This forum is non-functional

The Chieftain

This forum is clearly not functioning. It is simply a playground for bully boys with a well-known agenda, who come here in numbers to get their jollies by playing games with any poor old Christians who might be unwise enough to be about. Looking at the forum Charter, this should not be allowed. But it is rampant, to the the point where serious discussion is drowned out in repetitious, inane comments and questions.

The charter (rules) of the Christianity forum

"1. ... Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack."

Clearly not so. This got forgotten somewhere along the way?

"3. Bigotry, crude generalisations and unreasonable antagonism will not be tolerated. This rule encompasses all intolerance towards creeds, beliefs, lifestyles or opinions that differ from one's own."

Half the posts are generalizations, intolerant, or antagonistic - towards Christianity.

"5. Arguments such as "There is no God, therefore..." or "The Bible is full of contradictions, therefore..." will not be tolerated. Don't start off with a conclusion which your audience is bound to disagree with!"

Half the "contributions" can be reduced to variations on "Christianity is stupid, therefore...."

"6. Do not post anything intended to inflame or insult."

That is clearly the intent of many posters. Just read their signatures and comments, and ask yourself, why are they even here in this forum if they believe that? There is only one credible answer - they are here to inflame and insult.

"7. .... soap boxing, i.e. constant repetition of a single viewpoint while refusing to entertain discussion on it, is both disruptive and annoying, and will not be tolerated. You are expected to contribute something other than placard proclamations."

Another ignored rule.

Speedwell

And why should Christian talking points get softer treatment than atheist talking points? Is faith not up to being challenged? If my faith couldn't stand up to scrutiny, I might as well not have it.

The Chieftain

Speedwell wrote: »

And why should Christian talking points get softer treatment than atheist talking points? Is faith not up to being challenged? If my faith couldn't stand up to scrutiny, I might as well not have it.

Because this forum isn't really about Christianity at this point, is it? It has been crowded out.

Speedwell

Well, I suppose we will just have to "wait on the Lord" to make things right in His time.

solodeogloria

Good evening!

I think it's unfair to blame atheists for the nature of this forum. If we want the discussion on the forum to have a positive tone we need to set that. If we want to discuss the Gospel of our Lord Jesus let's do that.

I'm enthused about that. However for that to happen denominational sniping needs to end. We can have robust discussion about the Reformation without resorting to shallow and ignorant presumptions. We can have robust debate about atheism without the discussion becoming inflamed.

I believe Christians have a real obligation to show the love that Christ has to atheists. We can disagree but it shouldn't become nasty and rude. Irrespective of what you believe Christians do set the tone here. We can choose to see people as Jesus does or we can't.

I'm hopeful and enthused to live for Jesus both offline and online. Will you join me? That means we've got to follow Jesus in everything rather than just abortion or gay marriage. It means we need to pray before posting and to ask Jesus to become more like Him daily.

Are you in?

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

lazybones32

This forum is gone beyond a joke. Other users have tried to improve it using the correct methods but to no avail. There is little point using the correct channels to try fix it because those who have the ability to fix it, for whatever reasons, won't.

@solod... lol! You're 'new' to Boards. You'll see how things play out soon enough.

AtomicHorror

Atheist here. I cannot speak for others, but I exclusively post in response to specific claims made by posters here (Christian or otherwise). I don't start discussions at all, least of all ones which proactively attack anyone's faith. I post here only to refute any claims made (ostensibly) in line with Christian faith which do not square with science, logic or a casual observation of the world. So, mostly limited to threads with a fundamentalist angle.

It certainly appears to me that this sort of engagement has increased here over the years, but I think that may be reflective of how Irish society is developing. Atheism is on the rise, but fundamentalists are also more vocal, and so these sorts of conversations are tending to dominate.

I don't think I've seen anything I would class as bullying, or crowding out... perhaps some examples would help?

Whosthis

The Chieftain wrote: »

This forum is clearly not functioning. It is simply a playground for bully boys with a well-known agenda, who come here in numbers to get their jollies by playing games with any poor old Christians who might be unwise enough to be about. Looking at the forum Charter, this should not be allowed. But it is rampant, to the the point where serious discussion is drowned out in repetitious, inane comments and questions.

The charter (rules) of the Christianity forum

"1. ... Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack."

Clearly not so. This got forgotten somewhere along the way?

"3. Bigotry, crude generalisations and unreasonable antagonism will not be tolerated. This rule encompasses all intolerance towards creeds, beliefs, lifestyles or opinions that differ from one's own."

Half the posts are generalizations, intolerant, or antagonistic - towards Christianity.

"5. Arguments such as "There is no God, therefore..." or "The Bible is full of contradictions, therefore..." will not be tolerated. Don't start off with a conclusion which your audience is bound to disagree with!"

Half the "contributions" can be reduced to variations on "Christianity is stupid, therefore...."

"6. Do not post anything intended to inflame or insult."

That is clearly the intent of many posters. Just read their signatures and comments, and ask yourself, why are they even here in this forum if they believe that? There is only one credible answer - they are here to inflame and insult.

"7. .... soap boxing, i.e. constant repetition of a single viewpoint while refusing to entertain discussion on it, is both disruptive and annoying, and will not be tolerated. You are expected to contribute something other than placard proclamations."

Another ignored rule.

Forgive us.

The Chieftain

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Atheist here. I cannot speak for others, but I exclusively post in response to specific claims made by posters here (Christian or otherwise). I don't start discussions at all, least of all ones which proactively attack anyone's faith. I post here only to refute any claims made (ostensibly) in line with Christian faith which do not square with science, logic or a casual observation of the world. So, mostly limited to threads with a fundamentalist angle.


I don't think I've seen anything I would class as bullying, or crowding out... perhaps some examples would help?

To answer the last point first. Why don't you take it as an exercise for the student to to simply take a look around.

More to the point, I take issue with your premise that it is appropriate to overrun this forum with posts with non-religious whatifery about this and that scientific point. Repetitiously seeking to confront religion and science in this manner is not only a false starting point, but one that is clearly contrary to the forum Charter. Discussions of cosmology etc. should be pursued in a science forum, not here.

The Chieftain

Whosthis wrote: »

Forgive us.

Not until you have performed appropriate penance.

endacl

The Chieftain wrote: »

To answer the last point first. Why don't you take it as an exercise for the student to to simply take a look around.

More to the point, I take issue with your premise that it is appropriate to overrun this forum with posts with non-religious whatifery about this and that scientific point. Repetitiously seeking to confront religion and science in this manner is not only a false starting point, but one that is clearly contrary to the forum Charter. Discussions of cosmology etc. should be pursued in a science forum, not here.

Point of order...

Whataboutery. Not whatifery. If you're going to be all defensive, you might as well be accurate.

The Chieftain

endacl wrote: »

Point of order...

Whataboutery. Not whatifery. If you're going to be all defensive, you might as well be accurate.

You don't get to choose what I say.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

AtomicHorror wrote: »

It certainly appears to me that this sort of engagement has increased here over the years, but I think that may be reflective of how Irish society is developing. Atheism is on the rise, but fundamentalists are also more vocal, and so these sorts of conversations are tending to dominate.

I don't think I've seen anything I would class as bullying, or crowding out... perhaps some examples would help?

All the moderate Christians have been crowded out, it's been slowly happening probably since the forum was set up, but I think it reached the point of no return within the last couple of years. It's not welcoming to new moderates, and there seemed to be an exodus of the ones that were here.

endacl

The Chieftain wrote: »

You don't get to choose what I say.

If I did, you wouldn't keep in being wrong, and would have had no reason to open this ranty auld thread.

solodeogloria

Good morning!

The Christians set the tone on this forum. Once a day at least I'm going to post a thought on a Bible passage. Let's discuss our faith together by looking at God's Word. Let's discuss what we believe instead of getting obsessed with hobbyhorse issues like abortion and gay marriage. Let's change the dynamic.

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

The Chieftain

endacl wrote: »

If I did, you wouldn't keep in being wrong, and would have had no reason to open this ranty auld thread.

You are demonstrably wrong in your objection. It also very obvious that that is not an exceptional situation.

The Chieftain

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!

The Christians set the tone on this forum. Once a day at least I'm going to post a thought on a Bible passage. Let's discuss our faith together by looking at God's Word. Let's discuss what we believe instead of getting obsessed with hobbyhorse issues like abortion and gay marriage. Let's change the dynamic.

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

Well, I believe abortion and "gay marriage" (sic) are the spawn of the devil. Intrinsically evil. But lets just forget about that and have a nice cup of tai chi and sing kumbaya?

solodeogloria

The Chieftain wrote: »

Well, I believe abortion and "gay marriage" (sic) are the spawn of the devil. Intrinsically evil. But lets just forget about that and have a nice cup of tai chi and sing kumbaya?

Good morning!

Do you believe Christianity is solely concerned with gay marriage and abortion? Or do you think God is interested in confirming is into the likeness of Christ daily until He returns?

Following Jesus completely isn't "kumbaya". It's bloody difficult.

Will you join me?

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

The Chieftain

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!

Do you believe Christianity is solely concerned with gay marriage and abortion? Or do you think God is interested in confirming is into the likeness of Christ daily until He returns?

Following Jesus completely isn't "kumbaya". It's bloody difficult.

Will you join me?

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

I see you are already adapting nicely to the environment in this forum, and busy trying to erect straw men.

Kiwi in IE

Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »

All the moderate Christians have been crowded out, it's been slowly happening probably since the forum was set up, but I think it reached the point of no return within the last couple of years. It's not welcoming to new moderates, and there seemed to be an exodus of the ones that were here.

Could it be that the moderates leave because they find the fundamentalists embarrassing? It's generally the fundamentalists that A&A regulars end up arguing with (some exceptions like Absolam) and generally on topics that affect everyone abortion/education/ideas that are presented as fact in schools (creation)/LGBT rights etc. How many atheists do you see in the prayer/pilgrimage/church treads? Those threads are not really relevant to atheists, they are the personal business of Christians. However when religious doctrine affects our health, rights and what our children are taught in school, it becomes very much our business. If religious rules in Irish society were kept as a matter of personal choice, instead of being allowed to influence civil law and services, secularists and atheists would not have anything to be challenging Christians on.

I don't care if Christians think that God made the world in 7 days, but when state schools are teaching this as fact to my child, we have a problem! It is none of my business if Christians choose to carry their pregnancies to term, regardless of any negative outcomes to themselves, but nor is it their business if I choose not to. Until we have a secular society where the Christian religion does not impact on our rights, atheists, secularists and minority religions will be challenging and opposing Christian influence. Not happy with that? Start advocating for a secular society!

Buona Fortuna

Atheist here, and I have a lot of sympathy with your OP.

But you kind of lost it with this post.

The Chieftain wrote: »

Well, I believe abortion and "gay marriage" are the spawn of the devil (sic). Intrinsically evil (sic). But lets just forget about that and have a nice cup of tai chi and sing kumbaya?

As soon as you start telling people how to live their lives you're putting yourself up there. FYP btw.

Kiwi in IE

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!

The Christians set the tone on this forum. Once a day at least I'm going to post a thought on a Bible passage. Let's discuss our faith together by looking at God's Word. Let's discuss what we believe instead of getting obsessed with hobbyhorse issues like abortion and gay marriage. Let's change the dynamic.

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

The Chieftain wrote: »

Well, I believe abortion and "gay marriage" (sic) are the spawn of the devil. Intrinsically evil. But lets just forget about that and have a nice cup of tai chi and sing kumbaya?

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!

Do you believe Christianity is solely concerned with gay marriage and abortion? Or do you think God is interested in confirming is into the likeness of Christ daily until He returns?

Following Jesus completely isn't "kumbaya". It's bloody difficult.

Will you join me?

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

The Chieftain wrote: »

I see you are already adapting nicely to the environment in this forum, and busy trying to erect straw men.

And we are to blame for putting off moderate Christians?

Speedwell

I was under the impression that it was correct to call intolerance, hatred, murder, and rape "spawn of the Devil", not healthcare and marriage.

Zaph

The Chieftain wrote: »

Well, I believe abortion and "gay marriage" (sic) are the spawn of the devil. Intrinsically evil. But lets just forget about that and have a nice cup of tai chi and sing kumbaya?

Hang on a minute here, there's no "gay marriage" with inverted commas and there's no (sic) either. What there is is civil marriage between two individuals regardless of gender which has been legal in this country since last year. Fair enough if you don't like it, but it's a legal and real thing in this country so stop trying to pretend it's not.

Biffo The Bare

The Chieftain wrote: »

This forum is clearly not functioning. It is simply a playground for bully boys with a well-known agenda, who come here in numbers to get their jollies by playing games with any poor old Christians who might be unwise enough to be about. Looking at the forum Charter, this should not be allowed. But it is rampant, to the the point where serious discussion is drowned out in repetitious, inane comments and questions.

The charter (rules) of the Christianity forum

"1. ... Christians should not have to defend their faith from overt or subtle attack."

Clearly not so. This got forgotten somewhere along the way?

"3. Bigotry, crude generalisations and unreasonable antagonism will not be tolerated. This rule encompasses all intolerance towards creeds, beliefs, lifestyles or opinions that differ from one's own."

Half the posts are generalizations, intolerant, or antagonistic - towards Christianity.

"5. Arguments such as "There is no God, therefore..." or "The Bible is full of contradictions, therefore..." will not be tolerated. Don't start off with a conclusion which your audience is bound to disagree with!"

Half the "contributions" can be reduced to variations on "Christianity is stupid, therefore...."

"6. Do not post anything intended to inflame or insult."

That is clearly the intent of many posters. Just read their signatures and comments, and ask yourself, why are they even here in this forum if they believe that? There is only one credible answer - they are here to inflame and insult.

"7. .... soap boxing, i.e. constant repetition of a single viewpoint while refusing to entertain discussion on it, is both disruptive and annoying, and will not be tolerated. You are expected to contribute something other than placard proclamations."

Another ignored rule.

Forgive them. They know not what they do.

AtomicHorror

The Chieftain wrote: »

To answer the last point first. Why don't you take it as an exercise for the student to to simply take a look around.

So we're playing a game where you make a claim and I have to go prove it?

Not interested.

The Chieftain wrote: »

More to the point, I take issue with your premise that it is appropriate to overrun this forum with posts with non-religious whatifery about this and that scientific point.

That's not my premise. If it were my premise, I still didn't say it was acceptable.

The Chieftain wrote: »

Repetitiously seeking to confront religion and science in this manner is not only a false starting point, but one that is clearly contrary to the forum Charter.

In the post to which you are replying, I stated very clearly that I only respond to such points when raised by Christian posters. I do not initiate.

The Chieftain wrote: »

Discussions of cosmology etc. should be pursued in a science forum, not here.

Take it up with your fundamentalist friends. They're the ones posting threads attacking, denying or subverting science to fit their position. I post in response only.

uck51js9zml2yt

I was going to post here but the thread degraded into the usual insults and accusations....so I gave up!

Buona Fortuna

Malcolm Substantial Lemonade wrote: »

I was going to post here but the thread degraded into the usual insults and accusations....so I gave up!

Pity. Did you have a really good point?

The Chieftain

Thank you all for so quickly and comprehensively demonstrating the truth of the assertions I made in my original post! Very decent and accommodating of you all.

That there is no attempt to conceal the organized, group nature of these "contributions" points to another item that should be added to the charge sheet.

These contributions amount to nothing but a macho, testosterone fueled, look at me, the he-atheist, smiting the Christians, blood sport.

Stheno

The Chieftain wrote: »

These contributions amount to nothing but a macho, testosterone fueled, look at me, the he-atheist, smiting the Christians, blood sport.

You do realise that some of the non Christians posting are female?:pac:

lazygal

The Chieftain wrote: »

Thank you all for so quickly and comprehensively demonstrating the truth of the assertions I made in my original post! Very decent and accommodating of you all.

That there is no attempt to conceal the organized, group nature of these "contributions" points to another item that should be added to the charge sheet.

These contributions amount to nothing but a macho, testosterone fueled, look at me, the he-atheist, smiting the Christians, blood sport.

Can the wimmins not do this too? #confused

Speedwell

lazygal wrote: »

Can the wimmins not do this too? #confused

Even the ones who agree with him come in for a share of his wrath. Oh, by the way, isn't wrath one of those sinful things, too?

Stheno

Speedwell wrote: »

Even the ones who agree with him come in for a share of his wrath. Oh, by the way, isn't wrath one of those sinful things, too?

One of the seven deadly sins I do believe. (well actually I don't "believe" but you get my drift.)

lazygal

Speedwell wrote: »

Even the ones who agree with him come in for a share of his wrath. Oh, by the way, isn't wrath one of those sinful things, too?

Mortal or venal? Asking for a friend.

lazygal

Stheno wrote: »

One of the seven deadly sins I do believe. (well actually I don't "believe" but you get my drift.)

Are there lists of less deadly sins at all?

steamengine

Speedwell wrote: »

Even the ones who agree with him come in for a share of his wrath. Oh, by the way, isn't wrath one of those sinful things, too?

No, God is allowed do wrath according to the bible.

lazygal

This is fierce confusing. Can I be wrathful or not?

Speedwell

lazygal wrote: »

This is fierce confusing. Can I be wrathful or not?

That depends. Are you a Christian or not?

lazygal

Speedwell wrote: »

That depends. Are you a Christian or not?

I don't know. What should I be looking for to identify whether I am?

Stheno

lazygal wrote: »

This is fierce confusing. Can I be wrathful or not?

No you cannot be wrathful. However you can be angry.

7. WRATH

Wrath is wanting to hurt someone. It is not anger, which is normal and is really frustration and rebellion at being powerless. Wrath is wanting to cause pain, and being motivated by this to actually cause pain. A little bit, especially when driving, is okay. Carrying a weapon and firing at both the stupid and insane people driving near you isn't okay.

Speedwell

lazygal wrote: »

I don't know. What should I be looking for to identify whether I am?

Well, the Reformed church I grew up in used to recite the Apostles' Creed. Then when I went to college, I joined a local Southern Baptist church where I was "born again" and "saved by faith". Then after I graduated, I used to go with my mother to her charismatic church where they thought that if you were a Christian, you would show "spiritual gifts" like speaking in tongues. I suppose that if you are really a Christian, you would be performing miracles in Jesus' name, just like he promised. Are you?

lazygal

Speedwell wrote: »

Well, the Reformed church I grew up in used to recite the Apostles' Creed. Then when I went to college, I joined a local Southern Baptist church where I was "born again" and "saved by faith". Then after I graduated, I used to go with my mother to her charismatic church where they thought that if you were a Christian, you would show "spiritual gifts" like speaking in tongues. I suppose that if you are really a Christian, you would be performing miracles in Jesus' name, just like he promised. Are you?

How do I know its a miracle? I made a balls of a chocolate cake recipe but it turned out perfect. Miracle?

Speedwell

lazygal wrote: »

How do I know its a miracle? I made a balls of a chocolate cake recipe but it turned out perfect. Miracle?

Only God can create something perfect, as an Old Order Amish quilter once told me, as she explained why she purposely turned a single quilt block out of alignment on each quilt top she made. It occurred to me later that she evidently believed that if she didn't take care to purposely make her work imperfect, she would be in direct competition to the Lord. But I suppose that was just the Devil speaking in my ear.

haveringchick

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good evening!

I think it's unfair to blame atheists for the nature of this forum. If we want the discussion on the forum to have a positive tone we need to set that. If we want to discuss the Gospel of our Lord Jesus let's do that.

I'm enthused about that. However for that to happen denominational sniping needs to end. We can have robust discussion about the Reformation without resorting to shallow and ignorant presumptions. We can have robust debate about atheism without the discussion becoming inflamed.

I believe Christians have a real obligation to show the love that Christ has to atheists. We can disagree but it shouldn't become nasty and rude. Irrespective of what you believe Christians do set the tone here. We can choose to see people as Jesus does or we can't.

I'm hopeful and enthused to live for Jesus both offline and online. Will you join me? That means we've got to follow Jesus in everything rather than just abortion or gay marriage. It means we need to pray before posting and to ask Jesus to become more like Him daily.

Are you in?

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

God bless you but your new.
You have no idea how angry and obsessed the ones who profess NOT to believe are with the people who DO believe
It's non stop really
Sure they're on this thread having a little chat amongst themselves
Nobody's paying them any attention but that makes no difference
It's funny really
I've put some of the posts on my Facebook page over the years
They get some lols!

The Chieftain

lazygal wrote: »

Can the wimmins not do this too? #confused

Do you really want to reinforce the perception that "wimmins" (sic) are perpetually confused?

The Chieftain

So lets see, 14 posts in a row, from those-who-cannot-be-named, having some sort of organized internal fun-fest. And hijacking this thread in the process. Earlier, one of the willfully blind asked for examples of what I complained of. Well here it is.

Delirium

MOD NOTE

The topic of the thread seems to be an attempt to provide some feedback about perceived problems with the forum.

If posters can't keep to the topic (and possibly try to be constructive at the same time), then there isn't much point in leaving the thread open.

So do try to make use of the thread while you have the opportunity.

lazygal

The Chieftain wrote: »

Do you really want to reinforce the perception that "wimmins" (sic) are perpetually confused?

Is that a perception?

Cabaal

The Chieftain wrote: »

Because this forum isn't really about Christianity at this point, is it? It has been crowded out.

How could it be crowded out though?

We live in a country that has approx 80% of the country who identify themselves as Catholic, by that logic alone the atheists are in a minority on boards.ie?

I suspect the issue is most Catholics/Christians have little or no interest in discussing their favorite mass or reading, which can then result in some of the more obsessive followers posting in this forum which in turn puts off the avg Catholic/Christian from bothering with this forum. (obviously not everybody in the forum is obsessive but some certainly are and others are happy to preach hatred)

I know many Catholics, my parents for example and 99% of the one's I know and I've talked to were sickened by the church's approach to gay marriage back in 2015...especially when the church preached hatred during children's communion masses.

This puts off most Catholics bothering with anything religious when they see this type of hatred and The Chieftain is only making things worse with the hateful comments made in this thread. Such a shame really.

Blaming atheists is a cop out, we can all live in peace, but only when no hatred is preached by either side.

solodeogloria

Cabaal wrote: »

How could it be crowded out though?

We live in a country that has approx 80% of the country who identify themselves as Catholic, by that logic alone the atheists are in a minority on boards.ie?

I suspect the issue is most Catholics/Christians have little or no interest in discussing their favorite mass or reading, which can then result in some of the more obsessive followers posting in this forum which in turn puts off the avg Catholic/Christian from bothering with this forum. (obviously not everybody in the forum is obsessive but some certainly are)

Good morning!

Sadly I agree. I'm hoping to play my part in starting a Bible thread a day with some observations. That's what my faith is about getting to know Jesus more. Although I'm conservative on both marriage and abortion I'm bloody sick of ignoring 90% of what Jesus has to say by obsessing on them.

I'm hoping to do my little part to change that God willing.

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

The Chieftain

Cabaal wrote: »

How could it be crowded out though?

We live in a country that has approx 80% of the country who identify themselves as Catholic, by that logic alone the atheists are in a minority on boards.ie?

That logic makes a big assumption: that boards.ie reflects the country. Obviously not. And these specific board don't even reflect the generality of boards.ie The A&A forum has a surfet of young, militant, in your face, nihilistic secularists, who are happy to relieve their own frustrations by playing hunt the Christians over here.

Cabaal wrote: »

I suspect the issue is most Catholics/Christians have little or no interest in discussing their favorite mass or reading, which can then result in some of the more obsessive followers posting in this forum which in turn puts off the avg Catholic/Christian from bothering with this forum. (obviously not everybody in the forum is obsessive but some certainly are)

Most Catholics/Christians are happy with their faith, and don't see the need to roam the internet in search of quarrels.