CCTV cameras in polling stations.

SafeSurfer · 22-02-2016 11:44AM #1

If our election is by secret ballot, an important tenet of our democracy. Why are CCTV cameras allowed both inside and outside polling booths?

looksee · 22-02-2016 11:48AM

There is a world of difference between 'inside a polling station' and 'inside a polling booth'. Most polling stations are inside schools, there are not usually cameras in classrooms?

Sonics2k · 22-02-2016 11:50AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If our election is by secret ballot, an important tenet of our democracy. Why are CCTV cameras allowed both inside and outside polling booths?

The actual vote is secret, as in they do not record who is actually voting for who. Having cameras in the main room is really just for security.

Duiske · 22-02-2016 11:55AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Why are CCTV cameras allowed both inside and outside polling booths?

In North Korea its just the way these things are done. In Ireland, it doesn't happen.

SafeSurfer · 22-02-2016 11:57AM

Duiske wrote: »

In North Korea its just the way these things are done. In Ireland, it doesn't happen.

If you dont believe me have a look on Friday. I vote in my local school and there are CCTV cameras both inside and outside the school, including in the room where voting actually takes place.

Rubberchikken · 22-02-2016 11:58AM

we vote in our local school. in a classroom. doubt there is cctv in a classroom. well, hope not anyway:0 will check friday.

Gatling · 22-02-2016 12:01PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you dont believe me have a look on Friday. I vote in my local school and there are CCTV cameras both inside and outside the school, including in the room where voting actually takes place.

Nothing unusual for a school

kneemos · 22-02-2016 12:02PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you dont believe me have a look on Friday. I vote in my local school and there are CCTV cameras both inside and outside the school, including in the room where voting actually takes place.

Who do you think is watching and what is the consequence for voting incorrectly.

The Backwards Man · 22-02-2016 12:05PM

I was in the bank today and there were cameras everywhere. So disgusted was I that I went back out the door and threw my money in the bin

maudgonner · 22-02-2016 12:07PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I was in the bank today and there were cameras everywhere. So disgusted was I that I went back out the door and threw my money in the bin

Which branch?

You know, just so that I can avoid it myself...;)

Badly Drunk Boy · 22-02-2016 12:21PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you dont believe me have a look on Friday. I vote in my local school and there are CCTV cameras both inside and outside the school, including in the room where voting actually takes place.

There aren't any CCTV cameras in classrooms. The schools wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to afford them.

Anyway, looking at your posting history, it's obvious who you're going to vote for...so why does it bother you so much?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 22-02-2016 12:26PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you dont believe me have a look on Friday. I vote in my local school and there are CCTV cameras both inside and outside the school, including in the room where voting actually takes place.

But they're not in the polling booths!

tabby aspreme · 22-02-2016 12:35PM

I imagine cctv would be a nuisance for someone planning voter impersonation , or trying to vote early and often

SafeSurfer · 22-02-2016 12:41PM

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

There aren't any CCTV cameras in classrooms. The schools wouldn't (or shouldn't) be able to afford them.

Anyway, looking at your posting history, it's obvious who you're going to vote for...so why does it bother you so much?

Its obvious who I am going to vote for? Tell me then, who am I going to vote for?
It doesn't bother me. But lazy indifference to the erosion of democratic principles does bother me. I remember when a Garda was on duty all day at polling stations. Why? Because there was a threat to our democracy and we took our democracy seriously.
The secret ballot is compromised by CCTV cameras in the same room where citizens vote.

SafeSurfer · 22-02-2016 12:43PM

Everly Loose Silverfish wrote: »

But they're not in the polling booths!

In the room where I voted in the Marriage equality referendum the polling booth was in the corner of the room. There was no curtain on the booth and in the corner above the booth, facing the open booth was a CCTV camera.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 22-02-2016 12:44PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Its obvious who I am going to vote for? Tell me then, who am I going to vote for?
It doesn't bother me. But lazy indifference to the erosion of democratic principles does bother me. I remember when a Garda was on duty all day at polling stations. Why? Because there was a threat to our democracy and we took our democracy seriously.
The secret ballot is compromised by CCTV cameras in the same room where citizens vote.

Who votes is not secret. Who they vote for is. What danger is there to your secret vote when there are no cameras in the booths? You keep, conveniently, ignoring this fact.

maudgonner · 22-02-2016 12:47PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The secret ballot is compromised by CCTV cameras in the same room where citizens vote.

How? Unless the cameras are pointed directly at the ballot sheet as you mark it, all they will do is record who has voted, not how they voted? That doesn't compromise the secret ballot.

The Backwards Man · 22-02-2016 12:48PM

Enda wasn't far wrong about the whingeing.

SafeSurfer · 22-02-2016 12:50PM

Everly Loose Silverfish wrote: »

Who votes is not secret. Who they vote for is. What danger is there to your secret vote when there are no cameras in the booths? You keep, conveniently, ignoring this fact.

The CCTV camera overlooks the booth. My voting preference is observable.

maudgonner wrote: »

How? Unless the cameras are pointed directly at the ballot sheet as you mark it, all they will do is record who has voted, not how they voted? That doesn't compromise the secret ballot.

The ballot sheet and my marks on it can be observed by the CCTV camera in the corner over the booth. It has the capability of recording both both if I voted or not and who I voted for.

The Backwards Man · 22-02-2016 12:52PM

Can you not pretend you're back at school and put your arm over it so nobody copy's you?

SafeSurfer · 22-02-2016 12:52PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Enda wasn't far wrong about the whingeing.

They will be whinging about spelling standards next.

maudgonner · 22-02-2016 12:53PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The CCTV camera overlooks the booth. My voting preference is observable.

The ballot sheet and my marks on it can be observed by the CCTV camera in the corner over the booth. It has the capability of recording both both if I voted or not and who I voted for.

This story seems to be growing legs, rather conveniently.

If that is the case then why not complain to the returning officer for your district instead of posting on an internet forum about it?

Bio Mech · 22-02-2016 12:54PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

In the room where I voted in the Marriage equality referendum the polling booth was in the corner of the room. There was no curtain on the booth and in the corner above the booth, facing the open booth was a CCTV camera.

If only humans weren't transparent and could use their opaque bodies to block things. Oh well.

The Backwards Man · 22-02-2016 12:55PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

They will be whinging about spelling standards next.

I learned to spell from the dictionary, not from the internet

Hoagy · 22-02-2016 12:56PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you dont believe me have a look on Friday. I vote in my local school and there are CCTV cameras both inside and outside the school, including in the room where voting actually takes place.

Well there shouldn't be.

http://www.dataprotectionschools.ie/en/Data-Protection-Guidelines/CCTV/Use-of-CCTV-Systems-in-Schools/

Generally the Department will fund one outdoor camera and one indoor camera to monitor the front entrance. The school may choose to fund more outdoor cameras themselves if they wish, but any other internal cameras will most probably fall foul of data protection law.

kneemos · 22-02-2016 12:56PM

Everly Loose Silverfish wrote: »

Who votes is not secret. Who they vote for is. What danger is there to your secret vote when there are no cameras in the booths? You keep, conveniently, ignoring this fact.

They already have a list of who voted on the register.
What happens to this as a matter of interest?

maudgonner · 22-02-2016 12:57PM

Bio Mech wrote: »

If only humans weren't transparent and could use their opaque bodies to block things. Oh well.

Ah you see there were strategically placed mirrors on the side of the booth, the floor and the ceiling that bounced the image directly into the cameras lens. Did the OP not mention that?

(May have been a sneaky upskirt shot included too)

Dohnjoe · 22-02-2016 12:58PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The secret ballot is compromised by CCTV cameras in the same room where citizens vote.

No it's not. It's been explained to you several times why there are CCTV cameras. They are not in the booths.

whiskeyman · 22-02-2016 01:02PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The ballot sheet and my marks on it can be observed by the CCTV camera in the corner over the booth. It has the capability of recording both both if I voted or not and who I voted for.

I always find it interesting that such a vast high-tech network of cameras / ID software / staff / IT solutions etc... is funded and operated, yet we still have long waits in hospitals / poor public services etc...

Time we demanded a cut in the surveillance budget...

SafeSurfer · 22-02-2016 01:03PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No it's not. It's been explained to you several times why there are CCTV cameras. They are not in the booths.

Is it inconceivable that a camera located 6 feet from a ballot paper could observe how that ballot has been filled? And could also identify the person who has marked that ballot. Therefore voter anonymity and the secret ballot is compromised. The room in which I vote is not a classroom but a GP/PE room.
Just because the department of education only funds one cameras does not mean a school cannot fund more than one CCTV camera itself.

MarkR · 22-02-2016 01:05PM

I was in a school voting last time, and if I remember rightly, they had windows. And a skylight. Anyone could poke their nose up to the window, or perhaps climb the roof, and with the proper software, could perhaps extrapolate that I picked my nose and wiped it on the pencil in the voting booth.

CCTV cameras in polling stations.

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