Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

robopaddy2 · 21-02-2016 09:41PM

Not condoning Coughlans theatrics but have been very impressed with him so far in the league. He has definetly developed a mean streak this year you saw it in the KK game constantly getting in the face of Colin Fennelly, following him everywhere eventually Fennelly was frustrated to the point he ended up getting himself sent off. The on Saturday night he was much more of a presence in the full backline, putting himself about and getting in his opppnents faces. He made a professional foul I think on Pa Horgan at one stage as he was bearing down on goal and ended up conceding the free. The kind of ruthlessness that makes successful teams as weve seen with Kk over the years. Not saying he is the complete full back or anything like it but hes definetly manning that position with a lot more presence. Hes obviously been told that you dont make it as a fullback being mr nice and thats the best advice he needed

deiseach · 22-02-2016 01:41PM

I am outraged by Barry Coughlan's behaviour. Outraged that none of his teammates got one of them hoors sent off in this manner before!

JesusRef · 22-02-2016 03:24PM

deiseach wrote: »

I am outraged by Barry Coughlan's behaviour. Outraged that none of his teammates got one of them hoors sent off in

How often in the past did we lick our wounds after a defeat and utter after a sending off "cork were cute and we were stupid enough to get caught" about time it's going back the other way

mountgomery burns · 22-02-2016 04:09PM

JesusRef wrote: »

How often in the past did we lick our wounds after a defeat and utter after a sending off "cork were cute and we were stupid enough to get caught" about time it's going back the other way

Not that often in my memory to be honest

hans aus dtschl · 22-02-2016 04:13PM

Any Waterford lads on here any bit concerned at the lack of shape after Shanahan's sending off?

Left a poor Cork side back into it a bit...or are you putting it down to a combination of "job already done" and "lack of focus so early in the year" at this point?

JesusRef · 22-02-2016 05:13PM

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Any Waterford lads on here any bit concerned at the lack of shape after Shanahan's sending off?

Left a poor Cork side back into it a bit...or are you putting it down to a combination of "job already done" and "lack of focus so early in the year" at this point?

I think that we started to run out of legs after the Killkenny game the week before and the huge effort and work rate we should for the 1st 55 minutes, also Shane Bennett going off was a factor as it looks like no one else can play the role he can for us.

I would be concerned about Maurice bad start on the frees and the stupid sending off, shows he has a bit to go to regain last year's form

DiscoStew · 22-02-2016 05:32PM

JesusRef wrote: »

I think that we started to run out of legs after the Killkenny game the week before and the huge effort and work rate we should for the 1st 55 minutes, also Shane Bennett going off was a factor as it looks like no one else can play the role he can for us.

I would be concerned about Maurice bad start on the frees and the stupid sending off, shows he has a bit to go to regain last year's form

Shane Bennett was always unlikely to play the full game as he played in a freshers final which went to extra time midweek.

tomwaterford · 22-02-2016 07:16PM

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Any Waterford lads on here any bit concerned at the lack of shape after Shanahan's sending off?

Left a poor Cork side back into it a bit...or are you putting it down to a combination of "job already done" and "lack of focus so early in the year" at this point?

I did think they were starting to slip before shanahan got sent off

Which btw was pure pointless sending off....actually can't wait for next match

robopaddy2 · 22-02-2016 11:42PM

Fantastic to have 2 wins out of 2. Beating the cats and then Cork at home is never something to be sneezed at. Win one of our last 3 games and we guarantee survival and a quarter final place. Job done.

In the broader scheme of things, 2 games in, what appears to have changed from last year? Literally nothing. Same team, same system, same subs. We ultimately fell short in the 2 big tests last year against Tipp and KK and it was obvious that this system will only get us so far. Maybe once survival in the league is guaranteed we might see a bit more of a bolder adventurous approach from management, but I'm not holding my breath. De Burca will come back into it, and strengthen our position even more so out around half back / middle of the field as he will take up the sweeper role and we will probably see Gleeson roam forward even more so. But with an absent full forward line we depend on pot-shots from out the field for scores, many of which inevitably are going to go wide. Last year everything Maurice touched seemed to go over the bar. He was in the zone but can't depend on the same again this year. Also can't expect the world from Mahony either after the injury he's had. I think you'll see him play a bit-part role and it could be 2017 before we see him back at full tilt.
Looking at KK on Sunday how the rung the changes after their defeat to us and the lads that came in looked top class. They dropped Kieran Joyce and the centre back that came in did very well, then Kelly and Maher came in looking like they had been there for years. You often find out so much more about yourself after losing a game. Instead of keeping this unbeaten run going I'm interested to see that the manager is more than just a one-trick pony and whatever happens in the league, we are ready to take it to a new level in the championship.

comeraghs · 23-02-2016 12:01AM

Rebel norrie wrote: »

FFS he struck a player off de ball. Gleeson should also have seen red for his assault on Walsh.

tomwaterford · 23-02-2016 12:09AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Fantastic to have 2 wins out of 2. Beating the cats and then Cork at home is never something to be sneezed at. Win one of our last 3 games and we guarantee survival and a quarter final place. Job done.

In the broader scheme of things, 2 games in, what appears to have changed from last year? Literally nothing. Same team, same system, same subs. We ultimately fell short in the 2 big tests last year against Tipp and KK and it was obvious that this system will only get us so far. Maybe once survival in the league is guaranteed we might see a bit more of a bolder adventurous approach from management, but I'm not holding my breath. De Burca will come back into it, and strengthen our position even more so out around half back / middle of the field as he will take up the sweeper role and we will probably see Gleeson roam forward even more so. But with an absent full forward line we depend on pot-shots from out the field for scores, many of which inevitably are going to go wide. Last year everything Maurice touched seemed to go over the bar. He was in the zone but can't depend on the same again this year. Also can't expect the world from Mahony either after the injury he's had. I think you'll see him play a bit-part role and it could be 2017 before we see him back at full tilt.
Looking at KK on Sunday how the rung the changes after their defeat to us and the lads that came in looked top class. They dropped Kieran Joyce and the centre back that came in did very well, then Kelly and Maher came in looking like they had been there for years. You often find out so much more about yourself after losing a game. Instead of keeping this unbeaten run going I'm interested to see that the manager is more than just a one-trick pony and whatever happens in the league, we are ready to take it to a new level in the championship.

Their is one change (how much difference it'll make though)is they are a lot stronger on the ball and in the air

When last year you'd see Likes of dunford having to go around lads/run into corners...now he appears to have at least a 50/50 chance in shoulder/physical stakes (admittedly early in year)...very noticeable againest kk esp

Though it was slightly annoying seeing them concede short puck outs to cork...will a better team make better advantage of these???

comeraghs · 23-02-2016 12:09AM

No need for us Waterford supporters to get excited, We only beat Kilkenny because the grass was too long & the seats in the stand weren't comfortable enough & Kilkenny hadn't done any training & without the ref giving us all the frees & not having the sense to send off at least 5 Waterford players we wouldn't have beaten Cork!

TheScoringGoal · 23-02-2016 12:21AM

The system has changed. It may be subtle but it has changed.

1 The role of Austin Gleeson. Last year he was designated to mark a player (until the return of Dara Fives) This year he has much more freedom to drive forward. However what gets missed in a lot of the lazy journalism about Waterford is any of the half backs have licence to attack. Indeed Shane Fives has often found himself in advanced positions and scored.

2 An extra man in the full forward line. Not as obvious against cork but definitely against Kilkenny. Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran have alternated in this role, which is interesting as both bring different qualities to it. I have a feeling this wasn't used as much against cork as there may have been a feeling if Maurice was allowed inside one on one or even two on one that he'd win ball. I'd expect it to be two up top more often.

3 The role of Colin Dunford. He's playing as a designated midfielder as opposed to an extra man back there. Kevin Moran is now a designated half back. I would have felt Dunford and Barron too light a pairing but Barron is currently the form midfielder in the country and Dunford was exceptional until he tired against cork.

4 The route one option. This was a non runner last year and hopeless the previous. However it has been used to positive effect in the right situation this year. From an attacking perspective it would seem players now are trusted to play "heads up" hurling. If that means the long ball is on, there's space to run into or a short pass they are trusted to make the right decision.

KevIRL · 23-02-2016 06:32AM

5. Patrick Curran

Cake Man · 23-02-2016 08:30AM

Lads is there anywhere to watch highlights online of the game? Had to make do with listening on WLR the weekend.

HillFarmer · 23-02-2016 08:50AM

Cake Man wrote: »

Lads is there anywhere to watch highlights online of the game? Had to make do with listening on WLR the weekend.

TG4 has highlights on their player.

If you abroad like em you can use Hola to watch it.

deiseach · 23-02-2016 09:58AM

Cake Man wrote: »

Lads is there anywhere to watch highlights online of the game? Had to make do with listening on WLR the weekend.

I would have opened a vein had I listened to either match on WLR. Their GAA coverage is pretty good in general. You certainly can't question their enthusiasm. But the commentary is relentlessly apocalyptic. Every one of those wides against Kilkenny would have been portrayed as worse than a red card.

hans aus dtschl · 23-02-2016 10:29AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

I did think they were starting to slip before shanahan got sent off

Which btw was pure pointless sending off....actually can't wait for next match

Yeah it was right in front of me and I wasn't expecting a red. I wouldn't be overly concerned: think the ref was in a bit of a bind at that point after the Walsh incident and point for Waterford, so he was going to come down hard on the next Waterford lad that so much as sneezed. Cadogan at the other end was by all accounts a soft red also.

PTH2009 · 23-02-2016 02:27PM

deiseach wrote: »

I would have opened a vein had I listened to either match on WLR. Their GAA coverage is pretty good in general. You certainly can't question their enthusiasm. But the commentary is relentlessly apocalyptic. Every one of those wides against Kilkenny would have been portrayed as worse than a red card.

a fair bit of nonsense is said on wlr eg storys about players grandmothers, what the players eat for breakfast etc. RTE is the way to go

DiscoStew · 23-02-2016 10:39PM

How do people see the system evolving when Tadhg de Burca returns? We've been playing with a half back line of Moran D Fives and Ph Mahony as far as I can make out with Gleeson playing the free role around midfield almost but dropping back around centre back to leave D Fives sweep at times too. Does Moran move up when de Burca comes back? Does Moran go into the Gleeson role and Fives out to wing back and Gleeson go further forward? It will be intriguing to see how they approach that especially with it going well currently, Dunford doing well as an auxiliary midfielder and Gleeson playing free.

robopaddy2 · 24-02-2016 12:53AM

deiseach wrote: »

I would have opened a vein had I listened to either match on WLR. Their GAA coverage is pretty good in general. You certainly can't question their enthusiasm. But the commentary is relentlessly apocalyptic. Every one of those wides against Kilkenny would have been portrayed as worse than a red card.

Theres a lot worse out there in regards to local radio commentary. Kieran O'Connor isn't the worst. Take him or leave him he's a bit of an institution at this stage.

Its the co-commentators that give me the s***s. Whether its Flannery, Frampton or Shiner Ahearne. Each one of them as bland and wooden as the other, all seem to be afraid to say anything controversial and more interested in showing us that theyre on a first name basis with all the players. Would like to see someone like a Ken or Mullane with a bit of cut and thrust in the commentary box to try and spice it up.

PTH2009 · 24-02-2016 12:57AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Theres a lot worse out there in regards to local radio commentary. Kieran O'Connor isn't the worst. Take him or leave him he's a bit of an institution at this stage.

Its the co-commentators that give me the s***s. Whether its Flannery, Frampton or Shiner Ahearne. Each one of them as bland and wooden as the other, all seem to be afraid to say anything controversial and more interested in showing us that theyre on a first name basis with all the players. Would like to see someone like a Ken or Mullane with a bit of cut and thrust in the commentary box to try and spice it up.

if we win the big one in september kieran o connor will have a stroke lol.

Cake Man · 24-02-2016 01:01AM

Yeah it'll be very interesting to see what way we set up and who starts. Tadgh will have to come back in with somebody making way but it's a difficult call as so many are playing well and you could make a case for anyone really.

With the next game v Tipp, the team kind of picks itself I think. Assuming Tadgh is fit, he will slot straight back in as per what DiscoStew said above with Tadgh at 6, Moran to midfield and Aussie (named in the forwards but operating free around the middle third) and Dunford in around that area too.

With Maurice being unavailable anyway, it kind of works out well enough in terms of accommodating Tadgh but it'll be interesting as without MS we don't really have a target man up there and would be reliant of a 2 man FF line of maybe Curran and Shane Bennett to win ball. Against a tight enough Tipp defence, that will be difficult so it could be a case of more working the ball forward and/or long range shooting. Any ball into the FF line would need to be very accurate to give the lads in there any hope.

For the record, I like Kieran O'Connor. When you're not living at home you become grateful for WLR to be covering games (senior, U21, minor - the more the better) as relying on Twitter and this page for updates can be painful!

PTH2009 · 24-02-2016 07:39PM

I think we are to struggle a bit in the tipp game with Maurice out. We have no real big tall forward. It's going to be interesting

robopaddy2 · 24-02-2016 11:40PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

I think we are to struggle a bit in the tipp game with Maurice out. We have no real big tall forward. It's going to be interesting

it could be a bit of blessing in disguise. We might learn a little more about ourselves and it will force management to change it around a bit. A couple other lads might get the chance to step up aswell. Its all very structured and one dimensional at the moment. I think management are hell-bent on retaining division 1 survival which is very important but theres a bigger picture which is preparing for the year ahead

tomwaterford · 24-02-2016 11:48PM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

it could be a bit of blessing in disguise. We might learn a little more about ourselves and it will force management to change it around a bit. A couple other lads might get the chance to step up aswell. Its all very structured and one dimensional at the moment. I think management are hell-bent on retaining division 1 survival which is very important but theres a bigger picture which is preparing for the year ahead

Yes....what will happen if it's the middle of the summer and shanahan has to go off injured??

Though a two man full forward line of Shane Bennett and paddy curren while Young is exciting prospect

Cake Man · 25-02-2016 12:18AM

I wonder could Tom Devine or Shane Roche (is it him or Colm who is a forward and played in the half forwards in the AI minor 2013?) step in at full forward as a physical presence?

Is it confirmed Tadgh de Burca will be fit for Tipp? Because if he will be, the above is probably not really an option.

Dick phelan · 25-02-2016 12:53AM

Feel sorry for whoever is dropped for TDB and Mahony nobody really deserves to loose their place but can't see TDB or Mahony not starting, For frees alone Mahony is a must and De Burca was probably along with Maurice the standout player for us last year. As noted above wouldn't mind seeing Devine or Roche playing against Tipp, Could do with someone with a bit of size and physical presence up front with Maurice out. Nice knowing the Tipp game is not a must win, after the last day Tipp need the points far more then us, especially with them being at home.

Dick phelan · 25-02-2016 12:55AM

Curran has been great in the first two matches, fell for him if he is dropped come Championship. On another note is it just me or has Dunfords shooting improved? Noticed he seems to be taking his points better so far this year compared with last year.

cul beag · 25-02-2016 02:08AM

Shanahan doesn't seem himself and doesn't seem to be firing fully yet either. Maybe the time away might help him regroup.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1