Singer Kesha Rape claim

ghostdancer · 22-02-2016 02:53PM

fullstop wrote: »

Not always. There have been cases where the accusation has been found to be completely made up. Even the case the other day of the actress in London who accused a man in the train station of sexual assault. There was a video of him and all he did was walk past her and her identity was protected, while he had his name dragged through the mud. Why?

sure, i know it does happen, just that there are plenty of cases where being found not guilty doesn't necessarily mean that the accuser made a false claim.
ideally if it was a false claim they would take action against the person that made it, however I think many who have been falsely accused would probably prefer to just have the whole thing over and done with.

eviltwin · 22-02-2016 03:06PM

fullstop wrote: »

Not always. There have been cases where the accusation has been found to be completely made up. Even the case the other day of the actress in London who accused a man in the train station of sexual assault. There was a video of him and all he did was walk past her and her identity was protected, while he had his name dragged through the mud. Why?

He went to the papers himself after the investigation was dropped. No one knew about it until that point but I get what you are saying . Anyone accused of a crime shouldn't be named until convicted.

anvilfour · 22-02-2016 03:20PM

It's very easy to judge until you or someone you care about is the victim of a false accusation!

beach_walker · 22-02-2016 03:28PM

I've never heard of him and just know her from that one song a few years back. But my Facebook feed has told me all, the social media court has decided on his absolute guilt and equally nominated Taylor Swift for a Nobel prize.

the groutch · 22-02-2016 03:33PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

people generally aren't found innocent though, they're found not guilty, and that may be due to lack of evidence, which doesn't make the claim false.

so a court of law isn't good enough for you?
what do you want? a time machine to go back and show you?

Elemonator · 22-02-2016 03:36PM

I'm big into my music scene and I've actually heard similar tales of this "Doctor Luke". It's an oxymoron if there ever was one.

ghostdancer · 22-02-2016 04:10PM

the groutch wrote: »

so a court of law isn't good enough for you?
what do you want? a time machine to go back and show you?

i think you've completely missed the point, a court of law doesn't make a judgement of innocence. it makes a judgement of guilty or not guilty of charges.

Ri_Nollaig · 22-02-2016 04:23PM

the groutch wrote: »

so a court of law isn't good enough for you?
what do you want? a time machine to go back and show you?

He is just pointing out the language used in court. "Innocent" and "not guilty" are not synonyms. It means you are either guilt or not guilt based on the evidence present at the time. It can mean there wasn't enough proof or it can mean you are completely 100% innocent. By right the prosecution should only push cases they believe they can win and are sure the accused is guilty, but well, there is plenty of examples of that not happening.

I know public trails are a key part of democracies but I do believe when it comes to any sexual related crimes [and god help if you the victim is underage], that there is an argument for both parties to remain anonymous until the a guilt verdict is achieved. If they are proven guilty by all means plaster their name over any newspaper but until then I fail to see how they can get a fair trail and a normal life if they are innocent and later acquitted.

Sir Osis of Liver. · 22-02-2016 04:36PM

This is worth a read.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/kesha-forced-to-work-with-dr-luke-despite-allegations-of-sexual-abuse/

BattleCorp · 22-02-2016 04:38PM

I'm from a small town in rural Ireland. If I was publicaly accused of rape, I'd be smeared for life.

Even if it was proved that I didn't do it, the mud still sticks.

It's an awkward situation, and I have the utmost sympathy for rape victims, but people have the right to their good name too.

Personally I think that people shouldn't be named unless found guilty in a court of law.

ghostdancer · 22-02-2016 05:00PM

statement from Dr. Luke’s attorney Christine Lepara today:

The New York County Supreme Court on Friday found that Kesha is already “free” to record and release music without working with Dr. Luke as a producer if she doesn’t want to. Any claim that she isn’t “free” is a myth. The sound decision Friday by the Court in denying Kesha’s motion for an injunction made it clear Kesha’s allegations of purported abuse were unconvincing and that she had no basis to void record contracts and copyrights. Dr. Luke and his companies invested in Kesha’s success through their contributions, Sony Music has already spent over $11 million promoting Kesha, and Sony Music and its label Kemosabe Records are committed to continuing to promote her work.

More significantly, the Court also noted multiple times that her vague abuse allegations were devoid of factual detail, and that there was no evidence, whether from doctors or anyone else, to support them.

Tellingly, Kesha never reported any purported abuse or rape to any law enforcement authority, or even to Sony Music, and further swore under oath in another matter, while accompanied by her team of lawyers, that it never occurred. The goal of Kesha’s counsel throughout has been to obtain a more lucrative contract through a shameless campaign of outrageous claims they will never stand behind in a court of law.

As Dr. Luke has said repeatedly, the allegations against him are outright lies that have been advanced to extort a contract renegotiation and money. Kesha and her counsel have cavalierly subjected Dr. Luke and his family to trial by Twitter, using a vicious smear campaign to ruin his reputation for financial gain while failing to support their claims. Kesha to date has never verified the allegations in this case -even when given the opportunity in her affidavit. Nor has she ever offered a credible explanation as to why she would have signed a second recording agreement, recorded two albums and an EP and signed a publishing deal with Dr. Luke after allegedly being sexually abused. It will further be shown that the incidents alleged never happened.

22-02-2016 05:52PM

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

This is worth a read.

http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/kesha-forced-to-work-with-dr-luke-despite-allegations-of-sexual-abuse/

yeah I agree, I saw a list of former Disney kids who've either committed suicide or fukt themselves up due to being mishandled, manhandled and all in between!

running round like clowns wearing pentagrams and throwing up satan horns signs etc, clowns! do they think it's the dark ages or what...

hollyweird chews up kids and spits them out. I wouldn't be going on a conspiracy rant but c'mon, that whole lifestyle is not conducive to a healthy mind.

sure wasn't shirly temple and judy garland both getting the same at one stage, the latter to a larger degree. and how do the film stars react??

Ohhh that's the cost of his genius!! ahem woody allen and roman Polanski...
two epic paedos who are supported by movie stars!!!

He's nuts and all but I'd rather a gay tom cruise believing in magic aliens than all that blatant dark **** going on.

sbsquarepants · 22-02-2016 06:00PM

rusty cole wrote: »

yeah I agree, I saw a list of former Disney kids who's either committed suicide or fukt themselves up due to being mishandled, manhandled and all in between!

running round like clowns wearing pentagrams and throwing up satan horns signs etc, clowns! do they think it's the dark ages or what...

hollyweird chews up kids and spits them out. I wouldn't be going on a conspiracy rant c'mon, that whole lifestyle is not conducive to a healthy mind.

sure wasn't shirly temple and judy garland both getting the same at one stage, the latter to a larger degree. and what how do the film stars react??

Ohhh that;s the cost of his genius!! ahem woody allen and roman Polanski...
two epic paedos who are supported by movie stars!!!

He's nuts and all but I'd rather a gay tom cruise believing in magic aliens than all that blatant dark **** going on.

A heeeeeyurrrr, leave Woody alone!
Polanski was a different kettle of fish - he's a pure scumbag, a talented scumbag but still a scumbag.

Carlos Orange · 22-02-2016 06:06PM

eviltwin wrote: »

He went to the papers himself after the investigation was dropped. No one knew about it until that point but I get what you are saying . Anyone accused of a crime shouldn't be named until convicted.

He went to the press after he was found not guilty in court. I have never heard of people on trial having their identity protected so I would be surprised if he was.

retro:electro · 22-02-2016 06:18PM

Sony have prepaid kesha for her next seven albums have told kesha that she can get out of her contract if she pays back the money they've prepaid her. She said no. I hope the allegations aren't true, but most of this doesn't add up. It sounds like she just wants out of the contract without incurring any penalty so she can sign a more lucrative deal elsewhere.

BattleCorp · 22-02-2016 06:21PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

A heeeeeyurrrr, leave Woody alone!
Polanski was a different kettle of fish - he's a pure scumbag, a talented scumbag but still a scumbag.

Em, you shouldn't really be shagging and have nudie pics of a girl that you are raising as your own.

I'm not quite willing to remove Woody from the scumbag category.

Wibbs · 22-02-2016 06:47PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Em, you shouldn't really be shagging and have nudie pics of a girl that you are raising as your own.

I'm not quite willing to remove Woody from the scumbag category.

+1. IMHO woody got far more of a pass for his well dodgy antics because A) he couldn't be anymore of a Hollywood liberal and

his films are cheap to make but keep raking in the cash.

desertcircus · 22-02-2016 07:02PM

Nothing quite like a rape case to bring out the worst in Boards. Just thoroughly depressing. Default assumption that the woman is lying, ascribing the worst possible motivations to her actions, and a general attitude that the whole system is just really unfair on men.

Next time you wonder why so many women don't report rape, take a look at some of the comments on this thread.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 22-02-2016 07:09PM

anna080 wrote: »

Sony have prepaid kesha for her next seven albums have told kesha that she can get out of her contract if she pays back the money they've prepaid her. She said no. I hope the allegations aren't true, but most of this doesn't add up. It sounds like she just wants out of the contract without incurring any penalty so she can sign a more lucrative deal elsewhere.

I don't know how her lawyers let her sign such a contract. She really is stuck.

ceadaoin. · 22-02-2016 07:19PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

If Kesha was abused/raped:-

I can see why she didn't go to the police early on in her career? Some people put up with unacceptable behaviour if they are in a vulnerable position (such as someone starting out in the music business).

That said, she is no longer in a vulnerable position. Why has she still not gone to the police regarding this claim?

I think she had a drug and/or drink problem for a while. It's easy to numb yourself that way. I wonder if her going to rehab and getting sober was a catalyst for her wanting out.

ghostdancer wrote: »

complete nonsense.

You're right, it's usually only when it's women making the claims that their character and truthfulness is questioned in such a way, whatever the alleged crime might be.

ahnowbrowncow · 22-02-2016 07:22PM

bluewolf wrote: »

My thoughts as well - and then people are surprised when a whole parish lines up to sympathise and shake hands with a convicted rapist

What's that got to do with this thread? No one has been convicted of rape, there's no evidence of rape and she previously swore under oath that she wasn't raped.

We're not allowed to doubt it? Guilty until proven innocent is it?

22-02-2016 07:26PM

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

What's that got to do with this thread? No one has been convicted of rape

I didn't say they had, and I was clearly continuing from another post.

Forget it so

recylingbin · 22-02-2016 07:47PM

Who is kesha rape?

El Burro Juicioso · 22-02-2016 07:50PM

thattequilagirl wrote: »

"When I was 17, someone stole my handbag with all my money in it." "That's terrible."

"When I was 17, I got beaten up after a night out." "That's awful!"

"When I was 17, my uncle raped me." "Why didn't you report it? Why are you still in contact with him? What proof have you got?"

The last question is not in anyway comparable.
"When I was 17, my uncle stole my handbag with all my money in it." "That's terrible. Why didn't you report it? Why are you still in contact with him? What proof have you got?"

When I was 17, I got beaten up by my uncle after a night out." "That's awful!Why didn't you report it? Why are you still in contact with him? What proof have you got?"

"When I was 17, my uncle raped me." "That's terrible! Why didn't you report it? Why are you still in contact with him? What proof have you got?"

Now they are aligned a bit better, and the reaction fits. And as for the actual current circumstances, with the knowledge that we know.

"When I was 17, my rich uncle raped me. I said before in front of everyone he didn't, but now I'm saying he did. Other people say so too."
What do you think is a reasonable response to this? Similar to the first ones?

ceadaoin. wrote: »

You're right, it's usually only when it's women making the claims that their character and truthfulness is questioned in such a way, whatever the alleged crime might be.

After swearing an oath in court that it didn't happen? Now, I don't know if the man did it or not. Clearly the industry is a cesspit and I feel bad for anyone taken advantage within it. However, not critically analysing the facts is going to get us nowhere. Not guilty does not mean innocent, but also accused does not mean probably guilty. Therefore everyone's claims should be questioned.

As an earlier poster said, this should be handled in private so as not to ruin reputations and then release the information if it is found to be true, but the US sadly does the exact opposite of this.

ceadaoin. · 22-02-2016 08:12PM

El Burro Juicioso wrote: »

After swearing an oath in court that it didn't happen? Now, I don't know if the man did it or not. Clearly the industry is a cesspit and I feel bad for anyone taken advantage within it. However, not critically analysing the facts is going to get us nowhere. Not guilty does not mean innocent, but also accused does not mean probably guilty. Therefore everyone's claims should be questioned.

As an earlier poster said, this should be handled in private so as not to ruin reputations and then release the information if it is found to be true, but the US sadly does the exact opposite of this.

I was more making a general comment on people's reactions to rape claims. In this thread we had people straight away saying she was making it up and another insinuating that the way she dresses has something to do with it. Another thread recently had someone saying there should be a time limit for victims to come forward so that rapists lives arent ruined and suggesting that people are being accused simply for brushing against someone or some such nonsense.

I'm not saying that Kesha is definitely telling the truth but some people have a stance of automatically disbelieving rape claims, and from women in particular. That is wrong and leads to a climate where genuine victims are scared to come forward.

Just because someone stayed in contact with their abuser doesn't mean they weren't abused. Just because someone denied being abused at an earlier time, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

For what it's worth she claimed she was threatened into lying

"Luke's latest legal maneuver comes as no surprise," Geragos wrote. "t’s a desperate Hail Mary and a pathetic attempt to once again blame his victim. As detailed in our complaint, Luke walked Kesha down the beach and threatened to destroy Kesha's life and the lives of her family if she didn't cover up his sexual assaults in a 2011 deposition. He is now following through on his threats and grasping at straws to try and twist Kesha’s coerced statements.

You're right though, this should all be done in private.

tritium · 22-02-2016 08:15PM

desertcircus wrote: »

Nothing quite like a rape case to bring out the worst in Boards. Just thoroughly depressing. Default assumption that the woman is lying, ascribing the worst possible motivations to her actions, and a general attitude that the whole system is just really unfair on men.

Next time you wonder why so many women don't report rape, take a look at some of the comments on this thread.

Given the evidence so far, including previous sworn testimony from kesha that this hadn't happened, I don't think it's unreasonable to critically assess the narrattive here. Actually, the default position of some posters to assume the mans guilt because, well, he's a man, is probably more disturbing in this instance. El Burro captured it pretty well a few posts back, accused does not mean probably guilty (tbh this stuff should probably be anonymous until decided)

Following on from the AgSoc 200 nonsense its showing up a fairly crude misandry that goes with certain commentators.

But yeah, its just the men bitching about their privelige......

Wibbs · 22-02-2016 09:42PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I didn't say they had, and I was clearly continuing from another post.

Forget it so

You're rightfully outraged that forty odd men and women lined up to shake that prick's hand and the raped woman was tried by the local court of public, but you're apparently fine with the trial by the court of public opinion in another case? How does one square that particular circle?

As I said previously the law has to operate by evidence and it seems in this case there is none. A society simply can't run along the lines of believe all those who claim to be victims and damn the accused. That's mob rule. When this hits social media it's scary levels of mob rule. Earlier it was noted that "people tend to automatically believe someone who claims to be a victim of any crime other than rape". Let's say that's true, would people automatically agree with convictions(never mind going public) with one witness and no other evidence, that the accusation is enough? I doubt it.

What needs more attention and support is for men and women to have more education and avenues to report and build a case against abusers and rapists and put them away for life. Make our society more conducive for victims to report this as early as possible and build solid cases against these scumbags.

22-02-2016 09:45PM

Wibbs wrote: »

What needs more attention and support is for men and women to have more education and avenues to report and build a case against abusers and rapists and put them away for life.

That's the last thing that should happen imo.

It means a lot of rape victims will be murder/rape victims instead. Dead victims can't talk. You can't have the same sentence for rape as for murder.

Ice Maiden · 22-02-2016 09:53PM

tritium wrote: »

Given the evidence so far, including previous sworn testimony from kesha that this hadn't happened, I don't think it's unreasonable to critically assess the narrattive here. Actually, the default position of some posters to assume the mans guilt because, well, he's a man, is probably more disturbing in this instance. El Burro captured it pretty well a few posts back, accused does not mean probably guilty (tbh this stuff should probably be anonymous until decided)

Following on from the AgSoc 200 nonsense its showing up a fairly crude misandry that goes with certain commentators.

But yeah, its just the men bitching about their privelige......

Ah I don't know is anyone presuming he's guilty just because he's a man?

22-02-2016 09:53PM

Wibbs wrote: »

but you're apparently fine with the trial by the court of public opinion in another case? .

That must be why I thanked posts in support of anonymity in the case of accusations until a verdict is reached yeah

Singer Kesha Rape claim

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