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Speedwell · 26-02-2016 09:21AM

Actually, "surfeit". Carry on

looksee · 26-02-2016 09:25AM

Speedwell wrote: »

Actually, "surfeit". Carry on

Thank you, amended.

Delirium · 26-02-2016 09:35AM

MOD NOTE

The Chieftain wrote: »

So lets see, 14 posts in a row, from those-who-cannot-be-named, having some sort of organized internal fun-fest. And hijacking this thread in the process. Earlier, one of the willfully blind asked for examples of what I complained of. Well here it is.

Less of that please. Attack the post, not the poster(s).

The Chieftain wrote: »

That logic makes a big assumption: that boards.ie reflects the country. Obviously not. And these specific board don't even reflect the generality of boards.ie The A&A forum has a surfet of young, militant, in your face, nihilistic secularists, who are happy to relieve their own frustrations by playing hunt the Christians over here.

Most Catholics/Christians are happy with their faith, and don't see the need to roam the internet in search of quarrels.

Less of that please. This thread is for feedback on this forum, not for attacking/commenting on posters in other forums.

Please try to keep to the topic.

Thanks for your attention.

54and56 · 26-02-2016 09:51AM

Why should any topic, whether religion or otherwise, be above criticism and ridicule? I don't understand why forum rules should try to impose restrictions which stifle objective discussion. Trolling and flaming etc are not acceptable in any forum including here.

It seems to me the only reason for ring fencing christianity from challenge and ridicule is supporters of the subject matter don't feel confident enough to defend criticism of it themselves which says a lot really.

No idea or subject, particularly one which has no basis in fact, should be given special protective status. This is supposed to be a free country not a fascist dictatorship. If you can't defend your ideas you shouldn't seek to hide behind makey uppey rules of engagement whose only purpose is to prevent discussion.......on a discussion forum

steamengine · 26-02-2016 10:18AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why should any topic, whether religion or otherwise, be above criticism and ridicule? I don't understand why forum rules should try to impose restrictions which stifle objective discussion. Trolling and flaming etc are not acceptable in any forum including here.

It seems to me the only reason for ring fencing christianity from challenge and ridicule is supporters of the subject matter don't feel confident enough to defend criticism of it themselves which says a lot really.

No idea or subject, particularly one which has no basis in fact, should be given special protective status. This is supposed to be a free country not a fascist dictatorship. If you can't defend your ideas you shouldn't seek to hide behind makey uppey rules of engagement whose only purpose is to prevent discussion.......on a discussion forum

If that's the case then paragraph (1) of the charter should be removed.

I don't know whether there are any cyclists amonst you, but try challenging cycling per se in any way whatsover on the cycling forum and you won't last very long.

So what type of a forum is this to be moving forward - continual clashes between believers and non-believers or a place primarily where Christians and would be Christians can debate and discuss topics of interest to them ?

Speedwell · 26-02-2016 10:21AM

steamengine wrote: »

So what type of a forum is this to be moving forward - continual clashes between believers and non-believers or a place primarily where Christians and would be Christians can debate and discuss topics of interest to them ?

Sure, let's also give people who believe the moon is made of green cheese a separate, locked-off forum where they can discuss what kind of cheese, without having to deal with people who point to moon rocks. I'm all for that.

steamengine · 26-02-2016 10:26AM

Speedwell wrote: »

Sure, let's also give people who believe the moon is made of green cheese a separate, locked-off forum where they can discuss what kind of cheese.

And those who don't can set up their own forum for 'people who don't believe the moon is made of green cheese a separate, locked-off forum where they can discuss what kind of cheese.'

Speedwell · 26-02-2016 10:29AM

steamengine wrote: »

And those who don't can set up their own forum for 'people who don't believe the moon is made of green cheese a separate, locked-off forum where they can discuss what kind of cheese.'

Did you really miss the point by that much? Let's try again.

Putting people on an island where they can hear only what they agree with is a bad thing.

steamengine · 26-02-2016 10:33AM

Speedwell wrote: »

Did you really miss the point by that much? Let's try again.

Putting people on an island where they can hear only what they agree with is a bad thing.[/B]

Ah right - your concern for our spiritual welfare is deeply touching :rolleyes:

Speedwell · 26-02-2016 10:35AM

steamengine wrote: »

Ah right - your concern for our spiritual welfare is deeply touching :rolleyes:

My concern with your relationship with reality should be pretty impressive, to be sure. Like I said in the second post of this thread, if faith can't stand up to scrutiny, then what kind of faith is it? Is God so small?

steamengine · 26-02-2016 10:41AM

Speedwell wrote: »

My concern with your relationship with reality should be pretty impressive, to be sure. Like I said in the second post of this thread, if faith can't stand up to scrutiny, then what kind of faith is it? Is God so small?

Do you bother to read the charter at all ? I'm personally not engaging in discussion outside the terms of the charter.

looksee · 26-02-2016 10:42AM

steamengine wrote: »

If that's the case then paragraph (1) of the charter should be removed.

I don't know whether there are any cyclists amonst you, but try challenging cycling per se in any way whatsover on the cycling forum and you won't last very long.

So what type of a forum is this to be moving forward - continual clashes between believers and non-believers or a place primarily where Christians and would be Christians can debate and discuss topics of interest to them ?

Absolutely agree with para 1. It is true that every thread would be overrun with people just making rude noises about the existence of god, rather than debating the issue. Just creating a base line for discussion - we accept that believers are entitled to believe - does not mean that their beliefs cannot be challenged on other levels though.

There are threads on here where believers can talk about their beliefs and no-one else goes near them. Solodeogloria is making noble attempts to discuss bible texts, the only person that has responded is The Chieftain,and he is just contradicting rather than trying to find anything positive.

Where Christian opinions impinge on everyone else (non-Christians) though, then people are going to comment, and since this is a discussion forum rather than an echo chamber, that is only reasonable.

Speedwell · 26-02-2016 10:42AM

steamengine wrote: »

Do you bother to read the charter at all ? I'm personally not engaging in discussion outside the terms of the charter.

I believe the person who raised those questions first, in antiquity, was one of the Christian fathers. They are questions that Christians should address if they plan to be interacting with non-Christians in the manner of Matthew 10:16.

Cabaal · 26-02-2016 11:12AM

steamengine wrote: »

If that's the case then paragraph (1) of the charter should be removed.

I don't know whether there are any cyclists amonst you, but try challenging cycling per se in any way whatsover on the cycling forum and you won't last very long.

So what type of a forum is this to be moving forward - continual clashes between believers and non-believers or a place primarily where Christians and would be Christians can debate and discuss topics of interest to them ?

Actually, if somebody creates a well constructive post/thread on the cycling forum they certainly won't be banned, if it encourages debate then it'll be allowed.

However if they do a drive by posting thats troll like (like most of the stuff they get thats anti-cycling) then they deserve what happens. The same currently happens in this forum and that is very much a good thing!

Expecting this forum to get special protection is wrong, the atheist forum doesn't get special protection and neither does the Islamic forum. So why should the Christian forum get some special status?

54and56 · 26-02-2016 11:37AM

Interesting response

steamengine wrote: »

If that's the case then paragraph (1) of the charter should be removed.

I don't know whether there are any cyclists amonst you, but try challenging cycling per se in any way whatsover on the cycling forum and you won't last very long.

As it happens I am one of those weekend cycling warriors (a MAMIL

) but I'm not a fundamentalist

The point you make is, I believe, counter to your argument. The reason you don't get very far in the cycling forum criticising cyclists (and many who break the rules of the road i.e. running red lights etc) deserve heavy criticism is that cyclists have counter arguments which they advance when challenged. They don't need to hide behind the apron strings of bizzarre forum rules which basically restrict discussion to patting each other on the back for bring great christians (cyclists etc etc - insert your topic of choice)

steamengine wrote: »

So what type of a forum is this to be moving forward - continual clashes between believers and non-believers or a place primarily where Christians and would be Christians can debate and discuss topics of interest to them ?

Perhaps so. Perhaps before being allowed to post in the forum you had to confirm you were a practising christian that would keep the discussion focused on interpretation of the bible and whatever else it is christians want to discuss. The problem with that however is twofold:-

1. Christians are never happy to just discussing their beliefs amongst themselves. They feel an obligation to pollute everyone elses airways with their makey uppey imaginary friend stuff which in turn makes them fair game for criticism and ridicule. If they just kept to themselves and the forum was just for confirmed practising christians all would be fine.

2. The forum would probably be a very lonely and sterile place with a few fundamentalist christians trying to outdo each other in their knowledge or practice of the faith.

I'd be quite happy for the christian forum to be only open to practising christians to post in providing non christians can still see the content as a reminder that such people and beliefs still exist and of course as a source of humour

Speedwell · 26-02-2016 11:41AM

The atheist forums don't insist on being an atheist-only vacuum, do they? If they don't, it's because they feel their views stand up to scrutiny. If they do, they should damn well cut it out.

Delirium · 26-02-2016 11:45AM

This forum isn't Christian-only, and I can't see it ever getting approval to move to that type of forum.

steamengine · 26-02-2016 11:54AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

1. Christians are never happy to just discussing their beliefs amongst themselves. They feel an obligation to pollute everyone elses airways with their makey uppey imaginary friend stuff which in turn makes them fair game for criticism and ridicule. If they just kept to themselves and the forum was just for confirmed practising christians all would be fine.

2. The forum would probably be a very lonely and sterile place with a few fundamentalist christians trying to outdo each other in their knowledge or practice of the faith.

I'd be quite happy for the christian forum to be only open to practising christians to post in providing non christians can still see the content as a reminder that such people and beliefs still exist and of course as a source of humour

With that sort of arrogant attitude why do you think any Christian would want to discuss anything with you ?

looksee · 26-02-2016 11:57AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Interesting response

As it happens I am one of those weekend cycling warriors (a MAMIL ) but I'm not a fundamentalist The point you make is, I believe, counter to your argument. The reason you don't get very far in the cycling forum criticising cyclists (and many who break the rules of the road i.e. running red lights etc) deserve heavy criticism is that cyclists have counter arguments which they advance when challenged. They don't need to hide behind the apron strings of bizzarre forum rules which basically restrict discussion to patting each other on the back for bring great christians (cyclists etc etc - insert your topic of choice)

Perhaps so. Perhaps before being allowed to post in the forum you had to confirm you were a practising christian that would keep the discussion focused on interpretation of the bible and whatever else it is christians want to discuss. The problem with that however is twofold:-

1. Christians are never happy to just discussing their beliefs amongst themselves. They feel an obligation to pollute everyone elses airways with their beliefs which in turn makes them fair game for discussion. If they just kept to themselves and the forum was just for confirmed practising christians all would be fine.

2. The forum would probably be a very lonely and sterile place with a few fundamentalist christians trying to outdo each other in their knowledge or practice of the faith.

I'd be quite happy for the christian forum to be only open to practising christians to post in providing non christians can still see the content as a reminder that such people and beliefs still exist and of course as a source of humour

Sorted that for you.

Oops, was sorting that when steamengine posted

Delirium · 26-02-2016 11:59AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Perhaps so. Perhaps before being allowed to post in the forum you had to confirm you were a practising christian that would keep the discussion focused on interpretation of the bible and whatever else it is christians want to discuss. The problem with that however is twofold:-

1. Christians are never happy to just discussing their beliefs amongst themselves. They feel an obligation to pollute everyone elses airways with their makey uppey imaginary friend stuff which in turn makes them fair game for criticism and ridicule. If they just kept to themselves and the forum was just for confirmed practising christians all would be fine.

MOD NOTE

Please remember you're in the Christianity forum and as such that sort of language is not appropriate. Please bear this in mind in future postings.

Thanks for your attention.

54and56 · 26-02-2016 12:03PM

steamengine wrote: »

With that sort of arrogant attitude why do you think any Christian would want to discuss anything with you ?

Judge and jury there steam, not very Christian of you.

My tongue in cheek references summarise my view on religion, any religion, and are not contributions to a genuine discussion on the subject. I used the terms here specifically in relation to the forum rules and to counter act what I see as the arrogance of a group of people who seek special protection because they aren't prepared to engage in discussion in a normal manner the same as any other topic is discussed and challenged etc.

Delirium · 26-02-2016 12:13PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Judge and jury there steam, not very Christian of you.

My tongue in cheek references summarise my view on religion, any religion, and are not contributions to a genuine discussion on the subject. I used the terms here specifically in relation to the forum rules and to counter act what I see as the arrogance of a group of people who seek special protection because they aren't prepared to engage in discussion in a normal manner the same as any other topic is discussed and challenged etc.

how is it unreasonable to expect posters to rise above goading Chrisitian posters with such terms as the one you used ("makey uppey imaginary friend stuff")?

It essentially amounts to trolling. Why should it be permitted in this forum?

Speedwell · 26-02-2016 12:20PM

Well, a word to address the original objection: Christian Internet chat forums that exclude atheists and other heathens do exist. Plenty of them. If that is the sort of atmosphere Chieftain finds more congenial, I can find him a few links.

solodeogloria · 26-02-2016 12:24PM

Good afternoon!

Dear, oh dear! It's a strange sight when the evangelical Christian agrees with most of what the atheists are posting.

The Christians do set the tone on this forum. We can make it the forum we want it to be. For me my hope and prayer is that the Christians can work towards two things here.

1. Building up the body of believers, the Christians on this forum in a more mature faith in Christ. To rejoice in Jesus together and to understand Him better.

2. Graciously and lovingly explain the hope that we have in Jesus to non-Christians. Respect and love them as people. Pray for them instead of seeing them as the dark evil people ruining the forum. There's enough blackness in my own heart before pointing at others. Jesus says to take the log out our own eyes before insisting on taking the speck out of others.

Why are we being so bitter to the atheists? I know I'm new but I have read this forum for some time. I'd like to welcome the atheists in here to give me a run for my money and I hope to get to know something of what they're like as people.

Anyone else want to put Jesus' teaching to practice here in how we post? Pray before posting. Think of the tone of what we say. We represent Him whether we like it or not.

Who's with me?

Much thanks in the grace of our Lord Jesus,
solodeogloria

54and56 · 26-02-2016 12:26PM

Delirium wrote: »

how is it unreasonable to expect posters to rise above goading Chrisitian posters with such terms as the one you used ("makey uppey imaginary friend stuff")?

It essentially amounts to trolling. Why should it be permitted in this forum?

I'm not challenging you Delirium and I won't use the term again in this forum but in the context of a discussion about bizarre forum rules, rather than a discussion about christianity in general or a specific issue within christianity, I didn't think being truthful about how I view religious believers was out of bounds. If it is/was I apologise. I have no intention to upset or goad people.

Delirium · 26-02-2016 12:31PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I'm not challenging you Delirium and I won't use the term again in this forum but in the context of a discussion about bizarre forum rules, rather than a discussion about christianity in general or a specific issue within christianity, I didn't think being truthful about how I view religious believers was out of bounds. If it is/was I apologise. I have no intention to upset or goad people.

It is if it's insulting to them/their beliefs. Plenty of other forums would take the same line.

54and56 · 26-02-2016 12:31PM

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good afternoon!

Dear, oh dear! It's a strange sight when the evangelical Christian agrees with most of what the atheists are posting.

The Christians do set the tone on this forum. We can make it the forum we want it to be. For me my hope and prayer is that the Christians can work towards two things here.

1. Building up the body of believers, the Christians on this forum in a more mature faith in Christ. To rejoice in Jesus together and to understand Him better.

2. Graciously and lovingly explain the hope that we have in Jesus to non-Christians. Respect and love them as people. Pray for them instead of seeing them as the dark evil people ruining the forum. There's enough blackness in my own heart before pointing at others. Jesus says to take the log out our own eyes before insisting on taking the speck out of others.

Why are we being so bitter to the atheists? I know I'm new but I have read this forum for some time. I'd like to welcome the atheists in here to give me a run for my money and I hope to get to know something of what they're like as people.

Anyone else want to put Jesus' teaching to practice here in how we post? Pray before posting. Think of the tone of what we say. We represent Him whether we like it or not.

Who's with me?

Much thanks in the grace of our Lord Jesus,
solodeogloria

Good post and you sound like the kind of person who has the confidence in your beliefs to positively respond to criticism rather than hide behind the unique rules which seem to apply to this forum.

One question which is more grammatical than religious. Why do you capitalise the word "him"? I understand why the name Jesus would be capitalised but not the word "him".

Speedwell · 26-02-2016 12:32PM

solodeogloria wrote: »

Dear, oh dear! It's a strange sight when the evangelical Christian agrees with most of what the atheists are posting.

It's going to get even stranger. I'm going to thank you for posting this. You seem very sincere, and along with sincerity comes a willingness to argue in good faith and tolerance. I would be happy to engage with you in the same sincerity, good faith, and tolerance. As someone who has been where you are, however, I cannot always guarantee that what I say will be comfortable or pleasant, but I can promise to not make it more unpleasant by treating you like a child or a liar. If you'd like to have a discussion with me, publicly or privately, I'd like to invite you to do so.

looksee · 26-02-2016 12:36PM

I am with Speedwell on this. I do not wish to get into discussion on biblical texts (though I did a good deal of it in my youth) but on general topics I would be more than happy to contribute. And I undertake to try to respond to courtesy and sincerity with the same.

solodeogloria · 26-02-2016 12:38PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Good post and you sound like the kind of person who has the confidence in your beliefs to positively respond to criticism rather than hide behind the unique rules which seem to apply to this forum.

One question which is more grammatical than religious. Why do you capitalise the word "him"? I understand why the name Jesus would be capitalised but not the word "him".

Good afternoon!

Thank you for your question it's a good one.

In lots of English literature particularly when Christianity was more prevalent people capitalised Him to give God the rightful honour He deserves. Or indeed Jesus as God's Son.

I appreciate others mightn't be willing to do the same and even English Bibles don't. It's a matter of preference. I love and respect God in a way I respect nothing or nobody else. It's a way of showing that.

Does that make sense?

I'll be back online later God willing.

Much thanks in Christ Jesus,
solodeogloria

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