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tommy2bad · 29-02-2016 11:01AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I think the reason for that is down purely to the subject matter.

In the DIY forum for example there is a collegial atmosphere where people help each other and generally remain polite even if they have different opinions on the best XYZ tool or ABC way to fix a leaking tap or whatever.

Religion however, like politics, is a subject which polarises people. It wouldn't be so polarising if religion didn't permeate into every nook and cranny of society and impose itself on those who want nothing whatsoever to do with religion and consequently resent having their lives affected by a religion they want nothing to do with e.g. (simplistic example) not being permitted to purchase alcohol on a religious holiday.

Thankfully religious influence on Irish society is IMHO in free-fall (majority of people voting for same sex marriage and divorce, rising non denominational marriage and funeral ceremonies, falling attendance at mass, collapse in the number of people signing up to be priests or nuns etc) so hopefully when a fairer equilibrium is reached religious discussion forums will primarily be used by those of faith as those without faith won't have an issue with the influence of religion on all of society and won't have any axe to grind.

Is that the reason so many posters turn up to counter every faith based assertion? An axe to grind? How sad.
Define fairer equilibrium?
Of course a solution would be a separate forum for axe grinding or a separate mega thread. Thus freeing up the other threads for faith discussion.

Manach · 29-02-2016 11:09AM

MrPudding wrote: »

It surprises you that things get fractious when one group tries to impose their (apparently) irrational views on a group that does now share those views? Really?

MrP

Point proven.

solodeogloria · 29-02-2016 11:14AM

Good morning!

MrPudding does have a point. Catholics have presumed for years that they rule Ireland. The reality is they do no longer. I suspect many minority groups have a better understanding of what this looks like. See today's post in the Bible verse discussion thread for what the Bible says about good government.

Even in many of the threads some of the Catholic posters insist on point scoring rather than trying to see how we can understand Jesus better, the Bible better and how we can understand Him more. Many want to rule this forum also it seems!

I'm praying for a culture change here. I don't want to discuss banal political culture wars. Rather I want to discuss about Christianity. This happens remarkably rarely here.

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

54and56 · 29-02-2016 11:39AM

tommy2bad wrote: »

Is that the reason so many posters turn up to counter every faith based assertion? An axe to grind? How sad.

If someone feel institutionally oppressed, whether it is by the imposition of religious beliefs on their day to day life or the imposition of state promoted discrimination such as apartheid, it is absolutely right for such a person to challenge the foundations of such intolerant behaviour anywhere and everywhere they encounter it. There should be no safe haven where the discussion of such ideas is above criticism or ridicule and the normal rules of trolling and flaming should apply, no more and no less.

Two things are sad:-

1. That religion has had such a negative effect on so many people that they do have a justifiable axe to grind.

2. That someone would take the view that people who don't tolerate having religious ideals imposed on them and stand up against such behaviour are viewed as being sad. Have you watched the Oscar award winning movie Spotlight yet by any chance?

tommy2bad wrote: »

Define fairer equilibrium?

The complete and total separation of church (i.e. all churches not just christian churches) and state so those who want to practice their religion can do so on the same basis without fear or favour as those with other personal hobbies which as pony trekking or sea angling. If people want to organise themselves into groups to review and discuss one faith or another they should be absolutely free to do so and they should not be positively or negatively discriminated against in any way.

I don't care for knitting, it's not something that interests me in the slightest but I accept some people do like knitting and I defend their right to form a group and knit away to their hearts content as long as it doesn't have any impact on me and IMHO the same should apply to religions. Just keep it personal but the problem of course is that so many religions contain elements which require the faithful to go out and convert the rest of the world to their particular flavour of religion and that's where the line has to be drawn and resistance has to be shown otherwise we end up back in 1950's Ireland or middle east countries with state imposed religion etc.

Speedwell · 29-02-2016 12:20PM

Everyone's aware of this, but I thought it needs to be stated anyway.

"Atheism" is not the same thing as "disagreement with Christians". It is not even the same thing as "disagreement with Christianity" (however you choose to define Christianity). As the intellectual, thoroughly secular, Jewish half of my family demonstrates, it isn't even identical with "the choice not to identify with or practice a religion". Christians can disagree with other Christians. Atheists can often agree with Christians (on points other than key Christian dogma). People of other religions may surely have an opinion and a voice with regard to Christianity.

If I were to modestly suggest a clause in the charter to the Christianity forums, however, it would be simply that all discussions need to address topics within and about Christianity and the Christian experience (whether of agreement or disagreement). If I, as an atheist, want to address the scholarly debate known as "The Jesus Myth", that would fall within that clause. If I wanted to address the question of whether religions were dangerous to the development of a modern society, that would fall outside that clause even if Christianity was one of the religions under discussion. If I, as a former Christian, wanted to start a thread in which people could ask me why I left Christianity, and I kept my answers intelligible to a Christian audience, that would presumably be OK. If I went off into a side rant about a religion I would have felt more inclined to stay in, that would, I think, belong in some other category. If I, as a former Christian, wanted to point out which of the vocal Christians in this thread (Chieftain or Solo) would probably be more likely to hear "Well done, good and faithful servant" from the God the Bible purportedly portrays, it would surely be my opinion (and a contentious one at that), but it would be properly voiced within the Christianity forum.

I hope that makes sense

(Edited to add: ) I think it's worth saying that respect for people, which is necessary, is not the same as respect for or acceptance of a given worldview or religion, any more than having respect for doctors means that you have to respect or accept the theory of the four humors of Hippocratic medicine. "You flat-earth moron" is not identical with "The theory of a geocentric universe is nonsense and you should not believe such things".

ABC101 · 29-02-2016 01:20PM

I'm late to this thread, however I do agree with the OP.

The Christianity Forum is definitely becoming / has become a hostile forum for Christians.

Without naming names or groups... but certain posters are allowed to post repetitive condescending posts, habitually condescending posts all the time.

There is also a second feature, and that is if one is to attempt to defend oneself against a pointed post, one rapidly gets "ticked off" by a moderator.

There is no point in attempting to contribute to boards if there is not a level playing field for all posters.

In addition some posters seem to appear to be more interested in posting cutting condescending smart alec comments rather than attempting to reason / debate the issue.

I'm not sure what the position of the moderators are... however it appears they are either indifferent to condescending posts or are overworked / worn out / tired of attempting to correct the same old drivel.

If a believer makes a statement... proof must be offered / links. But a non believer is able to make broad sweeping statements like "religion holds educational development back" without having to offer any links / proof etc.

In short my viewpoint is..

1) Not a level paying field.
2) Constantly going over the same old arguments.
3) Constantly receiving the same old condescending abuse.
4) Unable to defend oneself (even justifiably) without attracting a moderators attention.
5) Spiteful condescending posts attract many "like votes" which illustrate a pack mentality at work in the forum, as distinct from a "well that was a point well made".
6) Moderators appear to be either indifferent / unwilling to correct / pull up habitually insulting / condescending posters.

Benny_Cake · 29-02-2016 02:00PM

As a former mod in this parish who is quite happy to be a former mod, one thing that a lot of people refuse to do is to report offending posts (I found that some people got quite passive-aggressive if you suggested that they do this). You simply can't guarantee that moderators will be able to read every post and at least by reporting it you can be sure that they will be alerted and that it will be reviewed in due course.

I agree that there are a few posters who are fixated on one or two issues and who will try to bring them up at every opportunity. If someone is upset at the education system, or the 8th Amendment, then they absolutely should have the right to discuss this on the relevant threads. Having a pop at Christians in unrelated threads due to some sense of righteous indignation on these matters isn't in keeping with my reading of the charter - again, these posts should be reported.

Delirium · 29-02-2016 02:04PM

ABC101 wrote: »

I'm late to this thread, however I do agree with the OP.

The Christianity Forum is definitely becoming / has become a hostile forum for Christians.

Without naming names or groups... but certain posters are allowed to post repetitive condescending posts, habitually condescending posts all the time.

The first thing I would suggest is to report such posts. While posters may have moments of condescendion, to be habitually condescending to other posters is only going to put people off posting here. So please do report such posts.

There is also a second feature, and that is if one is to attempt to defend oneself against a pointed post, one rapidly gets "ticked off" by a moderator.

Could you give a link, (either here or by PM) to better understand what you mean?

There is no point in attempting to contribute to boards if there is not a level playing field for all posters.

can certainly see why that would put people off posting. The forum should be a level playing for posters. If you wish to expand a bit on what these imbalances are for posters, it would be appreciated (here or via PM).

In addition some posters seem to appear to be more interested in posting cutting condescending smart alec comments rather than attempting to reason / debate the issue.

Posting to wind up/ goad other posters isn't accepatable, so please report such posts.

I'm not sure what the position of the moderators are... however it appears they are either indifferent to condescending posts or are overworked / worn out / tired of attempting to correct the same old drivel.

I've not seen many (and certainly not to the level your post suggests) of that type of posts in the forum. Granted, I don't read every post made so there is some help required from posters by reporting such posts.

If a believer makes a statement... proof must be offered / links. But a non believer is able to make broad sweeping statements like "religion holds educational development back" without having to offer any links / proof etc.

Just to be clear, that isn't a moderating issue but just the nature of discussion forums. There is nothing stopping any poster from asking for links to support the claim "religion holds educational development back".

In short my viewpoint is..

1) Not a level paying field.
2) Constantly going over the same old arguments.
3) Constantly receiving the same old condescending abuse.
4) Unable to defend oneself (even justifiably) without attracting a moderators attention.
5) Spiteful condescending posts attract many "like votes" which illustrate a pack mentality at work in the forum, as distinct from a "well that was a point well made".
6) Moderators appear to be either indifferent / unwilling to correct / pull up habitually insulting / condescending posters.

Thanks for that post, it has been helpful to see where problems may lie in the forum.

The Bishop Basher · 29-02-2016 02:36PM

MrPudding wrote: »

It surprises you that things get fractious when one group tries to impose their (apparently) irrational views on a group that does now share those views? Really?

MrP

But who's trying to impose their views on whom ?

Seems to me this forum is made up primarily of atheists deliberately trying to disrupt any attempt at reasonable discussion between Christians. In fact much of this thread is a perfect case in point.

What surprises me most is that despite having their own forum, atheists just can't seem to get enough of this place, yourself included Mr Pudding.

Maybe it's a primal yearning for a faith or a subconscious desire to connect to god or something but it's certainly an odd one worthy of your introspection :-)

54and56 · 29-02-2016 03:20PM

Swanner wrote: »

What surprises me most is that despite having their own forum, atheists just can't seem to get enough of this place, yourself included Mr Pudding.

Maybe it's a primal yearning for a faith or a subconscious desire to connect to god or something but it's certainly an odd one worthy of your introspection :-)

What surprises me the most is that despite having their own buildings to facilitate discussion and practice of their faith religious people just can't be content to leave the rest of the population alone and instead venture into parts of society where they are not invited or wanted but decide to project their views and beliefs anyway.

What sort of a double standard would it be if Atheists didn't reciprocate and engage with religious believers in locations where Atheists may not have been expressly invited to?

lazybones32 · 29-02-2016 03:24PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

What surprises me the most is that despite having their own buildings to facilitate discussion and practice of their faith religious people just can't be content to leave the rest of the population alone and instead venture into parts of society where they are not invited or wanted but decide to project their views and beliefs anyway.

What sort of a double standard would it be if Atheists didn't reciprocate and engage with religious believers in locations where Atheists may not have been expressly invited to?

I know! Fr. Peter McVerry and the Franciscans running the soup kitchens and the St. V de P are signs of religious "venturing into Society" when clearly, the Govt. are doing more than enough and those pesky religious should not interfere but keep their horrendous notions of charity to themselves...

steamengine · 29-02-2016 03:30PM

lazybones32 wrote: »

I know! Fr. Peter McVerry and the Franciscans running the soup kitchens and the St. V de P are signs of religious "venturing into Society" when clearly, the Govt. are doing more than enough and those pesky religious should not interfere but keep their horrendous notions of charity to themselves...

...........and those church bells which keep dinging at midday and at 6 pm in the evening - terrible altogether Joe.

54and56 · 29-02-2016 03:44PM

lazybones32 wrote: »

I know! Fr. Peter McVerry and the Franciscans running the soup kitchens and the St. V de P are signs of religious "venturing into Society" when clearly, the Govt. are doing more than enough and those pesky religious should not interfere but keep their horrendous notions of charity to themselves...

Religion does not equal charity and in my own personal experience many of the religious people I have known were not very charitable.

Doing good deeds whilst patting yourself publicly on the back for being so great and virtuous is not always what it appears to be. Remember Jimmy Saville and all his "charity" work?

You can't beat the old conditional charity argument. If you are truly charitable why do you need to have the religious strings attached? I'm sure there's a parable or verse or something in the bible which states you should go quietly about your charitable acts and not seek recognition. Correct?

There are plenty of people and organisations doing equally good charity work without any religious association e.g. Dublin Simon Community, Pieta House, Concern etc etc. who offer unconditional charity, no strings attached.

Plenty of charitable Atheists who you never hear about because they don't blow their own trumpet in a self serving manner the way the examples you listed do.

Delirium · 29-02-2016 03:46PM

MOD NOTE

This thread is for feedback in this discussion forum, not religion in wider society.

Please try keep to the topic.

54and56 · 29-02-2016 03:47PM

steamengine wrote: »

...........and those church bells which keep dinging at midday and at 6 pm in the evening - terrible altogether Joe.

Don't forget 6am Steam, I live beside a convent and the nuns kindly provide a backing track to the wonderful dawn chorus that's taking shape the last couple of weeks as I head out each morning.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers · 29-02-2016 04:06PM

Is there anything to be said for thread prefixes at all? [Christian] [Catholic] [general] etc.

Sometimes (often) you'd see a thread with a simple question on christening etiquette, and it'd descend into a debate on faith vs works based salvation

The Bishop Basher · 29-02-2016 04:22PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

What surprises me the most is that despite having their own buildings to facilitate discussion and practice of their faith religious people just can't be content to leave the rest of the population alone and instead venture into parts of society where they are not invited or wanted but decide to project their views and beliefs anyway.

I don't disagree with you on the point but would you not see it as an odd response that despite this you choose to spend your time hanging out with Christians in a Christian forum ?

Maybe the intent isn't to disrupt but forcing an atheist agenda on every religious discussion will inevitably have a disruptive effect as we see here time and time again.

Just live and let live surely...

Speedwell · 29-02-2016 04:28PM

Swanner wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the point but would you not see it as an odd response that despite this you choose to spend your time hanging out with Christians in a Christian forum ?

Maybe the intent isn't to disrupt but forcing an atheist agenda on every religious discussion will inevitably have a disruptive effect as we see here time and time again.

Just live and let live surely...

Well, I can only speak for myself, but this is only one of the fora to which I contribute, and I don't contribute to most of it, either. Perhaps it would also be to the point to ask why Christian people choose to spend so much of their time debating atheists at the possible expense of a fully-lived life. After all, live and let live, surely. I don't have any problem whatsoever with Christians who debate me in good faith. I have good answers for them and I don't have to even raise my voice if they also keep their temper.

Do you really think that Christians need protected space and Christianity requires such kid-glove handling? That's not even Biblical. 1 Peter 3:15: "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect."

Edit: That's not a terrible verse for all debaters to keep in mind, regardless of viewpoint.

MrPudding · 29-02-2016 04:29PM

Swanner wrote: »

But who's trying to impose their views on whom ?

Seems to me this forum is made up primarily of atheists deliberately trying to disrupt any attempt at reasonable discussion between Christians. In fact much of this thread is a perfect case in point.

What surprises me most is that despite having their own forum, atheists just can't seem to get enough of this place, yourself included Mr Pudding.

Maybe it's a primal yearning for a faith or a subconscious desire to connect to god or something but it's certainly an odd one worthy of your introspection :-)

With the greatest of respect, you have completely missed the point. The imposition I was talking about was society in general, not a discussion forum! I love boards, but really, it is pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

It is the imposition in society, or the attempted imposition, that gets people wounds up, and that then translates into these discussions* on this board. There are certain thread that the atheists tend to avoid, they would typically be prayer request threads for example (though I may have posted there a long time ago...:p). I think most atheist also avoid those scary threads where the religious show how dysfunctional religion, never mind this forum, is. I tend to only read those, as it amuses me to see people arguing the finer points of something I genuinely believe is made up.

I also find it amusing that there are wails of persecution and victimisation whenever some posters are faced with people that don't believe with them and don't think they are entitled to any special treatment in society.

But what I find the funniest is this: The religious are certain of their beliefs, at least some of them are. There are plenty of poster on this forum that will tell you they know 100%, absolutely know, that their belief is the true and correct belief. Then you look at us atheists. Most of us, certainly me, don't know what the truth is for sure. I am, believe it or not, actually open to being convinced. I am not certain in my beliefs, I don't know the truth. I think I know it, and I have not seen anything to suggest I am wrong, but I don't know. And here is the funny bit, it is the people that apparently know that seem stop be scared of questions. The difference between the two forums is quite stark. Why is that?

MrP

* I use the term discussion with this meaning:

noun
1. an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions; informal debate.

As opposed to the meaning some of the poster here want, where only opinions that agree are valid.

The Bishop Basher · 29-02-2016 04:35PM

Speedwell wrote: »

Well, I can only speak for myself, but this is only one of the fora to which I contribute, and I don't contribute to most of it, either. Perhaps it would also be to the point to ask why Christian people choose to spend so much of their time debating atheists at the possible expense of a fully-lived life. After all, live and let live, surely.

But they don't.

I'm neither christian nor atheist but i enjoy both forums.

I've enjoyed the christian forum a lot less lately because of the disruptive element and it seems many of the Christians feel the same.

The atheist forum does not have a cohort of christians seeking to disrupt every discussion and it's a better forum as a result.

AtomicHorror · 29-02-2016 04:35PM

Swanner wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the point but would you not see it as an odd response that despite this you choose to spend your time hanging out with Christians in a Christian forum ?

Maybe the intent isn't to disrupt but forcing an atheist agenda on every religious discussion will inevitably have a disruptive effect as we see here time and time again.

If it was on "every" religious discussion, you might have a point. We tend to ignore the Christian to Christian discussions on the specifics of this interpretation or that (see the bible verses thread for example, where the only atheist contribution is questions about the meaning of certain concepts) or where practical questions about services etc. are asked. Unless we have something constructive to add, you usually won't see a non-Christian response.

Mostly this is because we don't find these topics very interesting.

The atheists mostly respond to scientific or practical claims which contradict our understanding of the world. So lots of reactions to Creationism, abortion, homosexuality etc.

Can't say how I see it is "forced". Unsolicited, at worst. Tbh, it often seems like some of the Christian posters here are upset at the very notion of being question in any depth, let alone contradicted, so I guess that would appear like a forced agenda or some sort of oppression, from a very sheltered perspective.

AtomicHorror · 29-02-2016 04:37PM

Swanner wrote: »

The atheist forum does not have a cohort of christians seeking to disrupt every discussion and it's a better forum as a result.

It used to, but the core group that did so (J_C, wolfsbane and friends) seems to have mostly left Boards. I doubt very much they did so because they had any issues with a hostile environment. They were pretty tough.

MrPudding · 29-02-2016 04:43PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

It used to, but the core group that did so (J_C, wolfsbane and friends) seems to have mostly left Boards. I doubt very much they did so because they had any issues with a hostile environment. They were pretty tough.

wolfsbane is long gone but the other one, I won't mention his name in case he hears, does pop in every once and a while. Still holder of strange and interesting views and beliefs

MrP

The Bishop Basher · 29-02-2016 04:44PM

MrPudding wrote: »

With the greatest of respect, you have completely missed the point. The imposition I was talking about was society in general, not a discussion forum!

So Manach posted....

Manach wrote: »

My short 2c: as a long term poster from the start, I’d be a tad disappoint that the hoped for community did not develop over the years. Instead of a more collegial atmosphere than exists in other fora it seems more fractious than it ideally should be.

And you responded with...

MrPudding wrote: »

It surprises you that things get fractious when one group tries to impose their (apparently) irrational views on a group that does now share those views? Really?

If you did in fact mean society in general it might have been prudent to mention that given your response is in the context of and a direct reply to a post specifically about this forum.

uck51js9zml2yt · 29-02-2016 04:48PM

As a Christian I wouldn't want to see this forum having a protected status. It kind of defeats the purpose of Christianity but there are elements who come on just to tell us they are atheists and how wrong we are. They just arent happy with spending a large proportion of their time debating the non existence of God in their own forum.(it always amuses me)

I'm always open to debate but being antagonistic for the sake of it serves no purpose.
That said, it has become predominantly an RC forum with said RC's belittling those of us who aren't at every turn.
I've just given up on the forum, even my local PP treats me with more respect at school board meetings than the RC's who are on this forum with an agenda.

There's just no point being on here.

54and56 · 29-02-2016 04:49PM

Swanner wrote: »

I don't disagree with you on the point but would you not see it as an odd response that despite this you choose to spend your time hanging out with Christians in a Christian forum ?

I'm not hanging out and I bet if there was a straw poll taken of all posters in this thread I may not be in the minority

Swanner wrote: »

Maybe the intent isn't to disrupt but forcing an atheist agenda on every religious discussion will inevitably have a disruptive effect as we see here time and time again.

The intent isn't to disrupt at all, it is to discuss and exchange ideas in a mutually respectful manner but not in a manner which elevates religion above any other topic of discussion.

Swanner wrote: »

Just live and let live surely...

100% agree with you and at the end of the day that's exactly what I would like to see i.e. religious people keeping their beliefs and faith to themselves and not forcing it on the rest of us but alas we haven't reached that point yet so it's important to engage in discussion to persuade people of religion to leave the rest of us alone and discussion forums are one of the best places to facilitate such discussions funnily enough

MrPudding · 29-02-2016 04:52PM

Swanner wrote: »

So Manach posted....

And you responded with...

If you did in fact mean society in general it might have been prudent to mention that given your response is in the context of and a direct reply to a post specifically about this forum.

I fear you may have missed the point again... The issues are in society in general, you know stuff like fighting to continue to be allowed to discriminate against the LGBT community, control of schools etc. So we have the religious trying to impose their particular views on society and then this translates into fractious discussions on related subjects on boards.

Was that really that difficult? I was really obvious to me as I typed it, so I apologise if the concept of what was in my head was more complicated than I thought and translated badly yo words.

MrP

ABC101 · 29-02-2016 04:53PM

Delirium wrote: »

The first thing I would suggest is to report such posts. While posters may have moments of condescendion, to be habitually condescending to other posters is only going to put people off posting here. So please do report such posts.

Could you give a link, (either here or by PM) to better understand what you mean?

can certainly see why that would put people off posting. The forum should be a level playing for posters. If you wish to expand a bit on what these imbalances are for posters, it would be appreciated (here or via PM).

Posting to wind up/ goad other posters isn't accepatable, so please report such posts.

I've not seen many (and certainly not to the level your post suggests) of that type of posts in the forum. Granted, I don't read every post made so there is some help required from posters by reporting such posts.

Just to be clear, that isn't a moderating issue but just the nature of discussion forums. There is nothing stopping any poster from asking for links to support the claim "religion holds educational development back".

Thanks for that post, it has been helpful to see where problems may lie in the forum.

Thanks for that.

I don't know what numeration / reward system is at work on Boards for Moderators, but sufficient to say I am glad I am not a Mod. Appears to be a thankless task, and I don't know why anybody would do it.

I'm not going to list or PM examples of condescending posts, I don't have the time and quiet frankly I am just too tired. In the future I will report abusive posts etc.

However getting back to the OP, the impression I get is that there are posters who have a pathological hatred of belief / those practicing belief.

There is not much one can do to help those posters. Posters who advocate belief tend to operate alone, or perhaps small groups of 2 or 3 in a thread. Posters who are anti belief tend to operate in entire regiments.

Believers appear to be outnumbered by at least 3:1 maybe even higher.

One well known poster who places a very high importance on knowing / evidence wrote a most arrogant & condescending post on another thread last year. Basically listing names of other posters who he had demolished / destroyed with his vastly superior logical arguments. Even boasting that the posters who he had demolished had since closed their boards accounts.

Apart from the arrogance, I thought it was hypocritical for a poster.... which places a very high importance on facts / proof etc to be claiming that he have run other posters out of town.... but without offering any proof at all.

Needless to say the post got lots of helpful votes.

WRT to abortion, believers are told that they should not be imposing their belief on other people who may choose to have an abortion etc.

However from the perspective of a believer... Abortion is the imposition of a death sentence on a unborn baby human.

I'd be quiet happy not to restrict abortion, as long as the opposition did not seek to implement abortion.

Its the hypocrisy of the debate, pro choice are allowed to impose a terminal sentence on a baby human, but believers are restricted in being allowed to defend a baby human.

I'm not seeking to introduce the topic of abortion into this thread, I am merely using it as an example.

I have not lost or diminished my faith one bit, but when one looks around the world and sees all the carnage going on, you don't really want to come onto a Christianity forum and expose yourself to more abuse / condescending comments.

Life is rough enough as it is without inviting / exposing yourself to more hostile commentary.

The Bishop Basher · 29-02-2016 04:54PM

MrPudding wrote: »

I fear you may have missed the point again... The issues are in society in general, you know stuff like fighting to continue to be allowed to discriminate against the LGBT community, control of schools etc. So we have the religious trying to impose their particular views on society and then this translates into fractious discussions on related subjects on boards.

Was that really that difficult? I was really obvious to me as I typed it, so I apologise if the concept of what was in my head was more complicated than I thought and translated badly yo words.

MrP

Condescension aside, I fully understood your point. Maybe you missed mine.

Speedwell · 29-02-2016 04:56PM

Oy, this thread. Makes me want to drag SoloDeoGloria and a couple mods out of here for a cuppa and let the rest of you marinate in SIWOTI syndrome.

Signing off... see you on other threads, somewhere in the universe.

This forum is non-functional

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