, despite that Looksee had entered the discussion with a respectful, information seeking enquiry. Other than that, not a single A&A regular entered the entire 12 page thread!

    Are you sure that it's only us that there is a problem with? It seems to be other denominations, other religions, atheists, agnostics and anyone at all who doesn't tow the RC party line 100%, as per the interpretation of RC doctrine of the more hardline RC members. I imagine that even moderate RC members get a hard time in here by other members who are of their own religion.


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  • #172
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Summary of thread! Some Catholics have extreme difficulty with the realisation that not everyone is Catholic. A great argument against the religious segregation of children from 4 years of age!


  • #173
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,713 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Summary of thread! Some Catholics have extreme difficulty with the realisation that not everyone is Catholic. A great argument against the religious segregation of children from 4 years of age!

    Its not just that. I have found that some (not all) just have great trouble accepting that their dogma just simply is not scriptural and not true. The forgiveness of sins thread is a case in point, a certain poster who is very fond of the ignore list was repeatedly posting that the only way to know your sins are forgiven was to go to confession and see a priest. Despite being told this was not true, the response was "enjoy the ignore list".

    Debate is healthy and one of the most enjoyable things about this forum. But at times it gets frustrating.


  • #174
    pauldla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,248 ✭✭✭pauldla


    As a quick interjection, this 'non-functional forum' has managed to generate 12 pages of comments on this topic, comprising a wide variety of viewpoints. Could we prevail upon the OP for an opinion on the discussion so far?


  • #175
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,479 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Thinkingaboutit wrote: »
    I stopped bothering with the Latin Mass thread and soon after the sub. A user who hated the Mass and Catholic Faith, who asked for explanations, which she then denigrated, who often makes half the posts on this whole sub, made it seem a chore. I put her on ignore even though it broke up some threads.

    I trust I am not the person to whom you refer. I have just re-read the thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97371626#post97371626
    and I cannot see how anything I said could be considered anything other than reasonable and polite enquiry?

    As to hating the Mass and the Catholic faith, it is true I am not a Catholic, I was brought up in the Protestant tradition, but now consider myself an atheist. However I do not hate either the mass or the faith. I might not have a great deal of enthusiasm for the political institution of the Church, and my life has been somewhat negatively impacted by some people's expression of their faith, but really I cannot think of anything in my life that I would say that I hate. Certainly I am not going to invest that amount of emotion in hating the Mass or the Catholic faith.

    When the teachings of the RC church interfere with my civil existence then I am likely to be irritated by it and argue against it. That does not constitute hate.


  • #176
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    looksee wrote: »
    I trust I am not the person to whom you refer. I have just re-read the thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97371626#post97371626
    and I cannot see how anything I said could be considered anything other than reasonable and polite enquiry?

    As to hating the Mass and the Catholic faith, it is true I am not a Catholic, I was brought up in the Protestant tradition, but now consider myself an atheist. However I do not hate either the mass or the faith. I might not have a great deal of enthusiasm for the political institution of the Church, and my life has been somewhat negatively impacted by some people's expression of their faith, but really I cannot think of anything in my life that I would say that I hate. Certainly I am not going to invest that amount of emotion in hating the Mass or the Catholic faith.

    When the teachings of the RC church interfere with my civil existence then I am likely to be irritated by it and argue against it. That does not constitute hate.

    From what I can make out of that thread, I think Thinkaboutit is referring to Katydid, who ironically, is a Christian.


  • #177
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »

    Are you sure that it's only us that there is a problem with? It seems to be other denominations, other religions, atheists, agnostics and anyone at all who doesn't tow the RC party line 100%, as per the interpretation of RC doctrine of the more hardline RC members. I imagine that even moderate RC members get a hard time in here by other members who are of their own religion.
    This was exactly the point I was making. Some of the "blue on blue" comments make even me cringe.

    MrP


  • #178
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    MrPudding wrote: »
    This was exactly the point I was making. Some of the "blue on blue" comments make even me cringe.

    MrP

    Someone above just complained about another persons input into a thread about 'Latin Mass', I had a look to see who they were referring to, and it turns out that it was another Christian of a different denomination, not an atheist.


  • #179
    cattolico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cattolico


    solodeogloria wrote: »
    Good morning all!

    cattolico:
    Surely a thread discussing the Bible isn't automatically a Protestant thread? Surely Catholics have much to gain from knowing Jesus better in the Bible?

    The best way to know Christ is in the Church. [ ekklesia ] The bible came from the Church. The Faith of the Church is cemented on Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium. Christ never wrote any books and the bible does not say that it is the exclusive repository of the faith in Christ. It even says that not everything was written there about Christ. There was no bible as we know it today during the time of the apostles or even in the century following. However there were writings, there was a Church and there was the Church's teaching.

    Of Course the Bible is pivotal to any Christian. But for example many Catholics would have a deep devotion to the Sacred Heart of Christ. The Church approved this based on a long history and ultimately the Revelations of Our Lord to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque. Christ is not a historical figure, caught in a time 2000 years ago. He is a living God, present every day in the Church. And its in the Church and man can know God.

    This is not accepted by protestants because they only see one aspect of what was in the Church as the basis for their whole faith. They will only accept the frozen version as it were of Christ.


  • #180
    solodeogloria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭solodeogloria


    cattolico wrote: »
    The best way to know Christ is in the Church. [ ekklesia ] The bible came from the Church. The Faith of the Church is cemented on Tradition, Scripture, and Magisterium. Christ never wrote any books and the bible does not say that it is the exclusive repository of the faith in Christ. It even says that not everything was written there about Christ. There was no bible as we know it today during the time of the apostles or even in the century following. However there were writings, there was a Church and there was the Church's teaching.

    Of Course the Bible is pivotal to any Christian. But for example many Catholics would have a deep devotion to the Sacred Heart of Christ. The Church approved this based on a long history and ultimately the Revelations of Our Lord to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque. Christ is not a historical figure, caught in a time 2000 years ago. He is a living God, present every day in the Church. And its in the Church and man can know God.

    This is not accepted by protestants because they only see one aspect of what was in the Church as the basis for their whole faith. They will only accept the frozen version as it were of Christ.

    Good evening!

    Thank you for this post!

    Firstly it's become apparent to me that we need a thread to discuss what the Bible is. I agree with you that there is a divergent understanding. I believe the Bible is God's word and the church is subject to it's teaching.

    Secondly - is opposition to sola scriptura really a reason that prohibits discussion of who Jesus is from the Bible. Isn't there a Catholic practice of Lectio Divinia?

    Hoping this can be fruitful!

    Much thanks in Christ Jesus and His imperishable word!
    solodeogloria


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  • #181
    cattolico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭cattolico


    solodeogloria wrote: »
    Good evening!

    Thank you for this post!

    Firstly it's become apparent to me that we need a thread to discuss what the Bible is. I agree with you that there is a divergent understanding. I believe the Bible is God's word and the church is subject to it's teaching.

    Secondly - is opposition to sola scriptura really a reason that prohibits discussion of who Jesus is from the Bible. Isn't there a Catholic practice of Lectio Divinia?

    Hoping this can be fruitful!

    Much thanks in Christ Jesus and His imperishable word!
    solodeogloria


    Why? You obviously have your protestant faith which I fully respect. I have my Catholic faith. I'm scratching my head why I ever joined this forum.

    Where would our discussion go exactly, as you put it if I counter your arguments its point scoring, correct?

    I'm not here to proselytise. But Catholics Should be able to have a Catholic discussion about a Catholic top.

    boards.ie seems fine with lumping us together and then complaining that christians are dysfunctional here.


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